 sj |
||
|
||
Martha Stewart found Guilty
|
|
|
Subject: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: InOBU Date: 05 Mar 04 - 03:05 PM It is just coming over the TV live.... SELL YOUR STOCK IN K-MART! |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Clinton Hammond Date: 05 Mar 04 - 03:15 PM Big fat hairy deal.... |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Stilly River Sage Date: 05 Mar 04 - 03:17 PM No, don't sell your stock in K-Mart. Scratch your head and wonder how in hell the scuzballs at Enron and Tyco and Worldcom and such are still out walking around for major offenses against thousands of their employees who lost their retirement and often much more, and then wonder how it is they managed to stack the deck against Martha for what amounts to something that she should get a fine for. The news is saying a "prison term is likely." Appeal Appeal Appeal, Martha! The American Justice system would put non-violent otherwise harmless people in prison to do what? "Set an example?" Get real. SRS |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Mar 04 - 03:18 PM As if I had stock in K-Mart... |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: InOBU Date: 05 Mar 04 - 03:19 PM No, this is huge, Clinton! For example, is she going to broadcast from the jail? How to dress up your cell with things you find in jail, making wall hangings out of bread, its a good thing... I expect folk songs to follow! |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: InOBU Date: 05 Mar 04 - 03:21 PM Actually SRS, as right as you are, folks who worked for her can tell you that this behavior is typical of her rather selfish way of looking at the world. I wish her well, and wish bigger fish would be held to task, like the bUsh babies in the S&L scam... but, well, let's not make a saint of the poor thing. Cheers Larry |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Peace Date: 05 Mar 04 - 03:23 PM Hey, Thomas the Rhymer: Condolences. Bruce M |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: dianavan Date: 05 Mar 04 - 03:45 PM How much money are we talking about anyway? I think what she did was very small potatoes compared to what the big boys do on a daily basis. She's being scapegoated for being an uppity female. Don't get me wrong. I'm not a fan. But why single her out when there are so many other fish to fry? d |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: InOBU Date: 05 Mar 04 - 03:50 PM Well... she IS going to appeal, small amount of money, which does not really matter, it is about intent to steal money from other investors by using inside info to cut and run and let the little guys in the stock pay the price of a falling value. Cheers Larry |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: GUEST,petr Date: 05 Mar 04 - 03:52 PM thats exactly right, Dianavan theyre going after Martha Stewart - but not the Ken Lay and his enron buddies, worldcom and all the other bastards. dont forget Bush himself dumped half a million of some stock a few years ago one day before it tanked. |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: EBarnacle Date: 05 Mar 04 - 04:08 PM The people has spoken... but they mumble and stand in the corner. |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Irish sergeant Date: 05 Mar 04 - 04:16 PM Better they should get after Dick Cheney's buddies in Enron and Haliburton Bruce, may I ask where you're from? just curious, (My Brother is also named Bruce and our last name is MacMillan. Kindest regards, Neil |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Peace Date: 05 Mar 04 - 04:20 PM It ain't an either/or thing. She has been declared guilty for stuff that isn't good. So, that's that. However, the other questions are legit. Why DO so many other crooks get away with it? The tone of some posts above is that unless you convicet from the top down, it ain't fair. It is fair that she has been found guilty. That's what trials are for. But it would be fair also if some other people were found guilty. |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: jeffp Date: 05 Mar 04 - 04:31 PM By selling stock that she knew from inside information would sharply decrease in value, she essentially defrauded whoever bought that stock from her. |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: pdq Date: 05 Mar 04 - 04:49 PM jeffp...well put! Please think about the people who bought the stock in good faith and lost a bundle. They are working people, retirees, Union members, poor and rich alike. How would you feel if 30% of your pension fund was invested in that stock. You would feel exactly the same as the suckers who were cheated by Enron. |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: JohnInKansas Date: 05 Mar 04 - 05:02 PM There's a slightly cynical, but quite appropriate, "mantra" in the legal profession that says that you can't pass a law that prevents something from happening. All the law can do is state "how much it's gonna cost you to do it." From all the information (extracted from amongst hoopla and hysteria) it appears that poor Martha did do something for which it was appropriate that she be charged. The jury has agreed. As brucie says, "that's that." While the charges were apparently appropriate, I find it objectionable that the Justice Department did apparently try to trade on her "notoriety" to make a public spectacle of the trial. The media "blood frenzy" was even worse, but it's what happens now. Of course, even after a conviction, there's still the "sentencing" to be determined. For a case like Martha's, this should be pretty routine, but in all likelihood will not be. We have a couple of local thieves who were similarly convicted some time ago. One, whose conviction was more than two years ago (after a two year trial), has just received his seventh postponement of sentencing, and will probably manage to delay it until they can make a case for "time served" when it finally comes up. (He's "serving time" by continuing pretty much business as usual?) Of course, he has been paying(?) those lawyers for four years now, and the guy who "abetted" his crime is in jail so he's lost atleast one source of income... But hey - since they got rid of the lions at the Collesium, it's the only spectacle in town. John |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Charley Noble Date: 05 Mar 04 - 05:12 PM I seem to recall that Martha made over $50,000 selling when she did, and saved much more after the stock plummeted. That's more than enough to my mind to put her away for taking advantage of "insider trading." No more smirks from Martha. Sure, there are bigger fish in the sea and I hope they get what they deserve as well. Charley Noble |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: freightdawg Date: 05 Mar 04 - 06:44 PM Already posted to the other Martha thread. I'm stunned that the jury convicted. I hope that this verdict does send a message that the Feds will go after anyone who rips off their stockholders and others. From what I've heard there are convictions, or at least plea bargains, in the Enron, Global Crossing, etc, cases. The big boys have yet to put on orange jumpsuits, but as the little fish turn belly up they will only be too happy to share their new living quarters. The major problem with the really big boys (Ken Lay, etc) is that they have insulated themselves with so many layers of "plausible deniability" that it takes a snitch to blow up the ring. I hope they all rot in prison - maybe they can get decorating ideas from Martha. Now that I've mixed enough metaphors to make my own head hurt, I'll just quit growling and go lay down in the corner. Freightdawg |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: GUEST,sorefingers Date: 05 Mar 04 - 07:06 PM Jealousy finds profit guilty for being there! What a bunch of trash heads! When Pastors pay liars for lies and threats, when cronies walk with old folks savings/retirement, when lies thieves and more liars rule the roost, then the likes of Soros, Murdoch and a few more blood suckers are rubbing their hands and salivating about the rich pickings to be had, ie your last few bucks! Waken up. If anybody and I mean anybody had been in her position on the day they would have done the same thing! And what she did is NOT against the law in most countries anyway, it is regarded as legitimate business practice. They did to her what they sucessfully did to Bill Clinton - scared her into doing something trivial and then punisher her for that. Shame shame shame on it! |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Jim Dixon Date: 05 Mar 04 - 07:53 PM "The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet." – Damon Runyon "Juries are not always right, but that's the way to bet." – me. However, if the verdict seems unfair, it may be the fault of the law, not the jury. It used to be you could be convicted of lying (perjury) only if you were under oath. That was the whole point of making people take oaths before giving testimony. I think there was a recent change in the law that made it a crime to lie to any government official, even if you're not under oath, even if you haven't been given any warning that you're under investigation, even if what you're lying about isn't relevant to what is being investigated. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. And in this case, I hope I am wrong. And if I'm right, isn't that kind of scary? |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Thomas the Rhymer Date: 05 Mar 04 - 09:03 PM Oh, unfathomable grief, this misery's moment... bum bum bum... Martha my dear though I spend my days in conversation Please Remember me Martha my love Don't forget me Martha my dear Hold your head up you silly girl look what you've done When you find yourself in the thick of it Help yourself to a bit of what is all around you Silly Girl. Take a good look around you Take a good look you're bound to see That you and me were meant to be for each other Silly girl. Hold your hand out you silly girl see what you've done When you find yourself in the thick of it Help yourself to a bit of what is all around you Silly girl. Martha my dear you have always been my inspiration Please Be good to me Martha my love Don't forget me Martha my dear. ttr |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: GUEST Date: 05 Mar 04 - 09:31 PM I see, because some other scum got away with it Martha should too? |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: GUEST,sorefingers Date: 05 Mar 04 - 11:31 PM Got away with what? She did what the average trader does everyday, sold on a tip. |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: GUEST,Johnny in OKC Date: 06 Mar 04 - 12:08 AM Read the verdict again. They didn't charge her with insider trading. That charge was dismissed. They found her guilty of lying to the Feds, covering up. But I'll eat a bug for every day she spends in jail. Johnny in OKC |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Greg F. Date: 06 Mar 04 - 09:04 AM Now, if she'd lied about consensual sex, on the other hand.... Another spoiled, rich, obnoxious brat caught with a hand in the cookie jar. Sympathy? Puh-leeze! |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: GUEST,sorefingers Date: 06 Mar 04 - 10:15 AM Ok OKC and Greg. The fact remains that what she did is legal in 99% of exchanges all around the globe. Now I suspect the dollar will fall the rest of the way into the trash as foreign agencies pull out of Wall Street. |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 06 Mar 04 - 10:58 AM INOBU said (and others more or less echoed): Well... she IS going to appeal, small amount of money, which does not really matter, it is about intent to steal money from other investors by using inside info to cut and run and let the little guys in the stock pay the price of a falling value. Au contraire, mon frere! She was NOT charged with insider trading or stock fraud. Frankly, I don't think they could have made that stick. She was charged with the attempt to cover up, the attempted destruction of evidence, that kind of thing. I think that if she hadn't done that she would have got off, either entirely or nearly so. Dave Oesterreich |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Charley Noble Date: 06 Mar 04 - 11:09 AM Here's a follow-up on a Maine experience with Martha that I mentioned above. In today's Portland Press Herald there's an article about the Bar Harbor "limousine driver whose close encounter with Stewart went sour" who organized a "conviction party" at the Holiday Inn in Ellsworth. "The malicious merriment at the expense of the diva of design was organized by Richard Anderson, who, as Stewart fans and foes will recall, made fast enemies with Stewart in August 2000. Anderson, a limousine driver, claims Stewart held him captive in her driveway (blocking his escape with her SUV) when he and the six-women bachelorette party he was chauffering made a wrong turn in Stewart's swanky Seal Harbor neighborhood...'It's her attitude,' said Anderson. 'She thinks she's different than everybody else. She thinks she's better than everybody else. She's not very well-liked up this way.'" There's probably enough good lines in this story for some more verses, TTR. Do you suppose she will ever express remorse for her actions, which as a former stockbroker she should have known were illegal? No doubt she is remorseful that she was caught and convicted but that is not the same thing. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Amos Date: 06 Mar 04 - 12:25 PM I did NOT have sex with that stock issue... Hmmm.... |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Thomas the Rhymer Date: 06 Mar 04 - 12:42 PM "'It's her attitude,' said Anderson. 'She thinks she's different than everybody else. She thinks she's better than everybody else. She's not very well-liked up this way.'" Now, where have I heard that before...? When I dragged my sorry ass BMW from the lot, for a paltry sum, and about a thousand follow up calls... I had to have it towed to my house. After getting it to run at all, I found that the wheels hit the fenders, and it would start to slide sideways on a straight crowned road, if it rained... scary indeed. I was the laughing stock of the neighborhood... "what an idiot"... throwing his money away... wasting his time... a millionaire couldn't afford to fix that pile of sh-t... But when I (somewhat) repaired it by myself... with elbow grease, used parts, and copious amounts of cursing... and drove it every day... The gossip changed. I became a 'money laundering' co-conspirator... a spoilt silver spooned sympathizer to the countryclub domination commitee... Undoubtedly a snob... A 'Grand Larceny' sweepstakes winner... All manner of "mean nasty terrible things..." I don't know... Write and perform a decent song... and about ten percent of the audience will hate you for it... "prima donna" emerges from the ashes of a dork... ;^) Clearly with scarcely any social graces whatsoever, ttr |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Charley Noble Date: 06 Mar 04 - 07:00 PM Speaking of amazing grace, TTR: Amazing gauche, how tart the sound, That served a wench like me, I once was free but now I'm bound, For the penitentiary! Come on, Amos, let's get into the spirit of this tragedy! Cheerily, Charley Noble |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Amos Date: 06 Mar 04 - 07:04 PM "Farewell Martha Stewart, your rock-bound hide May your jail cell blue and ochre be.... With fine finials on the corners of the cot And a faux-stress finish on the WC..." |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Thomas the Rhymer Date: 06 Mar 04 - 07:22 PM Boo hoo for you two... That's my girl you're messin' with! ;^) Sorry guys... I'm not going to put her down... She worked hard to get where she was. I'm strong of feeling on this one. I've got a sense that there's much more than 'meets the eye'. Snickering up yer coat sleeve doesn't make you look particularly keen... I am sad that she has gone so head on into business... I'm hoping this little courtly occasion will help her to reset her priorities... Imagine what she could do for kids! ttr |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Chief Chaos Date: 06 Mar 04 - 07:51 PM I agree that anybody in her shoes would probably do the same. I had thought that insider trading was limited to the purchase or sale of stock by someone inside the company (thus the term "insider"). Live and learn. THe thing about lying to the investigator has been around for years. If you are being asked a question by a federal agent and you are acting in an official capacity, you can be sharged with "Making a flase official statement" which in plain english would be lying. After hearing about both Bush's sale of his stock before one of his company's went belly up and some of the trades made by Chaney that amount to the same thing (not to mention how he claims not to be working for Haliburton when everyone knows he's pulling in pension from them) I hope that somebody somewhere uses it against them. And to think a $47K loss by Clinton was enough to launch an investigation that after $70M netted him for lying before Congress about consensual sex! Oy! |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Charley Noble Date: 06 Mar 04 - 08:04 PM Amos- I knew you could come up with something if you applied yourself. Yes, I am indulging in mean-spirited behavior and with respect to an icon like Martha it's fun! Sorry for your loss, Thomas. Cheerily, Charley Ignoble |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Thomas the Rhymer Date: 06 Mar 04 - 08:29 PM Help yourself to the icon, Charley... It's all yours; knock yerself out!! ;^) I'ts Martha I want... Can't you see it now? The run down farm house... the newlyweds (us)... hard at work, breathing new life into the old tried and true scenario... coordinating colors, shapes and living spaces into a beatifully articulate feng-shui of luscious living...? Well... one can dream now can't one? ttr |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: GUEST Date: 06 Mar 04 - 08:42 PM When Martha Stewart went IPO, I thought investing in a TV image was sheer stupidity. It'd be like investing in Michael Jackson, or Jimmy Swaggart, or anyone whose reputation could wind up in the dumpster on any given day. It's risky to invest in stock whose value depends on a person's integrity. |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Amos Date: 06 Mar 04 - 09:23 PM Aw, Thomas, I yam sorry. It isn't the lydie I am mocking but the foppery of the position into which she has manuvered herself. If she asks me, I will recommend that she run away with you to Bucks County. Can't be fairer than that! A |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: catspaw49 Date: 06 Mar 04 - 09:48 PM And try not to mention BMW and Martha Stewart in the same breath. They exist at opposite ends of the Integrity Spectrum! Heidi, my 528e, is extremely insulted and expects an immediate, sincere, apology. Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Thomas the Rhymer Date: 06 Mar 04 - 10:10 PM Not a chance Heidi... Just cause you're reliable, great looking, and handle fantasticly... and you're comfortable, really well designed, totally rebuildable and fast as hell... You'll never be a Stuart... you're a car. Martha's got ya beat on that one, sweety... Sorry spaw... 'ats how it is. ttr |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: catspaw49 Date: 06 Mar 04 - 10:36 PM I read your post to her out in the garage and she is very pleased with your understanding of her lineage and as she is aging nicely she can tell you are a fine fellow with an appreciation of her finer points as well. She also says she is happy to be an automobile as she and her Bavarian sisters believe that to be a far higher calling than being a mere human of any name. Spaw (& Heidi) |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Thomas the Rhymer Date: 06 Mar 04 - 11:38 PM No doubt... I have to ask Hilda very nicely in the morning if she would be inclined to take me to work... and after many appologies for the mud I park her in, and bugs I haven't gotten around to washing off... and promising to test her cornering abilities shamelessly... and park her 'nose out'... and smile knowingly with all her sisters' caretakers... she breathes her fire proudly, and we go together. We do have a 'don't ask, don't tell' policy about the replacement parts... I just don't have the nerve to tell her that it's really a 'wrecking yard' we go to... I'm pretty sure she thinks its the car hospital, and I'm an intern or something... ttr |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: catspaw49 Date: 07 Mar 04 - 12:11 AM It's a good policy Thomas. I don't think they really notice the source so long as they know you care. Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Blackcatter Date: 07 Mar 04 - 05:06 PM Interesting isn't it that you can be punished for covering something up for which they can't find a way to punish you. I recently had contact with a fellow church member who shoplifted $5.00 worth of food from the local grocery. He was told by the security guad who caught him that there are now 3 levels of charges possible during a shoplifting escapade. From minimal to worst: If you are stopped inside the store but past the check out "with the intention to leave the store with the items) that is one crime. Walking out the door is an additional level of crime. Add to that resisting arrest by the security people (not the police) is another lever. That includes anything other than immediately surrendering when the peorson comes up to you and stops you (in or out of the store). The police love to heap loads of chages on you in order to almost force you to enter a plea so that the courts won't be bothered by your life. Sheesh. |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: JenEllen Date: 08 Mar 04 - 12:14 PM Oh, don't fret, TTR. Look what prison time did for folks like Leadbelly, or Merle Haggard, or the Blues Brothers... She may come out of this even better than she went in. |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: catspaw49 Date: 08 Mar 04 - 12:51 PM Geeziz JE....What a hideous thought! I tell ya', if she releases an album titled, "Martha Does The Best of Leadbelly," I'm getting a rifle...... Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Amos Date: 08 Mar 04 - 01:06 PM Just imagine what she could do to a 12-string with some of that spray-on faux distress paint and a little piece of cotton batting. The mind boggles! A |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: harpgirl Date: 08 Mar 04 - 11:52 PM I was disappointed in this verdict. I asked my 80 year old Republican ex-stockbroker father ("The Navigator" on Mudcat)what he thought and he agreed with me that it was a minor, minor issue and that it was a shame they hadn't gone after Kenneth Lay properly yet for what he did. When it comes to white collar crime, he agreed that Martha was just not in the same league as Kenneth Lay. It surprised me but then my father is pretty darn smart. harp |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Charley Noble Date: 09 Mar 04 - 12:52 PM Harp- Saving $52,000 on insider information from one's broker may not be millions but it's still a major crime and I'm pleased she and her broker were convicted. I'm still not sure if her only recognized crimes were her attempts to cover up her tracks and lying to investigators. Still, I find it very difficult to empathize with her current situation. She was ripping off a system that she was extremely familar with, being a former stockbroker and a member of the Stock Exchange board. She should be held to a high standard. And let's go after the rest of the rip-off artists. Charley Noble |
|
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty From: Stilly River Sage Date: 09 Mar 04 - 01:39 PM The charges of insider trading were dropped before the trial, Charley. She wasn't found guilty of that. And the charge that she was somehow tampering with the value of her own stock by protesting her innocence was dropped by the judge. What's left? Apparently she didn't (or couldn't) take the fifth when answering questions of the investigators. They found her guilty of not cooperating with the investigation. That's a big difference. SRS |
| Share Thread: |
