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Lyr Req: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret

DigiTrad:
BONNIE SUSIE CLELAND
LADY MARGRIE
THE GAIRDNER CHILD


Related threads:
Origins: Bonnie Susie Cleland (44)
Lyr Req: Bonny Suzie Clelland (41)
Tune Req: Bonnie Susie Clelland (18)
Lyr Req: Bonny Susie Clellan? (18) (closed)
Tune Req: Bonnie Susie Cleland -- Different Tune (8)
Lyr Req: The Gardener (from The House Band) (8)
Lyr Req: Bonny Susie Cleland (5)


Richard McD. Bridge 10 Dec 98 - 04:40 AM
Felipa 10 Dec 98 - 10:00 AM
Barbara 10 Dec 98 - 10:09 AM
Felipa 10 Dec 98 - 03:48 PM
Susan of DT 10 Dec 98 - 04:28 PM
Alan of Australia 11 Dec 98 - 11:02 AM
Richard McD. Bridge 12 Dec 98 - 12:29 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 13 Dec 98 - 08:20 PM
Philippa 02 Dec 99 - 12:02 PM
Bruce O. 02 Dec 99 - 04:58 PM
sophocleese 03 Dec 99 - 01:54 PM
Bruce O. 03 Dec 99 - 02:25 PM
toadfrog 27 Mar 01 - 10:15 PM
Malcolm Douglas 27 Mar 01 - 11:30 PM
Stewie 28 Mar 01 - 01:06 AM
Stewie 28 Mar 01 - 01:27 AM
Malcolm Douglas 28 Mar 01 - 11:24 AM
GUEST,DrWord 28 Mar 01 - 04:19 PM
GUEST 25 Mar 04 - 09:04 AM
My guru always said 25 Mar 04 - 12:01 PM
Amos 25 Mar 04 - 12:12 PM
My guru always said 25 Mar 04 - 03:05 PM
GUEST 25 Mar 04 - 05:47 PM
Richard Bridge 17 Nov 04 - 02:36 PM
Richard Bridge 09 Feb 05 - 05:18 PM
GUEST 10 Feb 05 - 05:37 PM
GUEST,Paul Burke 11 Feb 05 - 07:52 AM
Richard Bridge 13 Feb 05 - 05:12 PM
Malcolm Douglas 13 Feb 05 - 06:15 PM
Richard Bridge 13 Feb 05 - 06:32 PM
Joe Offer 14 Jun 21 - 06:22 PM
Felipa 15 Jun 21 - 12:53 PM
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Subject: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: Richard McD. Bridge
Date: 10 Dec 98 - 04:40 AM

My wife has asked me to try to trace the words to a song of which she remembers the tune. She states it was called "Proud Maisrie" and thinks it may be a US version of "Lady Margaret". I think I remember talk of another song called Bonny Maisrie, aand I don't think it's that one but it might be. So words of either would be very helpful. And yes, I have done a digitrad search for "Maisrie" and I found only "The Gairdner Child" which I am sure (which means I'm not) is different. Can anyone out there help please?


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Subject: RE: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: Felipa
Date: 10 Dec 98 - 10:00 AM

The Gairdner Child - "proud Maisrie stands at her bower door, as straight as a willow wand, and syne there cam' a gardener child..." is the song that came to my mind as soon as I saw your query. I heard it on a Ewan MacColl recording. So do try to double check whether that's the tune. There is a faint resemblance to Lady Margaret (see versions in the DT) and if you have the facilities you can hear a tune for the DT Gairdner Child --the MacColl song wasn't 'a US version' however. If it's not what you want, well, happy hunting...


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Subject: RE: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: Barbara
Date: 10 Dec 98 - 10:09 AM

Oh ye of little faith, Felipa.
The words to the Gairdner Child are right in there with the tune. I put maisrie in the search box, and there it was.
Blessings,
Barbara


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Subject: RE: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: Felipa
Date: 10 Dec 98 - 03:48 PM

I don't understand, Barbara; you didn't understand me or you didn't read the first message. Richard said he found the Gairdner Child when he did a search for Maisrie, but he didn't think it was the song he wanted. He wasn't sure, so I suggested he double check and reminded him that he could listen to the tune on the DT


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Subject: RE: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: Susan of DT
Date: 10 Dec 98 - 04:28 PM

If you can give us a few words or a plot line, we may be able to help you. A search for Margaret yields 54 hits, heavy in Maragaret MacArthur and Margaret Christl, but a search for [lady margaret] yields 8 or 9 you can check out.


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Subject: RE: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 11 Dec 98 - 11:02 AM

G'day,
Some of the above suggests Child #219 - "The Gardener / Gairdner Child", but if you think not, do a search for #45, #65 or #74.

Let us know the results.

Cheers,
Alan


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Subject: RE: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: Richard McD. Bridge
Date: 12 Dec 98 - 12:29 PM

Many thanks to all: yes it turned out to be the Gairdner Child all along, despite my good trouble and strife (wife, for the benefit of those who can't speak cockney rhymer) having been clear the song was called "Proud Maisrie". Now that reminds me of a verse from "The Cobbler Song": -

"Oh my wife she is bumpy she is lumpy/My wife she is like an old sack/And no matter how badly I beat her/Her mouth it goes clickety clack."

But you should hear what she says about me!


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Subject: RE: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 13 Dec 98 - 08:20 PM

There is Lady Maisry, sung by Chris Foster.


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Subject: Lyr Add: PROUD MAISIE (Walter Scott)
From: Philippa
Date: 02 Dec 99 - 12:02 PM

I haven't heard this Walter Scott poem (song?) sung, but if the song about the Gardener isn't what you seek, perhaps Proud Maisie is

Proud Maisie

Proud Maisie is in the wood,
Walking so early;
Sweet Robin sits on the bush,
Singing so rarely.

'Tell me, thou bonny bird,
When shall I marry me?'
'When six braw gentlemen
Kirkward shall carry ye.'

'Who makes the bridal bed,
Birdie, say truly?'
'The grey-headed sexton
That delves the grave duly.

'The glow-worm o'er grave and stone
Shall light thee steady,
The owl from the steeple sing,
"Welcome , proud lady".'

Walter Scott (1771-1832)
source: Walter Scott "Poetical Works", 1904; John MacQueen and Tom Scott, compilers, "The Oxford Book of Scottish Verse", London: Oxford University Press, 1975 (first edition 1966)


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Subject: RE: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: Bruce O.
Date: 02 Dec 99 - 04:58 PM

"Lady Maisry" is Child #65, of which "Bonny Susie Cleland" (see old thread and DT) is a variant. Longer than the text above is one in Scott's MSS, noted by Child, V, p. 222 to be little different the Child's A text.
The earliet version of "The Gardener Lad" is in Scarce Songs 1 on my website.
The extra verse quoted by Richard McD. above is from "Dick Darby the Cobbler" (and several other titles) which is in DT, and available on the Bodley Ballads website.


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Subject: RE: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: sophocleese
Date: 03 Dec 99 - 01:54 PM

Philippa when I saw the name for this thread I thought it might be about that poem. I wrote a tune to it last year but I've always wondered if there was already one in existence. Has anyone heard it sung before?


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Subject: RE: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: Bruce O.
Date: 03 Dec 99 - 02:25 PM

It's from Scott's 'The Heart of Midlothian', 1818, where no tune is specified. Scott himself could not note tunes, but this is Scott's revised and condensed song and doesn't qualify as a version of a Child ballad (like his Jock of Hazeldeen). There are 13 tunes for various versions of Child #65 in Bronson's 'The Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads'.


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Subject: RE: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: toadfrog
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 10:15 PM

Is there or is there not a ballad called Gardener (or "gairtner" child? Ewan McColl sang one in Berkeley in 1972. It sounded more like something Walter Scott might compose than like a traditional ballad. So far as I can make out it has no even arguable resemblance to "Bonny Susy Cleland," which is not about unrequited love.


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Subject: RE: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 11:30 PM

The Gairdner Child  is a version of The Gardener, which Professor Child assigned his number #219.  He printed three texts, one of which was a fragment.  No indication is given in the DT file as to Ewan MacColl's source, assuming that it is the text he used, nor as to where the two tunes given came from, or which one he used.  There is another text in this thread:  clarification: The Gardener

People do get confused by the Lady Maisry business; this is a common alternative title for several quite different songs, including Bonnie Susie Cleland, The Maid Freed From The Gallows and Mary Hamilton.  It is often a mistake, particularly when dealing with traditional song, to assume that a shared title necessarily implies any other connection.  As Bruce pointed out above (over a year ago), Lady Maisry is most usually Bonnie Susie Cleland (Child's number #65).  He wasn't suggesting any connection with The Gardener; quite the opposite, in fact.

Malcolm


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE GAIRDENER CHYLDE (from MacColl)
From: Stewie
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 01:06 AM

Malcolm,

In his notes to 'Wanton Muse' Argo LP ZDA 85, MacColl said his source for 'The Gairdener Chylde' was from his mother, with verses collated from Greig's 'Last Leaves'. He noted also that the song's first appearance in print wa 'in a rather corrupt form in an Edinburgh chapbook dated 1776. I think the text in the DT differs from MacColl's text in enough places to warrant posting his text. It also has an additional verse.


THE GAIRDENER CHYLDE

Proud Maisrie stands at her faither's door
As straucht's a willow wand
And syne there cam' a gairdener chylde
Wi' a red rose in his hand, his hand
Wi' a red rose in his hand

Oh ye sall hae my rose quo' he
Gin ye'll gie your floo'er to me
And amang the floo'ers o' your faither's yaird
I'll mak' a goon for thee, for thee
I'll mak' a goon for thee

The lily white shall be your smock
Becomes your body neist
And the marigowd shall be your stays
Wi' a red rose at your breist, your breist
Wi' a red rose at your breist

Your goon shall be the smelling thyme
And your petticoat camowine
And your apron o' the soladene
So kiss sweetheart and join, and join
So kiss sweetheart and join

Your gloves shall be the clover floo'er
That springs in yonder wan
And I'll sew them wi' the blue blevets
That graws amang the lawn, the lawn
That graws amang the lawn

Your feet I'll shoe wi' yon red rue
That graws in the gairden fine
And I'll line them wi' the tapetan
So join your love wi' mine, wi' mine
So join your love wi' mine

Since ye hae made a goon for me
Amang the simmer floo'ers
Sae I will make a suit for thee
Amang the winter shoo'ers, the shoo'ers
Amang the winter shoo'ers

The milk-white snaw shall be your sark
And lie your body neist
And the mirk-black rain shall be your coat
Wi' a wind-gale at your breist, your breist
Wi' a wind-gale at your breist

The horse that ye shall ride upon
Shall be the winter snell
And I'll bridle him wi' some Nor'land blasts
And some sharp shoo'ers o' hail, o' hail
And some sharp shoo'ers o' hail

The bonnet that's be upon your heid
Shall be the southren grey
And every time that ye pass by
I'll wish ye were away, away
I'll wish ye were away

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: Stewie
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 01:27 AM

The tune that MacColl used is the second one on the DT page - the 'click here to play' with 'SOF' under it.

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 11:24 AM

Thanks, Stewie.  The chapbook that MacColl referred to, incidentally, was Five Excellent New Songs, printed and sold by William Forrest, at the head of the Cowgate, Edinburgh, 1766.  Baring Gould told Child about it, and it appears in the Additions and Corrections in vol.5 of ESPB, which I missed last night, along with a traditional English version, Dead Maid's Land, noted by Baring Gould from Joseph Haddon of Holcombe Burnell (edited version, with tune, in Songs of the West), and a Scottish text from Motherwell's MS, It's Braw Sailing Here.

Malcolm


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Subject: RE: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: GUEST,DrWord
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 04:19 PM

In another lifetime [the mid-60s] I set Scott's poem to music. One of two or three tunes I've ever written. & Sophocleese, I haven't until today heard of an air for the poem. :) Dennis


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Subject: RE: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 09:04 AM

GUEST,DrWord wrote on 28 Mar 01:
> In another lifetime [the mid-60s] I set Scott's poem ["proud Maisie"] to music.
> One of two or three tunes I've ever written. & Sophocleese, I haven't until today
> heard of an air for the poem. :)

There was one written in Scott's lifetime, by George Linley. It works, in a rather
Germanic sort of way. It's on my "Embro, Embro" CD-ROM.

Jack Campin


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE GARDENER (from June Tabor)
From: My guru always said
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 12:01 PM

These are the words I've taken from June Tabor's version of The Gardener - not sure who rewrote it though. The last pair of each verse are repeated. Lovely version...


Proud Maisry stands in her bower door,
As straight as the willow wand
And by and comes a gardener lad,
With a red rose in his hand

It's you shall have my rose fair maid,
If you'll give your flower to me
From among the flowers in my garden,
I'll shape a gown for thee

The lily white shall be your smock,
Becomes your body best
The gillyflower to be your quill,
And a primrose at your breast

Your gown shall be the scented thyme,
Your petticoat camovine
Your apron of the salads neat,
That taste both sweet and fine

Since you have shaped a gown for me,
Among the summer flowers
It's I'll repay you back again,
Amidst the winter showers

New fallen snow shall be your shirt,
And lie your body next
The mirk-black rain shall be your coat,
And a wind gale at your breast

The steed that you shall ride upon,
Shall be the weather grey
And when you come into my sight,
I'll wish you were away


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Subject: RE: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: Amos
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 12:12 PM

Dang!! And he was doing so well, too! :>)

A


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Subject: RE: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: My guru always said
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 03:05 PM

As chat-up lines go, they weren't bad, were they? :-)


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Subject: RE: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 05:47 PM

Scotts poem was set to music in "Songs of the North" (JB Cramer and Co.) by Malcolm Lawson.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 02:36 PM

My wife (who set me off on this voyage of discovery) did re-start singing this song again - the Mudcat words, and the second mudcat tune - but I was always too slow to pick up the chords. Unfortunately she came in second place in an argument with the medical profession in May 2003, so can anyone kindly give me the chords to the second mudcat tune? I'd like to be able to play and sing it at the second anniversary of her wake, next May.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Feb 05 - 05:18 PM

Well, May is nearly here: can anyone direct me to worms and dots (MacColl version), or a more accessible recording and time signature for the melody?

Has anyone got a copy of the MacColl recording? If they would make me a copy (for research and private study, naturally, and therefore not a copyright infringment) I would be very glad to hear.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 05:37 PM

I sing a ballad called Lady Maisry that was collected in Beaminster in England from a singer called Sam Gregory (I think!) It starts
The young men of the North country
Have all wooing gone
To win the love of Lady Maisry
But of them she would have none

It is a fantastic ballad with a driving tune that carries the story along

I can supply more info if anyone is interested

Sue vG


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Marg
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 11 Feb 05 - 07:52 AM

" Your feet I'll shoe wi' yon red rue
That graws in the gairden fine
And I'll line them wi' the tapetan"

Did anyone ever find out what 'tapetan' is? (It's NOT tappit-hen, we've been there)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 05:12 PM

Many thanks to the self effacing 'catter who PMd me and has since emailed me both the MacColl recording and the Redpath. I have been working on it and am well on my way to an arrangement.

The MacColl and Redpath versions are almost identical, so clearly one learned from the other or they had a common source. As I remember Jacqui's version although plainly the same tune the timing differed, and just a couple of details (maybe) of the melody. I wonder if this is just the folk process. There were other members of Jacqui's band(s) in the 60s who were much into the research, so maybe, just maybe, there was another source or perhaps the timing got altered when someone got dots collection notes from C# Ho.

Does anyone old enough to remember the era know if MacColl or Redpath researched the song at C#Ho or did it come from somewhere else?   Pest, I was just to young to know first hand and in any event had no interest in trad folk then...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 06:15 PM

For the original publication of MacColl's The Gardener, see The Singing Island, 1960, 33. The tune came from Ewan's mother (there called Betsy Henry); her text had evidently been fragmentary, and was bulked out from material collected by Gavin Greig (see Stewie's post earlier in this thread).

I haven't heard Jean Redpath's rendition. If the tune is the same as MacColl's, then he would be her source.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 06:32 PM

Yes, I should have cross-referred to make myself clear. The interesting questions thus become: -

1. Does Tabor differ?
2. What are the sources of difference (a) Tabor and (b) Jacqui Walker/The Chapmen (or associated investigators) (which I only have vaguely in my head?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Jun 21 - 06:22 PM

Anne Coleman sang "Proud Maisrie" to the melody of "Scarborough Fair" at the Mudcat Worldwide Singaround today. It worked very well.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Proud Maisrie/Bonny Maisrie/Lady Margaret
From: Felipa
Date: 15 Jun 21 - 12:53 PM

I like the tune Ewan MacColl sang, and I can't think of other songs to that air.


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