Encouraging novice musicians - format?

Subject: Encouraging novice musicians - format?
From: wilco
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 10:21 AM

What is the best "organized" way to encourage novice, shy musicians to play in groups, participate, jam, etc.
    I play in with several different groups of people, and the one that I enjoy the most is full of people who never played in a group before. Thay all had talent that they never used (or never had the resources to develop), an they are FUN to be around. Its all new to them!
    How do you get all of these people "out of the closet," where they hav been playing alone at home? I'm not too interested in those accomplished, experienced musicians; these are the shy ones.
    We have two local folk groups, one of which hasn't done anything in many years.

Subject: RE: Encouraging novice musicians - format?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 10:42 AM

There was a recent thread on "how to organize a slow jam" that may be of some help. I don't remember the exact title, but I'll look around and see if I can find it.

One key perhaps is that someone with an interest in these novice players has to "take charge" and get something going that excludes intimidating better players. The "slow jam" meeting will sometimes bring them out. It is (usually) very difficult to incorporate a "novice friendly" gimmick into a regular session that will effectively get them to participate without "offending" at least some of the more accomplished players.

If you have specific individuals that you want to encourage, a "home practice" session - by personal invitation to not more than a half-dozen at a time might work, if you let them know in advance that it's a real "learning session."

Our local area "Dulcimer Alliance" has been holding monthly "slow jams" for several years, with pretty much the same participants. I think they need to schedule a field trip to get some of their people to mix with some better players, but there has been resistance to that on the part of some who are determined to remain "novice" forever.

John

Subject: RE: Encouraging novice musicians - format?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 11:18 AM

The best way to learn, it seems to me, is to sit in on the edge of a session where people aren't too worried about anything but having a good time, and play quietly until you've picked up what's going on. For someone who has a fair basic understanding of their instrument, but isn't used to playing with others, it is possible to have a very steep learning curve in that situation. One evening can make an amazing difference.

I suppose the other way is where a bunch of people who are relative novices play together and learn together in a workshop setting, with a couple of more experienced people to encourage and guide them.

The slow jam idea makes sense, I suppose, meaning one where the experienced players are conscious of encouraging and nurturing the new chums - except that I jib at the assumption that slow is easy, and that the more competent you get, the faster you play. In truth it can even be the other way round.

Subject: RE: Encouraging novice musicians - format?
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 12:10 PM

Wilco48 - you've described the same feelings I have about a group I play with once a week. I finally realized you just don't get diamonds from coal overnight. They need to pay their dues by walking down that long path like we all did, the "process" is part of the process.

Playing together as a group and having the experienced players set a good example while having fun is the best thing you can do. Those who want to improve will pay attention, those who are determined to stay novices forever will do just that, or drop out.

Subject: RE: Encouraging novice musicians - format?
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 02:37 PM

I'm going to an 'absolute beginners' day at Folkworks in April. Friends went last year and had a great time. Are there any local opportunities for workshops? Whitby festival has plenty of beginners workshops which are well attended.Don't know where you are based.

Subject: RE: Encouraging novice musicians - format?
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 03:14 PM

I play separately with several people who are fairly new at it. I started playing with one very shy mandolin player who had been coming to my Friday night jams after he called me one day and said, Did you mean it when you said to give you a call if I want to get better? I said, Yes, indeed.

We've been playing together now for almost two years- and he's doing breaks and leads in the group now.

Another current one, a guitar player, is a good reader (which I'm not) but wanted to train her ear. We've been playing together now for about 4 months, and she also is doing leads and breaks in the weekly jam, with no paper in sight.

I took my cue from generous people over the years whose main tenet is to get as many people as possible playing. Meeting with a group and also playing one to one on the side is an excellent way to get comfortable. The most typical outcome is that they discover that they can trust their ear. Besides, it's a heck of a lot of fun.

Subject: RE: Encouraging novice musicians - format?
From: Frankham
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 07:15 PM

The "slow jam" can work but it probably should be in a smaller group. The most important thing a musician can learn is how to function in a group. It has been my experience that many accomplished soloists don't function well in a jam. Here are my suggestions.

1. Encourage the new person to memorize songs, chords and lyrics, and not rely on printed material as soon as possible.
2. Encourage the new person to listen closely to the musical dynamic taking place in the gathering and contribute simply. Most people in a jam session who have been playing a while tend to overplay as well.
3. Keep the focus. If there is someone taking a lead, that's where it should be.
4. Remind the group that if they accomodate new people by playing a little simpler and sometimes softer, they will be rewarded by musical values.
5. Keep the "egos" at bay. They belong on a solo stage not in a group that's trying to make music.
6. Encourage participation by suspending all criticism and judgement of them.
7. Encourage them to take the lead in the group occasionally by offering a song that they have learned (by heart) or making a suggestion as to what song should be played.
8. Encourage them to get together with other people outside of the jam session to work up numbers or to just hang out and pick.
9. For those who have a proficiency on a particular instrument, they might try playing a new instrument which puts them on a beginning level. This way they not only have more empathy for the beginners but will develop a new skill along with them. (I have been playing bass in some of the classes I teach).
10. Don't try to be too ambitious with song material. Stick to the tunes that have fewer chords and lend themselves to a group sing.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Encouraging novice musicians - format?
From: Gloredhel
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 07:55 PM

Anyone want to come to Spokane and encourage me? Seriously, I'm pretty good on my own, but have no experience playing with other musicians. I'm too intimidated to drag myself or my harp to sessions because I don't have many songs memorized and don't know how to accompany tunes. I'm ok at figuring out the chord progressions of simple pieces, but have a difficult time determining what key it's in.

I've been to three sessions with my harp, and I've sat myself down in a corner where it would be difficult for the other players to hear me so that I could sort of experiment. Unfortunately, this also means I couldn't hear what they were saying when they all decided what the tune was and what key they'd play it in....

Subject: RE: Encouraging novice musicians - format?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 08:22 PM

"...suspending all criticism and judgement ..."

Apart from tuning.

Subject: RE: Encouraging novice musicians - format?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 09:14 PM

Why "encourage them" ? ? ? ? ?

Let them sit and watch and mellow for a few years....perhaps, later their tunes might be ripe for listening.

Sincerely,

Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Encouraging novice musicians - format?
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 21 Feb 03 - 05:46 AM

Geez, Gargoyle, I hope I don't stumble into one of your sessions! Sit and watch for a FEW YEARS? Thank goodness our jam group doesn't feel that way; I would have missed a lot of fun the last three or four years while I "sat and watched."

As the complete amateur in our group, I can tell you that a desire to learn to play better and the patience of the musicians you play with will make a big difference in your skills. I've loved music since I was small, but the only thing I had ever played was a piano--not an easy thing to lug to a session at someone else's place. Right up there with the double bass, in fact. With the encouragment of a friend at Winfield and the woodworking skills of Mr. John, I acquired a mountain dulcimer, then a bunch of books, then the chance to jam weekly with an "old country songs" group.

I still don't take breaks or leads except very rarely when I know the song well, but I sure have a lot of fun in the background. And I think I've made a lot of improvement out of sheer self-defense. Our guys seldom name the key and most times don't bother with the name of the song, either, so I've learned to watch the guitar players for the chords and figure out where we are that way. And that's fun too!

So give your beginners a chance, whatever form your session takes. They really aren't there to be obnoxious. Most of them are there for the love of the music and to feel like they contribute to the mix.

IMHO.

Lin in Kansas

Subject: RE: Encouraging novice musicians - format?
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 21 Feb 03 - 06:01 AM

The Acoustic Workshop in the Sun Inn Beverley was set up exactly for the purpose of teaching and learning off each other in a relaxed atmosphere - we get a mix of experienced and novice performers (and some of the experienced ones are trying out new instruments in the workshop so they are novices again).

Alternate Tuesday evenings from 8pm ish - the next one is Tuesday March 4th

Roger

Subject: RE: Encouraging novice musicians - format?
From: Marje
Date: 21 Feb 03 - 08:50 AM

A good session, IMO,is one that can accommodate novices and not make them feel left out. I like to think I give new people all the encouragment they need, and if someone who's been sitting watching for an hour gets out a whistle and tentatively joins in a tune, I think "Yay! At last!". My sticking point is if they want to play from written music and be told in advance which tunes are going to come up - it just doesn't work that way, and they're going to have to re-learn their approach. Written music is fine for learning at home, but it doesn't really work at sessions.

I agree with McGrath that slower doesn't necessarily mean easier. When I practise on my own I may slow down certain bits, or stop and repeat them, but doing a whole tune slowly has problems of its own. I find I need to get the pattern of the whole tune in my head, and that's more difficult of it's slowed down. Also, the techniques for playing are different. When you play slowly, you can't phrase things the same way because you run out of bellows, or breath, or bow or whatever it is that makes your notes last longer.

I don't understand how anyone expects people to become competent by just listening, or practising alone. How I've learnt most is by playing alongside others who are better than me. From what I've seen, most confident musicians who've learnt like this are happy to let others learn from them, and seeing this happen is one of the joys of this type of music-making.

Subject: RE: Encouraging novice musicians - format?
From: GUEST,Mary V.
Date: 21 Feb 03 - 09:38 AM

I so agree with most of the comments on this discussion.
I wanted to play so bad it hurt...and someone encouraged me
to come and sit so I could see there fingers and I knew when
to do the chord changes. I learned so much from this person, now
I am the one who has learned to encourage others to watch my hands.
No pressure, just lots of practice practice, and more practice
and all of a sudden, the confidence comes and I was in a group.
I agree, memorizing even a few songs to start with helps , alot.
I've been in the groups where the really really good players won't
give any new player a chance.
Its okay...everyone has to be themselves......
The really really good players ( with no patience )
makes me strive to
be able to play like them...
but also strive to always remember I also was a beginner....


so its wonderful to be an encourager.
Many great musicians are shy...
and laid back but watch what happens when
the music starts and their fingers start going.
Thats all from me, Mary V.

Subject: RE: Encouraging novice musicians - format?
From: MMario
Date: 21 Feb 03 - 09:52 AM

Being a non-instumentalist this conversation is a bit arcane for me; but I've sat in on a number of sessions with mixed skill levels amongst the players and the whole process fascinates me.

As a singer, I find it difficult, because I sing so often alone and unaccompianied, my biggest problem when singing with instruments is to know when to begin!!!!

At Fortunato's the other night I sang "Mist Covered Mountains" and someone mentioned I should have allowed a couple of instrumental breaks between verses. I have to admit, it never occurred to me (sorry - I'm not used to being in a situation where it would be POSSIBLE) I regret that I didn't because I would have loved to have heard it on the harp that was nearby! I have to admit I really enjoyed hearing people join in on the chorus as well. But thinking it over; I am almost positive I would have bobbled coming back into the next verse.

Subject: RE: Encouraging novice musicians - format?
From: MMario
Date: 21 Feb 03 - 09:53 AM

My point being - that's a skill I can't practice alone! it HAS to be developed with others.