Origins: I Live Not Where I Love

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 23 May 21 - 09:06 AM

Could you give me the source Dick. Has the song been published elsewhere than 'Marrowbones'. I would love to read the notes.
Swain also means a country youth in archaic English, which once again underlines the Art music derivation, not that the song is diminished in any way.

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: RTim
Date: 23 May 21 - 09:41 AM

Steve Gardham's - Earliest versions spreadsheet has it as early as 1638 - a Broadside printed in London by Gosson, with an reference of Roxburghe Ballads, BL C.20.f.7 68-69 as primary source (and Roud 593)

So pick the bones out of that....:-)

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 23 May 21 - 02:34 PM

Thanks Tim. Didn't realise it was in Roxburgh. I've got them in PDF so I'll take a look.

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: RTim
Date: 23 May 21 - 02:43 PM

I have also looked in the Bodleian Ballads Online where is can be found on several broadsides, often called "Dear Thomas". (still only 4 verses)......And most interestingly there is also - "I am now living where I Love" - The answer to "Live not where I love".

See the link below:
http://ballads.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/static/images/sheets/10000/07035.gif


Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 23 May 21 - 07:57 PM

I believe there was an answer which ended up on a broadside, and extended the song to 16 verses of eight lines. 32 quatrains which is maybe where Dick got the 40 verse idea from. There are two sets of notes. One in Marrowbones one and the other in the republished version.
I would still like to know a bit more about the tune. Dorset and Hampshire seemed to hold some interesting and unique melodies. 'Bonny Kate' is a good example A-A-B-C, most unusual for a folk song. There is a clue in the words with a Cant word dating from c.1811 in the text. Unfortunately no such help in I live not where I Love other than the aforementioned 'Swain'. I've always loved the song. Gerry Milne always used to dedicate it to his local pub. Wonder if he's still singing (or drinking).

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 May 21 - 03:16 AM

the "idea" of mine . was not the sort of thing i imagined , it was not an answer, however trying to locate it will probably be difficult

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 24 May 21 - 04:11 AM

I hope you find the details Dick, and can post them here. Just to help were the details in a songbook or an article. How old was the publication? Any idea who wrote them? You've got me interested. I'll do a bit of digging as well.

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 24 May 21 - 07:08 AM

More help. There are 52 entries in Roud. Including Reeves 'Everlasting Circle' which I have not got. Could be in there?

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: Reinhard
Date: 24 May 21 - 08:09 AM

Reeves Everlasting Circle' has the version collected by Hammond from Mr Barrett in Dorset that is also printed in Roud, Upton & Tayor, "Still Growing"

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 24 May 21 - 11:59 AM

Thanks Reinhard. The tune in 'Still Growing' has a variable seventh, which I had not noticed before.

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 May 21 - 12:14 PM

Hi Nick
'Swain' is certainly old, but more to the point, it's poetic, high-flown. Holmfirth Anthem's not that old.

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 May 21 - 03:09 AM

Reinhard, you got me racking my brains locating where I got that piece of misinformation from....

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 May 21 - 07:28 AM

could it be pills to purge melancholy?

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 25 May 21 - 12:03 PM

Just had a look at the 'Answer' on a Pitts broadside. Rather interesting. Answers were not usually printed unless the original had been a success. It was certainly far from a success according to Roud. However it has been a resounding success since 'Marrowbones'. I even heard an Irish country version of it in Fleetwood Market.
It may well be that the song was considered to be an Art production and not noted by the early (Pre-Sharp) collectors, in the same way as Sharp ignored early Music Hall material. All speculation of course.