Lyr Req: The Gardener (from The House Band)

Subject: LYR clarification: The Gardener by House Band
From:
Date: 14 Jul 98 - 05:17 PM

I'm supposed to be memorizing this song for a LARP, but I can't quite make out a couple of the lines in two of the verses. And for reference, this is the song that begins

"Red Margaret stood in her father's doorway / Straight as a willow wand / And by there came a gardener bold / With a red rose in his hand, his hand / A red rose in his hand."

The verses that I'm unsure of:

"Your gown shall be sweet-smelling thyme / Your apron selendine / Your petticoat of the chamomile / < / >"

and

"The milk-white snow will be your shirt / That lies your body next / The night-black rain will be your coat / < > at your breast, your breast / < > at your breast."

Thanks, anyone who can help with this!

Slán, Kiwi

Subject: Lyr Add: THE GARDENER (from the House Band)
From: Benjamin Bodhra/nai/
Date: 15 Jul 98 - 08:38 AM

Well howdy Hoady Kiwi

You see you should just ask me first instead of annoying all of the nice people in the forum. Here's the lyrics as printed in the CD Rockall: (and it's even got the chords 'cos I'm to lazy to take them out!!)

THE GARDENER

Proud Margaret stood at her father's doorway
Straight as a willow wand
And by there came a gardener bold
With a red rose in his hand, his hand
With a red rose in his hand.

O you shall have my rose, fair maid
If you'll give your flower to me
And among the flowers in your father's garden
I'll make a gown for thee, for thee
I'll make a gown for thee

Your gown shall be sweet smelling thyme
Your apron celandine
Your petticoat o' the camomile
Come kiss sweetheart and join, and join
Come kiss sweetheart and join

Since you have made a gown for me
Among the summer flowers
So I will make a suit for thee
Among the winter flowers, the flowers
Among the winter flowers

The milk white snow will be your shirt
That lies your body next
And the night black rain will be your coat
With the wind all at your breast, your breast
The wind all at your breast

The horses you shall ride upon
Will be a wintry grey
And every time that you pass by
I'll wish you were away, away
I'll wish you were away

  G        D                                G          D
  Proud Margaret stood at her father's doorway
                     C          D
  Straight as a willow wand
  G     D                       G           C
  And by there came a gardener bold
  D                      C       D
  With a red rose in his hand, his hand
                          C       D
  With a red rose in his hand.

Subject: RE: LYR clarification: The Gardener by House Band
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 16 Jul 98 - 01:46 AM

G'day Kiwi,

I see that this version has slippit a wee bit awa' frae the Scots. Like a lot of music that has regained currency in England since the folk revival, it doesn't rhyme too well with an English pronunciation ... especially 'next' with 'breast', where formerly we had 'neist' and 'breist'.

I just post this as a penance for over-energetically suggesting that the Irish occasionally pinch songs from elsewhere. The Poms certainly did a bit of that in the 50s and 60s.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: LYR clarification: The Gardener by House Band
From: Barbara
Date: 16 Jul 98 - 03:09 AM

Ah, yes, I thought I knew this song as:
Proud Maisrie stands at her faither's duir
As straught's a wi'ow wand
An' sine there cam a gairdner bold
Wi' a red rose i' his hand, his hand
Wi' a red rose i' his hand.
Though I suspect Cuillion could fix this so it was better. And you notice that hand and wand rhyme, too.
Can't remember if I heard it, or it was written out this way.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: LYR clarification: The Gardener by House Band
From: Benjamin Bodhra/nai/
Date: 16 Jul 98 - 03:30 AM

Hmmm,

Some of you Scots may wish to have words with the House Band, as they describe it as "a very old ENGLISH song"

Ah well that's folk!! Benjamin Bodhránaí

Subject: RE: LYR clarification: The Gardener by House Band
From: Kiwi
Date: 16 Jul 98 - 10:26 AM

Bob, If that be the case, how did the Scots have it?

Slán, Kiwi

Subject: RE: LYR clarification: The Gardener by House Band
From: Bruce O.
Date: 16 Jul 98 - 10:36 AM

Child #219. The 2 versions and fragment that Child gave are all Scots. An older English version, late 17th century, is on my website, (Scarce Songs) but is rather different than traditional versions.

Subject: RE: LYR clarification: The Gardener by House Band
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 16 Jul 98 - 06:36 PM

G'day Kiwi,

I know the song as I heard it from Ewan MacColl and he definitely sang a Scots version. This certainly doesn't mean that it was originally Scots. I seem to remember that A.L. Lloyd reasoned that many songs that were English, or had currency across the UK, had been forgotten in England because that was the centre of change, the hub of the Empire and all that guff.

He felt it legitimate to take such songs and sing them as English - even substituting English tunes - and there is some validity to this approach to rebuilding a partly lost tradition. An unfortunate side effect, to which I referred in the original posting, is that the words that survive in (say) Scotland have settled into a Scots rhyme scheme.

Actually, if you look at old English spellings and vocabulary you find that the further back you go, the more it looks like Broad Scots. The language also has changed faster in the London/Oxford/Cambridge triangle than in more traditional areas and it is quite possible that the song is an Old English song best remembered in Scotland. Remember that Child had more luck collecting old English song in the Appalachians than he did back home.

Regards,

Bob Bolton