Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lakes of Ponchartrain - Irish Words
From:
Malcolm Douglas
Date: 12 Jun 02 - 07:49 PM
The text of Ponchartrain is clearly American; it is sung to more than one tune, but the best-known is the one that also carries most (?) versions of Lily of the West. The tune was also widely (and, I think, earlier) used for Caroline of Edinburgh Town, and under that name was often the prescribed tune for topical broadsides issued in 19th century America, so it may reasonably be supposed to have been well-known there by the time of the Civil War, wherever it came from before that. The tune has been found in tradition throughout Britain and Ireland, but if I had to vote for a country of origin for it, I would at present think Scotland most likely. Having said that, these things are often untraceable as to origins, and I am not a tune historian. There's a tendency for arguments to develop here (and elsewhere) when people ask for "Irish words" or "Irish songs"; this is not because of any particular anti-Irish feeling, but rather the result, I think, of a certain weariness when the same misapprehensions are so often repeated. If people want "Irish language" (that is to say, "Irish Gaelic") texts, then they should say so; it is however the case that a lot of people do not understand that Irish, Scots and Gaelic (in whichever of its forms) are not the same thing. It is also the case that only a small minority of people understand any kind of Gaelic; it is therefore appropriate to translate, at least approximately, texts posted in a "common language" forum such as this. I always add translations when posting French texts here, and see no difference in the principle, except that French is more widely understood. It is also the case that, due to the wide recording of songs of varied origins by popular performers such as the Clancy Brothers, the Dubliners, Planxty and so on, many people simply assume that a song is Irish because they have heard it sung in that accent. Since not a few of the most popular songs in the repertoires of such performers were drawn directly from English and Scottish traditional sources, it is a little galling when those equally valid traditions are snubbed as if they did not exist or were of no consequence. From my own point of view it is simply a question of giving credit where it is due, acknowledging one's sources and, above all, telling the truth; regardless of what might at one time or another be fashionable. As to modern translations of English-language songs into Gaelic; this is, as has already been said, by no means a new phenomenon in either Ireland or Scotland, and it bears repeating that Proinsias Ó Maonaigh is considered a fine translator. It is however the case that a great many ill-informed people will, unless the details are spelled out to them, automatically assume that anything in Gaelic must, by definition, be "the original"; we do have to be careful that we do not inadvertently spread misinformation. The Lakes of Ponchartrain as given in the Sam Henry Collection, incidentally, came from Paddy M'Closkey (Carnamenagh, Corkey, Co. Antrim), who learned it from Frank M'Allister (Carnagall, Corkey) around 1905; Frank had learned the song when a woodsman in America.
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