Greensleeves ... Whence the name?

Subject: RE: GREENSLEEVES ... Whence the name?
From: Gloredhel
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 07:46 PM

I reather like leeneia's suggestion about the origins of the tune. Everyone knows all the good stuff was really done by the Irish anyway!

Subject: RE: GREENSLEEVES ... Whence the name?
From: Mudlark
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 07:45 PM

I agree about the words...and so did Pete Seeger....I remember hearing him do a sort of hoe-down version...

Subject: RE: GREENSLEEVES ... Whence the name?
From: Roughyed
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 07:02 PM

I don't know about the words but the claim that the wastrel Henry V111 wrote the tune is nonsense. If I remember A L Lloyd he was of the opinion that the modern version of the song was an antiquiarian invention based to some degree on tne original. It's still a glorious tune though the words are crap.

Subject: RE: GREENSLEEVES ... Whence the name?
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 02:50 PM

A book called Fractured French. For example:-- coup de grace=lawnmower. Or carte blanche="Take Blanche home, she's drunk again."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: GREENSLEEVES ... Whence the name?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 02:19 PM

Hmm - who was it defined hors de combat as Camp Followers?

Subject: RE: GREENSLEEVES ... Whence the name?
From: alanabit
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 02:08 PM

The story I heard was that at the time, there was only one room in most houses. This meant that couples frequently went outside to make love. Originally the song was played faster and was more known as a bawdy ballad. I don't know the truth of this, but I rather like the story!

Subject: RE: GREENSLEEVES ... Whence the name?
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 01:17 PM

www.contemplator.com says (among other things) of Greensleeves:--

A reading of the lyrics shows it is not a sweet, innocuous love song, but a plea from a 16th century gentleman to his bored mistress. .

That's what I've always thought. Someone once told me that green sleeves were the badge of a court "courtesan," but I have serious doubts about the truth of that.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: GREENSLEEVES ... Whence the name?
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 01:08 PM

Actually, I don't think Anne Boleyn had to worry too much about her wardrobe. From www.tudorhistory.org:--

Anne spent part of her childhood at the court of the Archduchess Margaret. Fraser puts her age at 12-13, as that was the minimum age for a 'fille d'honneur'. It was from there that she was transferred to the household of Mary, Henry VIII's sister, who was married to Louis XII of France. Anne's sister Mary was already in 'the French Queen's' attendance. However, when Louis died, Mary Boleyn returned to England with Mary Tudor, while Anne remained in France to attend Claude, the new French queen. Anne remained in France for the next 6 or 7 years. Because of her position, it is possible that she was at the Field of Cloth of Gold, the famous meeting between Henry VIII and the French king, Francis I.

During her stay in France she learned to speak French fluently and developed a taste for French clothes, poetry and music.

Personally, I don't think anyone is going to come up with an authoritative answer for this one. But keep on looking. There may actually be an answer. Somewhere.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: GREENSLEEVES ... Whence the name?
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 12:30 PM

And the roylties, as Flanders and Swan so aptly said, go to royalty.....

Subject: RE: GREENSLEEVES ... Whence the name?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 12:25 PM

Well, I think that Greensleeves is a corruption of a title from a Gaelic language. "Slieve" means mountain, and the word is used in quite a few song titles.

To the person who thought it referred to the sleeves of women working in the fields: Don't you ever garden? When you work in a field, you wind up covered with dirt, not green stuff.

I read in an authoritative place, but I forget which, that Greensleeves appeared in the time of Elizabeth I and Shakespeare. So forget all those myths about Henry 8. Eliz had at least one Irish harper at her court, and maybe he brought the tune to England.

Subject: RE: GREENSLEEVES ... Whence the name?
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 09:38 AM

I think you're all labouring under a misconception that the word refers to " green sleeves" That is just a recent mis-hearing. The song actually was written about "greens leaves",and was a sort of exhortatory lullaby type song encouraging children to eat up their cabbage. Well, that'd what my reacher used to say: so forget about the prostitute harpists. Next week's topic: The foggy foggy dew.

Subject: RE: GREENSLEEVES ... Whence the name?
From: GUEST,philippa
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 09:22 AM

Bo, where did you go to school? I heard something similar. A teacher in secondary school told us the song was to a camp follower, one of the women following the soldiers. He didn't actually use the word "prostitute". Reading the lyrics here, the song seems to me to belong to the more romantic medieval "Court of Love" tradition in which knights pined for noble Ladies.

Subject: RE: GREENSLEEVES ... Whence the name?
From: greg stephens
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 07:11 PM

Green was certainly the traditional colour for amale minstrel/harpists robes in Tudor times...but they weren't ladies...i think.

Subject: RE: GREENSLEEVES ... Whence the name?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 07:07 PM

Anne Bulleyn (or Boleyn as she became known) was a commoners' daughter, and as such, would have had to wear the same blouse frequently, especially in a time where even the rich only had a few. The average for the middle classes was 2 or 3.

Separate sleeves and slashed sleeves were a fashion item, because it showed off the fine linen shirt underneath. People were wearing and making gowns with sleeves set in as much as 800 years before Henry VIII. It was nothing to do with washing, as anyone who has ever washed socks will tell you - one always disappears.

LTS

Subject: RE: GREENSLEEVES ... Whence the name?
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 06:59 PM

I asked a question about Greensleeves a year ago (+) try that for the bizarre & maybe a nugget.
GUEST,[e-mail]
the composer was my question - go look.

Subject: RE: GREENSLEEVES ... Whence the name?
From:
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 04:16 PM

I believe this song was composed by a mistral,in the time of Henry 8. The manor houses of that time had minstral galleys,used by companies of minstrals, in a school I went to had a minstral galley.I dont except the Anne Bolyen story,she wouldnt keep using the same blouse over and over again,I believe greensleeves was a member of the gentry possibly daughter of the squire ,she was well above the mintral in her station.

Subject: RE: GREENSLEEVES ... Whence the name?
From: BSeed
Date: 12 Aug 98 - 07:00 PM

Bo: You dinna read it quite right (reading all these Irish postings is getting to me). It was "admit.--seed"--not the same thing with the period. :(

Subject: RE: GREENSLEEVES ... Whence the name?
From: Susan of DT
Date: 12 Aug 98 - 06:25 PM

I am not sure this is the origin, but...
In Tudor times, sleeves were not integral parts of women's dresses, but were tied on (easier to wash the sleeves alone, maybe) women could also change the look of an outfit by changing the sleeves. Perhaps the woman nicknamed "Lady Greensleeves" liked to where green sleeves with many of her dresses. Since it was fashionable to pay court to other men's wives, using a nickname could protect the not-so-innocent. Also, in terms of Henry VIII's wives and coverup sleeves, Anne Boleyn was reputed to have an extra finger.

Subject: RE: GREENSLEEVES ... Whence the name?
From: Bo
Date: 12 Aug 98 - 04:58 PM

Somehow "I must admit --seed"

is a dangerous way to end that last post :)

Bo

Subject: RE: GREENSLEEVES ... Whence the name?
From: BSeed
Date: 10 Aug 98 - 03:23 PM

I read somewhere that "Greensleeves" was a kind of nickname given to London prostitutes who took their customers to the park and ended ub with grass stains on the elbows of their sleeves. I've heard this strongly disputed, as well, I must admit.--seed

Subject: RE: GREENSLEEVES ... Whence the name?
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 10 Aug 98 - 03:15 PM

I'll bet a nickel that no one knows the answer for sure. There may have been no real Lady Greensleeves.

Subject: GREENSLEEVES ... Whence the name?
From: Zorro
Date: 10 Aug 98 - 04:11 AM

A lot of years ago a folk singer/guitar teacher told me that Greensleeves got it's name from a wondering minstrel from somewhere in the UK. It seems that the women who worked in the fields at the time, wore long sleeved white blouses to protect their arms from the sun and that after working all day the sleeves would be green. He fell in love with one of these ladies and was rejected, thus he composed the song. I've played the song and told that story many times, until recently a young man said the name "Greensleeves" came from the wife of Henry the VIII (?) who had scars on her arms and frequently wore green blouses with long sleeves to hide them. The song, then was about her. I like my version better. It sounds more folksy.. but being a purist I'd like to know the origin. Anyone know??