Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...

Subject: Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 06:13 PM

I'm a big fan of Vin Garbutt. I think he is one of the most stimulating and interesting of artists. If anyone out there doesn't know his work, start with his live album " Plugged". Now, I feel that Vin is - even at this latish stage in his career - capable of winning a massive audience. Martin Carthy couldn't, and , I don't believe, Kate Rusby could. But, if Vin were given an hour of prime-time TV, I think he could break big. Why? He's funnier than Billy Connelly and his intense singing style would appeal to an audience raised on rock. Now, in the meantime ( while we wait for a TV producer to contact Vin ), I think what Vin needs is an album to appeal to a wide audience. - thus the title of this thread: "Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...". Any suggestions? Serious ones please!

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 06:19 PM

Would he want it?

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 07:49 PM

A lot of the songs Vin sings are of course written by other people. He always credits them, but people who know him from records often tend to assume that, for example, Man of the Earth, was written by him.

Any song he sang would be likely to take on a Vin Garbutt colour. It'd be great hearing what he did with just about anything. Bob Dylan, Lennon and McCartney, Noel Coward, George Formby, Stephen Foister...

I agree that he is one hell of a performer, incredibly funny, and then switching to incredibly powerful when he sings. I think he's too idiosyncratic and uncontrollable and unpackageable for the TV apparatchiks ever to expose a mass audience to him. I think the most we can hope for is maybe a live show on the BBC Four ghetto.

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 07:53 PM

Not so sure about your "too idiosyncratic and uncontrollable ..." comment McGrath. One only has to think of the very successful, uncontrollable etc Billy Connelly.

ZM

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 08:01 PM

Compared to Vin Garbutt, I'd say Billy Connolly is very packageable and predictable. Might say a few rude words, but he never makes people feel uncomfortable.

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 09:10 PM

G'day McGrath,

" ... Billy Connolly ... Might say a few rude words, but he never makes people feel uncomfortable ..."

And - after starring in a film about dealing with the bastards that run banks ... he is all over the billboards and buses advertising one! (Out here in Australia - and, presumably, all over the civilised world ... maybe even America.)

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 02:08 AM

I can't imagine Vin on prime-time TV, but I'd love to hear what he would say to the make-up girl and the hairdresser!

He should make a video though - after all, fellow-Teessider Chubby has made a good living from his videos while being banned from TV.

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 04:52 PM

I'm a very big fan of Vin's but I don't think he is a great songwriter. Good on ideas and good in patches, but not great. And I don't think most of his recordings have been produced well. The sound isn't right. Vin needs to make an album of top quality songs - that are reasonalbly well known, and make sure the album sounds great. "Vin Garbutt sings Richard Thompson" would probably do the trick. And, if you're listening Vin, let me hear the finished product BEFORE it is released!

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 05:19 PM

If the mark of a really good songwriter is that someone writes sonhgs that other people can sing, Vin doesn't meet that too often. It's almost impossible to imagine anybody else really putting across most of his songs.

I disagree about the production quality though. I like things simple, without arrangements that get in the way of the song, and that's what you get with Vin's records.

Fair enough, Richard Thompson. But what I'd really like wold be a record of Vin singing Thomas Moore songs, though that's hardly ne a g bif seller. Or among modern writers, Dave Goulder (who wrote The January Man, and a lot of other great songs.) Though again that wouldn't be a big seller.

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 05:46 AM

I should use the spellchecker more consistently:

If the mark of a really good songwriter is that someone writes songs that other people can sing, Vin doesn't meet that too often. It's almost impossible to imagine anybody else really putting across most of his songs.

I disagree about the production quality though. I like things simple, without arrangements that get in the way of the song, and that's what you get with Vin's records.

Fair enough, Richard Thompson. But what I'd really like would be a record of Vin singing Thomas Moore songs, though that's hardly going to be a big seller. Or among modern writers, Dave Goulder (who wrote The January Man, and a lot of other great songs.) Though again that wouldn't be a big seller.

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...
From: Beardy
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 10:12 AM

I too am a fan of Vin ... but I see no reason why he should sell out to the pre-conceived ideas of commercialism that would be imposed on him. Vin has been a professional folk singer for over 30 years and seems fairly happy in his life so why should he want to change it.

To answer the question posed in the title of the thread, I think Vin has just released a CD that answers it. Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of.....Vin Garbutt.

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 12:45 PM

No!No!No! Vin is not a great songwriter! That album is disappointing.And last time I saw Vin he looked shattered! I folk singer's lot is not easy you know. Dashing around the country. Look what happened to Nick Jones. Returning home, probably very tired, from a gig. Bang! We lost, arguably, the greatest talent of the folk revival. I'd love to hear Vin do an album of proven great songs. And, as I have said, for the album to sound great. Vin owes it to himself to produce such an album.

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...
From: GUEST,Vince
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 08:01 AM

Vin is, in my opinion, first and foremost a club or concert hall performer. May be ok on tv (i'm sure he's probably done it!) but not unless it was in front of live audience. Perhaps a show like 'An Evening (or is it audience?) With Vin Garbutt', might be great?, i dunno.

Don't think comparisons with the brilliant 'big yin' is vert fair. Both different styles. Billy is first and last a comediene. Vin is very very funny but it's his singing and playing style that makes him a must see for me, the comedy is a bonus! Oh and yes, i reckon it would be difficult to put across any of his songs as Vin does, although Vin and Bob Fox sound great to-gether.

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 10:32 AM

Interestingly, I remember seeing Vin on a clip from the Cambridge Folk Festival many years ago. The person watching it with me - who wasn't a folkie - enquired, " Is he drunk?" Of couse, there was a time when Billy Connelly considered himself to be a folk singer who told a few jokes. I saw Billy, along with Gerry Rafferty, supporting Fotheringay way back when, and I thought Billy suffered from lack of projection! No, Vin could be a big star given the chance - but that's not likely to happen.

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...
From: GUEST,Vince
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 11:57 AM

Hey was that gig at the Free Trade Hall in Manchester cos i saw Billy when he was with the Humblebums There and i think they may have bin supporting Fotheringay as i remember seeing them there too?!

Connelly had the gift of the comic gab then and twas no suprise that he was destined for where he went from then.

P.s was'nt Fotheringay fantastic. Gawd Sandy & Trevor.!

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 02:24 PM

Guest Vince. Yes, it was the Free Trade Hall. Great Show. What year was that? Me and some friends went backstage after the show and Trevor greeted me like a long lost brother - which did my street cred the world of good. This warm welcome from Trevor has its origins in a gig Trevor played, about a year previously, at Liverpool's St George's Hall ( an impressive setting! ). After the show, me and some mates, persuaded Trevor to go a nearby folk music session at the Victoria pub ( who remembers that place ) which has now been long pulled down. We ended the night back at somebody's pad playing until the early morning.

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...
From: GUEST,Vince
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 03:22 PM

I reckon, tunesmith, it must have bin the early seventies. I've just dug out me Fotheringay LP which was issued in 1970 on the Island label. What a great in-side cover photo of the band on stage that is with Sandy playing a huge 6 string guitar & Gerry Conway on drums (with jet-black hair!) - happy days. Getting back to Vin Garbutt, i recently saw him at the Pacific Road gig in Rirkenhead with Bob Fox and he was 'bloody graaate - cheers all the very best'

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...
From: Tig
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 05:52 PM

We have a tape of Vin performing on a little known TV show called 'The Southbank Show' - one of a series that went out late at night. It was worth seeing but didn't show Vin at his best.

If you check the credits on Vin's recordings I think you will find that he quite often sings other peoples songs - and people then think they are his eg Man of the Earth which was written by Bernie Parry.

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 06:32 PM

The very example I gave earlier in the thread, Tig. Where I also pointed out that he makes a point of giving credit to people when he sings their songs.

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...
From: Strupag
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 05:37 AM

He has written some crackers.
How about "One Legged Begger" or "Turning Steel" as examples?

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...
From: shankmac
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 09:59 AM

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...
From: shankmac
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 10:07 AM

Hit wrong button
Vin brought out a very good song book of his own songs last year. Optamistically called "The Vin Garbutt Songbook volume one". Some great songs in it which will become standards in the years to come. Such as "The Troubles of Erin" and "The Land of Three Rivers" but I think he is too honest to become "mainstream entertainment".

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 05:35 PM

"If the mark of a really good songwriter is that someone writes sonhgs that other people can sing, Vin doesn't meet that too often. It's almost impossible to imagine anybody else really putting across most of his songs.

Note that qualifying "if" in that paragraph I wrote up the thread.. I don't actually believe it is necessarily the mark of a really good songwriter that other people should be able to put the somgs over. (Nobody sings Georges Brassens like Georges Brassens) And I think that Vin actually has written some remarkably good songs.

And if it was a choice between a Richard Thompson concert and Vin Garbutt, it'd be Vin every time for me.

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt Sings the Songs of ...
From: Strupag
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 06:57 PM

Although I generally agree with the quoted statement,MacGrath, Vin has always defied being forced into a category.
If he was just after the money thing, he could have made a fortune, Billy Connelly style, and gone down the socially aware triend that was so popular in the 80's.
The fact that he stayed with his beliefs and wrote songs like "Little Innocents" effectively put him off our TV screens.
Whether one agrees or disagrees with his message is not the point. I think Vin was "snuffed out" of the UK media because he had a minority, but non cool, view.