meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'

Subject: meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'
From: GUEST,celtaddict (without my cookie)
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 08:53 PM

I was involved in a discussion recently about the origins of common but odd-sounding expressions. I am told "off the peg" has a nautical origin. Does anyone know what it is?

Subject: RE: meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'
From: kendall
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 10:06 PM

Never heard it.

Subject: RE: meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 10:13 PM

I know the term as relating to ready made clothes, never heard it in a Maritime setting, but I'm no maritime expert.

Robin

Subject: RE: meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'
From: Amos
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 11:05 PM

It has no meaning I have ever heard other than "off the shelf", "ready to wear", or "of a standardized dimension". I don't know of any maritime usage. I would go back to the author of this idea and ask for an example or reference.

It's possible he was thinking of peg legs, which are often associated with pirates or Captain Ahab of the Pequod, but that would be more a matter of "on the peg" than off it! :>)

A

Subject: RE: meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'
From: GUEST,satchel
Date: 29 Sep 03 - 12:10 AM

I am a maritime expert, and I've never heard of it in a maritime context either. In what situation did celtaddict hear this?

The only thing resembling a "peg" in a maritime context is a belaying pin, which is refered to as a "pin" for short, or the round piece of wood holding a ship together called a treenail (pronounced "trunnel").

I have heard and agree with the terrestrial origins as descibed by Amos, but as to his peg-leg theory, well... he may just be "off his rocker." :)

Sorry--I just couldn't resist.

Subject: RE: meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'
From: GUEST,Phil
Date: 29 Sep 03 - 03:16 AM

Could the expression have been mis-heard. An anchor is often referred to as a pick (as in pick axe) and to drop a pick or swing off a pick is a common expression in Australia.

Perhaps the expression was off the pick rather than off the peg. Or maybe peg is another term for anchor.

Subject: RE: meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Sep 03 - 06:59 AM

Or maybe it has the same meaning in maritime circles as it does ashore - putting on clothes that are hanging there, which weren't made for you. I imagine, after he'd been shanghaied, that'd be the normal way for a sailor to get kitted out.

Subject: RE: meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 03 - 07:57 AM

I've no proof for this at all, but if the watch is turned up in the night and the weather is foul its likely that you might grab the nearest souwester and oilskins rather than looking for your own and hence get dressed "off the peg?"

Subject: RE: meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 29 Sep 03 - 08:00 AM

The above is from me, nothing left of my cookie but crumbs :)

Subject: RE: meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'
From: Bassic
Date: 29 Sep 03 - 08:58 AM

I like the "cut of your jib" Minstrel! Sounds like a very likely hypothesis to me. But like the other posters, I have only seen/heard/understood it as a reference to being "not made to measure" from the clothing industry and always understood it to have originated from there. At least, that's what me dad told me when I was a lad :-).
I think it could have easily have worked the other way however. Its not hard to imagine a sailor, home for a few days, visiting the dockside tailors shop for a new suit, being offered one "made to measure" but because he was away again soon, asking for one "off the peg" (if minstrels idea of the phrases shipboard usage is correct) because he was in a hurry. Its easy to see how the term could have crossed over, especially in the ports.

Subject: RE: meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Sep 03 - 09:11 AM

What's the difference between saying "off the peg" whether the clothes on question are hanging in a locker room or in a shop? How else would you describe it? Unless someone is suggesting that "pegs" are a nautical invention that only got introduced into shops and houses ashore subsequently.

Subject: RE: meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'
From: Celtaddict
Date: 29 Sep 03 - 09:18 AM

I was of course with the use as applied to clothing, but no nautical source, though certainly snagging the nearest gear when going above in foul weather makes a lot of sense, as does the fitting out of the shanghaied sailor. I did ask for an explanation but the person who told me declined to divulge it, saying at concerts he sometimes offers to buy a drink for anyone who can tell him the origin. So of course my interest was piqued intellectually and I would love to know the answer next time I see him.

Subject: RE: meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'
From: Amos
Date: 29 Sep 03 - 10:46 AM

Well, he was pulling your peg-leg, CA!! :>) He may believe he has an angle but the chances are it is fanciful and ungrounded in marine history. It is not unuusual for people to get enamoured of etymologies which are just fanciful imaginings with no hostorical suppoprt. These days they get circulated on the Internet which just multiplies the confusion caused!

A

Subject: RE: meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'
From: GUEST,Skipjack K8
Date: 29 Sep 03 - 10:58 AM

There is an Alan Ayckbourn play set on the canals of England, that focuses on the possibilities of inventing nautical names for anything and everything, the vital ingredient, of course, being the gullible landlubber. Apart from that vignette, the play is crap.

Subject: RE: meaning of maritime term
From: greg stephens
Date: 29 Sep 03 - 06:22 PM

Peg is, of course, also a slang term for the membrum virile, particularly when in a state of tumescence. Sailors would often when in foreign parts buy cheap gaudy dresss which they then transported back to Liverpool. When going ashore they would, for speed and convenience, dispense with their trousers and carry two or three of these dresses on coathangers hung on the peg (which after a year or two at sea would be in an appropriate condition). On meeting Maggie May or some other "lady of the town" the sailor would offer a choice of dress"off the peg" in exchange for services rendered. This ,as far as I am aware, is the origin of the phrase.

Subject: RE: meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'
From: Amos
Date: 29 Sep 03 - 06:33 PM

Greg:

I accept your statement that this is the origin of the phrase as far as you are aware, but I must add that that is not very far!! Perhaps you need a brain transfusion from your own peg?? LOL!!!


A

Subject: RE: meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Sep 03 - 07:00 PM

Greg is off the peg?
Off the pegleg, = off his rocker.

Subject: RE: meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Sep 03 - 07:11 PM

Greg is short a peg of a six-pack!

Maybe we should be considering "fids" rather than "pegs."

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'
From: Gareth
Date: 29 Sep 03 - 07:18 PM

Hmmm ! I am not sure that I can offer any erudite comment on this but draw your attention to the navigating practice under sail of the "peg board".

It was the custom in the RN to mark the course desired on a board. With the compass points and quarter points marked by by a serious of peg holes, both for direction and course made good.

The quatermaster (in the Navy term) would mark by means of a peg the course actually sailed, and the time (glasses) sailed on that course.

This was an aid to the sailing master to work up his "dead reckoning" and fix the position.

Just a thought

Gareth

Subject: RE: meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 06:06 AM

Bravo Greg, the true meaning at last. If it isn't, it ought to be. Burl

Subject: RE: meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 09:52 AM

Well, that takes my comment down a peg or two.

Dryly,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'
From: JWB
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 10:09 AM

I grew up in Maine, where "peg" was a verb, meaning to throw, as in "I pegged an apple at his head." Since so many Mainers went to sea, perhaps this got used afloat, with the result that "off the peg" meant to miss your target.

Thinking outside the compass,

Jerry

Subject: RE: meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 09:07 PM

Late 18th-early 19th c. slang, from a Dictionary of Buckish Slang, etc., 1811:

Gone to Peg Trantrum's - dead.

Peg- a blow with a straight arm; a blow

and others-

Peggo- the penis

Subject: RE: meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'
From: Amos
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 09:33 PM

I don't think so, Jerry -- not out of the question, but it seems unlikely to me. I played pegging apples at heads and mumblety-peg in Maine, also...but I never heard the expression go up the gangplank somehow...

Subject: RE: meaning of maritime term 'off the peg'
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 12 Jan 24 - 06:52 PM

I have just heard this story from an old timer in the pub, who was told this by old sailors when he was in his youth - apparently, the term came from old sailors, who on docking in various ports across the world in days gone by (probably 1920s/1930s) were presented with local guys sitting on 'pegs' who were available for prostitution.