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BS: GUEST posters who start fights

Peace 10 Apr 04 - 02:26 PM
Clinton Hammond 10 Apr 04 - 02:33 PM
Little Hawk 10 Apr 04 - 02:34 PM
GUEST 10 Apr 04 - 02:35 PM
Little Hawk 10 Apr 04 - 02:36 PM
Peace 10 Apr 04 - 02:39 PM
GUEST 10 Apr 04 - 02:42 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 10 Apr 04 - 02:56 PM
Ebbie 10 Apr 04 - 03:00 PM
Peace 10 Apr 04 - 04:01 PM
GUEST 10 Apr 04 - 04:06 PM
Chief Chaos 10 Apr 04 - 04:12 PM
jacqui.c 10 Apr 04 - 04:37 PM
GUEST 10 Apr 04 - 04:39 PM
Little Hawk 10 Apr 04 - 04:42 PM
GUEST 10 Apr 04 - 04:43 PM
Little Hawk 10 Apr 04 - 05:01 PM
Little Hawk 10 Apr 04 - 05:08 PM
Blackcatter 10 Apr 04 - 05:26 PM
GUEST,Peter from Essex 10 Apr 04 - 05:32 PM
GUEST 10 Apr 04 - 05:43 PM
Blackcatter 10 Apr 04 - 05:43 PM
GUEST 10 Apr 04 - 05:51 PM
Amos 10 Apr 04 - 05:59 PM
kendall 10 Apr 04 - 06:28 PM
GUEST,Jim Dixon 10 Apr 04 - 06:49 PM
Peace 10 Apr 04 - 07:30 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 10 Apr 04 - 07:44 PM
GUEST 10 Apr 04 - 07:59 PM
Don Firth 10 Apr 04 - 08:00 PM
Once Famous 10 Apr 04 - 08:16 PM
Jeri 10 Apr 04 - 11:14 PM
Don Firth 11 Apr 04 - 01:36 AM
kendall 11 Apr 04 - 07:36 AM
Rapparee 11 Apr 04 - 10:13 AM
Bobert 11 Apr 04 - 11:08 AM
Little Hawk 11 Apr 04 - 11:48 AM
kendall 11 Apr 04 - 11:51 AM
GUEST,heric 11 Apr 04 - 02:45 PM
GUEST,heric 11 Apr 04 - 02:48 PM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Apr 04 - 03:46 PM
Peace 11 Apr 04 - 04:28 PM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Apr 04 - 04:50 PM
GUEST 11 Apr 04 - 05:54 PM
Chief Chaos 11 Apr 04 - 05:55 PM
Peace 11 Apr 04 - 06:23 PM
Little Hawk 11 Apr 04 - 06:45 PM
Doug Chadwick 11 Apr 04 - 07:37 PM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Apr 04 - 08:00 PM
M.Ted 11 Apr 04 - 11:02 PM
Ellenpoly 12 Apr 04 - 06:31 AM
Rapparee 12 Apr 04 - 09:20 AM
GUEST 12 Apr 04 - 11:04 AM
Little Hawk 12 Apr 04 - 11:29 AM
Ellenpoly 12 Apr 04 - 12:08 PM
Dave the Gnome 12 Apr 04 - 04:15 PM
Chief Chaos 12 Apr 04 - 04:33 PM
Little Hawk 12 Apr 04 - 04:50 PM
GUEST,Shlio 12 Apr 04 - 05:02 PM
LilyFestre 12 Apr 04 - 07:34 PM
Peace 13 Apr 04 - 12:07 PM
Donuel 13 Apr 04 - 12:22 PM
Bill D 13 Apr 04 - 12:44 PM
GUEST,humph 13 Apr 04 - 12:47 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 13 Apr 04 - 01:04 PM
Little Hawk 13 Apr 04 - 04:38 PM
Peace 13 Apr 04 - 04:47 PM
Peace 13 Apr 04 - 05:24 PM
GUEST 13 Apr 04 - 05:25 PM
Little Hawk 13 Apr 04 - 05:30 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 13 Apr 04 - 05:32 PM
GUEST 13 Apr 04 - 05:44 PM
Peace 13 Apr 04 - 05:50 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 13 Apr 04 - 06:43 PM
Rapparee 13 Apr 04 - 10:23 PM
GUEST,guest 14 Apr 04 - 02:20 AM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 14 Apr 04 - 02:59 AM
Little Hawk 14 Apr 04 - 11:21 AM
GUEST,Bee 14 Apr 04 - 11:51 AM
GUEST 14 Apr 04 - 11:53 AM
Strick 14 Apr 04 - 11:54 AM
Little Hawk 14 Apr 04 - 11:55 AM
Ellenpoly 14 Apr 04 - 12:40 PM
Peace 14 Apr 04 - 12:47 PM
GUEST,heric 14 Apr 04 - 01:53 PM
Little Hawk 14 Apr 04 - 03:28 PM
Rapparee 14 Apr 04 - 03:43 PM
Little Hawk 14 Apr 04 - 03:54 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 14 Apr 04 - 04:11 PM
Peace 14 Apr 04 - 04:21 PM
Peace 14 Apr 04 - 04:22 PM
Little Hawk 14 Apr 04 - 04:26 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 14 Apr 04 - 04:27 PM
Peace 14 Apr 04 - 04:42 PM
Rapparee 14 Apr 04 - 04:52 PM
Little Hawk 14 Apr 04 - 05:00 PM
Rapparee 14 Apr 04 - 06:30 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Apr 04 - 07:03 PM
Little Hawk 15 Apr 04 - 12:05 AM
el ted 15 Apr 04 - 03:36 AM
George Papavgeris 15 Apr 04 - 04:29 AM
The Shambles 15 Apr 04 - 04:30 AM
el ted 15 Apr 04 - 04:42 AM
GUEST 15 Apr 04 - 04:49 AM
GUEST 15 Apr 04 - 09:00 AM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Apr 04 - 11:29 AM
GUEST 15 Apr 04 - 11:47 AM
Bill D 15 Apr 04 - 01:38 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 15 Apr 04 - 02:03 PM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Apr 04 - 02:14 PM
Ebbie 15 Apr 04 - 02:38 PM
GUEST 15 Apr 04 - 02:59 PM
Peace 15 Apr 04 - 03:04 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 15 Apr 04 - 03:18 PM
wysiwyg 15 Apr 04 - 04:07 PM
Once Famous 15 Apr 04 - 04:15 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 15 Apr 04 - 04:19 PM
harpgirl 15 Apr 04 - 05:14 PM
GUEST 16 Apr 04 - 08:34 AM
GUEST 16 Apr 04 - 08:52 AM
Little Hawk 16 Apr 04 - 11:17 AM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Apr 04 - 01:05 PM
GUEST,Shlio 16 Apr 04 - 03:29 PM
Little Hawk 16 Apr 04 - 03:34 PM
GUEST,lurker 16 Apr 04 - 03:44 PM
Little Hawk 16 Apr 04 - 05:28 PM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Apr 04 - 05:37 PM
Peace 16 Apr 04 - 08:07 PM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Apr 04 - 09:16 PM
Peace 17 Apr 04 - 09:13 PM
GUEST 17 Apr 04 - 11:35 PM
John P 18 Apr 04 - 12:58 AM
GUEST 18 Apr 04 - 02:47 AM
George Papavgeris 18 Apr 04 - 06:16 AM
Ellenpoly 18 Apr 04 - 06:34 AM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Apr 04 - 07:16 AM
George Papavgeris 18 Apr 04 - 07:27 AM
GUEST,Jean Phillips. Very nice, well behaved GUEST 18 Apr 04 - 07:38 AM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Apr 04 - 08:35 AM
GUEST 18 Apr 04 - 08:35 AM
Peace 18 Apr 04 - 01:00 PM
John P 18 Apr 04 - 01:22 PM
GUEST 18 Apr 04 - 05:00 PM
GUEST,Shlio 18 Apr 04 - 05:48 PM
Peace 18 Apr 04 - 06:18 PM
George Papavgeris 19 Apr 04 - 11:13 AM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Apr 04 - 11:27 AM
GUEST 19 Apr 04 - 02:57 PM
GUEST,sorefingers 19 Apr 04 - 03:07 PM
Once Famous 19 Apr 04 - 03:25 PM
GUEST,Shlio 19 Apr 04 - 04:18 PM
Doug Chadwick 19 Apr 04 - 04:48 PM
Doug Chadwick 19 Apr 04 - 04:49 PM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Apr 04 - 04:55 PM
GUEST,sorefingers 19 Apr 04 - 09:58 PM
GUEST,Jellybean 19 Apr 04 - 10:30 PM
GUEST 19 Apr 04 - 10:49 PM
GUEST 19 Apr 04 - 11:35 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Apr 04 - 08:32 AM
George Papavgeris 20 Apr 04 - 09:50 AM
GUEST 20 Apr 04 - 09:55 AM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 20 Apr 04 - 10:03 AM
GUEST 20 Apr 04 - 10:50 AM
Peace 20 Apr 04 - 10:58 AM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 20 Apr 04 - 11:56 AM
Doug Chadwick 20 Apr 04 - 12:48 PM
Once Famous 20 Apr 04 - 01:01 PM
Peace 20 Apr 04 - 01:25 PM
GUEST,sorefingers 20 Apr 04 - 01:52 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 20 Apr 04 - 03:34 PM
Once Famous 20 Apr 04 - 03:38 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 20 Apr 04 - 03:44 PM
Once Famous 20 Apr 04 - 03:51 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 20 Apr 04 - 04:14 PM
Peace 20 Apr 04 - 04:41 PM
GUEST,sorfingers 20 Apr 04 - 04:50 PM
Once Famous 20 Apr 04 - 04:52 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Apr 04 - 06:42 PM
Peace 20 Apr 04 - 07:24 PM
GUEST 20 Apr 04 - 07:30 PM
Once Famous 20 Apr 04 - 11:38 PM
GUEST 20 Apr 04 - 11:58 PM
Once Famous 21 Apr 04 - 12:11 AM
The Shambles 30 Apr 04 - 10:03 AM
GUEST 30 Apr 04 - 05:24 PM
TS 30 Apr 04 - 05:33 PM

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Subject: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 02:26 PM

The subject of GUEST posters who start fights, get insulting, stuff like that: Maybe there is an answer that doesn't involve censorship at the 'managerial' level, one that doesn't involve Joe, Max and Jeff.

When GUESTS post with a question to do with music, folklore, whatever, provide the answer. When they start threads, regardless of how provocative, IGNORE the threads. This would do one of two things:

1) Work
2) Not work

We got nothin' to lose by trying it out. Post NO responses to GUESTS without cookies. That's that. Wanna give it a try?


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 02:33 PM

How many times is someone gona sing this song?

I'd rather hear Whiskey In The Jar again...

Any MB worth it's salt is well moderated... not left to float in it's own cr@p....


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 02:34 PM

Well, you'll never get everyone onside on that, Bruce. I suspect that some of the more persistently negative Guests are disgruntled former members of this forum (one or two individuals particularly come to mind). Bearing a grudge against this place, they are strongly motivated to come here frequently and raise shit anonymously...in order to "get even" or indulge in feelings of superiority. That's typical of a wounded ego. It happens. Doesn't worry me too much.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 02:35 PM

brucie is still relatively new here, and he thinks someone ought to intervene when his side is losing the debate.

Wah wah wah, brucie. Why not quit your baby whining, and sharpen your pencil. Try debating like an adult.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 02:36 PM

My, my. We've got a real sense of grievance here, don't we?


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 02:39 PM

My question was: do we want to give it a try? Like chicken soup: maybe won't help, but it can't hurt.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 02:42 PM

Considering the only problem here is you and brucie starting a bash the anon guest thread, because I'm kicking your ass in debates in a couple other threads?

The two of you seem to share a couple of negative personality traits. The one in particular the two of you share is attempting to jump into threads and trivializing serious discussions by making statements you hope will get you noticed for being funny, witty, and clever.

You aren't any of those things, just boors. The fact that the two of you will stoop to the level of a bash the anon guest thread proves that.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 02:56 PM

I'm perfectly happy to mix it with guests if they make debatable points. What's the problem, apart from some harmless confusion sorting one from another? Posting as an anonymous guest is only one step removed from posting under a pseudonym, as I did for a few years and as others still do (and are welcome to do).


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 03:00 PM

brucie, if you do a search, you'll find the current crop is mild. There was a time a year or two ago when it was virulent. I can live with this.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 04:01 PM

Have another idea that I'll try out. We'll see. Thanks for the input.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 04:06 PM

Well brucie, you've already tried the tactic of impersonating the anonymous guest. That's been tried before too. Then, you tried making this appeal to the forum at large, to get them to help you gang up on the anon guest. That one has been tried a million times by others as well.

How about you try this for a tactic: grow up, and learn to check your ego at the door before entering into online chat forums to disrupt other people's serious conversations with your lame "witty" banter. It is rude. The fact that the someone who calls you out on it isn't the issue, your rudeness is.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 04:12 PM

Actually I like the idea that the chat rooms have. The ones I have seen have a little button the allows you to "ignore" anyone you choose by selecting their name. Put in "guest" with no other monicker and voila you get blank space where they posted. I tend to read the first few sentences of their posts. If they don't make it through a few without insulting the poster instead of actually debating then I might read more. Mostly I self edit. It's a shame, I might miss some good points but I don't need to learn from anyone who wants to use bullying tactics while posting.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: jacqui.c
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 04:37 PM

I've started my own tactic with this type. I just ignore them. Don't rise to the bait. This works very well with children and I can't see that it shouldn't work just as well with adults who behave in a similar manner. As I've said before - sometimes a post of that type gives pause to look at my own point of view and to check on its validity so can be of use but if it looks as if someone is just trying to yank my chain then why give them the satisfaction of a reply?


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 04:39 PM

Chief Chaos, Mudcat members have long had the ability to filter out guest postings. That isn't the problem here. The problem is, they don't like that as a solution to them getting pissed off at guests.

They would prefer being able to line people up on "their" side, and suck people into their petty tantrums, when an anon guest gets the better of them in a thread, and they come off looking foolish. What they really want is revenge.

If what they were interested in was participating in forums without getting their blood pressure up (which is what filters allow you to do--filter out the people you find unpleasant to deal with, which is the mature way of doing things online), they would just use the damn filters.

Obviously, they want to start something, not end it. Otherwise they wouldn't start these sorts of ridiculous threads, trying to get everybody on their band wagon.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 04:42 PM

I've never really felt the need to filter out anything on this forum.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 04:43 PM

Or as jacquic suggests, they could ignore the posters they don't like too. That would also be a mature response.

But then, these sorts of threads never get started by mature people...


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 05:01 PM

Could you name the mature people on the forum, so we know whose postings we should give our attention to in the future?


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 05:08 PM

I think Clinton Hammond, for example, is very mature, although he's frequently wrong and stubborn as hell...but I like him. There's a start, eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Blackcatter
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 05:26 PM

Sorry Brucie - I would tend to agree with you but I ignore the idiot GUESTS only about 80% of the time. As was mentioned, this has been a topic of discussion forever and all it does is give the idiot GUESTS more ammunition.

By the way - my theory is that GUESTS are like shit - absolutely needed in life, but not particularly useful, not nice to deal with, and not something you want around the house.

Most of them disappear after awhile, which is nice because there's always new ones with other points of view that are just as stupid.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 05:32 PM

One of life's great mysteries is why all the people who have a serious problem about sharing a board with guests persist in posting on a board that admits guest posts. There are plenty that don't.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 05:43 PM

Looks like it's back to the enlightenment drawing board for Little Hawk. Again.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Blackcatter
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 05:43 PM

Hey Peter,

We post here because of the Mudcat - not the GUESTS. And nearly all of us agree that the GUEST concept is good and useful - it's just abused by people.

The Mudcat is a unique site - something very unusual in an internet where website after website "cuts and pastes" other people's works and don't consider it stealing.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 05:51 PM

Ah Blackcatter, guests ARE part of Mudcat. And don't forget, membership is used by plenty of posters here too--especially as a means of engaging in their favorite sport of guest flaming. That is why so many of them stay here. They get positive feedback from enough of the membership for a behavior that isn't tolerated in most member only forums.

And as to the cut and paste thing, it is a phenomenon all over the net.

Which means Mudcat isn't quite as unique as most here seem to think it is. It really isn't any different than any other chat forums, email lists, or newsgroups with folk music as the organizing principle.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Amos
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 05:59 PM

Well, sweetie, as long as we are being consdescending, superior and mysterious, folkmusic may be a topic, but it sure is not any kind of organizing principle,. Wlel, maybe like "you do your thing and I'll do my thing and nobody do anything in the middle" is an organizing principle!!

A


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: kendall
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 06:28 PM

One person can not "Start" a fight. A fight only happens when another reacts.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST,Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 06:49 PM

From Mudcat FAQ – Newcomer's Guide:
    I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it many times more: the best way to deal with both flamers and trolls is to ignore them. Give them silence, and they'll go away. They feed on attention - don't give it to them.
Experience has shown this over and over again. The old-timers here have gotten tired of repeating it. But there will always be newcomers who don't know the drill, and will engage in never-ending debates with trolls. The advice is right there in the Newcomer's Guide, but the problem is getting people to read it. Maybe they everyone needs to have their own painful experience before this advice begins to make sense to them.

However, not everyone without a cookie is a troll.

A better rule is Don't respond to anyone who makes you angry. Apply this rule to old-timers as well as guests.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 07:30 PM

Oh, GUEST, you are hearing the voices again. And you're listening to them. You poor guy. Sooo much anger. Rejected are you? The rage when I suggested you be ignored. Oh. Terrible. Bottle fed, huh? Bye for now.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 07:44 PM

Don't sweat the guests. When you read most of their rants, they turn rude and start insulting others. No real discussions. They only listen to their own voice and then ridicule others. We've all seen cowards like this in real life- they throw a rock and run. Makes them feel important. They are having a laugh and for a brief moment their issues disappear. You can almost see that they are social outcasts, loners, unable to have relationship, usually suffering from anxiety over a small penis or something.   When people start calling them out they begin to whine about how they are persecuted (as witnessed in several threads).   Let them play. Most of them will be back in school on Monday and get picked on in gym class.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 07:59 PM

"A better rule is Don't respond to anyone who makes you angry. Apply this rule to old-timers as well as guests."

I agree Jim, that is the most sensible thing to do. There is good reason why it is on nearly every netiquette list I've come across on the web. Thanks for saying it most succinctly.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 08:00 PM

Major Cosmic Mystery:   Why are there so many more horses' asses than there are horses?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Once Famous
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 08:16 PM

I'll dismiss Don Firth's silly response above as just a tired old statement from a tired old man.

Now, as one who has recently come from guest status to member status, I really find no difference in how I deal with some here. There are members here who are smart and informative and there are others who think they are, but are not.

I always posted as Guest, Martin Gibson but found a few douche bags here who I so infuriated and were so lame in dealing with my detection and exposure of their bullshit, that the only defense they had was to attack me by posing as me. Hence, the emergence of Martin Gibson, Mudcat member.

People who post just as "Guest" post empty words because their empty identity has absolutely no impact. Who cares what you say. You are nameless and therefore, souless.

Hats off to posters like Brucie and Little Hawk who tell it like it is and don't have their shorts in a big clump up their ass like some others!


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 11:14 PM

Some people like their shorts in a big clump. They have as much right to enjoy themselves as the clump-free crowd. No one gets involved in the nastiness repeatedly who doesn't enjoy it. Their choice.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 01:36 AM

Like I say. . . .

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: kendall
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 07:36 AM

Oh yeah? well, your mother smokes corn silk and your father was a hamster.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 10:13 AM

Kendall, how dare you insult my father?! Of course he was a hamster, but you make that sound like a bad thing, something socially reprehesible.

Step outside and we'll settle this like men -- you bring the beer!


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 11:08 AM

Oh geeze, another GUEST thread...

Okay, fir the ump-teenth time, I like GUEST's. In a way, most folks here are GUEST's since very few actually use their real names.

I think what is important is the content of the posts. I find a lot of real meat and potatos in most of the GUEST posts. Sure, some of the stuff is rude but in no greater porportion than that of the registered folks...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 11:48 AM

This subject never fails to entertain me. It's a dead horse that has been beaten so many times that it's starting to hit back!

Meanwhile, the quest for enlightenment goes on... :-)

"You cannot see the World until you no longer see yourself."

A great Taoist teacher said that.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: kendall
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 11:51 AM

Ok, Rap, and if I'm late, start without me.

I also like guests, as long as they are house broken


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 02:45 PM

"You cannot see the World until you no longer see yourself."

So, like, that's like Dorothy clicking her heels? There's the source of subliminal power in that flick!

heric
(almost there :) )


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 02:48 PM

Which reminds me of a funny thing I saw on Lizzie McGuire. David Carradine guest starred as an aged Shaolin teacher. The trick to getting the pebble is you slap his hand from underneath, then grab it up high.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 03:46 PM

Not so easy is it brucie? You start the thread saying don't respond to the nameless GUESTs, and a few posts in, and you are doing just that.

It'd be much better if we could resolve to leave them alone, because one way another they do damage the place, largely by the way the issue can throw a thread off it's tracks. But I can't see it happening consistently, because once anyone starts getting drawn in to respond to a nameless Guest, others get drawn into the conversation too. What makes it more complicated is that in among the ,ass of wasters, every now and then a nameless GUEST makes a post that seems constructive, or raises a point that no one else has.

But one thing - when discussing this it's a mistake to use the tern GUEST for short, when what you mean is "nameless Guest" - posting as a GUEST with a handle is no problems to anyone, and no one ever objects to it. It's not a question of anonymity - in fact most Mudcatters are anonymous. The problem is one of confusion and lack of continuity, so if we get drawn into discussing with a nameless GUEST we don't know if it's the same person two posts running. (And if people start talking about GUESTs in this context you can be sure someone is launch the canard that there is something against GUESTs as such, and newcomers can even be taken in by that one for a bit.)

I suppose there must be some kind of reason underlying this practice - when it's come up, the answers always seem to be in terms of anonymity, which are cleanly nothing whatsoever to do with it.

Which rather implies that the reason people do it is because they get a kick out of the notion that it might annoy other people. I'd have thought knocking on doors and running away would be more fun, but maybe they do that as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 04:28 PM

Mc G of H,

Thank you for being kind enough to show your concern. Always nice to encounter my conscience. However, I decided to go against my own suggestion which was shot down by a few people and try to be as 'fuck you and in yer face' as the GUEST. He is a chicken shit. So, why should I try to be nice to anyone who doesn't have the balls to argue under his own name? He's a failed artsy type witrh a grudge against people who don't take all his issues as seriously as he feels they should be taken. So, thanks, but no thanks.

Bruce M


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 04:50 PM

See, brucie, you've built up a picture of the person, as if you actually knew anything at all about them. But you don't even know it's a "he", for example; you don't know whether the three posts by "GUEST" in this thread are all the same person, or two people, or three. And you don't know if there really is someone out there who, as you suggest, actually cares about stuff like not being taken seriously, or if there is just some joker with a warped snse of what is fun. I'd suspect more likely the latter.

It's not worth falling into the trap of providing any kind of emotional response. It's a game, and an angry response is a kind of score. "Like shooting fish in a barrel" was the way one nameless GUEST used to put it, gleefully commenting on the way that he or she had managed to rattle some cages successfully. Don't feed them.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 05:54 PM

but i like food...


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 05:55 PM

Guest Heric,

When it came time for my pebble test I kicked the old know it all in the balls and picked the pebble from his hand as he lay gasping on the ground. There's more than one way to skin the master!


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 06:23 PM

True, Mc G of H. However, this one IS a he. But, I will let it go. Thanks.. BM


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 06:45 PM

If he was a gifted master your attempted kick to his balls would land you flat on your back, Chief, with the wind knocked out of you. Those disciplines are based on using people's own misguided aggressiveness against them, until they smarten up and stop attacking others.

But I realize you wuz just kiddin' around... :-)

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 07:37 PM

McGrath

- posting as a GUEST with a handle is no problem to anyone, and no one ever objects to it.

Dealing with a series of anonymous GUESTS may be confusing and require considerable effort to keep the posts in context but I see it as no more than rudeness on their part.

"GUEST with a handle" may help to keep track of things but it doesn't equate to being a member. Members have unique Mudcat names, even if they are pseudonyms. Martin Gibson became a member precisely because he had a problem with others usurping his "GUEST with a handle". This type of abuse of privilege is far worse than the anonymous GUEST. It is, at best, mischievous but if, as seems possible, it is done by a member who has logged out then it is despicable.

Another problem is multi-posting from one person using lots of different GUEST handles so that an argument appears to have greater weight due to its breadth of support.

Polite and honest contributors who make reasoned arguments or provide useful information should be welcomed, whatever they want to call themselves. The mis-use of "GUEST with a handle" is fraudulent and lets Mudcat down badly.




Doug C


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 08:00 PM

Posting as a Guest with a handle can mean a problem of this sort, for the person involved, but not for other people. There are various reasons people sometimes have to do it this way, because the computer they are using is set up so as not to allow cookies.

And there are newcomers who feel uneasy becoming a member because they've picked up a tendency to be cautious from experience elsewhere in the net, where it is very sensible sometimes to avoid giving personal details to sites you aren't sure about.

But people who come in as GUESTs, but who use a handle (their own handle) are not a problem per se (though of course people, including members, can use this facility to post in ways that do cause upsets.)

Nameless GUESTs on the other hand do tend to cause a kind of problem, by virtue of their namelessness, even when their posts are quite harmless.

Posting in someone else's name is always wrong. In a sense, that is one reason why posting as nameless GUEST is a bad idea, because it involves posting in the "same name" as all the other nameless GUESTSA. Just click on GUEST at the head of some nameless GUEST's post, and see what I mean when the list of all the previous posts by nameless GUESTs scrolls up on the screen.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: M.Ted
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 11:02 PM

It is possible the powers that be to make it:

1) impossible for anyone to post without a handle
2) impossible for anyone to post without being a member
3)impossible to post without using a valid e-mail address

There are other forums that use these devices, but, like it or not, Mudcat does not--that means that some people are going to post anonymously, and you must learn to deal with it the best way you can.

Remember also that, anonymous or not, people tend to say what they want, whether in reply to something, or just out of the blue--you must learn to deal with this in the best way you can, as well.

If it helps at all, you may think about anonymous guest posts as simply being "comments posted without attribution"--


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 12 Apr 04 - 06:31 AM

Brucie, I do understand how angry you can feel, but you are still in charge of your responses to GUEST whoever he/she might be. It's like the playground bully. Ask yourself how you responded then, and it may tell you something of why you get upset now. Me, I hold with no censorship, as that one is a slippery slope, but if I skim a reply and realize it's only there to push my buttons, I "blip" over it, as Charley Brown so wisely used to say. There is so much worth reading on so many different threads, that it's up to you as to how much time you're willing to spend being angry and responsive to GUEST (or anyone else for that matter) or moving onto the posts you either enjoy, or offer something worth pondering...yes?..xx..(your cat-loving friend)..e


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Apr 04 - 09:20 AM

Ignore them. To me, they are simply boors who would act rudely in another's house, deliberately spilling chili on the carpet, scratching the antiques with the bent rivets in their jeans, and tearing the carpet up with their locked-rowel spurs. I'm certain that they talk loudly during concerts, leave their cell phone's ringer set on "highest" in church, smoke in non-smoking areas, and illegally park in handicapped spaces.

I also have opinions about their personal, hygienic, sexual, and work habits as well as their tastes in music, art, food, and lifestyle.

But I digress; just ignore them.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Apr 04 - 11:04 AM

My, what a fine lot of perfect human beings, members be.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Apr 04 - 11:29 AM

I like the forum as it is, and I don't use filters. Now here is the great opportunity that is provided by abusive, sarcastic, smugly superior, insulting, hostile, devious, maliciously-inclined, anonymous, and nameless Guests....to members of this forum:

They provide us members with an opportunity to learn how NOT to let our buttons be pushed. This can be a very useful learning experience if you are willing to let it be.

I used to play chess on an internet site. You would just log on, and start playing with whoever else logged on. One time I got some kid who was just there to fuck around and irritate people. He made a few dumb opening moves, and kept typing in various obscene remarks in between them to me on the bottom of the page, below the chessboard.

Did I get mad? No. Why would I get mad? What good would it do? No, I was really amused that anyone would bother to do that on a chess site. I replied to his remarks with responses such as... "Really?" "How often?" "Does your mother know you talk like this?" "I think you've got me confused with someone else." "Gosh, tell me more!" and so on...

I thoroughly enjoyed the whole incident, which only lasted about 3 minutes. Then whoever it was ran out of dirty words, figured it wasn't much fun talking to me anyway, and logged off.

Now I could have ruined my whole day by raging around about it indignantly, dumping my frustration on whoever else was nearby, dashing off a furious email to the administrator of the chess site DEMANDING that something be done to screen out such people, etc... (yawn)

No, folks, these assholes that attempt to pull your chain anonymously on the Net are simply giving you a heaven-sent opportunity to master yourself and become stronger and happier in the process. Whether they realize it or not!

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 12 Apr 04 - 12:08 PM

Check and Mate..x..e


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Apr 04 - 04:15 PM

I must say I have disagreed with some of Martin G's posts in the past but People who post just as "Guest" post empty words because their empty identity has absolutely no impact. Who cares what you say. You are nameless and therefore, souless. hits the nail on the head.

Just don't worry, Brucie. You can prove exactly who you are. People can speak to you and meet you in the real world. You have no qualms about giving people deatils of where you are, who you are and what you will be doing. The anonymous guest has no such proof of his or her identity. Why worry about someone who cannot prove who they are? Just throw them a few crumbs every now and again and enjoy the laughs you can have watching them swell up, bluster and then burst like the empty vessels thatmost of them are:-)

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 12 Apr 04 - 04:33 PM

LH -

We had an exercise awhile ago requiring two teams to get to the other side of a square divided by a rope. they were awful astounded when we all just exchanged sides peacefully. I'm not sure what they expected but apparently that had never happened before in their experience.

I don't have a problem with people posting controversial threads. I stumped a whole group by saying: accept that the current medical system in this country is hosed; you don't like socialized medicine and things have got to change, what's your suggestion?

All I kept getting back was communism, negative comments about me, etc.
Not one suggestion of how to fix the system.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Apr 04 - 04:50 PM

Yes, it's ironical isn't it, Bruce? It's just like the reaction you would have gotten in the early 1700's by suggesting that there are better ways to run a society than by a hereditary monarchy...or that women should have the right to vote!...or that slavery is unjustifiable...or...

People tend to just conform automatically to the stupidities of the system they grew up in.

The only answer to proper medical coverage for a large population in modern times is socialized medicine, available to all citizens on an equal basis without prejudice or restriction. Who pays for it? Everybody. Just like we all pay to have schools and a police force and a fire department and an armed forces (more socialism).

I have seen a properly socialized medical system...in Cuba. Their main and only problem is that the American embargo keeps them short of needed pharmaceutical and medical supplies. I have also seen a reasonably properly socialized medical system in Canada...not bad...but it's got a few holes in it here and there. Most of western Europe has socialized medical systems.

People who think that's Communism have actually barely done any real thinking at all on the subject. They're as out of touch as people who still think the World is flat.

But they just go on believing what corporate Big Brother tells them...

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST,Shlio
Date: 12 Apr 04 - 05:02 PM

One "comment without attribution" on this thread has been:

My, what a fine lot of perfect human beings, members be. (Date: 12 Apr 04 - 11:04 AM)

I agree. I have never come across a friendlier (well, most of the time) or more helpful bunch of people on the net. Well put, GUEST.

(Sadly, as you have no handle, I can't compare this comment with others you've made to see if you were being subtly sarcastic, so I'll assume that you're simply a fine, upstanding citizen, telling the truth as you know it)

As for the Guests who come here to start fights, they tend to get squashed after a while.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: LilyFestre
Date: 12 Apr 04 - 07:34 PM

Don.....ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!

Reminds me of another favorite....if the universe is expanding, why the hell can't I find a parking space?!!?!?!?!??!!?

*G*

Michelle


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 13 Apr 04 - 12:07 PM

Ya gotta see the weiner dog thread--I'm trivializing this one, relegating it to the dustbin of posterity, wrapping it up, saying goodbye, nodding off . . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 04 - 12:22 PM

When an ASS teroid enters our atmosphere we can run away, deal with it or hope it hits an unpopulated area. It might bring needed water or elements as well as infectious plague.

The reasons for being annonymous are either good or evil, but usually a fear of evil.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Apr 04 - 12:44 PM

'ol Martin Gibson, in his curmudgeonly manner, has driven home a point that some of us have been making for years....that it is just as convenient and a lot less confusing, to not only post with a regular name, but to BE a member. He (Martin) is still using a pseudonym, saying what he wishes, and NOT being imped.

But that sort of logic is lost on those who simply get off on being able to pull folks chains from behind the curtain.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST,humph
Date: 13 Apr 04 - 12:47 PM

brucie - you are insulting a whole bunch of perfectly nice people, who for reasons of their own don't wish to be identifiable.
there may be some git guests, but there's some git members too.
why get so hot under the collar about it.
i post as a guest, i use different nom-de-plume at different times BECAUSE i want to remain anonymous. it really doesn't matter, so long as I am identifiable within the thread.
once i was a member - but after a particularly nasty exchange of views with another member i decided that anonymity was the rational choice. i really can't see a reason why that is not ok. and i won't be bullied into doing otherwise.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Apr 04 - 01:04 PM

Humph - It is sort of like having the best of both worlds isn't it? In "real life" when we have a discussion, we normally know who we are dealing with. We can at least see and identify a person, even if we do not know their name.

The problem with "anonymous" posters is that they don't have the courtesy to do that. Sure we can ignore them, but I've seen many who make up "facts" and use a tone that makes them sound credible. When you question their statement, they then attact you.

If I were to divulge that Guest Humph is a well known bedwetter with ties to the communist party and an unnatural attraction to sheep, I could state that as a fact and not hurt anyone.   If Guest Humph were to make the same accusation to me, they could run and hide and come back without any stigma. Is that right??

Frankly everyone posting on these boards - even if they are members, are really anonymous. Some of us choose to use our real names, but other handles are really masks - the same a "guest". How would I know who Brucie, Bill D or Little Hawk are? Unless they choose to submit personal information, those names are just as anonymous as your "guest".    The big difference is that their "handle" is sort of a place holder. They develop a personality through their posts and when we have discussions, the rest of us have an idea of the person we are talking to.    Trolls, I mean guests, are simply spouting words that may or may not have any validity.   Why have a conversation sidetracked in such a manner?


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Apr 04 - 04:38 PM

Yes, and it's more fun getting to know a particular personality over a period of time than merely reacting to a specific set of words from the great unknown. It is even possible to get to like the people you frequently disagree with over certain issues. You can't do that if you don't have some idea who you are talking to. Still, "Humph", I can understand your wish to lie low, given your particular past experience on the forum.

By the way, Brucie snorts gerbils and has been known to dress like Jerry Lewis and sing like Tony Clifton. He lacks discretion.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 13 Apr 04 - 04:47 PM

Hamsters, LH, hamsters. Who told you about the Jerry Lewis stuff?

Hey Humph, if the shoe don't fit, don't wear it. OK?


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 13 Apr 04 - 05:24 PM

What started this for me was GUESTs who insult. I know who they are, and in future I will avoid their posts under their own names. Life has its ups. Thanks for all the good advice.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Apr 04 - 05:25 PM

"Humph - It is sort of like having the best of both worlds isn't it? In "real life" when we have a discussion, we normally know who we are dealing with. We can at least see and identify a person, even if we do not know their name."

Ron, you do realize that this isn't real life, don't you?

Or perhaps you don't. So let me explain. This is the internet. On the internet, people are communicating from many different places around the world. You will rarely encounter most people you communicate with in chat rooms. It is fine and dandy if you do, but to EXPECT that you are going to know who the people are with whom you are communicating in a chat room/forum is, well...idiotic.

The majority of members don't even use their real names. And how many members are there that don't post to the forum at all? As someone further up the line said (a member, as I recall), if you have a tremendous fear of/annoyance level with anonymous posting, then you should limit your internet activities to forums where anonymous posting is not allowed, rather than attacking, and attempting to shame and humiliate those who choose to be anonymous in a forum that allows them to post anonymously.

I know that sending this message is the equivalent of shouting into a hurricane, but there you have it.

Can't stand anonymous posters? Find a forum that doesn't allow them. Aren't willing to do that, and prefer attacking the anonymous posters when they annoy you?

That is YOUR choice, which also makes it YOUR PROBLEM. Not the guests' problem. YOURS, PEOPLE!!! NOT MINE!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Apr 04 - 05:30 PM

Or as Chongo would say, "KREE-GAH!!!"


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Apr 04 - 05:32 PM

Thanks guest. Your last post proved our point exactly! Thanks for the example Guest!

You avoided my points, chose to insult, and now you can hide.

You also feel that you are being attacked which points out the paranoia factor.   Nobody is attacking YOU. We are making points and then you turn it around as an attack. Shame on you!


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Apr 04 - 05:44 PM

Looks like some of you fellas were panting around this thread, waiting to pounce.

Maybe the more serious problem is some of you don't have a real life.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 13 Apr 04 - 05:50 PM

Panting around this thread: Neat phrasing.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Apr 04 - 06:43 PM

Waiting to pounce? More insults?

Again, why can't you have a discussion without trying to portray yourself as persecuted? There is nothing wrong with good, honest discussion. Don't be so easily offended when others do not agree with you.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Apr 04 - 10:23 PM

Perhaps, Ron, the anonymous "Guest" is so absolutely that a true discussion would be both irrelevant and unnecessary.

In that case, we will no longer be troubled by an anonymous "Guest" since s/he will very soon ascend out of here.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 02:20 AM

An Outside Observation: Most of the regulars on the mudcat seem like nice people who try to be helpful. I post under various "GUEST" identities and try to be equally helpful where I can. There are "members" who appear to be a bubble-and-a-half off the level. Some members seem to have come from a different planet altogether. Other members post such unintelligible drizzle that I despair for the future of humanity. Some just can't type and/or spell and/or have any inkling of the rules of grammar. (jOhN Of hUlL - consider night school!)
Then there are the members who would like the Mudcat to be a closed little community where they can bask the reflected glow of their own narrow-minded pseudo-intellectual pontifications. Some of these are simply egotistic, opinionated assholes who attack GUEST postings at the merest slight. These are the people from whom I shield my name or where I live. (The web is never completely anonymous - Joe and the other Mudcat webmasters know who sends every post.)         
Blackcatter is one of these people - but he has a particularly easy-to-tweak weak spot on his beloved whistles which tends to make him go apoplectic and use bad language toward GUESTS.
Brucie is more even-tempered and will consider a GUEST post on its merits before attacking the stupid ones.
Clinton Hammond should have been drowned at birth (OK, maybe he was and what we hear from today is really his own placenta!)
Caveat: The comments above are directed to those on the porch and are in no way intended to demean those honest folks in the BS threads down below!
Long live the Mudcat in its present form!


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 02:59 AM

this is misic site, not speliing site, so just get lost.john


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 11:21 AM

"Clinton Hammond should have been drowned at birth..."

LOL! Well, there are moments when I think that too, like when he resolved to execute the skunk that had the bad luck to move in under his porch. Clinton is a strange duck, but I hear that he's a fine musician.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST,Bee
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 11:51 AM

"this is misic site, not speliing site, so just get lost.john"

Please define "misic" and "speliing." I don't understand what they are.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 11:53 AM

I don't know about misic or speliing, but Doc Watson does my favorite version of "Lost John."


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Strick
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 11:54 AM

"Clinton Hammond should have been drowned at birth (OK, maybe he was and what we hear from today is really his own placenta!)"

I'm hoping that was tongue-in-cheek. He can be cranky from time to time, but he's not that bad!


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 11:55 AM

Keep in mind that jOHN is not human. He's a snig. Snigs spell very badly, and they are often somewhat incoherent. What's more, they don't care. To understand a snig you have to read between the lines.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 12:40 PM

Well guys, no one seems to be fighting much on this post anymore, (hey brucie, how's the search going for that special someone...or something?)

I've laughed a lot here, so maybe that's the best answer...xx..e


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 12:47 PM

". . . a bubble-and-a-half off the level." I have never heard that one before. LOL. I will be using that for a while. Thank you, GUEST, guest. Made my day.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 01:53 PM

Clinton did you really do that?! LOL. My uncle did the same thing - SHOT a skunk under his porch.

I've never heard of snigs, but it seems they write very well.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 03:28 PM

Clinton Hammond is a ruthless, opinionated, malicious skunk-murderer of the worst sort. He is without scruples or pity. His presence is less than totally desirable. His wardrobe lacks spontaneity. His only redeeming feature is a fondness for the show "Trailer Park Boys".


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 03:43 PM

Hey, what are you implying? My wardrobe lacks spontenaity! 'Course, it lacks a lot of things, like belts and trousers, too.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 03:54 PM

I am inferring, Rapaire, that you are in dire need of a paisley jumpsuit and something fetching in, say, avocado or melba peach?


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 04:11 PM

Anyone who murders a skunk is a friend of mine!!


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 04:21 PM

LH, I saw Rapper's picture. The melba-peach would clash. Have some taste fer gawd's sake.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 04:22 PM

Also, before I say a thing: is Clinton Hammond a Shatner fan?


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 04:26 PM

I don't think so. I think he reviles and spits on Shatner, but I am not absolutely sure about that.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 04:27 PM

If anyone is a Shatner fan, I would completely understand why they would wish to remain anonymous. There is help out there!


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 04:42 PM

Ron,

When LH and I design the William Shatner blow-up doll, we are sending the first one to you. We will have it opened and inflated in front of ALL your neighbours. You are treading on v e r y thin ice. You wanna make remarks about Bush, Martin, Blair, even the Pope, hey it's a free country. But ya gotta understand where the line is. Know what I mean? yer friend,

X


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 04:52 PM

Having just visited Billy-Bob's website (which is blocked by most Internet filters), I have just one question: What's this obsession with paintball??


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 05:00 PM

It's part of his gungho personality, man! He's very macho. He likes shooting things.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 06:30 PM

So do I, but I don't point things that shoot at people (anymore than I have to).


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 07:03 PM

"The reasons for being anonymous are either good or evil, but usually a fear of evil."

Once again the assumption that this is something to do with "anonymity" - but posting without a label of any kind is nothing to do with merely wanting to be anonymous. You can be just as anonymous by posting as, for example, "GUEST,humph" (" i use different nom-de-plume at different times BECAUSE i want to remain anonymous.") as by posting as "GUEST".

I don't know why nameless GUESTs do it. Some obviously do it to get up the nose of people who don't like the practice ("Looks like some of you fellas were panting around this thread, waiting to pounce.), and there may be other reasons - but it sure as hell isn't anything to do with merely wishing to be anonymous.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 12:05 AM

Maybe they are just too lazy or impatient to type in a name...

Anonymity is clearly not the issue, because most of us ARE anonymous in any case.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: el ted
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 03:36 AM

Would anyone mind if I just popped in here and took the 100th post?


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 04:29 AM

damn, missed again!


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 04:30 AM

How come no one has posted (yet) - to request that someone closes this thread down?

Does this indicate signs of a little progress?


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: el ted
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 04:42 AM

Close this thread down now! I got 100, this thread no longer has any worth!


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 04:49 AM

My name is Harry Worth


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 09:00 AM

"How come no one has posted (yet) - to request that someone closes this thread down?

Does this indicate signs of a little progress?"

For the members, perhaps. The fact that the thread exists rather contradicts the idea of progress, however.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 11:29 AM

Notice how there's never any indication by a nameless GUEST of any reason for the namelessness (aside from getting up the nose of people who don't like the practice)?

Sometimes a mention of "anonymity", which is completely irrelevant, sine using a name in no ways detracts from anonymity, sometimes "If I choose to, so what - it's legal", which is equally beside the point. Frequently "you people hate all GUESTs", which is quite untrue.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 11:47 AM

Well McGrath I hope you understood what you have just above, I doubt if others will !


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 01:38 PM

I got it quite clearly...


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 02:03 PM

I understood. What part did you not get?


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 02:14 PM

Once again then. In a version which is slightly less contracted:

I draw to the notice of people reading this thread the fact that there is never any indication given by any nameless GUEST of any reason which they have for choosing to post without any kind of name, however temporary, attached to "GUEST". (I leave aside the motive of causing irritation to people who dislike this practice, which on occasion some nameless GUESTS have implied they find enjoyable.)

Sometimes a nameless GUEST has mentioned "anonymity" as a reason for not using a pseudonym of any kind along with GUEST; however this appears to be completely irrelevant, since the use of a name or pseudonym in no way means that the user is any less anonymous. Sometimes the response has been of the form "If I choose to, so what - it's legal", which is equally beside the point, since the fact that something is legal is not in itself a reason for choosing to do it. Frequently the response is of the form "you people hate all GUESTs", which is quite untrue. (Most GUESTS are happy to use a name or pseudonym.)


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 02:38 PM

I agree that we are anonymous, whether we use a handle or not. However, this perception is evidently not universally shared.

Every now and again, a poster will go nameless on a certain subject, i.e., "I'm a long time member but it would be too embarrassing to reveal my name in connection with this problem", etc.

And what about those threads where it is quite obvious that a member is weighing in on a controversial subject? Are we really that afraid? What do we fear?

I respect the impulse to put a 'real life' name onto an opinion that one knows not everyone shares.

Elva Bontrager


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 02:59 PM

Real evidence of progress among members would show they had matured as internet chat room/forum users, and hopefully as adults (though I'm not holding my breath) for there to never be another whining thread in this forum again.

That would show that, despite their displeasure about the forum rules, the membership had decided to accept the process for posting, without any more complaint.

What are the odds of that happening, considering this thread is now well over 100 posts, the vast majority of which are from members who just want to gripe about this particular rule that they so dislike?


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 03:04 PM

Split infinitives, not personalities.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 03:18 PM

Gee Guest, I never would have suspected you were a Republican.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 04:07 PM

GUEST Date: 15 Apr 04 - 02:59 PM,

One of the factors that keeps this a present issue is that new folks join and don't know this is old, old ground. They start out trying to be helpful and ask a question or make a suggestion, sometimes trying to be funny about it, and then the oldtimers' old feelings get brought back to the fore, and they pile on trying to make their points more clearly each time.

Included in these rehash cycles are the old familiar flames about people's feelings, feelings about feelings, and feelings about feelings about feelings.

So whining about the threads like this isn't exactly helpful, either, then, is it?

Guess it just indicates that people are people and tend to do things over and over, even when they've been proven not to work! And that for all the type and hype, a practical solution that will please everyone has not yet manifested.

I wonder what would happen if, everytime one person here disrespected another one, the whole forum would crash for, say, ten minutes. (Of course this is magical thinking because who would we have define "disprespect" and adjudicate the cases?)

If we realized what it costs us all to slow each other down with bad feeling, would we tend to do anything differently?

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Once Famous
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 04:15 PM

What gets me about people who just post as "guest" is that I feel some are in their regular "identity" when they want to put on the image.

When they want to criticize, name call, or anything else that might spoil their reputation, they do it is a Guest.

I feel these types of people generally:

* Have no balls (or in female cases, ovaries)
* Are cowardly
* May be split personalities in real life
* Are closet cross-dressers


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 04:19 PM

You can't stop debate, and you can't expect everyone to accept "the way things are."

Threads like this had better continue if Mudcat is to survive and grow.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: harpgirl
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 05:14 PM

Well, I say we vote on whether or not to eliminate the ability to post as GUEST. Or wait, this is not a democracy, I forgot....It's a Maxocracy!!!!

I do not think that accepting things as they are without voicing discontent is a sign of maturity, however GUEST. I believe it is a sign that people still disagree about whether we should eliminate the ability to post as GUEST and have to use a membership name.

And hey, Max made a huge structural change when enough whining happened the last time we addressed this issue. Intermittant reinforcement is a very powerful reinforcement schedule. It guarantees that people will still whine to try to get Max to change things, again.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 08:34 AM

The change that was made was to keep BS out of the music threads. As I understand it, Max felt that was a legitimate complaint.

As I understand it, Max also shares many members feelings about guests posting without a consistent handle, but he isn't willing to change the log-in because he wants this to remain an open forum where anyone can post without registering.

I don't see that guest posting is a problem at all, now that members have settled down and seem a little less paranoid about guests as bogeymen. I don't know what caused the shift, although I attribute it somewhat at least to the few guests who consistently post without using a consistent handle, or any, who behave far better than many members.

The obnoxious and belligerent, once they realize they can get away with behaving badly so long as they become members, soon fit right in with the other obnoxious and belligerent members, and the members who tolerate and/or encourage them. But first they must show they are "on the right side" of membership, ie that they can flame guests with the best of them. It is one of the tests of becoming a member, though I'm quite sure this goes unnoticed by the members.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 08:52 AM

And really, is anyone here truly dumb enough to think that if there were no guest log-ins, that members would suddenly start behaving better?


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 11:17 AM

I'm sure that if we look hard we could find someone who IS that dumb...


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 01:05 PM

There are all kind of perfectly good reasons why a member might prefer to post on some occasion as a GUEST with a different name.

On the other hand I can think of no good reasons why anyone would choose to post as GUEST with no name (leaving aside when it happens by accident or inadvertance). And I note that none of the nameless GUESTs on this thread (or is there only one?) have chosen to suggest one.

"...if there were no guest log-ins" - this isn't ever about guest log-ins as such, it's about guest log-ins without any kind of name, however temporary. I know I keep on repeating this distinction - but it's one that keeps on getting blurred, because it is quicker to say "GUEST" than "nameless GUEST."


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST,Shlio
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 03:29 PM

This is such a non-controversial subject that for one of the first times, I'm agreeing with Martin Gibson :).

There was a thread not so long ago expounding the view that Bush brought people together by uniting them against him.

Nameless GUESTS starting fights seem to serve the same purpose (only without bloodshed).


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 03:34 PM

That's true, Shlio. Amusing, isn't it? Amazing as it may seem, there are people out there for whom quarreling with this forum is an ongoing emotional obsession. If the forum disappeared they would have to find something else to be upset about. (And I'd have a lot more time to devote to various of my other pursuits...)


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST,lurker
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 03:44 PM

Psycho Member

I can't seem to face up to the facts
I'm tense and nervous and I can't relax
I can't think 'cause my screen's on fire
Don't touch me
I'm a real live wire

Psycho Member
I hate GUESTS


Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-far better
Leave, leave leave leave leave our Mudcaaaaat
Psycho Member
I hate GUESTS
Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-far better
Leave, leave leave leave leave our Mudcaaaaat

You start a conversation you can't even finish it
You're talkin' a lot, but you're not sayin' anything
When I have nothing to say, my lips are sealed
Say something once, why say it again?

Psycho Member,
I hate GUESTS

Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-far better
Leave, leave leave leave leave our Mudcaaaaat
Psycho Member
I hate GUESTS
Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-far better
Leave, leave leave leave leave our Mudcaaaaat

We are vain and
We are blind
I hate people when they´re not polite

Psycho Member
I hate GUESTS

Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-far better
Leave, leave leave leave leave our Mudcaaaaat


Talkingheads got it right.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 05:28 PM

Not bad...


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 05:37 PM

Except NOBODY "hates GUESTS" as such.

It's when people insist on posting without any labels, (unlike the ones posting with pseudonyms - for example, "GUEST,lurker") that they invite criticism, and get it.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 08:07 PM

GUEST posters are chicken-shit people. If they had belief in what they say about others, they'd sign their real names. I have two of them aced for who they are--one gal and one guy. Ya can disguise lots, but some are so stupid as to use little-known words and then wonder why they are easy to 'find'. Gee, ya think?

On occasion, Guests will post under the guest label because an issue is very sensitive or so personal that they cannot sign their names. That I understand and appreciate. The others? No. They suck.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 09:16 PM

Alright, I take it back: Maybe I should have said NOBODY "hates GUESTS" as such, except brucie.   

I don't agree though.

"If they had belief in what they say about others, they'd sign their real names." Well, most people who post to the Mudcat as members don't use their real names. They have all kinds of weird and wonderful pseudonyms. That doesn't matter, they serve to distinguish posts from each other, so that it makes it possible to carry on a discussion. And it means you can get to know people over a number of threads, and build up friendships (and the reverse too, if that's what you are into). Often without having the faintest idea who the people are, or where in the round world they live.

And when people post as GUESTS, the same is true. No reason they should feel any obligation to put "their real names", any more than the rest of us.

For some people they have no choice but to post as GUESTS, because they are using computers that won't accept the cookie that goes with membership. And there are people who don't feel happy about joining anything online, probably because they have been burnt before, and haven't been around here long enough to trust us.

So far as members posting as GUEST with an alternative pseudonym goes, one reason, as brucie says, is because "an issue is very sensitive or so personal". There are other reasons - there are occasions when a post or two from someone such as "GUEST,Albert Einstein" might, for example, be a way of lightening a thread. I'm sure there are other reasons, and I can't see any harm in it. (When people use the facility utmost insults or personal attacks that they would not feel able to make in the open, that of course is quite a different thing.   But most GUEST posting by members is not like that.)

But what is never acceptable is to use the name under which someone else posts - and that is really why posting without any name at all is so unhelpful, because that is a "name£ which has been used by a great many people.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 17 Apr 04 - 09:13 PM

To quote Bill Fields, "On second thought, fu#k 'em!"


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Apr 04 - 11:35 PM

Here's a reason: maybe some GUESTs don't like pseudonyms, cutsie, clever, distinguishing, or otherwise. The date/time stamp serves well to distinguish one GUEST post from another. It doesn't do well in distinguishing one GUEST from another, but some GUESTs aren't too worried about that. Some members are.

If a benevolent GUEST is only concerned about the content of his/her post, then s/he often will not bother with a pseudonym, real name, or any other distinguishing moniker because, in most cases, the date/time stamp will take care of that for him/her.

Some responders don't like using the date/time stamp to distinguish between posts because it's tedious, clumsy, awkward, or otherwise inconvenient for the responder. Some GUESTs don't care about the responder's inconvenience, because the date/time stamp still serves a useful distinguishing purpose, regardless of its inconvenience. If a responder finds the date/time stamp too inconvenient, the responder can choose to forego a response.

If a GUEST wants to establish an historical reference, s/he can take credit for his/her posts by laying claim to a post via the date/time stamp. If a member doesn't trust this method of establishing a history because a member might argue that becoming a member is a more efficient way to establish a history, then we are pretty much back at square one regarding the member/GUEST issue, and "what we have here, is a failure to communicate." Some GUESTs invoke the Groucho Marx credo in this matter: "I wouldn't want to belong to a club that would have me as a member." (perhaps not a direct quote)

Some benevolent GUESTs realize that some malicious GUESTs use nameless GUEST postings to attack members or GUESTs. If a member chooses to deem all nameless GUEST postings as malicious, for whatever reason, this doesn't bother some benevolent GUESTs because they don't sweat being lumped in with malicious GUESTs. The benevolent GUESTs' posts are obviously not for them.      

Bottom line, it's all about personal choice. Some choices we make don't sit well with others, but thankfully, we don't have to live up to each others' expectations. We can choose to exercise a little personal freedom over some things. The bigger issue is, sadly, the list of things over which we can exercise freedom of choice is dwindling, but perhaps this last comment is more appropriate in another BS thread.

Best wishes, and a fruitful future to us all.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: John P
Date: 18 Apr 04 - 12:58 AM

I tend to treat folks in on-line forums the same way that I would treat people in the real world. At Mudcat I usually imagine that I'm at a meeting of the local folk club. I fall into conversations with people who are discussing things I'm interested in, and I don't much care whether or not I know their names. Anyone who is being an asshole gets walked away from, whether they are known to me or not. Someone who refuses to give a name when asked is behaviorly outside the lines for our society. If they are outside the lines at all, it is hard to tell how far outside the lines they are. I walk away from them. People who interrupt conversations with rude remarks get talked to sternly by the folks who are having the conversation. If they refuse to give their name, they are a wierdo and everyone tries to make them go away. If they refuse to go away, everyone else goes away, knowing that we can continue our conversation later when the wierdo isn't around.

Whenever I find myself in a situation like this at Mudcat, I just ask myself how I would respond if the person were standing in front of me.

John Peekstok


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 04 - 02:47 AM

"What gets me about people who just post as "guest" is that I feel some are in their regular "identity" when they want to put on the image."

Gibson, what gets me about people like you is that for all your high-mindedness, you don't realise that the only difference between you and me is that you are a 'guest' that can be PMed. Maybe you do... and you think we wont notice, or maybe you've forgotten already.
You have regularly stated on this forum that you can sling your chauvinistic ass out of here any time you want, and walk through the curtains back into your idyllic life... and it'll all be like it never happened.

No matter about your user name, you will still only be a 'named guest' here, as far as I'm concerned.

I?
I... an anonymous guest?
Who am I to offer an opinion?

Who are you to offer one?


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 18 Apr 04 - 06:16 AM

There is one other difference between Martin Gibson and yourself, GUEST: He cannot just be PMed, he can also be identified by name, traced, harassed, thumped on the nose. In other words, he takes full responsibility for his postings and offers his name and reputation to back them. So do others like Harvey Andrews, Clinton Hammond, Richard Bridge, etc. So do all the regular members who have posted their profiles, so they can be identified.

I have no problem with anyone coming in as a GUEST to post a genuine query, or to offer an opinion. I do have a problem with anonymous attacks and slander aimed at anyone. It reminds me of kids who ring the doorbell and then make a run for it. It has the same annoyance factor. But their words can never carry the weight of an eponymous poster.

So, in the full knowledge that you can look me up in the Members directory and PM me or even email me, harass me, come to my gigs and heckle me etc...:

...Piss off you little rascal...


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 18 Apr 04 - 06:34 AM

Just a few days ago, I posted a message as a GUEST on another thread. It was soon after I had posted as myself, but found I wanted to say something that I knew would be thought rude and I realized I didn't want to say it under my name because I didn't want the people involved to get angry with me.

It was very strange, really. I didn't feel any better afterwards, even when I got back the kind of response that would have floored me if it had been directed to my real name, and ultimately I've decided that being anonymous to say something really felt cowardly. If I didn't want to be known personally for having said what I said, I think the better reaction would have been to re-phrase my posting under my name in a way I could live with...I dunno, just my own thought on the subject, and under my own name!..xx..e


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Apr 04 - 07:16 AM

From: GUEST
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 04:49 AM
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 09:00 AM
GUEST 15 Apr 04 - 11:47 AM
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Apr 04 - 11:35 PM
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 04 - 02:47 AM

Is that one, two, three, four or five unnamed GUESTS?

If someone were to write a post responding to something one of them had said, would there be any way of knowing whether a subsequent poist from an unamed GUEST was a reply continuing the conversation, or an interjection by someone else?

Bsically, posting in the name of another person is anti-communication, and posting as an unamed GUEST is posting in the name of all the previous unamed GUESTs.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 18 Apr 04 - 07:27 AM

Ellenpoly, your thinking - and the fact thay you were honest enough to tell us about your little "cowardice" shows integrity. Bravo sou.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST,Jean Phillips. Very nice, well behaved GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 04 - 07:38 AM

I've noticed that whenever guest posters start fights, regular mudcat members are more than willing to don boxing gloves and join in. If guests are submitting posts that are designed just to irritate, annoy and be rude, for crying out loud just ignore them. Anyway, mudcat members (with real names or pseudonyms) are capable of being obnoxious and insulting to each other without the help of guests :-)

For those who really dislike the idea of guest posters you could:

Ask the site owner to get rid of the guest facillity
Leave this site and frequent ones without guest posters
Learn to ignore deliberately annoying guests

This is a very informative site with some real characters who can write well put together and witty posts, don't let annoying guest posters spoil it and don't think it would be all sweetness and light without them (and try not to put on the boxing gloves so readily ;-))


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Apr 04 - 08:35 AM

"For those who really dislike the idea of guest posters "

Once again - virtually NOBODY dislikes the idea of "guest posters". It's the people who post as GUESTS, but who don't add any kind of name or whatever to distinguish them from other people posting in the same way in the same threads who invite and receive criticism. Most people who post as GUESTs don't do that.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 04 - 08:35 AM

Voicing a differing opinion is not starting a fight. Although it is often seen as such on here. This is an open discussion board.

I wouldn't join a 'club' if I didn't agree with the rules. So why did you?

Some examples of guests starting fights would also be helpful.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 18 Apr 04 - 01:00 PM

GUEST: You can do the reasearch as easily as anyone else.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: John P
Date: 18 Apr 04 - 01:22 PM

I was recently involved in a discussion here that was started by an anonymous guest. At first everything went along as normal, and no one seemed to mind that the person who started the thread and took a large part in the discussion was anonymous. As the conversation progressed, however, the guest became increasingly strange, leveling personal attacks against those who disagreed with it, not responding to reasonable points made against its arguments, and just saying the same thing over and over again in progessively strident and unpleasant terms. At that point, the anonymous nature of the guest became an issue for several of us, and we expressed that. It wasn't the fact that the guest was anonymous that caused everyone else to walk away from the discussion, or the fact that it was rude (although rudeness never works to get your message across), but the combination of anonyminity and rudeness. The guest decided that we were reduced to flaming anonymous guests instead of continuing the discussion. It apparently didn't get the message (even though it was spelled out clearly) that folks were walking away not because of its anonyminity, but because it was rude, and its anonyminity raised its rudeness to the point of indicating the presence of a wierdo.

John Peekstok


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 04 - 05:00 PM

"He cannot just be PMed, he can also be identified by name, traced, harassed, thumped on the nose. In other words, he takes full responsibility for his postings and offers his name and reputation to back them."

Absolute hogwash!
There is no such person... just a bigoted asshole who likes guitars.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST,Shlio
Date: 18 Apr 04 - 05:48 PM

Aw, heck, GUEST of the 17 Apr 04 - 11:35 PM

By the time I've read your comments, thought of a useful and sensible response, and read the rest of these fine posts, the date and time's gone clean out of my poor head. Names are so much easier to remember than numbers.

Plus, I can't respond to any of the other, more recent, Guests now, 'cause I can only copy one date at a time.

I realise this is not your problem, and I should be clever enough to remember a stream of times, but I'm not. I doubt many others here can either.

As to the last GUEST - "There is no such person... just a bigoted asshole who likes guitars.
Yes, maybe, but we all know that he's one consistently...


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 18 Apr 04 - 06:18 PM

If you are discussing Martin Gibson, I will speak to that. You are wrong. Period.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 19 Apr 04 - 11:13 AM

"There is no such person... just a bigoted asshole who likes guitars"
Now who's the bigot ! ;-) Martin's liking guitars proves your point, GUEST, does it? Please do continue with your well-reasoned arguments, we are all eager to read the next installment of unattributable wisdom.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Apr 04 - 11:27 AM

Ah, John P, but how do you know whether the nameless GUEST who screwed up that thread was the same one as the nameless GUEST who started it? That's what's so stupid about the practice.

Just because something isn't actually banned is no reason why other people don't have a reasonable right to ask people not to do it. It's perfectly possible to post as a GUEST using a handle someone else has been using, but that doesn't mean that if, for example, someone else started posting here as "GUEST,Shlio", it wouldn't be reasonable to object to that happening. Posting as a nameless GUEST is just another way of doing essentially the same thing - it is posting in such a way as to confuse different people's identities.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Apr 04 - 02:57 PM

"Just because something isn't actually banned is no reason why other people don't have a reasonable right to ask people not to do it."

No McGrath, you don't have a "right" to make such demands in a forum that doesn't require anyone to do it. Now, I'm quite sure you and some other people feel strongly that your *expectation* of people filling in the From line be met, and maybe you do honestly believe it to be a birth right of some sort. But your expectation isn't even realistic, considering that Max has said he has no intention of changing the log-in and registration to post here.

BTW, it is quite simple and easy to open a second browser window, copy and paste the date/time off each post one wishes to reply to, and use that for the purpose of showing which post the current poster is responding. Everyone also has the ability to simply cut and paste the text they want to comment on in their own post. Not all that complicated, or difficult. You can respond to what is written easily, instead of to an real or pseudonymic identity.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 19 Apr 04 - 03:07 PM

Of the dozens of people who were members when I joined only a couple are still around these days.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Apr 04 - 03:25 PM

Hmmmm I'm back from a weekend trip.

The Guest who addressed me as "Gibson" you at least could have called me Mr. Gibson.

The probable same guest who referred to me as just a bigoted asshole who like guitars, you are nothing more than a skidmark in a toilet who has no life, and, is quite right that I do like guitars, but is quite wrong about me being a bigot. Please go off in a corner somewhere with your pathetically underdeveloped genitalia and take your life's frustrations out elsewhere. I just want you to know that I enjoy being as rude as I possibly can to you.

And that, John P. is what is so fun about a forum like this and it's difference in real life. I can if I want be so fucking rude to nameless, faceless jerkfaces when it suits me and not worry if they have a gun.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST,Shlio
Date: 19 Apr 04 - 04:18 PM

Welcome back, Mr. Gibson, sir.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 19 Apr 04 - 04:48 PM


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 19 Apr 04 - 04:49 PM

GUEST,sorefingers

Of the dozens of people who were members when I joined only a couple are still around these days.

There are more than two dozen people on this thread alone who were members or named GUESTS when you started posting.


Doug C


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Apr 04 - 04:55 PM

No one is making any "demands". A lot of people are making a very reasonable request. And most of the people to whom that request is addressed comply with it, otherwise the place would be crowded out with nameless GUESTS. It'd be a plague rather than a nuisance.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 19 Apr 04 - 09:58 PM

Mr Doug I am here a lot longer than you think.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST,Jellybean
Date: 19 Apr 04 - 10:30 PM

Martin Gibson sounds just like Lepus Rex. MUWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAA!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Apr 04 - 10:49 PM

Hey Gibson!

You enjoy being as rude as you possibly can to me, do you?
You weren't so fucking smart last week, when you had to go for your Jack Daniels and your cold shower, along with your little weiner dog, who has a habit of finding himself in the kitchen at parties.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

You seem to have a well developed genitalia/digestive system fixation, from what I can gather.
Did you have a trouble-free childhood?


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Apr 04 - 11:35 PM

GUEST Shlio,

Re your 18 Apr 04 - 05:48 PM


You seem to be a sensible and considerate person, so I am confident you will be able to figure out something that will be agreeable to all relevant parties.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 08:32 AM

From: GUEST
Date: 19 Apr 04 - 10:49 PM

From: GUEST
Date: 19 Apr 04 - 11:35 PM

Same person?


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 09:50 AM

Dunno, McGrath of Harlow. But he/she must be different from GUEST 18 Apr 04 - 02:47 AM , as he/she has not responded, so I assume he/she has pissed off as instructed.

It's safer to treat each unidentifiable GUEST as different from the others. They have to be told to piss off individually, if appropriate.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 09:55 AM

Why do you care?


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 10:03 AM

Why not?


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 10:50 AM

Because the anti-guests are the ones expending all their energy caring how people post, which is something they can't control.

Of course, it's pretty obvious this forum is for time wasters like myself, so no harm is done. It just is so amusing watching all the pompous asses in this thread, pontificating about their superiority to a group of people they purport to not care about.

Kind of like 12 year old boys obsessed with masturbating.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 10:58 AM

There's an idea, since I don't know where the hell Little Hawk's goat is.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 11:56 AM

You miss the point completely guest. So be it.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 12:48 PM

Mr Doug I am here a lot longer than you think

Ok, so there was one earlier posting back in October 2001 under the name "sorefingers" before you dropped back to being a named GUEST, but that still leaves 20 posters on this thread who were active at the time.

What's more, of the 20 people who welcomed you to Mudcat, only 6 of them have not posted this year. In fact, most of those who have posted, have done done so this month.

Sorry to nit-pick but sometimes impressions can be mistaken and mistakes are often taken as fact.



Doug C


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 01:01 PM

Guest (All I guess, because you can't tell one from another, so innocents get dragged in with the douche bag ones):

I had a great childhood. I'm still living it and enjoying it.

Your comebacks to me were not even close to being clever. Go contemplate the ring around Uranus.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 01:25 PM

Martin Gibson: You are as a breath of Spring; a zephyr of long-forgotten mountain air; a morass of metaphor in an alliterative sense. Welcome back.

Hey, GUEST that's having a go at Martin--bite me!


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 01:52 PM

Mr Doug Ok ... lol your researching is impressive and I am delighted that the Muddie is still a folkie's site. But you are still way off about when I began posting. Back in those wild Muddie days we had many names you don't know such as the other Doug?? See it ain't as easy as you think.

Also I suspect but cannot prove that some of the current GUEST postings are real members or exmembers having a giggle. Seriously when a person gets on this site and poses as an authority on the origin of folk songs/tunes, or an expert in some folk stuff, some of us out here who know the facts may express a little doubt, even if only in the form of a bloody good laugh.

Sometimes members take themselves too seriously in the company of wags, wits and clowns which in life survive by amusing not informing!


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 03:34 PM

Okay, I have to ask. Living in the U.S. all my life, I have come across the word "wag" but I've never really been sure on the definition. What is a "wag" exactly, and where did the phrase come from?

I know all about clowns. They usually end up running the country.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 03:38 PM

I have a theory about this Brit slang that no one here gets, and it's got something to do with wanking your wag.

British slang is certainly not too colorful.

Wank and wag sound like something off a boring PBS show that was imported from the BBC.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 03:44 PM

I knew it! We all know that Martin Gibson isn't your real name - but you've just given us a clue - you are really Roger Ebert!!! What are you up to Roger, giving some new material a try??   

:)


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 03:51 PM

Well, Ron you are right, Martin Gibson is not my real name, but as far as guitars go, everything else is a wannabe.

Naw, I'm not Roger Ebert, but I find he likes the movies I like.

Movies are so much like folk music. It doesn't have to always be about art or tradition. It can also be about entertainment.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 04:14 PM

Well put Martin!   I think we do forget about how important entertainment is and we ignore what makes us feel good.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 04:41 PM

Too true, as I have ignored Little Hawk's goat for what seems like a century.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST,sorfingers
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 04:50 PM

The word 'wag' means 'comic' 'put on' which I picked up from old movies /media.

Also since 'Wanking' is a place in China, Wank must be nearer.

A Wanky, then, is an American person who cannot say 'y'. Or in comic circles, a Yanky with a speech impediment is a Wanky, which all makes perfect sense when you know that America is half way to China if you are in Iceland.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 04:52 PM

Somehow I think my theory is closer to the truth...............


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 06:42 PM

GUEST Date: 20 Apr 04 - 10:50 AM - "time wasters like myself" - is it fair to assume that that applies to all the other people posting as unnamed GUESTS?

Makes life simpler to assume that to be the case.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 07:24 PM

I thought the ring was around Jupiter or Pluto or something.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 07:30 PM

Saturn, actually.

But both of you were close.

Pling!


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 11:38 PM

No, that Guest definately had a ring around Hisanus. Not yours.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 11:58 PM

Re Date: 20 Apr 04 - 06:42 PM


If it works for you, then Let It Be! (whisper words of wisdom, Let It Be)

(it definitely works for me - I've been called worse things than a "time waster" and come to think of it, those worse things I've been called never bothered me much either)

Let It Be.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Once Famous
Date: 21 Apr 04 - 12:11 AM

The Beatles were great folk artists, I completely agree, Guest.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 10:03 AM

We now appear to have unknown guests who are empowered to delete posts!

See this thread for details Deleted post


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 05:24 PM

We should start a thread called "MEMBER posters who start fights"

NOT!

Wise up Rog.........


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: TS
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 05:33 PM

Well..I was following this thread...but the more I read, the more I think this is simply a small tiff between a Mbr. and a specific Guest. I'm only saying this because I spent afew good yrs as a Guest, very much appreciating the info. and lyrics I received from Mudcat.....Slainte!


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