BS: Ontario Election

Subject: BS: Ontario Election
From: Raptor
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 01:34 PM

Make sure you vote!!!

Unless you believe that Ernie is a good choice!

Any thoughts?

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 01:40 PM

There's government in Ontario?

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: Raptor
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 01:43 PM

NOT YET!!

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 01:47 PM

Well, then maybe we should keep it that way...

Heh

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: black walnut
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 08:26 PM

If you care about kids, vote out the PCs. If you care about health, vote out the PCs.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: Mooh
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 11:29 PM

I predicted the last two Tory governments, much to my chagrin. Never underestimate the ability of people to make the wrong selection. I generally like to volunteer for the NDP, being an underdog kind of guy. My riding will likely go Liberal, but I'll be celebrating the Tory loss with my fellow volunteers anyway.

There are some pretty good print and TV ads this time around encouraging folks to vote. Hope they work.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 12:21 AM

Sure, vote NDP look at the mess they left the PC's to deal with. Health Care Ha! there's no free lunch people, Not with doctors making $250,000 a year.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 12:30 AM

"Not with doctors making $250,000 a year"

You'd rahter see folk singers making it?? Or maybe politicians? Or actors?

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: GUEST,I'd vote Genghis Khan over Ernie
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 01:45 AM

I think I'm going to vote Liberal but I won't be voting for a party so much as against one.

The irony of the NDP is that the NDP Government voted out of power was much more capable, and equally honest, as the government voted into power. This is not something, I personally, have ever felt about Conservatives in Ontario.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: Mooh
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 08:44 AM

I like Clinton's first question, even if not for the same reasons (I'm guessing). Government in Ontario has been missing throughout several critical moments in recent history. But all in all it's the prevailing smug attitude of some in power which is reflected in the rigged (if any) public consultation process. Our representatives are visible, if only to tell us they know what's good for us. Besides the water, meat, education, and health care issues, there are other almost unsurmountable problems like reversing the decimation of natural resources and environment enforcement, and creating trust in public sector labour relations.

The longer I live the less likely there'll be a party which really represents my interests, but for the time being the NDP is close.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: Willie-O
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 02:12 PM

I still haven't actually decided exactly how to vote against the Tories. I was going to go strategically Liberal again, there being a vague chance that the Liberal candidate might actually win (and I'd sure like to see the undistinguished party hack Norm Sterling go down).

But Hampton has run a very good, focussed campaign. I'm inclined to reward that performance, which has promoted values I am all for.
Since the NDP polls 3-5% in our riding, it would be a token shot.

And the Green candidate is a good friend and also a good choice...

After the last 2 elections I'm not inclined to completely dismiss the Tories until there is a stake in Eves' creepy undersized heart. So get out there and vote against em dammit.

Guest, if you think the NDP left a mess, wait till we see the true dimensions of the mess the Tories will bequeath their successors. Have you not heard that aside from undermining public health care and education, showing a stunning incompetence at running the hydro system (talk about rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic), and downloading major reponsibilities to municipalities while restricting their ability to raise funds for them, they are blatantly denying a $4.5 billion deficit which even the Fraser Institute can see happening.

Eight years and this to show...throw em to the sharks and quick!

W-O

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 02:57 PM

Ho! Ho! Ho! I await the Tory downfall with glee that mere words cannot express. I am about to vote Liberal, which I have never done before, but they are the party which could knock the PC's out of this riding. If I voted where my heart lies I would vote Green Party. After them I would vote NDP. However, the Liberals may actually win here (in a riding which has elected PC's ever since Confederation), so I will vote Liberal just to drive one more nail into the Tory coffin...or perhaps I should say a stake into its black heart.

The PC's got elected originally by the same manipulative tactics that neo-conservatives have been using ever since the Reagan era...

Promise tax cuts....what it really means is that they reduce government spending by cutting all kings of vital and necessary services, privatizing government agencies (selling them off to their business pals who provide their campaign funding), and downloading expenses onto cities, towns, and municipalities (who cannot afford the extra load).

The result: a crumbling social infrastructure, higher private charges for the now privately run social services accompanied by worse service to boot, higher municipal taxes and local costs for just about everything, and more money in the pockets of the corporate bosses, but less for everyone else.

What a con game.

They assume that the public is too stupid to notice the right hand of the government robbing them while the left hand gives them a shiny new penny...in the form of a small tax rebate which is considerably smaller than all the new expenses that have been passed on to them throughout the public and private sector.

And they were right! The public was that stupid...for awhile.

But not any longer, by the looks of it.

Do I expect much from the Liberals? Nope. They're scoundrels too. I just want to put the Conservatives in the trashcan where they belong after having trashed this province.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: black walnut
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 02:59 PM

Dalton's bus intersected me going north today on my way going west to work. Where was he off to? CBC radio said that both Ernie and Dalton declined the opportunity to do a CBC radio phone-in. They responded that they were too busy. Apparently they were on pop radio stations today instead.

My riding is very Liberal. Let's hope that they can get some of that money back into the impoverished health and education systems. I know that's sounding cliche now, but it's still so true. These systems are choking. I have two kids in special ed., so believe me, I know some of how the schools have been disintegrating in front of our blindfolded eyes. Teacher's right to strike? Good grief, Ernie....why not take it all away? You've already taken the books, the pencils, the teachers, the secretaries, the "extra" staff who designate and care for students with giftedness and learning disabilities, the toilet paper, and the morale.

I can't help but think that it's going to be a Liberal majority, the way the polls keep predicting it. I wonder what it was like to vote before polls?

~b.w.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 03:06 PM

Polls should actually be banned, I think, because they have an undue influence on the election process.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: Raptor
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 03:12 PM

We must vote to keep ernie OUT and I'm not sure the NDP stand a chance so we need to vote liberal I like the gas tax going to public transportation idea!

The last 2 provintial elections Polls had the liberals ahead but we still got stuck with the antichrist (mIKE harrass). So don't be sure that we will avoid them and if we split our votes between NDP and libs they can sneek in again!

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: Raptor
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 03:16 PM

I Want Clinton Hammond For Priemer!!!

Put that on a T-shirt Little Hawk!

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 03:28 PM

That's a scary scary thought Raptor...

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: black walnut
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 03:40 PM

I have to agree with you L.H. Polls have a huge influence.
~b.w.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: GUEST,Arnie
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 04:07 PM

Politicians are like car salesman, only they are selling themselves to get a job and power. They'll tell you anything they think will get them elected, and wait for prime opportunities to do it. They put people that have zero expertise in charge of important departments , so they shuffle responsibility to all sorts of unqualified people. Elected ministers soon find out that they don't have nearly enough tax dollars to keep their promises, so they have trouble figuring out which ones to keep and which ones not to keep. Their budgets are subject to unforseen changes in the world economy. Why anyone would want to go into politics is beyond me. The PC's thought they had "Common Sense" - boy are we in trouble. Remember they put John Snobelen- a high school dropout in charge of education - and when He blew it there they put him in charge of environment or something that they thought more insignificant, and he spent all his time at a horse ranch in North Dakota at taxpayers expense. I know that our record company sold 260,000 recordings to be part of a kit to new parents in The Early Years dept way over a year ago. So far I am not aware of a single person getting the kit (worth millions of tax dollars). Whenever we tried to get information from that ministry they always came up with something to put us off. We got some action only when we told them we were going to the press, and still the handling of this kit is a mystery.   I wonder if any PC politician is looking forward to landing in an emergency hospital wing someday to see all their magnificent improvements. On and on -lots of incompetence in every department- it may be laughable if it wasn't pathetic. Ontario is lucky to have a booming economy right now, and since that is the case, why is it that the government does not have enough money to put into important areas? - And they still want to con you on a tax cut to get elected!
The trouble is I'm afraid the next government may be just a stupid and incompetent, but why not give some other folks a chance to make some things better - I have my doubts though.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: Mooh
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 04:50 PM

The economy is only booming for the haves, not the have-nots. It booms on the backs of the working poor, education, health care, natural resources, and an endless stream of now privatized agencies. The Tories have gutted communities of schools, the lakes and forests of conservation officers, nursing homes of beds, and Queen's Park of dignity.

When they disposed of the NDP 8 years ago I was working for a public sector labour union. Immediately my workload increased tenfold. We used to say "If Harris is the answer, it must have been a stuupid question." Yup. My riding would probably take the award for the whiniest MPP, Helen Johns. Her voice is like fingernails on a chalkboard, and she uses it alot to say little. I won't miss her.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 05:22 PM

That's odd. My last post disappeared. In it I suggested to Raptor that it is too late to have Clinton Hammond run for premier of Ontario, but that we should start gearing up to run him in the next Ontario election.

We could borrow Bill & Opus's old campaign slogan:

"This time why not the WORST?!!"

(Heh!)

- LH

p.s. this one better not disappear or I'll know there's skullduggery afoot!

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: delphinium
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 10:31 PM

No people, no, don't do it!! Don't vote Liberal just to vote out Evil Ernie - Flinty McGuinty will beat him without your help! I say vote FOR what you believe in ... every vote counts FOR someone and something, even if that person doesn't have a chance of getting elected.

My vote will probably be NDP again although I'm tempted by the Greens. Neither has half a chance of getting in.

Maybe Clinton should start a provincial version of the Rhinoceros Party?

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: GUEST,Bardford
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 10:45 PM

Yowzers - you guys could be talking about Alberta.During the last provincial election here, somebody asked me- "Have you ever voted for anybody who won?" Other than some school board and municipal elections, nope. Not since I left B.C in the late seventies. Sure do a lot of voting against, here. good luck with whoever you end up with.

I see Ralph Klein and Mike Harris were out on the links a couple days ago. Touting Mike as a natural to lead a rejuvenated combined Regressive Proform Conservalliance party. Yikes.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 11:47 AM

"we should start gearing up to run him in the next..."
As long as you not just running me!

:-)


"Maybe Clinton should start a provincial version of the Rhinoceros Party?"

The who?

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 12:26 PM

Clinton, the Rhinoceros Party was a party someone started in order to make fun of the whole election process. Their symbol was a nicely drawn rhinoceros. They actually ran quite a large number of candidates back in the 70's (and maybe the 80's, but I can't remember).

It was a spoof, but they did get a certain number of votes. Some of their great campaign proposals that I recall were...

- To end unemployment (and various other problems) by abolishing Statistics Canada.

- To move the Rocky Mountains to the Maritimes so that Easterners could get an equal share of the country's natural beauty.

And...well, that's all I can remember, but I know they had a bunch of other great ideas too! If they were still around, I'd seriously consider voting Rhinoceros.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: black walnut
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 08:03 PM

8:05 PM. Drumroll......

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: black walnut
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 09:22 PM

It's over.
The Liberals have it.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: black walnut
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 07:25 AM

Oooooo.....and the NDP does not. Yikes.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: sian, west wales
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 07:28 AM

Good lord - my mother's constituency stayed Conservative! (Not for the want of my mother trying, I hasten to add.) I'm gobsmacked.

But otherwise - yippee!

Well, 'yippee' as far as 'Tories out' are concerned, anyway.

I moved to Wales in 1980 and the last time I voted in Canada, I voted Rhino. They used to do the best Party Political Broadcasts. I remember one that was just hand-puppets. Joe Clark wore Idiot Mitts. Won me over!

sian

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: Mooh
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 08:22 AM

Dragged my sorry behind home from the NDP afters party late last night. The gathering was good even if the rewards were elusive. I hope the ruling liberals remember their ideals about proportional representation ('cause I think they want it) if there's a movement to grant the NDP official party status.

At least Helen Johns is gone, as is Dianne Cunningham, but that filthy Tory Bill Murdoch is back in. These people make my skin crawl.

Let's hope the Liberals can take the high road.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: sian, west wales
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 09:26 AM

If you get a chance for proportional rep., go for it. There are various 'systems', and some are a lot better than others, but the idea is sound. I think we have a much better Welsh Assembly because of PR. Looking at the Ontario returns, it would make for some interesting seat distribution!

sian

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: Willie-O
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 09:48 AM

A mixed bag for sure. I should be happier to see the back of them. Eves I thought made a fairly classy concession speech. Unfortunately my local Tory incumbent (my name's Norm Sterling, and I'm a party hack) was re-elected and I got to hear him today lecturing the electorate about making the wrong choice, and how we're all going to be wondering in two years why there's no more jobs. Oh f*** off Norm. That stuff didn't wash with us the voters.

I voted NDP, but my friend John the Green candidate did extremely well--2500 votes to the NDP's 3500. Splitting the left is something we'll have to deal with, but when the winner gets 29,000, it's not what you'd call a cliffhanger.

W-O

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: Mooh
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 12:37 PM

No kidding. I was watching the actual numbers and there were still alot of Tory voters. If so many folks hadn't voted Liberal just to prevent a Tory return, the NDP could have doubled (or more) their numbers and the Tories still wouldn't have been elected. The mood at the Canadian Auto Workers Education Centre where I watched the returns on TV was mixed, all were glad of the Tory defeat and sorry for the NDP defeat. Hampton is a good and decent leader, too bad his influence will be diminished.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Election
From: Peter T.
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 05:08 PM

Thank goodness we at least got rid of those stupid neanderthal bastards, that is worth any problems.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: Election 2003 Toast!
From: Bo Vandenberg
Date: 04 Oct 03 - 05:38 PM

Here's to Mike Harris and Ernie Eves
The People that lost the Election
Whom no one will cherish and no one believes
They leave with our deepest rejection!

Bo