God wants armed nudists

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 04:11 PM

Little Hawk....you seek God which is all He wants.............what about others who post here?.......May the Lord Bless you all whatever.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 04:04 PM

Well, I won't argue with that... :-)   I certainly want God, that's for sure. I mean, I want conscious union with God, all the time.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 03:51 PM

God wants what He wants....if you don't know what He wants then seek it! God wants YOU! to be there for Him. Seek and ye shall find!.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 03:44 PM

How can the Infinite want anything? You have to lacking something already in order to want it, and you cannot lack anything when you are infinite. :-)

If people say God wants something, what they are really saying is that they want it.

What I just said will not seem credible if you think God is only existing "out there" somewhere at a separate distance from you. If He/She was by definition "out there somewhere" then He/She would not be infinite, because to be infinite means "in here" as well as "out there". It means: everywhere simultaneously.

My conclusion: God does not give a hoot about armed nudists. :-)

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 01:58 PM

So BB, what do you consider "the track" this thread is supposed to get back on, anyhow?

~S~

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 01:54 PM

and where does it say that? (grin)


In fact, I think that ANY point of view can be supported by direct quotes from whatever religious text one cares to look at. There are ALL written down and translated by (imperfect) human beings, each with his/her own predjudices and biases. Thus, the use of direct quotes is NOT a vilid argument that that Almighty ( in whatever form) has stated any preference about anything.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 01:47 PM

I have it on good Authority that He also wants fully-clothed pacifists, so no worries.

~S~

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 01:45 PM

any chance of getting back on track in this thread?

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Pogo
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 09:18 PM

*sigh*

I hear sounding brass and tinkling cymbals. And when I start hearing musical instruments urinating that's a baaaad sign

C'mon folks...let's get back to more theological discussion...like being nudists for God for pity's sake

;OP {OD

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 05:38 PM

Good one Bruce.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 05:07 PM

Yes, but if I am wrong we have 800 dead Americans... If you are wrong we have millions of dead Americans.


Not much vie at all...

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Jun 04 - 12:12 AM

Sure thing, BB. I didn't think you'd agree with me. :-) You enjoy your opinion, and I'll enjoy mine. There are already 800 dead Americans and maybe 20,000 wounded who would most likely be fine if they hadn't invaded Iraq...and these are the early days...but, man, we will never agree on this war and I know it. C'est la vie!

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 07:16 PM

"Iraq's status as a regional military threat ended in 1991."

So the us forces taht invaded in 2003 met no resistance?


" They never had a status as more than a regional military threat, "

Agreed, only because they did not have transportation to be global.


"and were certainly no threat to the USA at any time whatsoever. "

IF there were WMD, as were discovered by both the UN inspectors and the US troops, this is blatently false. Anyone who can gas 100,000 + of his own people is a credible threat to the US.

You did say any time whatsoever.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: 42
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 07:09 PM

Just to be the canine equivalent of Errol Flynn...are there any other kind of nudists?

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 06:54 PM

The statement you quoted was not mine. What part of it do you disagree with? And why?

A

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 06:15 PM

You made an unsubstatiated statement that I do not agree with.

It ain't so.

I was trying to be polite, since you seem to think that your idea of what should be must be true.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 05:49 PM

BB:

What do you mean exactly?

A

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 04:50 PM

"Iraq's status as a regional military threat ended in 1991. They never had a status as more than a regional military threat, and were certainly no threat to the USA at any time whatsoever. "

I do not agree with this statement.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 03:53 PM

The U.N. is a virtually toothless and often craven political entity, not an instrument of world justice.

Now, LH. Don't be judgemental!

A

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 03:49 PM

Well, BB, it goes this way: Prophets are generally ignored or not believed by the vast majority of people in their own time...BUT...they are recognized and believed by a few people. This is the usual rule. Then those few succeed over time in getting other people interested in the prophet's teachings and they gradually build a strong following.

So whether people believe you or don't believe you doesn't prove a darned thing one way or another!!!! Life's tough, ain't it? :-)

Now there have been some prophets, too, who were tremendously successful in their own time and WERE believed by a lot of people. Mohammed, for instance.

So any blanket statement about the matter is going to be wrong part of the time.

As for the U.N., what do I give a fig what they said about Iraq? They've passed rulings against Israel that were not responded to a number of times, and the USA has not yet invaded Israel to "enforce the will of the U.N." Ha! I laugh. The USA was enforcing its own will, not that of the U.N.

The U.N. is a virtually toothless and often craven political entity, not an instrument of world justice. Like all political entities it is subject to lobbying of various sorts by its major financial backers, depending on the situation. It is controlled by the security council, which is controlled by a few major powers...it does not effectively represent the nations of the World in an equal manner, although it pretends to. It does give them a place to talk, though, which is better than nothing.

Iraq's status as a regional military threat ended in 1991. They never had a status as more than a regional military threat, and were certainly no threat to the USA at any time whatsoever.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: GUEST,8=0)==
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 03:37 PM

Q What do you call nudist with an IQ of 180
A Smarter than the average bare. Phonetics Ch1 V1.
8<}=

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 02:59 PM

Even if you were, BB, we wouldn't notice it, according to the usual rules...

A

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 02:53 PM

LH:

But you keep seem to forget that the UN ( remember them) ONLY PROHIBITED IRAQ from having WMD. But that has been stated in the other thread(s). But if you acknowledge that I am right, I must not be a prophet...

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 01:34 PM

Agreement was not the point in my post, either. But never mind. What (Who) I can say that I know will be of no use to you, absent the openness TO know... the openness to being completely surprised by finding oneself on the other end of a line that has only been dead or full of static.

A

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 01:23 PM

The entire Universe as a single living entity sounds about right to me...

WMD's in Iraq? Well, of course there are...ever since the US military arrived! :-) They are the World's number one stockholder in WMD's, don't forget. They take 'em wherever they go. Israel also has a stockpile of undeclared WMD's sufficient to roast all the wieners you've got and then some!

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 12:15 PM

Amos, the "good fruit" is not always agreement.

bb, I dunno that I have anything terribly useful on each of your points. Let me see if I can address them singly.

My objection is to those people who tell me how to act, what to think, and what to feel because "God" told them to.

Well, my first thought was, what are you doing listening to people who tell you how to act? My second thought was, Ouch! It sounds like you ran into small people with yet smaller concepts of God.

If I do not agree that the Bible is more than the tribal myths and history of one group in one place, with large amounts of editing over the years by those in power in the attempt to control peoples actions and thoughts, why does that make me less moral?

It does not make ME see you as less moral; I can't speak for folks who would say that it does; and since I don't care to spend a lot of time with folks who make that kind of assumption about people, I can't say I really know what they are thinking or how their thought process got that way. Except for seeing that something must have hurt them into that narrowness of thinking, all I see from that attitude is that they are not yet what they say they mean to be.

WHy can't I be judged by others on my actions, my treatment of others, and the goals that I work for?

The paradigm of judgment here is not necessary.... neither self-judgment, judgment by others based on your beliefs, nor judgment by others based on your goals and actions.... you have complete flexibility of viewpoint. If you take your attention away from the judgmental aspects of an interaction, including whatever is judgmental within yourself, and inner fear of same--- be the bigger person, to use the language I used-- what might be possible?

I do not know if there is a "God"- Can you define what that term means? An old Caucasian man on a throne, watching each of us, and punishing "sin"? The entire Universe, as a single, living entity? The aliens who have a higher technology?

What (Who) I can say that I know will be of no use to you, absent the openness TO know... the openness to being completely surprised by someone else on the other end of a line that has only been dead or full of static. My own path to that openness may be of no value to you, but what I did was simply allow myself to contemplate who and what God said he was, Biblically. The rest flowed out of that. I was highly resistant, myself. Nobody was gonna talk ME into all that hooey!

My major objection is the deification of a book, written, edited, altered, translated and interpreted by humans as being "Holy".

I can't agree that deification of the book makes sense either, and that's not at all how I see it. I would have to think some more about a good answer for this one, but it wold be about seeing how God works in and through all of his creation, including people as individuals and people as groups.

If one chooses to believe that, just try reading what is in it...

I would have to spend some serious time studying all that I could know about these passages, to speak to your point on them. But not having done that, my instinct would be that their context should shed some light and lead to a different understanding.

A thought I heard recently that took root but which has not yet resulted in an articulable meditation is: God is not the author of confusion, and that whatever confuses me might resolve if I start from that basis.

The more I get to hear what others think and feel, the more I appreciate the Anglican heritage that encourages me to really think about my spiritual life and all it entails. I'm not much of a fan of organized religion as an institution, but I'm lucky to benefit from the institution's efforts to participate in the revealing of truth, over time.

So it works for me-- really well, with much good fruit along the way. It CAN work, and without that judgement thing taking up too much attention or energy.   

YMMV. YPMV. (pronouns)

I'm enjoying talking with you anyhow! :~)

~Susan

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 11:23 AM

"I just tell people this-- if your efforts to persuade have not borne good fruit, SOMEbody in the discussion isn't being what they say they mean to be, and usually it's TWO somebodies, not just one of them."


If you are trying to persuade someone of something that is not true, you will encounter very similar phenomena to those you encounter trying to communicate with someone who isn't really communicating. Viz, a decrease of understanding and an inflexibility of "space".   In live communication the "sense of space" increases.

A

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 10:45 AM

I have no problem with a God of that size- My objection is to those people who tell me how to act, what to think, and what to feel because "God" told them to. If I do not agree that the Bible is more than the tribal myths and history of one group in one place, with large amounts of editing over the years by those in power in the attempt to control peoples actions and thoughts, why does that make me less moral? WHy can't I be judged by others on my actions, my treatment of others, and the goals that I work for?

I do not know if here is a "God"- Can you define what that term means? An old Caucasian man on a throne, watching each of us, and punishing "sin"? The entire Universe, as a single, living entity? The aliens who have a higher technology?


My major objection is the deification of a book, written, edited, altered, translated and interpreted by humans as being "Holy".

If one chooses to believe that, just try reading what is in it:

Matthew 24:23
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
24:25
Behold, I have told you before.
24:26
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
24:27
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. "

IF I believed it was the word of God, here he is telling me not to believe all those trying to tell me to believe it.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 10:29 AM

Is it not possible for different people to have a different understanding of something, based on each person's own experiences and beliefs?

Quite right, bb... I was a bit carried away about the precise point I wanted to make. To tailor it to your question, I would say this-- the "different understanding" due to view and experience is one thing, and the conflict that comes instead of peaceful mutual regard and curiosity is something else. That's what I see happening far too consistently, and what has been much on my mind of late as I lead a group of layfolk wrestling with all of this stuff.

Another thing I was thinking about yesterday was this-- I don't want a God that I can understand. I want one that can understand ME. To do that S/he/it would have to be bigger than I, more patient, more tolerant, more loving than I.

A God I could understand would be small enough to sit on a shelf. A God that could understand me--well it would be big enough to encompass not only me but every other human bean in all our endless "me-me-me" variety over all time. I'd rather sit on His/her/its shelf!

"Big"? Well, we have a parallel for this in human relationships and dealings. Say I do a thing that hurts someone else. Instead of lashing out, say that person comes over and gives me the hand of friendship. This causes me to feel differently, and perhaps I confront a thing I need to change in myself, for love of that person. In human terms, we would say that the person who lashes out is a small person, and that it's "mighty big" of the one who chooses to be a friend even when entitled to feeling wronged.

The God I know says he's mighty big enough to be God over not only all humankind, and the creation we see His hand in, but all the other gods-- to be the higher power no matter how high we set the ceiling of our understanding. Now, that's gonna be just too damn big and powerful for any one of us to totally understand. How we gonna understand who She was in another time and culture other than our own present-time, for one thing?)

So I learn to live with Mystery-- and I reap the harvest of doing it. I get to plateaus of newer, higher understanding by being willing to allow the mystery NOT to make me afraid, but to enjoy Its operation.... each higher plateau of understanding makes a new place where I can look further up, and damn if I don't eventually get up there and see it for myself. Each view is different once reached, than it looked from below, and I look up, again....

So to me, any one thing I do not presently understand just makes a profitable topic for calm meditation.

I'm not in a hurry to nail it all down so I can understand it... I don't mind as much anymore if others around me don't understand what I say about it. I much prefer the quiet chat on a long drive or around a campfire, with folks also climbing up the mountains.

~Susan (still typo'ing without bifocals)

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 08:42 AM

but did they "buy" them, as per Scripture? Or were they gifts from their parents?


" the whole thing about prophets is no one in their time or place believes them!"

So, since no-one on Mudcat believes me when I say there are WMD in Iraq, I could be a prophet?

                               8-{E



"I just tell people this-- if your efforts to persuade have not borne good fruit, SOMEbody in the discussion isn't being what they say they mean to be, and usually it's TWO somebodies, not just one of them."


I am not sure that I understand this: Is it not possible for different people to have a different understanding of something, based on each person's own experiences and beliefs?

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 04:45 AM

At the naturist clubs that Essex Girl and I go to, all the men seem to be equipped with "weapons" - some larger than others. Most of the women seem to have suitable sheaths for said weapons.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Jun 04 - 10:45 PM

Couldn't God have 'inspired' someone to correct the worst mistakes by now?

That's why we have Bible and theology and other sortsa perfessers, so they can argue over who is correcting whom, but see it would not matter if any of them were actually right, i terms of ending controversies-- the whole thing about prophets is no one in their time or place believes them!

I just tell people this-- if your efforts to persuade have not borne good fruit, SOMEbody in the discussion isn't being what they say they mean to be, and usually it's TWO somebodies, not just one of them.

~Susan

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 May 04 - 11:10 PM

Right again, Pogo.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 May 04 - 11:07 PM

Not so. He simply cast a whole bunch of demons out of a guy, the demons went into the swine, and the swine panicked and ran into the water and drowned themselves. That's not deliberate violence, it's an unexpected side effect, that's all. The swine might just have well run away from the water, after all.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Pogo
Date: 31 May 04 - 11:05 PM

hmmm...but technically you also could say that the demons he cast out destroyed the pigs...they just asked Jesus if they could go into the pigs since I guess they were desperate for any kind of body they could get their mitts on.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 31 May 04 - 10:42 PM

Strick claimed as follows:

The only violent act in any of his bios was overturning the tables of the money changers at the Temple (though you could call withering the fig tree "violence").

Then we have the incident of the Gadarene swine. In order to carry out some mental therapy he destroyed some farmer's entire herd of pigs. I tend to see that as an act of violence.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 May 04 - 10:08 PM

That's an excellent point, Pogo, and I agree with it wholeheartedly. You get what you look for when you read a sacred text. "Seek and ye shall find." (exactly what you are seeking)

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Pogo
Date: 31 May 04 - 10:07 PM

LH indeed :)

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Pogo
Date: 31 May 04 - 10:05 PM

True on both posts Amos and BillD...and from the different varieties of the Bible that seem to be coming out nowadays Bill...

...well...who knows? :)

They've started piecing together the fragments of the Dead Sea Scrolls from what I've heard...there'll be another Bible.

As with any writing that deals with sacred matters I guess it depends the attitude you have while you read it. If you read it with the sincere purpose of bringing yourself closer to an understanding of higher matters, then well that's what you get out of it. If you read it solely for the purpose of historical interest then you will hopefully recieve an better understanding of history. If you read it to find out every single thing that is wrong with it or doesn't make sense then well you will find what you seek I guess.   

I consider the scriptures sacred and worthy of deep respect but because I know they speak of God. Just my view on things :)

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 May 04 - 10:00 PM

Put it this way, Bill...you build a sacred shrine or a healing center and how many people will come? A few.

You build a casino and how many people will come? A few million.

That tells you what is going on in this World in a nutshell. Don't be surprised that the errors have not been corrected. Whether they get corrected or not depends on people's use of their own free will, and most of them would rather use it for something like gambling or watching football games.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 May 04 - 09:55 PM

That has probably happened, Bill. There are alternative versions of the story, such as the book I mentioned before, "The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ". It's very much worth reading, I can assure you, and it presents what is to me a much more believable and complete account of Jesus' life. It was written in the 1800's. It will, however, be dismissed out of hand by most Bible readers, because it isn't the version they are familiar with, and it wasn't written 2000 years ago.

You see, God can inspire whatever he wants...but does that mean most people will ever read it? Or believe it? Ha!

The whole story of creation is written in Nature. Still, how many people see it or recognize it?

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Bill D
Date: 31 May 04 - 09:47 PM

Couldn't God have 'inspired' someone to correct the worst mistakes by now? Sure has been a lot of blood shed over varied interpretations.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Amos
Date: 31 May 04 - 09:45 PM

Admiring a gem is a fine and upright thing to do and it compliments both the admirer and the jeweler.

Worshiping a gem is asinine.

A

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Pogo
Date: 31 May 04 - 09:35 PM

SO BB what are you an ordained minister of?

As for Paul, LH yeah I'd agree he was pretty old fashioned in his views but then he was a man of his times and we can't really make a completely fair judgement of the fellow by 21st century standards. He still remains one of me favorites. He did have such a lovely way with words in other respects :)

2 Corinthians 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

Really so far as the Bible goes yes it does have many mistakes and contradictions. I still believe it to be written under the divine inspiration of God...but I take into consideration that those who wrote it were still only human and it has gone through a lot of revisions and such over the years.

If you focus solely on the flaws you overlook the beauty of the gem.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 May 04 - 06:29 PM

Having been adversely affected (NOT effected) by "authoritarian dictatorial Grundyism" when I was young and sensitive, Amos, I know exactly what you mean.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Amos
Date: 31 May 04 - 06:22 PM

LH:

See?? My remarks are only minutes old and you're leaning over backwards parsing complex justifications out of thin air. Get back, man -- it's a trap.

A

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 May 04 - 05:46 PM

Such as...?

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Bill D
Date: 31 May 04 - 05:41 PM

that's not God...It's some other Supreme Being using his name!
   Hmmmff! You think we smart Mudcatters can't see through cheap tricks like that?

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 May 04 - 05:21 PM

Nice to see you back, God.

Subject: RE: God wants armed nudests
From: GUEST,God
Date: 31 May 04 - 05:10 PM

This is God. None of you speaks for me.