BS: They said I couldn't

Subject: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 02:23 PM

Back when I was in college, I was having a lot of trouble keeping my head above water. I was getting terrible grades and ended up flunking out at the end of my sophomore year. Worse yet, I didn't believe that I was "college material." No one in my family went to college, and I thought that I'd end up working at the Fisher Body plant in my hometown, like most of my other friends from high school.
When I was allowed back in school on probation, I took a Geology course and really liked it, so I went to talk with my professor. I told him I wanted to major in Geology, and go on to graduate school.
At that point, I didn't even have a C average, and I needed a B average to get into graduate school. The professor just laughed when I told him, and said "Rasmussen, you haven't got the chance of a snowball in Hell of getting into graduate school." I just stared at him, gritted my teeth and said,"not only will I get into graduate school, but you're going to be my major professor." I didn't appreciate being told that I couldn't do it. Like everyone else, I'd been told off and on all of my life that I couldn't do one thing or another. Sometimes it turned out that I couldn't. But many times, being told I couldn't just made me more determined to prove that I could, and I DID! That makes me wonder how many lives are short-circuited because someone told them that they couldn't do something.

Maybe someone is telling you right now that you can't do something that you want to do... that you're stupid to even try. I know that everyone in here has been told that they couldn't do something that they ended doing, and doing well.

Tell me about it.

By the way, I got straight A's my last two years of undergraduate school and got into graduate school on a scholarship. Stuff you're "no chance!"

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Metchosin
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 03:13 PM

I failed typing when I was in high school. Nobody ever failed typing back then, especially females. The typing teacher commented, "You're not very good with your hands, are you!", while watching me get my fingers stuck between the keys during a typing test.

I always thought of the comment and thought "Screw you!" when a few years later, I regularly did what was called "pereneal sections" of nematodes under a microscope. The procedure involved removing the nematode's vulva and anus with a scalpel and cleaning the little section cuticle to remove eggs and extraneous debris with a "needle" made made from one of my eyebrows and then processing and mounting the "pereneal sections" on slides.

It did require a considerable amount of manual dexterity and I got very good at it. Most nematodes are very, very tiny, hardly visible to the naked eye and their naughty bits are even smaller.

A lot of the stuff I've done in my life and mastered was because someone told me I couldn't do it.

Unfortunately, typing is one area where I still fail misereably, although at least with a keyboard on a computer, there's no room to jam my fingers between the keys.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: flattop
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 03:27 PM

Now that you two are doing these things in spite of other peoples' negativity, do you enjoy them. Nematode's anuses don't sound exciting to me, quite the opposite. I've never seen them in a glossy magazine but I can't imagine them being attractive.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 03:31 PM

My son Gideon was told by his first grade teacher that he'd never be able to write legibly, and he might as well accept it and learn to type. She gave us the same advice at a parent-teacher conference. By the time he was in fifth grade, his handwriting was much better than his first grade teacher's and he proved to be particularly talented at tasks that required fine motor skills like you, Metchosin.

I think "Screw you!" is a variant of "Stuff it!.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 03:33 PM

flattop: Yes, I thoroughly enjoyed getting my enducation and teaching in college. My education led me on to become Director of a large Museum and Nature Center, where I also ran a folk concert series for 27 years.

I guess you could safely say that I enjoyed it.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 03:43 PM

I was, in high school, a member of the "Zero Club." This named by one of the teachers, who felt that the member would never amount to more than a zero in life.

Let's see: I have one MS degree and more than enough education for a second. Another member (now deceased) had a master's in English lit. Another holds a pretty responsible job in Silicon Valley. Yet another worked for the Metropolitan Opera prior to his acceptance into medical school -- unfortunately, he died just before he was to have started.

Then there's my niece Elizabeth: she's graduating next month with a degree in a combined Biology/Chemistry program and has been offered a fellowship at the U. of Iowa (tuition and fees plus $21,000/year) -- she was told by her high school vocational counselor that if she shouldn't feel badly if she didn't make it through her first year of college, because "lots of girls don't." Her sister -- a college sophomore with a grade point average of 4.0 -- was told by the same man that she "probably wasn't smart enough" for college work.

In my undergrad days I have a lousy, really lousy, semester. The academic dean told me I was on academic probation and if I didn't do a little better I'd be out at the end of the next semester. I told him I'd be in the Honors Program at the end of the next semester. To his GREAT surprise, I was.

Don't tell people that they can't do something. It's liable to piss them off enough for them to far outstrip you.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Megan L
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 04:30 PM

Form many years I taught Youth Trainees first aid. I used to get really wild when the head of the training centre called them "no hopers" I always told them everyone is good at something sometime you just got to spend time trying to find what it is. All some of these young people needed was someone to believe in them enough to give them the confidence to try.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 04:48 PM

Oh this is all so inspirational.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: jacqui.c
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 05:41 PM

Martin - I agree, this IS inspirational. Too many people try to discourage others for one reason or another. I've been told a number of times in my life that I couldn't do something and, invariably I've managed to do it. Even my parents were discouraging. Now, I'll at least try to succeed at something new rather than take someone else's opinion and give up.

How many people in this world have been put off the things they want to do due to the pessimistic atitude of others? Too many I'll bet. Maybe we should be saying get stuffed a bit more often - I know that, as my kids were growing up I tried to give them confidence in their own abilities and they've turned out well. Now they have children who will be given the same message and will hopefully grow up with the same confidence.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 05:46 PM

The "you don't have a hope" message is not that serious--
EXCEPT when you are the one telling it to yourself.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 05:51 PM

That's fine for you if it's inspirational.

Really, if that's what you surf the web for, that's your thing.

I just have somewhat of a hard time grasping getting my inspiration or therapy if needed from a web forum.

Have you considered ever talking to professionals or religious leaders in a real life situation if you feel this need? Do you have the time?

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 05:58 PM

Approx. 10 years ago I was unable to get into Officer Candidate School (OCS) (for those that are not from a military background it is a way of progressing from the enlisted ranks to the officer's corps) because a commander decided I was not "officer material". He was proud of the fact that he had only sent three people to OCS in his entire career. This came after several commands had recommended that I apply. How is it that one asshole can upset the whole applecart? Anyway, he had his way in the end because before he left the command I was at I went over the age limit for OCS.

I am now in a position to teach and mold people, I may not think they have the right stuff but at least I give them a chance to prove me wrong. Then I congratulate them! Don't get in the way!

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 06:06 PM

For those of you who get stagefright and can't pee at a rwo of urinals, you can do it!

I know you can! Keep trying!

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 06:21 PM

You're right, Uncle DaveO: A lot of times doors stay closed in our lives because we don't believe we can do something. Too often, that's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 07:06 PM

Maybe 20 years ago now, I went to an ophthamologist who was amazed at the difference between the lenses of my glasses. Seems I had amblyopia when I was young, before they realized how simple it was to cure, and so my left eye was very, very much weaker than my right.

He said that he could give me a prescription similar to what I had, one which brought the left eye up to where it would work with the right and wouldn't cause problems with my brain integrating the images. Or...he could give me a prescription that would bring my vision as close to 20/20 as possible, but I might have significant trouble with image integration.

I said, Hell, let's try it. We did.

I had a couple of days of odd things, but my vision (with glasses) is damned near 20/20. Every ophthamologist since has been amazed at my vision correction and the lack of problems I've had.

Now I keep wanting to try to cure the old amblyopia, but I keep getting told that I'm way, way, too old.

Anyway, try it. All you can do is fail. Then try it again, because you might win the second time.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 07:15 PM

That's real good to read, Rapaire. There are enough instances of wrong diagnoses/inexplicable healings in medical records to pave a road from here to the moon.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 07:38 PM

A couple of things. One of them I wrote up over HERE. Having just reread some of it, it occurred to me that sometimes it is oneself who puts on the limitations and it takes someone else to give you a good swift kick in the butt. But there are other times when you know what you want to do and you can do it, but it requires making an end-run around the idiots of the world.

In 1955 and 56, I spent close to a year and a half in a hospital in Denver. I wasn't sick; I was undergoing physical therapy and some other treatments to alleviate the aftereffects of having polio when I was two. When I wasn't being exercised or massaged or hydrotherapized, there wasn't all that much to do, so fortunately I'd brought my guitar with me, along with a stack of classic guitar instruction manuals and song books. I spent most of my spare time practicing and learning songs, and I also had a chance to entertain a bit around the hospital. I loved doing it and people seemed to love having me do it. Ultimately, I decided that I wanted to make a career of folk singing, like Burl Ives or Richard Dyer-Bennet. This was before the onset of the Great Folk Scare, so (oxymoron alert!) "professional folk singers" were not yet the drug on the market that they became a few years later. I was aware that my knowledge of music was pretty minimal, and if I wanted to be a professional musician, especially a concert performer, I had better learn something about the field I wanted to enter. I decided that when I returned to Seattle, I would enroll in the University of Washington School of Music and learn music theory, harmony, music literature, the whole bundle.

Conceive my frustration, disgust, and dismay when I ran into a brick wall when I tried to enroll. I had a voice teacher that I was happy with and since the U. W. School of Music didn't require you to take private lessons at the U, that should be okay. And I also had an excellent classic guitar teacher, plus Walt Robertson and a couple of other people to keep me up on folk guitar techniques, so I was okay in that department. That wasn't the problem.

When I was filling out the form, one of the questions had to do with which course of study I wanted to follow:   did I want to major in music education (become a music teacher in the public schools, or a music teacher in general), or did I wish to major in performance. I checked "Performance." The next question had to do with "performing on what?" If I said "voice," it would not be required, but I would be under pressure to take lessons from one of the staff teachers, so I wrote in "classic guitar." When the woman behind the counter looked at it, one would have thought that I had written down "tissue paper and comb."

"But we don't have that," she said. I allowed as how I knew they didn't have any classic guitar teachers on the staff (incidentally, now, almost fifty years later, they do—an excellent department under Steven Novacek), but since I was taking lessons on the outside, that would be no problem. What I wanted was to learn music theory, etc. "No, you don't understand," she said. "We don't recognize the guitar as a serious field of study." I pointed out that Andrés Segovia had played a concert at Meany Hall on campus not more than six months before. We beat that one around for several minutes while we both got a bit hot under the collar, but since she had The Power, she folded up my application neatly and dropped it into the waste basket. End of discussion!

Since I was in my mid-twenties at the time, I didn't generally run to my mother with my problems anymore, but since she was especially interested in my musical ambitions (she was a fan of Richard Dyer-Bennet and had met him once), I told her what had occurred when I tried to enroll. Steam started pouring out of her ears, and when that happens, lookout!! She had connections I didn't even know about. She told a friend of hers whom she knew was acquainted with a music professor at the U. of W. My mother's friend, in turn, told the professor what had happened. The professor said that he wanted to meet me.

My mom and I went to her friend's house one afternoon where I met the music professor. It turned out that it was John Verrall who, at the time, was a composer in residence, and packed a fair amount of clout in the School of Music. We talked, and I played and sang some. He knew little about the guitar, but was intrigued. He thought it would be an interesting instrument to compose for. And he was particularly fond of folk songs. "Outwardly simple and naïve," he said, "but with examination, far more subtle and complex than they first appear." He asked me my ambitions, and we discussed the matter for awhile. Finally, he said, "It was ridiculous to have refused your application. You would be a real asset to have as a student. I'll be in touch."

About a week later, he phoned and told me that he had arranged an audition for me with Dr. Stanley Chappell, the head of the department. As a result of this, I wound up being the first "folk singer" or "classic guitarist" or "singer-guitarist" admitted to the U. of W. School of Music. It wasn't long after this that I started doing a television series entitled "Ballads and Books" on the local educational channel. Lots of singing jobs came as a result of that, and since one thing leads to another, I was off and running.

The first year at the U. of W. School of Music was fine. But during my second year, I started getting a load of crap from a couple of faculty members and a stuffy student or two: "When are you going to stop messing around with those cowboy songs and settle down to something serious?" [I am reminded that after concretizing and recording for well over thirty years, after a concert, someone said to Jean Redpath, "You have such a lovely voice. Have you ever thought of doing something with it?"] This was why I dropped out of the U. of W. School of Music and a few years later enrolled in the Cornish College of the Arts here in Seattle. Smaller classes, individual attention, excellent instruction; most of the faculty were working musicians. When I first approached Cornish about going there, Lockrem Johnson the head of the music department said, "No problem." They already had four classic guitarists as students there—applications rejected by the U. of W. "Happy to have them," he said. "We don't care if you want to play tissue paper and comb" [he actually said that!] "as long as you are serious about what you're doing."

If you really want to do something, sometimes you just have to be bull-headed about it. "Too stupid to quit."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 10:19 PM

I'm glad you didn't Don. When you have a gift, you have to use it.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 10:36 PM

At the risk of thread drift...

Don't ever get mothers pissed off. Ever. Evereverever, amen.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 10:52 PM

Great thread!

My story about Cornish is a little different, Don. It is an excellent example of discouragement, actually... When I interviewed with the head of the music dept. a couple of decades after your successes Don, I spoke my intentions clearly. I said that it was very important to me to persue vigorous music study and training, but that I was dead set on not learning to read or write music. His answer was... "why, are you better than everybody else?" With that answer, I just looked at him for a moment... and answered... "no... I guess I'm just approaching it differently". The conversation that continued was polite, but it was definitely on the wain...

The long silence that followed his original remark was the wave I surfed out his office door on... As I was leaving I turned and said ..."Sorry to bother you"...

And that was that. And my enjoyment of music has nothing to do with his opinions...
ttr

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: GUEST,An Ant
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 11:11 PM

I remember the time someone told me I couldn't lift a rubber-tree plant. By God! I showed them!

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: GUEST,A Ram
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 11:14 PM

You tell 'em about it, Ant! That's probably the same guy that told me I couldn't punch a hole in a dam. Hah! There ain't a damned dam been built I can't punch a hole in!

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: weerover
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 01:38 AM

Last week I met a delightful woman who left school with no educational qualifications. She apparently came from an area (and a family) where expectations were pretty low. When she was in her 30s high schools in the area started allowing adults to study with the kids and she went along and took some classes. Cutting a long story (much of which I don't know anyway) short, sho wrote a novel which not only got published but won a major literary award and she's now teaching creative writing at university.

wr.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 04:02 AM

I actually took this idea of negative encouragement to the next level when I was asked to speak to kids at several schools on Professional's Day. I was, I'm sure, supposed to go in there and wax lyrical about the acting profession, and instead, I told them all the things that made it one of the most frustrating, difficult, and unrewarding careers imaginable if one doesn't possess the following-Luck, Connections, and Talent-and in that order.I told them that only 1 percent of the people in the profession can actually make a living at it, and that they'd better get used to the word "no" coming their way with relentless frequency. I told them it was hard work, and often controlled by people who were ego-driven rather than creative minds...I told them it was easier and made more sense to consider acting on an amateur level with their local community theatre, and get a degree in something that would assure them financial security all their lives.

I went on in this fashion for the entire talk, and finally, as I watched their faces...some becoming disillusioned, some becoming confused, and some growing in determination-I ended by saying "And if after all of this information, you STILL know in you heart that you want to be an actor/actress because you HAVE to be...then you just MIGHT be the one person in this room to make it!

I think it had the desired effect...xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: jacqui.c
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 04:17 AM

Good one E - but that's just being realistic, not putting an individual down on a personal basis.

Previous threads are right about lack of self belief, but that has usually been engendered by negative comments from others, probably in early life.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 04:21 AM

Best story like those above that I've heard for a long time concerns one Kjell Inge Rokke, a Norwegian, whose teacher advised him that he should really concentrate on getting his driving licence, as all he would ever be good for, or achieve in life would be to earn his living as a taxi driver - Kjell Inge Rokke, I think is now either second, or third richest man in Norway. I would have loved to seen that teacher interviewed.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Metchosin
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 07:52 AM

Wow! I didn't know you could earn that much money in tips as a cabbie.

Flattop, you'd be surprised what interesting things you can determine from the patterns on a worm's bum. Some of them look like little smiling monkey faces, but I think only another worm would find them sexually gratifying. Hardcore Nematode Porn

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 08:38 AM

A guy I knew in submarines joined as a basic marine engineering mechanic, a 'stoker' probably the lowest of the low you can get as far as the RN is concerned. He managed to get into the RN on the basis of the RN entrance exam. Everyone thought he was a bit thick but he not only had a photographic memory but also the ability to apply what he saw.

He quickly rose from the basic level, through his Leading Hands rate to Petty Officer. He then managed to get the basic two O Levels needed to apply for SD, a commission. He did that and later got his degree, he nows holds the rank of a Commander (E).

Given the right impetus and people can do anything.

Maybe even Martin Gibson will be pleasant one day!

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 10:35 AM

One the most admired, respected and enjoyed folk singers in America, who everyone would know if I mentioned his name was told by the choir Director when he was a kid that he should just mouth the words, because he would never be able to sing. No one would recognize the name of the choir Director.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 04:19 PM

My apologies for thread drift, but I just gotta stick this in.

I don't know who you ran into at Cornish, Thomas, but if it was a couple of decades after I was there, it couldn't have been Lockrem Johnson. He left Cornish in 1969.

But I'm not sure what he would have said to you. Reading and writing music is pretty essential to any kind of institutional study of music. Much class instruction in music theory involves the teacher writing notes on the blackboard (in music department classrooms, staff lines are drawn permanently on the blackboards—painted on) and the students taking "notes" (literally) on manuscript paper. Assignments often involve writing chords, chord inversions, and chord progressions with smooth movement from note to note within the chord changes (not easy to do), or the teacher giving you a melody line and leaving you to fill in chords (there are no "right" chords, there are only chords that "work") or write a countermelody to it, or both. The more advanced the class, the more complex the music becomes. Other instruction involves going through, say, the score of a Beethoven string quartet, determining what Ludwig did, and trying to figure out why he did it that way (he "breaks the rules" a lot, but he does it for good reasons). For a musician in any field of music, this kind of study makes all kinds of light bulbs turn on. The point is not to teach you a whole bunch of rules you have to obey, it's to show you a whole range of possibilities that you probably wouldn't think of on your own. I can't imagine a music school anywhere that wouldn't consider being able to read music just as essential as a college English department would consider the ability to read essential to studying literature and/or learning to write short stories, novels, or poetry (as in rhyming).

This is not to say that one can't be a top-rate musician if one can't read music. One of the best (and best known) operatic basses of all time and a mainstay of the opera world some years back, Ezio Pinza (probably most famous for playing Emile de Becque in the stage production of "South Pacific"—Some Enchanted Evening), couldn't read music. It didn't inhibit his singing at all. Except that instead of being able to learn an operatic role or a popular song by picking up a score, reading it, and memorizing it, he had to be drilled by a voice coach until he had it memorized. That's doing it the hard way. Not to mention, the expensive way. The score to Mozart's Don Giovanni (one of the roles he was most famous for) costs a few bucks, but a voice coach charges by the hour, and it would take a whole lot of hours to learn the lead role by rote as he had to do. One is tempted to ask, "Why not learn to read music?" but I personally couldn't come up with a good answer for that. Perhaps you can. I'd honestly like to hear a good rationale for this.

Many jazz musicians don't work from written music at all, and I'll venture to say that the vast majority don't spend much time looking at scores. Being mainly improvisational, it just isn't that essential. But—most of the best jazz musicians do read music. For example, trumpet player Wynton Marsalis studied at Juilliard, and he can switch back and forth between jazz and classic with no problems at all—great at both. His thorough knowledge of music makes him highly versatile and good at whatever kind of music he turns his hand to.

I know that there are a fair number (probably more than any other field of music) of folk oriented musicians who not only avoid learning to read music, but are downright hostile to the idea. I think this comes from the feeling that if they learn to read music or if they learn anything about music theory, this will somehow force a lot of rules on them and limit what they can do, or inhibit their freedom of spirit, or otherwise somehow corrupt their purity as folk musicians. Nope. Doesn't work that way.

Granted, Doc Watson can't read music. Being blind, it isn't something he had much choice about. But he knows one helluva lot about music theory. In a workshop at the 1964 Berkeley Folk Festival, someone asked him how he can play fiddle tunes on the guitar so fast and clean. His response? "I practice scales at least a half-hour a day, every day." Looks of shock and horror!! Someone else asked him about a picking pattern he used on a particular song. As he tried to explain it, he said, "Well, it's a sort of arpeggio. 'Course," he added with a wry grin, "I'm not supposed to know words like that."

I've had guitar students that didn't want to learn to read music. I try to talk them into it, but if they're adamant, I teach them anyway, using chord diagrams and showing them stuff rather than using written music. But it's a whole lot more difficult to get ideas across. And here are a couple of biggies: they deny themselves the possibility of being able to learn songs from song books; and are often too afraid they're going to make some kind of horrible musical mistake to really try to experiment very much. So much for freedom of expression. Almost every question I have run into on Mudcat having to do with chords, scales, modes and such are answered in the first few chapters of a good text on music theory, but to understand it, you kinda have to be able to read the examples—in music notation.

Good musicians I have known who don't read music are good not because of their inability to read music, but in spite of it. And that includes folk musicians. Other than the sort of irrational fear that some folk musicians have of being "tainted," I can't really grasp the idea of not wanting to learn to read music.

But—whatever works for you. That's what matters. But I really would like to hear a good rationale for not being able to read music.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Deckman
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 04:53 PM

I'll throw in one example from my own life here. Some 15 or so years ago, I developed a potentially serious growth on the top of my foot. I had to search for a doctor that would take it on and I finally found one just out of med school. He was very cautious in his approach. After a lengthy surgery, he warned me that my backpacking and hiking days were most likely over. That just kinda ticked me off!

I started walking, moved onto easy jogging, and then serious running and conditioning. Six months later, I climbed Mt. Rainier. I ran into this same doctor this last Winter and reminded him of our mutual experience. He was delighted to remember me and said that he almost refused to do the surgery as it was risky. After I told him of my recovery, he gave me a HUG!!!! (He said that I made his day) CHEERS, Bob

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Once Famous
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 05:36 PM

This part of the Jerry inspirational hour has been brought to you by Preparation H.

Preparation H. The product that will help you with your hemmorroids.

If you want it to!

but you got to believe.

Remember, apply liberally and often. Putting your mind to it will get you that good feeling fast.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Deckman
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 05:56 PM

I've got a really good suggestion as to where you could put your tube of "Prep H". Bob

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 05:59 PM

Don... Many musicians don't read music. I've been told that the Beatles didn't read music. I have many reasons, but because I'm a bastet case at home with the flu today, I will only be able to present a few...

My 'gift' if you call it that, is innovation. And I do seem to be able to perform well under certain circumstances... I have no desire to teach music, and believe deeply in Plato's distrust of the 'Sophists'. For me, music is a personal thing,... that I share with others, and an emotional expression, and a chance to communocate poetic metaphor.

I do not believe that taking shortcuts will make me better at these things, and I view music notation in the general sense, as a shortcut. If I want to 'take up' a new genera... I steep myself in it, and eventually start to pick it up by ear.

Music is 'of the ears, and of the soul'... and the music I like best is played of the soul... and to be quite honest with you, Don... I don't see any particular connection between literacy in music notation, and musical excellence. This is not to discount symphonic arrangement and production, which I love... but is more effectively seen as and alternative motivational guidence system...

I play by ear mainly because I find that for me, the dearly earned, is far more authentic (and therefore more meaningful) than immediate noteworthiness... which, I might add, IMHO is responsible for the 'low soul' content of much in today's music.

Also, it makes no sense to me how an 'oral tradition' could be benefitted in any way by music notation... new thread anyone?

Flu bound and sickly, ttr

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Midchuck
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 06:31 PM

From the immortal Benny Hill -

To make Martin Gibson feel better:

They said that it could not be done,
He said "Just let me try."
They said, "Other men have tried and failed,"
He answered, "But not I."
They said, "It is impossible,"
He said, "There's no such word."
He closed his mind, he closed his heart...
To everything he heard.

He said, "Within the heart of man,
There is a tiny seed.
It grows until it blossoms,
It's called the will to succeed.
Its roots are strength, its stem is hope,
Its petals inspiration,
Its thorns protect its strong green leaves,
With grim determination.

"Its stamens are its skills
Which help to shape each plan,
For there's nothing in the universe
Beyond the scope of man."
They thought that it could not be done,
Some even said they knew it,
But he faced up to what could not be done...
And he couldn't bloody do it!

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 08:16 PM

Thomas, that's the best answer I've heard, and believe it or not, it does make sense to me.

When you say, "I don't see any particular connection between literacy in music notation, and musical excellence," I definitely agree there. Hanging around music schools some, I've met more than a couple of people who knew all there was to know about notes, but didn't seem to know a damned thing about music!

Music notation is, at best, a tool, a way to literally "take a look" at a piece of music and examine the way it's put together. It is a visual representation of the music, but it's certainly not the music itself. The true test is "how does it sound?" The ears, not the eyes. If you can achieve what you want to achieve without using that tool, then more power to you.

But I think this works only with individuals and small groups, e.g., bluegrass, or jazz combos. It's easy enough for a couple of guys to work out a decent arrangement without written music. Bob (Deckman) and I didn't write our "arrangements" out or try to work them out on paper, we just did them by ear, by guess, and "by gosh, it works!" However, I can't imagine trying to work out anything much larger, consisting of, say, six, seven, eight, or more people on up, without written music. A bunch of performers in a multi-performer concert or hootenanny all getting together at the end and singing This Land is Your Land as a "grand finale" is okay, but sometimes not everybody's all playing the same chords or singing the same verses (I've been there. I know!). Pretty messy.

Again, this doesn't mean that it can't be done. Example (since you mentioned The Beatles), Paul McCartney doesn't read music, but he did compose his Liverpool Oratorio. It was recorded by some pretty pricy talent: Kiri Te Kanawa, Sally Burgess, Jerry Hadley, and Willard White, along with the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra and Choir. The composition of the work consisted of McCartney standing by Paul Davis (who could read and write music), sitting at the piano with a pencil and a stack of manuscript paper within easy reach. McCartney would explain what he wanted, Davis would try it on the piano, McCartney would say, "No, that's not quite it. Try—" and Davis would try it again. When McCartney said "That's it!" Davis would write it down. Long and laborious. But in the end, out came the Liverpool Oratorio. I've heard it, and although I can't quite say that it's up there with the Verdi Requiem, it is an interesting and ambitious piece of music.

As far as music notation being of benefit to the oral tradition, it does help disseminate the songs. I've learned a lot of songs from song books. But if you're not already acquainted with the oral tradition, the notation doesn't really tell you how the song should be sung. If you are, though, song books are an invaluable resource. Another example where music notation falls short: trying to learn flamenco guitar. You just can't learn it from written music. You have to have someone show you. But—once someone shows you how to play an allegrias, a soleares, or a granadinas, you can learn new variations and falsetas from written music. You have to have the rhythms and the basic sounds in you ear before the written music makes any kind of sense.

I guess it depends a lot on what you want to do. And like I say, it's a handy tool.

Hunker down, stay warm, rest easy, and get well soon.

Regards,

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 09:27 PM

"I've been told that the Beatles didn't read music."

They couldn't sing, either.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Amos
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 10:04 PM

Peter:

LOL!!! Sometimes reality is the funniest possible answer!! :>)

A

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: GUEST,guest, ranger1
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 12:38 AM

I once asked an English teacher in high school, who I respected greatly, for a college recommendation. I worked hard in his class, paid attention and wrote some very good papers. I got a letter that, more or less, told the school I was applying to not to accept me. I was "a pleasant student who lacks the sharp edge" among other things. I was extremely discouraged and more or less said to hell with school for the rest of high school and then took some time off before I went to college, where I decided I would only take the barest number of English classes I had to, as I was obviously no good at it. At the small college I eventually went to, I had an English professor who was an absolute gem. He told me that I had great potential, even when my work was mediocre. To make a long story short, I got an A from a professor who was known for his tough grading policies and then went on to minor in midieval lit, not to mention making dean's list all four years, and doing extremely well in classes with notoriously tough professors. So there, Mr. Wallace! Take that!!!!!

I also went through a period when people kept asking me "when are you going to get a real job? You'll never make it working as a seasonal park ranger." My dad was the one who told me to stick with it, because it was something I loved and was good at. He told me I'd find a way to make it work. He also told me that if I quit he'd kick my a** from there to the Canadian border. He was right, I've found a way to make it work, and I'm starting my 18th season next Monday.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Metchosin
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 12:45 AM

And in the spirit of Benny Hill, Martin Gibson can't keep it in his case!*LOL*

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 02:44 AM

There is nothing that beats grim determination.

I barely graduated from high school. A worked in an office and at retail sales. Got married, had a couple kids and ended up as head of household. I realized I had to get some training or education. I wasn't even sure I could pass the English entrance exam although, at age 36, I could enter as a mature student.

Nobody supported me. Not even my parents. I was encouraged to get a minimum wage job and concentrate my energy on child rearing. Everybody doubted if I would have the stamina. Some probably doubted my overall ability. Everyone thought it was a desperate decision.

I passed the English entrance exam. Since I had no idea of my overall ability, I decided to just give it my all and see if I could pass the first year. Imagine my surprize when I made the Dean's list! After that, I realized I didn't have to get A's and A+ and that I could actually become a B student without too much effort and still have time for my kids. Where there's a will, there's a way!

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 03:32 AM

Not really thread-creep, but a different view of all this: To prove someone wrong upon being told "you can't do xx" is a perfectly normal human reaction, and has more than once been used to the good.

In the early 1830s, the fledgling Greek country had just come out of a "war of liberation" from the Ottoman Empire, but was also near starvation, as the usual cereal crops had not been tended properly through the years of fighting. The first King of the Greeks, Otto, new about potatoes - unknown in Greece - and thought they could save the day. He brought over a shipload to introduce the vegetable, but no Greek was interested in this funny looking thing.

So, he stored all potatoes in a warehouse, posted a nominal guard outside (instructed to turn a blind eye) and brought out an edict the "nobody was to touch the potatoes because they were reserved for aristocracy".

That was it - the warehouse emptied overnight.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 03:38 AM

Martin - I noticed that mudcatters were welcoming you back. Why?

You seem to want to rain on everybody's parade. What's the point? If all you have to contribute is negativity, put downs and insults, why do you bother to post? Isn't it a bit like crashing the party. Its not as if its an attempt to stimulate conversation. Its either bad jokes or boorish comments.

After all the mudcatters have done to make you feel welcome, I can only deduce that you are a serious sociopath.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 04:03 AM

Dianavan, in all tribes there is the inevitable outcast; someone who has to harry from the edges of the crowd in an effort to be heard and understood. They are necessary, for it makes the rest of us feel more secure in our own beliefs as being the better ones...Seriously, let Martin Gibson do his thing...he has to wake up every day and look at himself in the mirror. You, on the other hand, have the choice not to read his postings, and not to let him push your buttons. And I have a sneaking suspicion that on the meter of serious sociopaths, he is tamer than many...

El Greko-I enjoyed your story about the potatoes coming to Greece. While living on Syros, I did much the same thing with the very first case of avocados which had been sitting in the market unsaleble because they were so different looking and everyone would only look suspiciously askance at them from across the road. When I showed up and insisted I would buy them all, I was immediatly pushed out of the way by several Greeks who figured they'd be missing out on something special. The market guy was grateful, and promised he'd bring more in soon...he never did, and I missed out on getting the only case of avocadoes to come to our Island that decade..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: jacqui.c
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 06:01 AM

Ellen - you're right about Martin. He does serve a useful purpose in that he makes us look at our own points of view and either adjust or confirm our thinking. When he starts getting unpleasant the best thing is, as with small children, to ignore the outburst as not being worthy of reply.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: kendall
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 07:23 AM

I know the man well who Jerry is talking about, and what he said is true.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: freda underhill
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 09:14 AM

I got a job in a sensitive govt area in 92. We had to go through strict security screening. Because i had changed my name, it was only after i won the position that ASIO (Oz'z internal spooks) discovered problems with my "background". I was told on more than one occasion, by some dribbling old coots that "someone like you should never have been employed here".

Consequently I worked extremely hard in that job (a very interesting and rewarding one) and was able to make a significant difference. I was pleased to stay the distance, and the thanks i got from many that i helped over the years in that postion, and from later bosses, more than made up for the cranky old grumblebums, some of whom are still souring the corridors with their raised eyebrows and stuffed shirts.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Deckman
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 09:47 AM

Hey Freda .... "GRUMBLEBUM!" What a neat word. Can I steal it! CHEERS, Bob

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: freda underhill
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 09:57 AM

its not my word, Bob, its a real word here is Oz (unless its one of our old family sayings thats stayed with me) I just checked my shorter macquarie dictionary and its not there - but you're most welcome to it!

in the absence of an authoritative definition i hereby offer:

grumblebum: boring old fart, cranky pants, miserable whinger...
sourpuss, miseryguts..

enjoy!

freda

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Deckman
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 10:08 AM

Thanks for the definitions ... I think I KNOW him! Bob

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 10:34 AM

We gottem over here too, freda...

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: GUEST,Lilyfestre
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 11:53 AM

I'm gonna bitch. If you don't want to hear it or read it, I strongly advise you to stop reading this post.

I have spent the last several weeks working on group project in an assessment course. I have a binder full of my work. My partner complained I didn't do any of the work. The professor wanted to see my work and then she wanted to discuss the theories of all of it. I froze. Panic.

She told me my binder was all busy work (if it was just busy work then why the hell did she assign it and waste my f*cking time!?!?!?!) and that she thinks I haven't comprehended anything. I have A's on all my quizzes and tests so how is it she can come to this conclusion? Admittedly, my conversation with her was poor. She all but told me I should not continue with my studies. I feel like the biggest f*cking dumbass alive and wonder why I even bothered. I wish this fueled me like it has for some of you but I feel defeated and would like to curl up in a hole and not ever come out. I am embarrassed and angry with everyone involved beyond belief.

I'd like to stand in the middle of the campus and scream at the top of my lungs.

My "partner"was not quizzed on what she has comprehended nor has anyone else in the class. I don't think anyone could have discussed what the professor was going over with me without their notes as we all used our notes as a reference to guide us through the intricasies of it all.   

*********More ranting and raving*******************

I'm glad that someone telling folks they can't do something serves to fire them up so that something positive comes out of it....I just wish I could see that for myself.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Amos
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 11:59 AM

Michelle:

First question is one of spotting the source.

IS it the professor/teacher, or is it your "partner"?

Second question, is how you will handle the situation once the shock and chagrin wears off. And it will wear off; it is not the substance of the incident, more about a response to it.

To handle it you have to get a clear idea of how you may have contributed to the situation coming about. Without some idea of own-responsibility, you ar eleft only with a blamefight,. which goes no-where. But this certainly does NOT require buying any oppressive bull fromt the instructor. It requires finding those answers that are (a) true to your own sense of things and (b) open the door to a path of action you can take.

I would urge you not to waste all the work you have invested just to accomodate some jerk. Nor to get tangled up in a blame-fight. There is a better path open to you, but it take some finding.

A

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 12:17 PM

Good advice, Amos: I imagine that everyone who has recounted a "you can't do it" situation in this thread had exactly the same reaction that Michelle is having. Call it phase I. Then it's a matter of trying to figure out what YOU can do to overcome the problem. That's the hard part, but most of the time, it IS surmountable, one way or another.

Good luck, Michelle. Don't buckle!

"You can't rollerskate in a buffalo herd
But you can be happy, if you've a mind to

All you got to do is put your mind to it
Knuckle down, buckle down, do it, do it do it."

If Winsocki could buckle down, so can you.

Who the Hell was Winsocki?

I bet Amos knows..

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 12:17 PM

It might help to find someone else within the department who can act as a disinterested third party. Not a friend, but perhaps another teacher you know who could be approached to mediate.

I agree with Amos that you have put a lot of time and work into this and now you need to step back from the whole thing emotionally (I know, that's easy for ME to say, but harder to do, and might take a few days). But then, you do need to talk this through with all parties, and find out what was at the core of your instructor's reaction to only you and no one else.

Often there are reasons for things that we are not privy to initially, and it will be to your advantage to follow through with this. You need answers, but you also need to approach these people without too much emotion. Let yourself cool off first, then go back to it with your own thoughts clear. And it's always good to take some notes about what you want to express...good luck..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: freda underhill
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 12:36 PM

Yes, I would write down a record of every conversation, everything that has happened, because you are so wound up that in a few days there are things you may forget.

If you were given an extra test, a verbal one, when no one else was, you may have been discriminated against. And was the lecturer/tutor influenced by someone else's comments? what drew their attention to you? Were those comments, if any, presented to you, and were you given a chance to respond?

Yes, anger is a good motivating force, its a million times better than being depressed. Its part of you sticking up for yourself. But while its a good motivator, its not a good weapon.

after writing down your record of events, and thinking about those things, I'd also ask to see a college counsellor, and find out what the marking policy is. Its a big swing from being given As to being given the Big A.

Do you have a tutor in another subject that you trust? is there someone else there with experience that you can talk to?


good luck

freda

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Amos
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 12:38 PM

The original song Jerry refers to went:

BUCKLE DOWN, WINSOCKI

Buckle down, Winsocki
Buckle down
You can win, Winsocki
If you knuckle down
If you break their necks
If you make them wrecks
You can break the hex,
So buckle down,
Make 'em yell Winsocki, make 'em yell.
You can win, Winsocki
If you give 'em hell
It you don't give in take it on the chin
You are bound to win, it you will only buckle down,
If you fight you'll chuckle at defeat.
If you fight your luck'll not retreat
(Shout)
Knuckle down Winsocki
Knuckle down.
You can win, Winsocki
If you buckle down
If you mow them down
If you go to town
You can wear the crown
If you will only buckle down.

Still looking for Winsocki. A small town int he MidWest, if real, I expect...

A

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Amos
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 12:41 PM

Aha -- a fictional account from a 30's film:

"I think that it was in the late '30s or '40s that a movie was made that spoofed college football. It stared Jack Oakie as the star of the football team of Winsocki University. It was complete with a college fight song called "Buckle Down Winsocki," which had characteristic original lines such as:

Buckle down, Winsocki, buckle down

You can win Winsocki if you knuckle down,

...you will make them wrecks etc.

Even in those days there were problems with star athletes who really had no business being in a university. Oakie had to pass an exam in order to be eligible to play. The professor asked him one question, "Name a means of locomotion?" He hemmed and hawed until someone asked him "What do you do to get ready for a game?" He replied "train," and he passed the exam and was eligible to play in the big game. "

Still don't know the name of the movie but I believe the derivation above until better information comes along.

A

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Amos
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 01:13 PM

In 1941, Richard Rodgers, the unlisted producer (the team of Rodgers and Hart was ending. See 'Rodgers' Entry.), and George Abbott the director, engaged Martin and Blane to write the complete score of a new Broadway musical called 'Best Foot Forward', starring Nancy Walker. Hit songs included;
"Buckle Down Winsocki"
"Wish I May"
"What Do You Think I Am?"
"Ev'ry Time"

Best Foot Forward was made into a movie starring Jackie Oakie, by the same name, in 1943.

Mystery solved.

A

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 01:45 PM

Er . . . uh . . . I checked the Internet Movie Database for "Best Foot Forward." Jack Oakie doesn't seem to be in it. But it does have a pretty interesting cast. Lucille Ball as herself, , Gloria De Haven, June Allison, and as Amos mentions, Nancy Walker (who later played Rhoda's mother on TV).   I vaguely remember seeing it when I was about so tall — > = < —.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Amos
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 02:16 PM

Right you are, Don. My apologies -- I lost track of the data and ended up accepting the earlier reference to Jack Oakie, who was mixed in with several films of the period, but apparenyl was not in "Best Foot Forward". Anothe rlisting here.

A

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 02:19 PM

See, I knew Amos could find it, with a little help from Don. Are you guys any relation to Amos and Andy?

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: open mike
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 02:49 PM

When i was young i travelled with a group of friends. The fellow who owned the car would not let females drive his car. Later I got my first vehicle, which was an International Travellall, a large van-type vehicle. As luck would have it this fellow was in a band and needed help to transport the equipment, instruments, amps, etc. to the gig a few hours away. Guess Who drove??!! NOw i drive the rescue squad, and fire engine for the volunteer fire company and ;the bookmobile for the county library, all requiring a special, commercial liscence. How does that children's taunting song go?" na na na na nyah nyah....
yes inspiration comes in unusual packages some times..

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: jacqui.c
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 05:01 PM

Michelle - I'll go along with all that has been said before. I think we've all been where you are now and it HURTS. It will pass, believe me. We are so conditioned to believing that parents, teachers and others in authority are right that we doubt ourselves when they criticise. They can be wrong as well. Give yourself a while to calm down, put your thoughts down on paper, talk to someone you trust to give you an honest opinion and, once you feel a bit more confident try and sort it out.

Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 05:24 PM

Jacqui C., ellenpoly, and dianavan, and all other large ships at sea:

I was gratefully overwhelmed by the outpouring of welcome I got when I joined. Some longtime people here have welcomed me warmly and quite frankly, I was humbled.

I have absolutely no trouble looking at myself in a mirror everyday. I enjoy life, and have the HIGHEST confidence in myself for what I do in my job and in life's pleasures. If you need to come to the Mudcat for your 12-step program, be my guest. I reserve the right to at least get some entertainment value out of it.

I just think that one should be enjoying life rather than have a big strokefest like this thread is.

How about this: They said you couldn't get a life. But I say you can. You can do it, ladies!

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Megan L
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 05:28 PM

of course you can martin eh so pardon me for asking why you spend so much time haning round here?

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 05:32 PM

The upper threads are about music, one of my passions in life.

The lower threads are occasionally interesting, from an entertainment or informative perspective.

That's why I've been "haning" around here.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 06:39 PM

Two posts in a row, one for Martin Gibson and one for everyone:—

Marty, old buddy! Welcome aboard!

I see you're feeling your oats again! Lavishing contempt on those things you don't quite grasp.

You know, regarding some of the remarks you make up above, were I given to acrimony, which is foreign to the natural sweetness of my character, I might tell you to go piss up a rope: but first, I've never really known what that's supposed to mean, and second, that would be the kind of thing that some vulgar, snot-nosed, acne-faced schoolyard bully at the limit of his meager intellect might say, and I really don't want to try to steal your act.

Since, in another thread, you seemed to enjoy playing around with my name, I could go the NPR route and give you a puzzle, à la Puzzle Master Will Shortz on Weekend Edition Sunday. For example, take the name by which you identify yourself; change the first letter of the first word and add an apostrophe after the "n." Then change one letter in the last word by eliminating one of the letters already there and doubling one of the others. The result should describe an arboreal brachiating tailless ape indigenous to south east Asia with a severe flatulence problem. [Some of you will get this right away, but it may take Marty a little while to work it out.]

But since you apparently cannot summon up the motivation to climb the ladder of evolution beyond this level, I shall try to find it in my heart to forgive you and accept you as you are, warts and all.

What it all boils down to can be summed up in the words of a song by Mark Graham:   

         I can see your aura, and it's ugly!!

But I like to feel there is good in all people . . . somewhere . . . way deep down . . . that may emerge eventually . . . someday . . . perhaps. . . .

Warmest regards,

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 06:41 PM

I picked up a guitar student in the mid-Sixties who was an ex-Marine, and when in the service he developed a taste for competitive pistol shooting. Sunday afternoons he and I used to go to the Seattle Police Athletic Association's range, burn a lot of powder, and try to blow holes in the exact center of rectangular pieces of paper at 25 yards. When the weather was good, we'd often go out to a gravel pit or some other isolated place with a good backstop and do murder to empty soft drink and beer cans (but we never mixed beer with shooting. Stupid! The beer came afterwards, when the guns were cleaned and put away.). A beer can full of water makes a most satisfying geyser when hit square on with a .45 ACP slug!

Loren, my friend, got married to a lovely young woman named Marcia. He got her interested in shooting also, and she got pretty good.

On one of our Sunday afternoon outings, we went to clearing in a wooded area just south of Issaquah, east of Lake Washington. It was just off the road, at the foot of a bluff that made a good backstop. Loren and Buzz Ross, another friend, were off to one side of the clearing, blazing away at targets they had set up. After putting most of a box of Canadian military surplus 9 mm. ammo through my Smith & Wesson Model 39 (Loren got a real deal on the ammo: Several thousand rounds at 3¢ a round. I bought a bunch off of him), I was leaning against Loren's car taking a breather and watching Marcia as she popped away at miscellaneous targets with Loren's .22 cal. Ruger Mark II. She had set up a row of water-filled cans on the remnants of what had once been a fence rail, but she wasn't shooting at them. She was saving them for later.

We were not the only ones who used this place as a shooting gallery. Two other guys were there, and they were also taking a breather and watching Marcia (who, in addition to being a very bright young woman and a crack-shot, was quite easy on the eyes). They were discussing various handguns in terms of difficulty to shoot—heavy recoil. They noted the .22 that Marcia was shooting and remarked that it was a good gun for a woman. Light recoil. "Probably about the heaviest gun a woman could handle would be a .38 Special," one of them pontificated, "but only if she had the proper training. Say, a police woman." "Right," said the other guy. "A woman could never handle a gun like a .45 auto," said the first guy. "Might sprain her wrist. Maybe even break it." "Right," said the other guy. They'd been going on like this for awhile. Two male chauvinist piglets.

Although she was concentrating on her shooting, Marcia overheard this conversation. Tendrils of steam began to emerge from her collar, but she retained her sweet smile. She fired the last round from the magazine of the Ruger, then came to where I stood. Behind me, on the hood of Loren's car, was the black attaché case where Loren kept his arsenal (James Bond movies, staring Sean Connery, were big about this time, and we all carried our arsenals in black attaché cases). She put the Ruger away and picked up Loren's Gold Cup target grade .45 automatic—a finely tuned version of the good old fashioned slab-sided 1911 A1 .45 caliber Army Colt Pistol. She filled a magazine with cartridges holding lead slugs about the size of loaves of bread, shoved the magazine into the grip, and returned to where she had been shooting. She pulled the slide back and released it to snap forward and chamber a round (a sound guaranteed to scare the crap out of a burglar!). She took the target-shooter's stance—erect, turned somewhat sideways, holding the pistol with one hand. She extended her arm, peered along the sights, and unleashed Hellfire at a row of water-filled soft drink cans. Cans leapt into the air, water exploded everywhere, and thunder echoed from the mountainsides.

Marcia returned to the car and put the Gold Cup away. As she leaned against the fender beside me, she smiled sweetly at the two guys. They just stood there with their mouths open and blinked.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 08:49 PM

Don - I love that story.

My brother was a Marine, an instructor on the rifle range. He taught snipers, too. He used to say, if you think I'm good, you should meet my sister. It was true. I could out shoot my brother any day! We used to practice on empty beer cans and bottles too. Sometimes at night we would sneak to the dump and pit lamp, rats. We considered it a service to humanity. At least that was the excuse we dreamed up in case we ever got caught. We never did.

Michelle - There will always be people who will try to discredit you. It happens in the workplace all the time. Look at this as your opportunity to learn how to deal with it. One of the most valuable lessons you learn in university, is how to cope with people who try to put you down.

Have a cry but do not grieve (you haven't lost yet). Do not withdraw from the course. You have already earned your marks. In regards to this particular assignment, there are procedures if you wish to appeal. If it effects your overall mark, appeal, appeal, appeal. If you are worried about what the instructor or your partner thinks of you, let it pass or talk to them personally. Remember, its what you think of yourself that really matters.

Some of the most valuable learning experiences are the most painful but you will be stronger than ever when it is over. All things change in time.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 11:23 PM

Great story, Don: I can relate to shooting pop bottles, and rats at the town dump. Used to do it in my wild, bb gun totin' days on the range. Me and Red Ryder.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 11:47 PM

My brother took his fiancee out with him once when he went shooting with his friend Jeff. They used a LARGE earthen dam (farm pond) for a backstop, were shooting at 25 yards, and Jeff had a .357 magnum revolver with him.

Well, Teri, who was from Chicago and had never fired a gun before in her life, was outshooting both Ted and Jeff. So they let her try the .357. Five round of .38 Special, and the last round was full-bore .357 ammo.

She flat-out NAILED the center of the target with the first five rounds, and the guys were grinning to themselves as Teri came up to the last round.

KA-BOOM! and the bullet went dead through the middle of the bull.

Teri turned to the guys and said, quite innocently, "I think there was more powder or something in that last one."

Most women I've met who shoot can learn to outshoot men. I suspect that it's because they don't come with mental baggage such as "I'm a guy and I know this stuff!" -- they'll listen to instruction and learn.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 04:01 PM

Hey Jerry, you sure have a knack for coming up with thread subjects that bring out the best in folks. My only complaint is that means there's even *more* interesting Mudcat threads -- and it's already *far* too easy to spend WAY too much of my day on Mudcat!

Anyway, this is not my own story... but I think it's worth sharing.

When my (younger) sister was 2, she got encephalitis. She had to learn (among other things) how to walk and talk again -- from square one. It also affected her concentration, attention span, etc -- left her with "learning disabilities".

One doctor told my parents that she would never be able to take care of herself, and when they died she would need to live in some kind of home/institution. A somewhat more optimistic doctor said she *might* be sort of almost "caught up" with her peers by college age, and might possibly be able to lead a normal(ish) life.

There were not many schools in those days (the 60s) prepared to deal with kids who were "different", but my mother found one (an hour or so from us), made *endless* phone calls, and fought tooth & nail to get my sister into a "PD" program (for kids with "perceptual difficulties").

By the time she was in 4th grade, my sister was so unhappy with the "PD = Permanently Dumb" comments from the "normal" kids that she begged to be "mainstreamed" into a regular classroom. She was allowed to try this and managed just fine.

She graduated high school (a large, competitive one) cum laude, and (poor thing!) had to choose between attending University of Michigan's Honors Program or MIT. She chose U of M and again graduated cum laude. One of her advisors told her he didn't think she'd be able to handle a major in computer science.

She moved to New York City (for a programming job with a computer software company) and attended Columbia University part-time (while working full-time). When she finished, she had a Master's (not to mention a 4.0) in Computer Science from one of the most respected Universities in the US.

When I called to congratulate her on receiving her Master's, I was *amazed* to hear her say, vehemently, "Now no-one can say I'm dumb!"

I told her I'd *never* thought of her as dumb... heck, her high school GPA was higher than mine (and mine wasn't bad!) -- and she took tougher courses. But she had continued to be haunted (aa well as driven) by those childhood voices telling her she was not smart enough.

Today she maintains the website at a national research laboratory (I hear there are some pretty bright people in those places) and also runs a program which teaches teachers how to teach online. She's one of the most thoughtful, intelligent people I know. She's happily married and is a wonderful, patient mommy to an adorable 7-month old.

Not bad for someone who "might be able to lead an almost normal life some day"...

Kudos to my parents for all the love, support and patience they offered as she fought her way back to "normalcy".

One last note, although the "story" would probably be "better" if I stopped here: my Dad used to tease us all (there are 4 of us) now & then. (He insults/makes fun of himself as well.) His gentle put-downs concerned areas where we were (he thought) secure in ourselves -- for example, he might tell my brother (who looked, if anything, malnourished -- even though he seemed to eat more than the rest of us put together) that he was "too fat". He would also sometimes say one of us was "dumb" -- in a tone of voice which (he thought, & so did I) made it obvious he *didn't* think that at all. However, I was a bit shocked to learn later, when my sister got such comments from him, she didn't think he was joking (she never said anything about it at the time).

My Father was even more shocked and truly dismayed when she finally told him this (after she got her Master's). If he'd had *any* idea she might actually take it seriously, I think he'd have cut out his tongue before he'd have said anything like that. Perhaps he "should" have realized it would be a sensitive subject to her (hindsight is 20/20, as the saying goes), but none of the rest of us realized she was taking this to heart, either.

The reason I mention it now is to make others aware of how much impact even *jokingly* negative comments can have -- especially on a child -- more than you can imagine.

Fortunately, in my family's case, the story has a happy ending...

Cheers,

YY

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Amos
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 04:07 PM

YY:

Huzzahs for her, and thanks for that story!! IF you're gonna tell her you posted it, tell her I congratulate her, if that isn't presumptuous...

A

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 05:50 PM

Don

I hated your story and found it kind of boring. Gave up reading it because it was more interesting to look out the window at nature in springtime.

I have no warts at all. I am no where near your age. Keep trying to find where your generation fits in.

I may be pissing up a rope as you call it, but pissing is about all you've got left that resembles anything orgasmic.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Amos
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 08:59 PM

Martin:

Ole Fartin' Martin is off his meds again, I guess.

I will say this much -- Don Firth has done a lot more for the world than you have. Why don't you hold your tongue and learn from your betters?

A

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: dianavan
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 09:13 PM

Marty, Marty, Marty. When will you ever learn?

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 09:39 PM

You my man, Don: And boring you ain't.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Deckman
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 09:59 PM

In the fifty three years I've been privileged to call Don Firth my friend, I dare say that I have NEVER found him boring. Opinionated, correct, educating, wonderful, entertaining, very funny, goofy as hell, charming, seductive, fascinating, and wonderful! But boring ... never! CHEERS, Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 10:19 PM

You don't have to prove your independent spirit to anyone here, Martin. :-) We DON'T think you're a wimp, honest! We know you're tough-minded. I swear, you are becoming the Don Cherry of Mudcat.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 10:24 PM

Gee, guys! Thanks! I'm trying to keep from blushing. But for now, I have to have a word with Marty.

I'm sorry if you found my story boring, Marty. I must apologize. I keep forgetting that words of more than two syllables and the occasional compound sentence seem to stretch the limits of your attention span. Others seem to have found it of at least some interest, so I shall try to take solace from that. In the future, at the risk of others finding my literary endeavors a bit too "Dick and Jane," but nevertheless, out of consideration for you, I shall try to keep the Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease Index at appropriate levels for your stage of cognitive development.

But Marty, there is a matter I feel I must address:   in a number of your posts, you seem to be expressing concern about my ability to function sexually, so I think it best that we have a little chat about this.

First of all, I am happily married and so, she tells me, is my lovely wife. We have been married for many years. So I hope you won't find this too disappointing, but—I'm afraid that there can never be anything of that nature between you and me.

Besides, I must advise you that seeking this kind of companionship on the internet is not only sad and sordid, it can sometimes prove to be hazardous. I suggest that it would be best if you look elsewhere for companionship.

Second, as far as my actual sex life is concerned, it is not appropriate for me to discuss it here, but suffice it to say that all too often many younger men, due to their impatience and lack of confidence, rarely have the mental and physical (and certainly not the emotional) control necessary for a satisfactory encounter for both parties.   All too often, as the young man's eyes cross and he flops over on his back, the young woman is wondering when he is going to begin. There is a great deal to be gained from knowledge and experience. Although I can no longer be considered a young man, I have discovered that one of the many, many advantages of longevity is—longevity. [If that baffles you, try to get someone to explain it to you.]

I don't know your age, but from your writings, I assume that you are quite young. You seem to think that because I am at least twice, perhaps three, or even four times your age (I'm speaking chronologically here; I will not mention mental age, as I feel that many of your personality difficulties come from low self-esteem, and to aggravate that would only be to aggravate your difficulties), that I am somehow to be regarded as an object of your pity, if not (uncharitably enough) your contempt. Hardly the case. That is a sad misconception held by the most callow of youth.

You see, all of those things about which you dream, all those things to which you aspire, people of my age—my vintage—have already done! And most of us, including me, are still doing them. This means musically as well as all the other fine and worthwhile things in life.

Don't just sit there in your dank and dismal room thinking dark thoughts and gazing rancorously out your window at the beautiful spring day. Let the scales fall from your eyes and expunge the bitterness from your soul. Life is full! Life is rich! Get out and live it!

Or, at least, try to smile once in a while. Your face won't break.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Deckman
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 11:07 PM

HE HE HE HE, HA HA HA HA HA, HO HO HO HO! I'm sorry, I have to stop now, my sides hurt from laughing TOO much! Bob

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: dianavan
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 11:15 PM

Marty is the result of a circumcision gone wrong. Why else would he feel the need to piss on everyone. Hold on to your wee wee, buddy, and try to get your aim straight.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Deckman
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 11:32 PM

I just hope that "Marty" keeps posting. He is causing such magnificant writing from friend Don that we probably should put him on the payroll! Bob

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 04:32 AM

You see folks, Martin Gibson serves a great purpose for us all. I say, may his nasty abusive postings continue. As Deckman Bob pointed out, the response is almost always better than his posting.

Your story, Don, reminded me of my dear friend Sheryl. Born blind, to parents who never got over the idea that she would be a useless member of society and treated her as such for her entire childhood, Sheryl proved them wrong in so many ways that I can only say here that her life is as independent, complex, successful, and meaningful as anyone I've ever known. It was my great privilege to have worked for her for many years when I lived in Hawaii, where I once even taught her how to drive. She was and is a living, breathing example of how someone can take negativity and abuse and turn it into brilliance of both mind and spirit.

Hey Martin, tell us more about YOUR life. Especially the people you've touched, and their love for you. I mean this with all sincerity...xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Kim C
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 10:08 AM

Say Martin... there's this thing called Friendship. It's like therapy for poor people. Look into it.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 10:29 AM

And Martin, howzabout posting something about a person you love and respect? Better yet, how about even posting something about someone other than yourself?

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 09:48 PM

They said I couldn't get onto Mudcat tonight, but I did. Now, I'm going to bed..

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Amos
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 09:59 PM

Hey, Jerry!! Sleep tight!! We love ya, man!!


A

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: s6k
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 10:15 PM

they said it couldnt be done... so i didnt do it ! 3:10 am and im off to bed!

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Benjamin
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 11:23 AM

The best story I have is not actually about me. But for 4 years I volunteered in a youth shelter for homeless youth. Although we couldn't let kids who were over 18 spend the night (state law) we would lend them out blankets for the night providing the came while we were still open. I remember one night when we had closed (for a while at this point) and one girl started pounding on the door throwing a fit trying to get a blanket. I said to myself that this girl would never make it off (and sadly many kids never do). The next week, she came in crying. She had just called the cops on her abusive boyfriend and they had arrested him. She then got into a YMCA housing program that gives you a room for 60 days then your out. Most of the kids who went through that had a great 60 days, then they were out and back where they started. However, she used that time to get a job and find more longer term transitional housing. She would constantly stop by the shelter to thank us for our help afterwards. I was talking to one of the volunteer cordinaters after we heard that she was moving into her first appartment. I was telling him about the night she was pounding on the door trying to get a blanket and told him how I had said she wouldn't make it. The cordinater (who was there that night) remembered the night and told me that he was saying the same thing. I don't think either of us were ever so happy that someone did prove us wrong!

Benjamin

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Amos
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 11:48 AM

Benjamin:

Thanks for the success story, man. We need 'em!!


A

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 03:15 PM

Ok, Ok

First of all I have never heard of Don Firth. I also don't really care to. If knowing him has redeeming value for you, fine, but he has turned this post into something about him. If you don't like what I post, don't read it.

Second of all, he attacked me personally, first and I will not put up with his crap. I do not really know the man, but I really do not care to. Yes, he does continue to insult me first, ALWAYS. His writings are long, drawn out and are unfinishable to read and why would I want to read so much trite shit aimed maliciously at me. My responses are short and to the point, and I know he is reading mine. but let me assure you, I never finish anything he reads.

Next, I ususally skip Jerry's posts because there is not enough KY jelly in the world to have all of his sunshine pumped up my ass. This thread, and others will occasionally get a comment from me if I see fit. I am not here for Jerry's 12 step program. I think this guy is more full of himself than most people realize.

Jerry, I don't have to post anything for your approval. There are many people in the world that I love and respect. I deal with them as friends and family in the real world. Evidently you don't have many in the real world, and that is why, with your on-going self confidence problem, you have to be some kind of Mudcat self-appointed feel good minister. Isn't it time to go frolic in the meadow?

Haven't a clue who Don Cherry is. Wasted analogy.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 03:53 PM

I'm not going to engage in a juvenile "but he started it!" squabble with you, Marty, but I could refer you to a couple of threads where you attacked me in a particularly nasty and immature way because you don't agree with some of my political views, and instead of rationally trying to rebut what I wrote, you attacked me and my family (about whom you know nothing, as you have just said) personally. I think you know what I'm talking about.

You come onto threads, and right off the bat, you start making contemptuous remarks about how dumb the thread is and how dumb the people are who started it and who post to it. I refer you to your post on this thread of 04 Apr 04 - 04:48 PM, and all your subsequent posts. If you think it's so dumb, why do you hang around? Also, you imply that because some of us spend a bit of time here on Mudcat sharing our experiences in the real world, we don't actually have lives in the real world. Well . . . why are you here, then? If you behave in the real world the way you behave here, I really wonder how many friends you really do have, and if any, why they would put up with you.

I tried to jolly you a bit with humor, but it's pretty obvious that you are a much more bitter human being than I thought. Other people have tried to be friendly toward you, but you treat such efforts with contempt. If you feel that you are being unduly attacked, let me just point out that you bring it on yourself. If you wander around acting like a jackass, you have to expect that sooner or later someone is going to try to throw a saddle on you and ride you a bit.

Grow up!

Now, everybody, let's get back to the original subject of this thread, shall we?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: kaeina
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 04:47 PM

My music teacher in grade 6 told me I'd never be a musician, because I couldn't play the recorder. I ended up winning awards for my bass playing at the west coast jazz festival and at the Banff Festival of Music as well as getting A's in band in high school. I am still playing music and enjoying it immensely 12 years later.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Kim C
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 05:05 PM

I think somebody needs a little KY to get his head out of his ass, so he might have room for some sunshine...

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Amos
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 05:09 PM

Martin:

Re because there is not enough KY jelly in the world to have all of his sunshine pumped up my ass. This thread, and others will occasionally get a comment from me if I see fit....I think this guy is more full of himself than most people realize, I am ROTFLMAO!! First because that is such a colorful turn of phrase. Second because hey, free projection!

Never mind. You can be the resident obstreperoustitrician, howzzat?

A

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: GUEST,Mary V.
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 09:29 PM

Dear Don Firth ....you handled.... that beautifully.
I always wanted to answer one of those negative ones..
and just never did.

I love mudcatters and really appreciate all the advice and suggestions I receive. The majority are all such wonderful kind people.
I'm from Wisconsin and I don't know Jerry Rasmussen. But I know he is a really nice person who took the time to send me some beautiful c.d.s.
I was told I can't sing ....and was told I couldn't play guitar and I knew I could . So I kept at it....and worked really hard...
but it wasn't work really it was pleasure.
I'm now playing all over and I'm being asked to sing and I'm proof. Never give up when you set your heart to something .
Happy Easter everyone ! Summers on the way
Mary V.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Amos
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 09:54 PM

Mary V:

Thank you so much for that message. It was one of those things that drops into your world just at the most important moment. I was really glad to see it and found it very cheering!

Thanks again,

Amos

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 10:19 PM

Hi, Mary: My wife and I are heading out to Wisconsin in early June to celebrate my Mother's 97th birthday. Sorry we won't be further north to meet you.

I guess there are worse things to be criticized for than bringing sunshine.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Metchosin
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 10:28 PM

Amos, I'm not sure if Martin could, he seems to suffer from rectal speleological aphasia.

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 10:56 PM

I don't want to keep beating on old Marty, but I did have a bit of inspiration, and it's right on the main subject of this thread.

I offer Marty a challenge:

Although you seem to have the attitude and personality of a wolverine and a mind like a septic tank, I suspect that there may—just may—be a decent human being buried somewhere inside all that bitterness and sarcasm. You seem to be fairly articulate, and you also seem to have fairly good taste in guitars. Once in a while you slip and actually allow yourself to say something worth reading.

Therefore—I challenge you to drop all your usual crap and try to add something of value to Mudcat. If someone has a question and you know the answer, answer it (in a direct and friendly manner, not with sarcasm). If you feel you have something interesting to share, share it. Tell us something about yourself. Do you perform? Where? What particular kinds of folk music are you interested in? Most people here are very friendly, and if you act that way yourself, that's they way you'll be received. Rather than sneering at everybody and everything, why don't you try to add something to the mix (other than just pissing in the punchbowl)?

Is there a decent human being under that sneering façade? If so, let him out. Can you do that, Marty? The title of this thread is "They said I couldn't" Okay. Can you?

I doubt it. I don't think you've got what it takes.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: Metchosin
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 01:53 AM

Oh Wow! we have another new Mudcatter! KAEINA!

I thought the bass player story sounded strangely familiar, Surprise, Surprise!

kaeina is my daughter.

Thought you could fool me by changing your name, eh!

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: GUEST,Shlio
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 05:53 PM

They said I couldn't sing.

Sadly, I have come to the conclusion that they were right.

I think the thing that's worse than encouragement or discouragement is apathy. People letting you know that they couldn't care less if you succeeded in your dreams or not is much more depressing than even Martin Gibson's most acidic posts. At least he cares enough to criticise.

Encouragement makes you want to succeed with a warm glow.
Discouragement gives you something to prove and strive for.
Apathy can make you believe that it really is worthless, or make you bitter.

Ooops - I think I'm letting my bitterness show

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: GUEST,Mary V.
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 08:05 PM

Hey Jerry ! Bring the sunshine on up to Wisconsin.
We will welcome the warmth with open arms,
and a happy birthday to your mom too !
My email is [e-mail]
I lost your email address when my computer had technical
difficulties. I think actually ..I am the one with the
difficulties. : )
Thanks Amos ! You made my day !
still pickin' and grinnin' up north !

Mary

Subject: RE: BS: They said I couldn't
From: GUEST,Steven Read
Date: 19 Sep 05 - 10:52 AM

The movie was "Best Foot Forward."