BS: What is Anti-Semitism?

Subject: RE: BS: What is Anti-Semitism?
From: GUEST,Dreaded Guest
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 03:58 PM

I'd do some more dictionary searches later, but sure...everything's been blurred, in history and dictionaries and word-of-mouth. Anti-Jew = racist. And that's ridiculous. Even if you ARE born into a Jewish family, when you reach 15 or so you can make a choice. If you continue with the religion, it's no longer a matter of birth...you've CHOSEN to believe the stuff.

I couldn't find a Jew on a full tank of gas where I live, and I was raised to not discuss 'religion and politics'. Lots of talk about the weather, but not much else. And this is the kind of thing it leads to...a religion being equated with a race in a country passing laws against racial crimes. Come on...that's just not legitimate.

Jews have to answer for their beliefs just like everyone else, and hiding behind a 'racial' label is phony. Or so it seems.

And Raedwulf's observation about the Holocaust seems very pertinent. Maybe the over-sensitivity to 'anti-semitism' is an outgrowth of the relatively recent mistreatment of Jews in Germany. But then Arabs are semites according to the dictionary, so why are Americans beating them to death at Guantanamo?

You can't ride two horses with one ass (Woody Allen line...a Jew), and what applies to one applies to all. I just get distressed when my first Amendment is violated on a bogus pretext. If I want to criticize a Jew, I should be able to without being labelled anti-semite.

And I'll get back to that apocalyptic stuff. It's there in abundance if you look around. Man o man is it there.

Subject: RE: BS: What is Anti-Semitism?
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 03:47 PM

Go to the same site and type in "anti-semite."

Subject: RE: BS: What is Anti-Semitism?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 03:46 PM

DG - One error: Judaism is not a proselytising faith. If you are a Judaist, you are almost certainly genetically Jewish. The Jews have never sought converts!

Subject: RE: BS: What is Anti-Semitism?
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 03:45 PM

LOL - Please post the names as you learn them, Amos. Sounds like a BIG job so you might as well share the largesse.

Subject: RE: BS: What is Anti-Semitism?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 03:42 PM

The short & simple answer, DG (what ever happened to the doomsaying, BTW? The Bush concentration camps, the self-inflicted 'terrorist' incidents, et al? They never occured?! Oh dear...), is that 'Semite' & 'Jew' have become synonymous.

Yes, Semite covers a far larger racial & genetic grouping than merely Jews, but the popular perception (which media everywhere do nothing to dispel) is that Semitic = Jewish.

The biggest obstacle to any redefinition or criticism is, of course, Nazism & the Holocaust. I've always found it rather ironic that the hotbed of instability, hatred & violence for the last 40 years or so has been the Mid-East, where most of the racial groupings are Semitic! But they've got a 5000 year history of not getting on, & humanity seems to to be still stuck at a 5 year old mentality with regard to social development. On the visible evidence, Israel remains one of the most right-wing fascist states in the world, & has been for several decades.

I can only surmise that this is another piece of evidence that god likes a laugh as much as anyone else! The Mid-East would get a lot less complicated if Mr "I hate Tyranny, Terrorism & Oppression" Bush would withdraw support from Israel. There'd be a whole lot less 'occupied territories', & a whole lot less Intifada if he did. I don't expect it to happen (& no, it wouldn't solve all the problems if it did, but Bloody Hell! would it pull the rug out from underneath the militant Arab/Islamists if it did! Sadly Dubya hasn't the brains or balls to make it happen, but I can wish...).

Subject: RE: BS: What is Anti-Semitism?
From: GUEST,Dreaded Guest
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 03:42 PM

Well, if you go HERE and type in 'semite', you get the definition I quoted. And my point is, a semite is someone from a particular geographic region of the world. A Jew is someone who takes up a religion after being born ANYWHERE in the world. So, how does criticizing a Jew make you an 'anti-semite'? Sure our dictionaries have been warped to blur the label into a very, very bad thing, but criticizing a Jew does not make you a racist any more than criticizing a Baptist or Catholic does.

THAT is my problem with the label, I just realized. 'Anti-Semite' has come to mean 'racist', and that's nonsense. Or so I think. Once again I beg for enlightenment.

And GWBush has already praised Santorum as being 'inclusive' for propsing this.

Subject: RE: BS: What is Anti-Semitism?
From: Amos
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 03:34 PM

Well, there ya go. My apologies to the world at large -- I should have known that, and I didn't. The things you learn on the Cat!    I thought it was some wise guy on the Net drumming up a clever-sounding website. I think I need a sabbatical, during which I will assiduously learn all the names of regional group identities between Reykjavik and Nome, proceeding easterly.



A

Subject: RE: BS: What is Anti-Semitism?
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 03:32 PM

I agree that if there is a US law passed prohibiting criticism of Israel and/or its policies, a law that affected funding, that would be cause for great concern. Such a ban would be illegal and immoral and un-American.

However, note that the article says that Santorum is PLANNING to propose such a law. (Actually, the article is less than convincing.) Let's wait.

Subject: RE: BS: What is Anti-Semitism?
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 03:30 PM

According to Webster: antisemitic: 1. having or showing prejudice against Jews; 2. discriminating against or persecuting Jews; 3. of or caused by such prejudice of hostility. Jew: 1. member of the tribe or kingdom of Judah; 2. a person desended, or regarded as descended, from the ancient Hebrews of biblical times; 3. a person whose religion is Judaism.

There is nothing antisemitic about criticising Israel. Criticism is different from discrimination. Besides, Israel has citizens who are practicing Moslems, practicing Christians (of many different sects) and individuals who practice no religion at all. Antisemites historically haven't cared whether or not their targets practiced any religion at all; a significant number of those "Jews" who were murdered by the Nazis were practicing Christians whose crime was having one Jewish grandparent.

I doubt if the article you linked to has any more credibility than others you have shared with us.

Subject: RE: BS: What is Anti-Semitism?
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 03:28 PM

Balochistan is a region of Pakistan, Amos.

Subject: RE: BS: What is Anti-Semitism?
From: Amos
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 03:26 PM

I doubt there is any real substance to the DG's fear here -- I notice the "Balochistan Post" did not actually cite the porposal being discussed. And I suspect that the reason this is so is that the actual language of the proposal is probably less inimical than the Balochistannites -- whoever the hell they are -- would have us believe.

I'm not even going to start on why someone would publish something named like that.... it sounds like a make-believe country to me.

A

Subject: RE: BS: What is Anti-Semitism?
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 03:04 PM

One of the problems with your reasoning, DG, is that it assumes that all Jews support the extremist, right-wing government in Israel. That is most certainly not the case. Any legislation that curbs free speech with regard to criticizing Israel on college campuses in the US, also curbs the right to free speech for Jews on college campuses in the US who want to criticize the government of Israel.

Ironic, isn't it, that the US waged a first strike war against Iraq so that the Iraqi people could have freedom of speech, while we, here in the US, are having that same right taken away from us.

Subject: BS: What is Anti-Semitism?
From: GUEST,Dreaded Guest
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 02:53 PM

WASHINGTON: A new law being proposed by Republican senators will serve prohibit criticism of Israel on American college campuses....

Illegal Action?

Maybe someone here can help me on this. It's something I've wondered about for a while. If you criticize a Jew, does that make you an anti-semite? Seriously. I think I've missed something in my education.

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines Semite as:
a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs
b : a descendant of these peoples

So, my question would be, how does criticizing a Jew make you an anti-semite? The definition in the dictionary refers to genetic characteristics...people who could be genetically traced back to ancestors from southwestern Asia. But Sammy Davis Jr. was a Jew. I believe Whoopie Goldberg is a Jew. Wouldn't they be classified as African-American?

Judaism is a BELIEF system, not a genetic characteristic. And sure it's bad to pass judgement on folks because of their condition of birth (skin color, etc.), but what you choose to BELIEVE comes to you voluntarily after you are born, and you need to ANSWER for the actions you perform based on your belief system. So if I want to claim Jews are bad because they did this or that, don't I have the right to?

Many people feel free to pass judgement on fundamentalist Christians (individually and as a group), so if we criticize ONE belief system in the land of free speech and are allowed to do so, how can our laws be warped to protect another belief system?

And I guess that's the crux of my problem in sorting this out. Judaism is a VOLUNTARY BELIEF SYSTEM. You are not born a Jew, so if I were Buddhist and a Jew insulted me and I kicked his ass (fundamentalist Buddhist), how could that whiner expect special treatement under the law? And why would I be accused of hating a whole genetic group of people because of the thoughts someone carries around in his head?

I know the article cited above refers to criticism of Israel, but we have been so brainwashed on the subject of anti-semitism, I think it's time for me to work this out. I don't understand how a voluntary belief system has been merged in the public mind so successfully that now, when you criticize 'a jew', you are automatically assumed to be criticizing millions of others who are of the same 'race'. Judaism is NOT a race. It is a religion voluntarily taken up by people after they are born.

I personally think Judaism is just another religious control system set up in the dim past to take advantage of us, so in saying that, did I just commit an act of anti-semitism? If so, someone will have to tell me why.