Lyr Req: Lakes of Ponchetrain? / Ponchartrain

Subject: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: Peter Skinner
Date: 31 Aug 97 - 03:43 PM

Hello, I am looking for the words to the song Lakes of ponchetrain. I think Gypsy Reel have done it.

Please can anyone help?????

Simon (peter's Son)

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: Helen
Date: 31 Aug 97 - 06:14 PM

Hi Simon

Do a search in the database on the name Ponchartrain (this spelling). A few versions come up.

Helen

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: Peter Skinner
Date: 06 Sep 97 - 05:48 PM

Thanks and I have now found it.

Bye

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: mandola man
Date: 07 Sep 97 - 02:55 PM

Have you heard Marting Simpson's cajun version

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: Helen
Date: 08 Sep 97 - 03:11 AM

I have only heard the Christy Moore version, which I like very much. A Cajun version sounds intriguing.

Helen

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: Laoise
Date: 08 Sep 97 - 04:30 AM

Listen to Paul Brady's version. It's much better than Christy Moore's. I can't remember which Album its on but I think it is one with him and Andy Irvine. The words are slightly different too.

Laoise.

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 12 Sep 97 - 06:53 PM

Hey, Mandola Man, don't I know you? I think I recognise your instrument. If so say hello from me to Mrs Mandola Man.

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: LaMarca
Date: 15 Sep 97 - 05:10 PM

Paul Brady's version is on "Welcome Here Kind Stranger" (a line from Lakes of Ponchartrain). It's the one with the weird painting of him on the album cover that looks like he's snorting cocaine or something. Martin Simpson's version which he jazzed up with a Cajun band is on his "Collection" CD anthology; it's interesting, but I don't think it works very well.

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: mandola man
Date: 24 Sep 97 - 02:26 PM

Hi Alan, nice to hear from you. I have very fond memories of playing in sessions with you and the others at the western suburbs. Regards to all you guys in Sydney.

Thanks for the comment from LaMancha, sorry I spelt Martin wrong above, slip of the finger, but I think the the cajun version works very well, it is not better than any other version, but I like to hear people trying cross-overs of all sorts. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't.

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: GUEST,Leslie
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 04:51 AM

Trying to find the "On the lake of Pontchartrain", I think it is by Trapezoid- i heard the vinyl version in 1981- made a poor casette recording of it- and this song has been haunting me for 24 years.

I just started to research it August 25th, and found out that it is not an irish song, but perhaps an American folk song from Louisina- then a few days later the New Orleans was hit by Katrina and devasted...

well now I have to have this recording

Can anyone direct me??

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 05:09 AM

You'll find an excellent version of Pontchartrain on Hot Vultures Vulturama WEBE9031 here .

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 05:48 AM

I remember hearing a song called "The Banks of the Old Pontchartrain" by Hank Williams in the late 50's/early 60's. Have no idea if it's the same song. Hank Jr. may have recorded a version.

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 06:39 AM

. . . and I'm deeply puzzled why so many people should mistake Pontchartrain (Lakes Of) for an Irish song. You don't (as far as I'm aware) encounter all that many Créoles on the loose alongside Irish loughs . . .

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 07:19 AM

Sam Henry and later, Planxty's fault.

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: Mr Red
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 07:51 AM

Cajun version would be a natural Waltz.

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: Amos
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 09:18 AM

On the Banks of the Old Pontchartrain (Hank Williams) is a different song; it has some imagery in common, but was written in the 20th century.

A

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: Den
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 09:28 AM

Countess, I don't see too many on this thread mistaking, "The lakes of Pontchartrain," for an Irish song. It was probably made most popular by Irish artists. Such as those mentioned above Planxty, Christie Moore and Paul Brady (going by the responses on this thread). I don't believe any of them claimed it either. Not sure where you're coming from with your comments.

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 09:37 AM

Den, may I refer you to Guest: Leslie above who revived the thread and who said that s/he had "found out that it was not an Irish song". It is frequently claimed as such, mainly by those who have had, allegedly, a song called Shores of Erin in their family for "generations" and, moreover, accuse Ewan MacColl of nicking the tune for Shoals of Herring.

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 09:45 AM

And now the authorities are going to pump the dangerously polluted water from New Orleans into the estuary OR Lake Pontchartrain.

eric

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: ard mhacha
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 10:12 AM

So now we are being blamed for stealing The Lakes of Pontchartrain, no, CR, we know it isn`t an Irish song, I do remember Paul Brady singing this song, most likely his singing and arrangment was much better than earlier versions, Irish artists are inclined to do that sort of thing.

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 10:34 AM

Nah, I said there are many who mistake PONTCHARTRAIN for an Irish song. The one you mention possibly is one, for all I know . . .

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: ard mhacha
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 10:52 AM

Well now, The Lakes of Pontchartrain, this is the only version of the song that I know, "It was on a bright May morning I bade New Oreleans adieu, and I took the road to Jackson my fortune to re-new, I Cursed all foreign money no credit could I gain, etc.

Does those words ring a bell CR. and again I say it, not Irish.

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 11:38 AM

It was on the 3rd of February I bid Cairo town adieu
Traveled down the river road my fortune to pursue...

I swung on board of an old boxcar just as the day did dawn,
I rode the rods from sun to sun and then lit down again,
And as the shades of evening fell the low ground I did gain,
And it was there I met that creole girl on the banks of Pontchartrain...

My version of this good song will be on a Folk Legacy CD made from the "On The River" cassette (and a few other songs) I made to sell when I sang on steamboats.

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 11:48 AM

Art Thieme:

I hope you proof read the sleeve artwork carefully and make sure it says PONTCHARTRAIN

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 11:54 AM

Art Thieme: your version of Pontchartrain "will be on a Folk Legacy CD".
Now, that use of the future tense is ambiguous to my ears. Does it mean that if I go out and buy this CD now, it will have Pontchartrain on it? Or does it mean, when the CD comes out, it will have Pntchartrain on it. You may think I am being a bit nitpicking here, but the fact is that I would like a copy of this record, and I want to know if my desire can be fratified right now.
    On the subject of the songs Irishness. OK, in the sense that it had no specially Irish connection before Christy Moore learnt it from Mike Waterson(of Watersons fame): it isnt Irish. On the other hand, since its meteoric rise to an internationally loved and very widely known status can be attributed to Irish performers(Planxty, Brady etc): yes it is Irish. Where a folk song flourishes is surely just as significant as its precise birthplace.

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: Sorcha
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 12:09 PM

Geeze, CR.....un knot yer knickers.

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 12:13 PM

OOOOH Sorcha, watch out. Do not poke lions in the ear with a walking stick.

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: Den
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 12:44 PM

Greg, you make a good point there. There have been threads on this forum debating the origins of this song and I'm not sure if anyone is quite sure of the definitive origin.

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 12:52 PM

Don't be too censorious of spelling variations, Countess Richard. Shakespeare signed his name seven times(that have survived). Each time it's spelt differently. But as a writer, he's spoken of quite highly by a lot of folks.
So how did the Comte de Pontchartrain actually spell his name? (assuming he could write).

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: Sorcha
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 01:35 PM

LOL!

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: GUEST,harpmolly
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 01:39 PM

I just sang this song to a friend of mine last night. We were both touched by how appropriate it is for the current events down South...

"Twas on one bright March morning I bid New Orleans adieu...

I said, 'my bonny Creole girl, me money here's no good,
If it weren't for the alligators I'd sleep out in the wood.'
'You're welcome here, kind stranger, our house it's very plain,
But we never turn a stranger out of the Lakes of Pontchartrain.'"

The themes of hospitality and taking in someone who's lost everything are pretty powerful right now.

Molly

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 01:44 PM

Planxty (and I include Paul Brady, who learnt it from them) aren't wholly to blame for it being thought Irish, Sam Henry included it in Songs of the People, I believe.

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: M.Ted
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 01:48 PM

For reasons I don't care to explain, I was watching the beginning of the notorious TV program, "Dallas", when I realized that the theme song is an ironed out, jet-age version of this very song.

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: Amos
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 03:30 PM

The OTHER song, written in modern times, begins:

"I wandered from Texas to old Lousian'
Over mountains and valleys and plains.
'Til footsore and weary, I rested a while,
By the banks of the old Pontchatrain.

The loveliest maiden that I've I saw,
Passed by, as it started to rain.
And we both took shelter beneath the same tree,
On the banks of the old Pontchartrain."

It is a very different song, just thematically similar.


A

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 10:53 PM

Greg Stephens,

It's not out yet, and it'll be quite a while I suspect. But Sandy tells me it'll happen.

Art

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 10:56 PM

The set in Henry was learned in America. All the relevant details are in previous threads on the subject; there is no need to repeat them here. It will only create confusion.

Subject: Lyr Add: LAKE OF THE PONCHO PLAINS
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 11:11 PM

There's a wonderful variant of the song to be found in 'Singing Cowboy, A Book of Western Songs' collected and edited by Margret Larkin, published by H. Knopf, 1931, reprinted by Oak, 1963. Larkin got the song from Reva Cordell who collected it from an unnamed cowboy. It's called 'Lake of the Poncho Plains' and has its own melody which you can find in the book if you're lucky enough to locate a copy. The words are:

ON THE LAKE OF THE PONCHO PLAINS

It was late one summer's evening when I bid LA adieu
And started my way to Texas which I was forced to do
Through swamps of alligators I started my weary way
Over railroad ties and crossings my weary feet did play

It was getting late one evening when higher ground I gain
It was there I met the Cree girl on the Lake of the Poncho Plains
"Good evening fair damsel. My money is no good.
If it weren't for the alligators I'd sleep out in the wood."

She taken me to her mother's house and treated me quite well
Her raven hair in ringlets around her shoulders fell
I tried to paint her beauty but found it was in vain
Oh how handsome was that Cree girl on the Lake of the Poncho Plains

I begged her then to wed me she said it ne'er could be
She said she had a lover and he was far at sea
She said she had a true lover and true she would remain
'Till he returned to her again on the Lake of the Poncho Plains

Adieu to you my pretty miss I may never see you more
But I'll always remember your kindness that was shown by your cottage door
It's around the flaming circle a cup to my lips I drain
Drink success to the beautiful Cree girl on the Lake of the Poncho Plains


It does seem odd to ride east out of Los Angeles through swamps of allegators. The Mohave Desert isn't noted for its alligator population.

---

Poster is DADGBE

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 11:19 PM

Compte De Louis Phelypeaux Pontchartrain, Comptroller General and Secretary of State for France, ca. 1700. Not only was he literate but he helped revise one of the Academies of France (Inscriptions et Belles Lettres). All of this in previous threads.

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 11:26 PM

Posted here 5 years ago, in thread  Origins: Lakes of Ponchartrain : see links above.

As I suggested, most of what there is to say has been said already. This is a very old thread, recently revived by someone who presumably hadn't bothered to read the others.

If there's genuinely new information to be had, by all means add it; but please don't just repeat what has already been said. That will only make it harder for people who come looking for information in the future to find what they need.

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 12:40 AM

Same tune as The Blarney Roses, isn't it?

Seamus

Subject: RE: Lakes of ponchetrain
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 08:29 PM

There are several tunes used, but, yes; Blarney Roses is certainly a close relative of the (currently) best-known, which was also used for Lily of the West and, earlier, for Caroline of Edinburgh Town. See the other threads for more detailed information.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lakes of Ponchetrain? / Ponchartrain
From: GUEST,Leslie Nolan
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 10:33 AM

OK. Searched for this song again, yesterday, St. Paddy's. I know, I know. Still can't get it out of my mind... 1981! Thirty years ago folks! And years from my old post.

Here is the vinyl that I heard, and put us all in a time warping revery:
        
Trapezoid - Now & Then CD
Trapezoid Discography of CDs
5 stars
Available from Amazon Marketplace

2 New from $29.89
4 Used from $7.02

So much bickery over its origins. Too much energy wasted on who and where. The song is transformative. TRANSFORMATION and beauty.
Now and Then. Now and Again. Again and Again. Beauty is mystical and magical. Amen.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lakes of Ponchetrain? / Ponchartrain
From: PoppaGator
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 01:59 PM

Hmm ~ I'm surprised to find a discussion of this song to which I haven't already added my two-cents-worth. Especially since some of it was written during the immediate post-Katrina period, when I was spending a lot of time on the computer and specifically at Mudcat, while in "exile" (also known as "evacu-cation") How'd I miss this one?

This most certainly *IS* an Irish song, once you realize that the narrator is (in all likelihood) an Irish immigrant to New Orleans who was recruited to labor in the construction of the New Basin Canal, which ran from the shore of Lake Pontchartrain south to center of town, just a few blocks from the Mississippi River waterfront.

New Orleans was the number-one US destination for Irish immigrants during the first wave of famines (1840s-ish), thanks to this gigantic construction project. Unfortunately, so many immigrant laborers on the project died of Yellow Fever that an Irishman's statistical chances of survival were actually better back home (even in the sorely affected rural west) than as an immigrant to Louisiana.

Word of the catastrophic death toll made its way back to Ireland, and significant numbers or Irish immigrants never came to New Orleans again; all the immigration afterwards would be concentrated in the ports of the northeastern US. New arrivals would either stay in the Boston/NYC/Philly area or hop on trains to Chicago and points west.

The fact that the usual tune to which "Lakes of Pontchartrain" is sung is recognizably Irish supports the theory that its lyric comes from the Irish-immigrant experience of this part of the world. The geographical error(s), including the use of the plural for Lake Pontchartrain, are understandable as a stranger's inexact understanding of the harsh environment into which he was suddenly thrust.

Check out Paul Brady's website for some excellent tablature of his arrangement of this song. It's one of only two numbers posted there. (The other is "Arthur McBride.")

Incidentally, I have heard this lyric sung to at least one entirely different melody by bluegrass groups.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lakes of Ponchetrain? / Ponchartrain
From: GUEST,Ian Gill
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 02:14 PM

In the 'Christy Moore Songbook' [ISBN 0 86322 063 0] Christy notes 'I learned this song in 1966 from the singing of Mike Waterson of Hull'. Bill Caddick does a lovely version of it, introduced by: 'There's always one line in this song that makes me smile, see if you can guess which one it is...' He then winks broadly at the line in question. Any guesses ?
Seriously, a great song. I think 'Indian Lass' and 'Little Mohee' are, too.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lakes of Ponchetrain? / Ponchartrain
From: PoppaGator
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 05:24 PM

Ian: My guess is that the line about alligators ~ "if it weren't for the alligators /I'd sleep out in the swamp" ~ is the one that always made Bill smile...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lakes of Ponchetrain? / Ponchartrain
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 12:58 AM

... except, Poppa, that it is the *wood* [to rime with 'good'] that he sez he would sleep out in, isn't it?

Re different melodies: Maggie Holland [once married to Ian Anderson of Hot Vultures, whose version is mentioned above] had a different from the most familiar air for the song, tho sang the same words as Brady et al.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lakes of Ponchetrain? / Ponchartrain
From: GUEST,Ian Gill
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 11:04 AM

Wasn't that tricky, was it Poppa ? Don't think I'd sleep too well in a wood full of alligators, mind.