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Should our folk club be non smoking?
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 20 Jan 04 - 11:53 AM Peat [deanmister]-Go to Hull Folk Club, Chanterlands Ave, [opposite Micks house], we all smoke there, when the weather gets warmer you could go on your cycle, and have a few drinks as well. |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: Clinton Hammond Date: 20 Jan 04 - 11:58 AM Do you go to smoke or to play music? Cause I look at it this way... I can smoke whenever I want to... it's not always I can play music with other people... I know I prefer non-smoking gigs... I've never been to a 'folk club' where you could amoke inside... But then again, I won't smoke in my own car or house either... why anyone would is beyond me... do some people LIKE to stink? |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: The DeanMeister Date: 20 Jan 04 - 12:02 PM Points taken, chaps. Just felt the need, as you do. Hope y'all don't mind. I don't often express my thoughts in such a way. I enjoyed it. Not really relevant to this thread, I appreciate. But it just seemed to touch a nerve. Think I'll go have a Horlicks now. Oh, and a cig. In my castle. Toodlepip. Pete. |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: GUEST,KB Date: 20 Jan 04 - 12:24 PM (thought I posted this earlier, but it seems to not have got there) My mum is allergic to smoke. Even one single smoker in the room can mean she has sinus pain for days afterwards. So the only chance she has to go to a folk club is if there is one nearby that is non-smoking. Our local FC is nonsmoking, and we are really grateful for that. Otherwise she'd have to stay at home. A friend is asthmatic, and finds that smokey environments affect her voice so badly that she cannot rely on it - hence she doesn't sing. That is a real loss because she has a really lovely quality voice. I am not allergic or asthmatic, but still find smoke affects my voice - so my preference is to go to non-smoking venues. These are solid reasons for being very glad that there are nonsmoking clubs available, not touchy-feely or trying to spoil anyone's smoking fun. |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: harvey andrews Date: 20 Jan 04 - 12:35 PM There's no way smoking and singing go together. As the performer I'm breathing more deeply than anyone else in the room. I'm also asthmatic and cigar smoke in particular will close my chest and end my performance.All my gigs are non-smokers now, folk clubs included and my audience numbers have not declined at all. I know many people who would never come to see me in a smoking environment. As to the smoking in pubs question, countries where a ban is in place report increased trade after a settling down period.Pubs are full of smokers because that's where they can smoke! It is an addiction after all and addicts will do anything, say anything, use any excuse, any blackmail, any threat, any specious arguement they can find to justify their craving and their need to satisfy it in public.(see some of above postings). If necessary they can always get together for their own pleasure. One of the worst things brewery chains did was take away the old smoking rooms in pubs and go open plan. We need to either ban it completely or separate it to the satisfaction of both parties. |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny Date: 20 Jan 04 - 12:59 PM I'm with Harvey. If I play a smoking club (and I do) my breathing (and therefore my singing) suffers, when I get home my clothes stink like crap, and the next day I spend half my time coughing like some broken-down tinker's mare. And I'm neither a bronchitis sufferer nor an asthmatic, so it goes to prove what a filthy, antisocial addiction smoking is. There are many other top-name artists as well as Harvey who only play at non-smoking venues, and their attendances don't seem to suffer. If these guys who smoke want to poison themselves, fine. Just don't poison me. |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: greg stephens Date: 20 Jan 04 - 02:43 PM I'm a non-smoker, but I'm on dean meister's side. the anti-smokers here are trying to make out that smoking in pubs or clubs is some sort of assault on people. Rubbish. if it's a smoking pub, you can choose for yourself whether to go in or not. we're all big girls and boys. It would be an assault if a smoker barges into a non-smoking place and starts lighting up, but we're not discussing that here. If you're running a club, it's a real dilemma. Go from smoking to non-smoking, and you drive away some of your regulars, but you'll get some new ones in return. You've got to guess what's going to be best. My personal opinion is, if it's a folk club(semi-formal, some of the time, guest act you sit and listen to). go non-smoking. Committed smokers can always slip out for a minute, that won't affet things. If it's session: stay liberal. It seriously spoils a good session developing if half the players keep popping out for a cigarette. I was involved in a session in a pub that turned the session room into the non-smoking bit. We soon folded the session because it never flowed after the change: the constant turnover of personnel through the evening completely wrecked the music. Difficult decisions: I'll just repeat, to any smokers, I do not consider you are being evil and assaulting me if you are smoking in your pub and I walk up to you. It is my decision if I come in. Please continue with what you are doing( though I have to say, general opinion is that it's bad for you). Those who dont want to go to smoky places, fine, we can all vote with our feet. Non-smkers are winning this one anyway,sorry puffers but you're going to end up outside everywhere soon. But it wont be me that kicked you out. |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton Date: 20 Jan 04 - 02:46 PM I have a great deal of sympathy for smokers. They are hooked on the most potent of all drugs, the habit that's harder to break than cocaine or heroin. The problem is that tobacco smoke contains all kinds of harmful chemicals that kill not only the smoker but harm everyone within their cloud. If you can smell it, it can hurt you. The problem is that those addicted can't understand those who choose not to smoke. They do it so they figure it's their right to continue though it hurts others. It's not a malevolent thing, it's an addictive behavior which is not easy to break. So being "high and mighty" about it and saying "just say no" won't help the situation. But if more clubs were more non-smoking, then maybe the smokers would take the tough road and quit. They would be doing themselves a great service and to everyone who doesn't smoke around them. There are plenty of ex-drug users who state that they really felt good being high. But the price paid is too dear. It's tough to break a pernicious habit but worth the effort but I personally applaud the courage that it takes to do it. Alcohol and tobacco addiction require great strength to break. I'm grateful for those who have the courage to do it. Frank |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: GUEST Date: 20 Jan 04 - 03:01 PM The club I help run went non-smoking about ten years ago and had a big upsurge in attendance. Many people were staying away because of the smoke. After the change, the smokers kept coming and now adjourn to the parking lot during the breaks. However, there are fewer and fewer smokers in the parking lot every year. Several have died from cancer and heart disease and more and more are quitting every year. I'm yet to hear any ex-smoker say they've regretted quitting. So many singers have commented on how much they appreciate the non-smoking atmosphere. I've never smoked myself, but now a night at the club means I don't come home stinking like I do and I feel a whole lot better the next day. |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: Clinton Hammond Date: 20 Jan 04 - 03:01 PM Greg S... well said chum! Now... -I'm- a smoker... But maybe it's that I'm not an addict... (You CAN smoke and not be addicted... anyone who says differently is full of it!) cause I can go places and do things and NOT smoke... and be quite happy about it... To me it's a matter of choice... when and where I smoke... I guess it's not like that for every one... and for those who are 'compelled' I feel sorry... But as Greg said... the non-puffers are winning... the pendulum has swung to thier side, and it's gonna go further before it comes back... so smokers... be ready... And I gotta ask again... do you go out to the club to play music or to smoke??? The only place it bugs me is when I drive past a 'legion hall'... these are all non-smoking around here now, and it breaks the heart... to see the clusters of sad looking little old dudes who fought and killed and died and suffered to keep this country free, huddled around like sheep, with thier backs to the wind, having to smoke outside in the dead of winter... Please... let these dudes, who have served above and beyond enjoy a ciggie and a half draft in the warm...... Does it really matter that much? Sorry... that's way off topic.... |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: Don Firth Date: 20 Jan 04 - 03:34 PM The whole planet should be declared non-smoking. And this from a guy who smoked like a chimney for thirty years. Any singer who smokes is missing a few brain cells. If you played a clarinet, would you blow hot smoke through your instrument thirty or forty times a day? Pretty idiotic, eh? And a clarinet can take it a whole lot better that your larynx can (besides, clarinets rarely get throat or lung cancer). And on top of this, anyone who inflicts his or her second-hand smoke on someone else is a rude, inconsiderate slob. I was a rude, inconsiderate slob for decades, but one bright and shiny day twenty-six years ago, I grew another brain cell and quit. And you know what? My singing voice got better and stronger right away. And I no longer start each day by sitting on the side of my bed for fifteen minutes trying to cough up a lung (then reaching for a cigarette when the spasm subsides). Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: Clinton Hammond Date: 20 Jan 04 - 03:45 PM The whole planet should be declared a -No 'Holier Than Thou'- zone first... |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: greg stephens Date: 20 Jan 04 - 03:49 PM Don I'm not sure if your use of the words inflict, rude and inconsiderate are entirely fair here. I'm going to pop out to the "Jolly Potters" in a minute for a pint or two of Joule's. i will probably go into the first little snug bar on the right. There will probably be people in there before me, who may be smokeking. They will not be "inflicting" anything on me, neither will they be being rude or inconsiderate. On the other hand, it would be incredibly rude and inconsiderate of me to walk in and inflict myself on them by telling them not to smoke, just because I dont want them to. I take people, and pubs as I find them, generally speaking. If they walk into my house, I'll ask them not to smoke. If I walk into a pub, I will follow the customs of the pub.Those who smoke,smoke, and those who don't, don't. |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: vectis Date: 20 Jan 04 - 04:05 PM My club went partially non-smoking 10 years ago and fully non-smoking as soon as we realised that even one smoker in the room even under the extractor fan stunk the whole club out. We have gained audience and singers steadily ever since. Smokers can stand in the bar or lobby and puff away to their hearts content and don't need to miss much of the show to do so. We have had some people who couldn't stand the loss of nicotine and stopped coming but very few. I used to go out for a ciggy but got fed up missing bits of every club night, one of the reasons I gave up. Go non-smoking if it won't cut the audience too drastically. Alternatively, set up a smokers area next to an open window or fan for a few months and then declare it non-smoking once people are partly resigned to the inevitability of it happening. Good luck |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: Don Firth Date: 20 Jan 04 - 04:33 PM Greg, I think I'm going to stand by what I wrote. Many, many times I've seen people pull out a cigarette and start to light up when someone nearby, often the host, says, "I would prefer you didn't smoke in here," or "If you want to smoke, would you mind stepping outside?" only to be totally ignored as the clouds of smoke began to billow. You will note that what I said above was "anyone who inflicts his or her second-hand smoke on someone else is a rude, inconsiderate slob." I didn't say all smokers are rude inconsiderate slobs. I do have a number of friends who smoke, and knowing how my wife and I feel about smelling up our apartment with tobacco smoke, when they want to smoke, they step outside. They are not inflicting their second-hand smoke on us and are thereby not rude, inconsiderate slobs. Friend Bob (Deckman) Nelson (who also used to smoke, but has quit) has the same no smoking policy at his house, and so do the vast majority of my non-smoking friends and acquaintances. And Clinton: I hate to be the one to break it to you, but I am Holier Than Thou. Try to bear up, eh? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy Date: 20 Jan 04 - 04:41 PM Don't know if any of you have, or remember, Fintan Vallely's 'Timber, Concert Flute Tutor' from 1986, but he makes some statements about smoke and drink that are quite effective in thier non-judgemental, understated way. As to smoking, (under a great photo of a nun in habit with a fag hanging off her lip like an auto mechanic working on an engine, and all of us who smoke or have smoked can feel the smoke against our cheek and curling into our left eye. Some jobs almost required the cig for proper completion) he says: SMOKING AND FLUTE PLAYING "If you play music and smoke, then you might well be in a worse state than those who simply smoke, for you're going to find yourself in smoky atmosphere more often. If you play the flute it's worse again. There are of course no statistics available since flute players are a voiceless minority. Cigarettes seem to be handy for those boring interludes between tunes when you either don't know the other players, or have nothing to say to them. They also help cloud the atmosphere to enhance the onset of developing divil-me-caredness. But it must be presumed that smoking is particularly dangerous to flute players: We (in Ireland) seem to be condemned to do most of our playing in sealed beauty-board boxes filled with smoke. We (flute players) are the only people in the session environment taxing our lungs to the same extent as long-distance runners. But while runners do their thing in the fresh air, we are filling every available scrap of our distended lung-tissues with smoke deposits. Meanwhile, the non-flute playing classes are happily shallow-breathing in as little as perhaps a third of it what we do. Presumably without ever lighting a cigarette we could already be shortening our lives dramatically?" just a simple statement of the facts, and probably a nudge to flute players to give up smoking since they get enough by just breathing, not a lecture or sermon, and no call to action. well stated, Fintan! |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: MAG Date: 20 Jan 04 - 04:59 PM (Rant.) - Let's ask our dear friend Rick. - Utah Philips has publicly stated that smoking is what damaged his heart - the lately late Fred Holstein smoked like a chimney. At Holstein's once he was puffing away on stage and rather defiantly announced he could smoke becasue it was his place. One audience member (guess who) defiantly shouted "It's our air!" He once ran that "Smoking improves my voice" sppiel on me, and I stared him down. Yes, he looked away first. - I cannot go to the local open mike because of the smoke. The place never heard of ventilation, but my band will only play no-smoking venues because the fiddler can't take the smoke. Just LOOK at what smoking has cost us in the folk community. M.A., who really meant to practice more on this rare extra day off, and who once snatched a ciggie out of the mouth of a kid on a bus who smirkingly lit up in her face (non-smoking bus) |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: Clinton Hammond Date: 20 Jan 04 - 05:03 PM You may THINK you are Don... but don't kid yerself... yer sh!t stinks... just like everyone else.... But you are right in that... "Many, many times I've seen people pull out a cigarette... only to be totally ignored as the clouds of smoke began to billow" Is a very rude thing to do... I guess it's a matter of where... if it's someones home say... (say yours) and you ask me not to smoke... I'd be an a$$ to light up anyway... and it'd be your right to toss me out on my ear.... But in an "open to the public" space (A pub... or a club say), where smoking is permitted, all one can do is ask... And in asking, one of the possible answers is NO... you must be prepared for that... If you don't like it, the onus is on you to go... and to tell the 'owner' of that space why you are leaving and taking you $$ with you... He'll either care or not.... depending on his goals as a business man... |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: Peter Woodruff Date: 20 Jan 04 - 05:25 PM I am a smoker. I occasionally smoke cigars. I used to smoke a pipe and I regularly smoke cigarettes and salmon. I do not wish this habit on anyone so I am perfectly happy not to inflict my pleasures on someone else in the close quarters of a pub or folkclub...I just step outside to smoke my salmon. Ha ha ha. Peter |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: GUEST Date: 20 Jan 04 - 05:41 PM Sorry, Greg. Rubbish. if it's a smoking pub, you can choose for yourself whether to go in or not doesn't wash with me. I do not choose to stay out of my own folk club. I have been forced out. It is a club I have helped to run for over 25 years but my nasal passages are now sensitive to the extent that I can no longer tolerate smoke. Am I asking too much that the 25% of smokers in our club (I think it is less actualy) give us non smokers a break? Do you think that they would do a deal where we had 3 nights out of 4 non-smoking? Would they hell. I'ts their right to smoke so why should they have the terrible inconvenience of moving 5 yards into another room to help me enjoy my night? And there is NO pub in walking distance where I can get away from it, let alone a folk club. Yes - it's a realy good choice I have isn't it? Have terrible health problems or never go out... Cheers. DtG |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: Clinton Hammond Date: 20 Jan 04 - 05:46 PM "I have been forced out." Then lobby to change it! |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: Hand-Pulled Boy Date: 20 Jan 04 - 11:27 PM After a night singing my little heart out in a smokey pub I throw up and spew green and yellow phlem all over the wife's new wilton and usually shit myself before I reach the bog plus my testicals ache like a football's been booted into them. I think it's stopped me making babies and the wife's getting suspicious when I douse myself in petrol to get rid of the stale 'shag' fumes on me parka. Having said that some of my best friends smoke and want me to die at the same time as them. How thoughtful. |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: Bo Vandenberg Date: 21 Jan 04 - 04:29 AM I sympathize with smokers but care about _everyone's_ health more. It really boils down to 'Breathing Is Not Negotiable. To smokers: Why do you want to harm the lungs and health of those close to you? Why do you think that your addiction to smoking supersedes your compatriots expectation of the cleanest possible air? If I put jars of foul smelling pond scum on all the tables I sat at, occasionally dosing the room with it for good measure, would you think me rude? What if I just liked breathing the fumes? My honest advice to a folk club is absolutely don't allow smoking, you will keep your members longer, they'll sing better, and they will be more happy. Especially if smoking is still allowed in your region, you might well have a more loyal following as a haven for non smokers. Smokers must realize that the days of indoor smoking are numbered they will not stay away if they want to sing. If you want to attract older performers, I'd advertise 'smoke free' wherever possible. The folk club near me went smoke free (City Bylaw) and it is much better. Smokers go out between sets or sometimes before their turn. Its not a small issue, as some of the above messages will attest. S |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: kendall Date: 21 Jan 04 - 05:00 AM On January 1, all pubs in Maine went non smoking. Restaurants have been non smoking for a few years. So far, they are all still in business. Seems to me it's a matter of ratio. Non smokers outnumber smokers three to one. Anyone who believes in democracy should have no problem going along. A final point; if you are addicted to nicotine, it's YOUR problem and you have no right to make it mine. |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: Dave Bryant Date: 21 Jan 04 - 05:07 AM Vectis, I too would like all folk clubs to be smoke-free, but in the real world thats's not always practical. Incidently, the room where you hold your club may be non-smoking, but the bar where I had to queue to buy my beer was one of the smokiest places I've been in - so I still went home smelling like a bonfire. I do a lot of my singing in pub bars, where although I'm often a frequent visitor, I'm not one of "the regulars" - I therefore have to put up with their preferences. How many pubs would Travelling Folk find to sing in, if they decided to institute a non-smoking policy ? - how many of their regulars (audience as well as performers) would still come ? Even more important how many more of those pubs would go the way of The Star and The Kings Arms at Brasted, The Royal Oak at Shoreham, The Addlestone Tavern etc., if pubs were forced to become no-smoking ? |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: kendall Date: 21 Jan 04 - 05:13 AM Like I said, it's a matter of ratio. Most people don't smoke, so why cater to those who do? If you were to open a new business, would you try to attract 25% of the population, or 75%? It's a no brainer. There is no escaping this simple fact- I must breathe, you do not have to smoke. |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: harvey andrews Date: 21 Jan 04 - 05:30 AM "I'm not an addict... (You CAN smoke and not be addicted... anyone who says differently is full of it!) cause I can go places and do things and NOT smoke... and be quite happy about it... To me it's a matter of choice... when and where I smoke... " "addicts will do anything, say anything, use any excuse, any blackmail, any threat, any specious arguement they can find to justify their craving and their need to satisfy it in public" Clinton, you just gave us a classic example!! |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: Terry K Date: 21 Jan 04 - 05:52 AM Great points Kendall, but I fear you will not convince them. It's because smokers are infected by the bone-headedly stupid gene - they really do believe they have a "right" to smoke. In the same way that equally bone-headedly stupid people believe they have a "right" to smack their children. But that's another issue. |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: kendall Date: 21 Jan 04 - 06:08 AM Smokers DO have the right to smoke, but not in public. |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: Dave Bryant Date: 21 Jan 04 - 06:31 AM Yes it can sometimes be quite amusing the way that some smokers will defend their |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 21 Jan 04 - 06:36 AM Greg: if it's a smoking pub, you can choose for yourself whether to go in or not. Clinton: Greg S... well said chum! Dave the Gnome (cookieless as guest 05:41) : I have been forced out. Clinton: Then lobby to change it! It's funny you should say that Clinton. I did try. You will never guess what they said... if it's a smoking pub, you can choose for yourself whether to go in or not. In the words of Harvey Andrews, above Clinton, you just gave us a classic example!! ;-) DtG |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: stevethesqueeze Date: 21 Jan 04 - 07:17 AM The trouble with smoking is that ones smoke affects others nearby. Its impossible to smoke in public wothout affecting others. Drinking doesnt affect others in the same way and neither does injecting heroin. Its a kind of collateral damage........ I know that in ireland smoking in pubs will be outlawed within a few weeks and it will be interesting to see what happens there. Within a few short years smoking in poiblic will be a thing of the past and a good thing too. But I have to say one reason I dont play in pubs anymore is the smoke. Someone elses problem isnt going to kill me by default. stevethesqueeze |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: greg stephens Date: 21 Jan 04 - 02:48 PM Dave the Gnome I know what you mean, Dave. It's a genuine problem. We do disagree on this one(though I must point out that I came down firmly on the side of making folk clubs non-smoking in my post earlier). I really think, though, you can't in all fairness go to a place where people go to smoke and demand they make the place non-smoking. It's not only smoke that creates this sort o problem. I socialise, and play music a lot, with a number of Muslim firends. Some of them (but by no means all!) don't drink. In addition, some(but by no means all) of those who dont drink actively disapprove of other people drinking, and won't go into licensed premises. So all sorts of compromises and discussions have to take place to create the ideal circumstances yo make music socially, or to record. And then there is the fact that my partner is a fiddler, and also a woman. And some people dont much like women musicians, or women going out much anywhere. And never mind the music. What about the arguments about dancing...whether you do it at all, and if so whether you do it with members of the opposite sex. Life is a mine-field. But what reeeeeeally pisses me off is people who lecture smokers about their foul emissions which kill people, but drive cars themselves. Smoky rooms I can just about to;lerate, but rampant hypocrisy is just niggling in an all-pervasive way. |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: Clinton Hammond Date: 21 Jan 04 - 04:14 PM Hey... don't go reading YOUR adjenda into MY posts... My post about me not being an addict is NOT a 'classic example'... it's the truth... -I- chose when and where I smoke... If I'm in someones house (most likely even if they smoke as well) I most often do not smoke... If I'm in a pub where smoking is allowed, having a few pints with mates over a few games of darts, I likely WILL smoke... I'n MY car or anyone elses, I don't smoke... Out for a walk, on a cold clear winters night, I will smoke... But -MY- smoking is NOT the issue here... and how it got to be is beyond me... DtG... so you lobbied and lost... It happens... Read what I said above about asking... sometimes the answer is gonna be NO... Life sucks... get a helemt... But you did all that you could do eh... You tried... it just so happens that you failed... you could try again and again and again util you 'get your way' or you could suck it up like an adult and go somewhere else... find something else to do.... That's an issue for your own consience... And I would NOT presume to offer advice on matters of consience... Except to say you gotta do what you think is right... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "she always asserted that links between smoking and cancer, heart problems, respiratory deseases etc had never been proven. I'm sure she'd have still been saying this, if she hadn't died some years ago - of cancer." Some experts will say she was right... some will say she wasn't... The trick I guess lays in proving that she wouldn't have died of cancer if she hadn'ta smoked... a hard case to make... I've known smokers who've lived to be a million... and I've know heath-junkies who've dropped dead at 28.... Sure... common sense would probably say that sucking lungfulls of smoke is probably really bad for you... But since when has common sense had anything to do with science? Look at the 'Meat Puppets' duped by the "common sense" of the Atkins Diet? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "My honest advice to a folk club is absolutely don't allow smoking" Here here... Like I keep asking and no one will answer... Are you going for the music or to smoke? |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: GUEST,Non Smoker Date: 21 Jan 04 - 04:18 PM So Maine became a non smoking in public places place, but the restaurants didn't suffer? Maybe because their biggest addiction and cause of heart disease is their overeating? |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: Clinton Hammond Date: 21 Jan 04 - 04:25 PM Heh... funny NSer... But going non-smoking didn't hurt the subways... it didn't hurt the movie theatres.... it didn't hurt the airlines... Didn't hurt Greyhound Buslines... or Via-rail... or any of the other places smokers used to say they "had" to smoke in.... Why should it hurt restaurants??? (pubs/bars MIGHT be another matter... some say that most people who frequent such places smoke... I donno... I never counted 'em...) |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: Clark Date: 21 Jan 04 - 04:38 PM Having a smoking section in a pub makes about as much sense as having a peeing section in a swimming pool. It's all or nothing and I (as a flute player) vote for nothing. I have to admit that the crac I get from playing in our occasionally smoky pub keeps me there... but only a couple times a month. |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Jan 04 - 04:50 PM Nobody is addicted to smoking. The smoking itself is a ritual, not an addiction. The addiction is to nicotine. Smoking is a convenient way to get the nicotine, but even a single person smoking in a room is forcing everyone else to breathe in the smoke, whether they want to or not. If anybody present would rather you didn't smoke, elementary courtesy requires that you don't smoke in the room. What really does get up my nose, literally, is when someone puts down a fag to smoulder in an ash-tray, for example while they play a tune. That smells absolutely foul. When they are actually inhaling I don't mind it - it's probably not too good for you, but I reckon it's had the worst stuff filtered out in the smokers lungs, and it certainly doesn't smell as bad as in the ash-tray. But there are always more people in the room who would rather people didn't smoke, and that should settle things. But there are other ways to get the nicotine, which don't involve imposing on other people in that way. Including the fine old traditional method of snuff. I have no doubt that as smoking bans become more and more common, snuff is going to make a come back. Mind, you do get some funny looks when you take snuff in a public place... |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: Micca Date: 21 Jan 04 - 05:01 PM Should our Folk club Be non Smoking? Chorus Should our Folk club Be non Smoking? by and by Lord bye and bye or should the blue smoke go on curling to the sky, Lord, to the Sky I was standing in the Folk club Gazing into the thick fog When I saw a smoker leaving He was looking for the bog And I heard the Singer mutter "All this smoke is living hell And performing has me coughing And it makes my clothing smell" So they put it to the members Should no smoking be allowed "Would we get few more singers Would we pull a bigger crowd" And the talked all round about it Bans will frighten folks away And without them it will fold up And this club will've had its day and some others said theres many Who cant stand the awful smell And are sick to death inhaling your fags and Cigars as well So our club is now no smoking Theres no cigarettes at all If you want to have a drag now step outside behind the wall © Micca Patterson |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 21 Jan 04 - 05:03 PM I have already said that I think that arguments about car polution or the bigger issues are spurious here so I will not repeat myself. As to the points raised about me trying and loosing, fair enough. I will be able to go to smoke free pubs and clubs eventialy, even in the backwaters of Salford! So it is only a temporary set back. I also agree wholeheartedly that smokers do need a place to go. Agreed. No dispute at all. Nor do I dispute that you can't in all fairness go to a place where people go to smoke and demand they make the place non-smoking. I do however dispute that a folk club is "a place where people go to smoke". It isn't! A folk club is place to go to play and/or listen to folk music! For a folk musician to justify that people with breathing difficulties should be denied the right to attend ANY folk club, to my mind at least, completely beggars belief! Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: GUEST,Peter from Essex Date: 21 Jan 04 - 05:09 PM I have never heard of a guest artist insisting that the club permits smoking. Quite a few insist on non-smoking. Most members of the public will expect anything in concert format to be non-smoking and won't have a problem with a smoking ban. The OP was about clubs not bar sessions. If you are in the bar then its down to the landlord, end of story. |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: Clinton Hammond Date: 21 Jan 04 - 05:24 PM "I have never heard of a guest artist insisting that the club permits smoking" To my knowledge John Prine smokes EVERYWHERE he plays. But no one in the audience is allowed.... |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: John Routledge Date: 21 Jan 04 - 06:09 PM Exactlt DtG If I opened a Smoking Club in the back room of a pub I wouldn't be too happy if a quarter of the members started playing instruments and singing :0) |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: GUEST Date: 21 Jan 04 - 06:15 PM To my knowledge John Prine smokes EVERYWHERE he plays. But no one in the audience is allowed...." John had a bout with throat cancer in 1995, a consequence of smoking, of course, and has not smoked since. |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: kendall Date: 21 Jan 04 - 06:16 PM Comparing smoking in a crowded room to driving a car is really over the top. Logic and addiction will never agree. 75% of us don't smoke, 25% do you can handle the math. |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: Clinton Hammond Date: 21 Jan 04 - 06:22 PM " John had a bout with throat cancer in 1995" Fair nuff that... See... learn something new everyday.... :-) |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: GUEST Date: 21 Jan 04 - 06:29 PM Never drive a car in a crowded room....that's just plain dangerous. |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: greg stephens Date: 21 Jan 04 - 06:38 PM Come off it, dave the Gnome. I didnt say people go to folk clubs to smoke. I specifically agreed that folk clubs should become no-smoking. I just said it's not fair for non-smokers to go into places where people do go to smoke, and tell them not to. I was very obviously not talking about folk clubs, where people go to listen to singing,primarily. I was referring to the Jolly Potters on Hartshill, where people sit in the bar and smoke and drink. That's what people do there. And I dont intend to spend my energy trying to force them to stop, however bad it is for them. They can decide in their own good time. |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: Joybell Date: 21 Jan 04 - 06:53 PM Nothing I can add. It's all been said. Briefly though. I've breathed second-hand smoke all my working life. I've been tolerant and good natured about the escalating effects it has had on me as I got older. If I breathe any smoke at all now I experience attacks of life-threatening asthma. There is no doubt that second-hand smoke brought me to this point. Breathing is not something about which we have any choice. Smoking or not smoking around other people is. Joy |
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Subject: RE: Should our folk club be non smoking? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Jan 04 - 07:35 PM How about a compromise? Just ban tobacco smoking... |
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