BS: Some for the USA to be proud of

Subject: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: sledge
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 09:56 AM

As I sit here watching the news we are getting some good film of the first private space shot, as Spaceship one lifts off for an attempt at the 10 million dollar x-prize.

I get a buzz from this sort of thing and enjoy aviation and space related stuff, and the fact that this is a private venture rather than a military of Government flight makes it so much more enjoyable, for me it harks back to the 50's and 60's when many different shapes took the air to see what could be done, a period when the UK still tried to see what was possible.

I wish them every success.

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: Amos
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 10:08 AM

Seconded loud and clear!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: Tracey Dragonsfriend
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 10:40 AM

Wonderful! Wish I was home to see it.Something worthwhile to aim for...

Cheers
Tracey Dragonsfriend
Scorch's Pyrography

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 10:48 AM

Those of us in the commercial space industry are eagerly awaiting this flight, and the others presently being worked on.

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 11:05 AM

Go for it, kids. I, for one, will be watching. I do wish that Jonathan Eberhart was still with us to be some part of it.

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: sledge
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 11:19 AM

Just saw it landing back at base after a successful flight, now they need to take a crew of three up and back in the space of two weeks to get the prize.

Great stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 11:23 AM

oh, Jonathan would be in 7th heaven with Mars rovers and space shots and Hubble telescopes!!.....Yep...I do hope this hearalds a new, easier way to achieve things in orbit...a LOT is riding on making it work.

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 02:50 PM

Well . . . not to be some kind of sorehead, but I'm not sure that the USA necessarily has a reason to be proud of this. After all, who exactly is the USA? Those involved certainly have a reason to be proud, but why should my dentist or my wife's cousin or GWB have any reason to be proud? Did they contribute? Did they actually participate? Not that I know of. But—that's a bit of a nit-pick. Am I happy to see this achievement? Am I proud of the folks who actually did it? You bet!!

This is a bit closer to the concept of early space flight that I encountered in some of the pulp magazines my uncle (much to my mother's disgust and irritation) gave me when I was about ten or eleven. You know the ones:   printed on really cheap pulp paper (hence "pulp fiction") with lurid covers printed in four color process often depicting a scantily clad maiden being carried off by a bug-eyed-monster with lots of tentacles and dripping slime from a huge snaggle-toothed mouth, as our steely-eyed, firm jawed hero gives chase, unable to blast the alien monster with his atomic disintegrator pistol for fear of vaporizing yon fair maiden as well (inside illustrations equally lurid but in black and white).

Typical first space flight in many of these stories:   the cast of characters consists of an old scientist whose colleagues think is a bit eccentric if not outright mad; his lovely, spunky daughter; and a (once again) steely-eyed, firm jawed young man, generally a former fighter pilot or barnstorming pilot. The old scientist, with the assistance of his daughter and the young man, builds a space ship in his back yard by welding old beer cans together and then fuels it with gasoline bought at the local Texaco. One dark night they board the space ship and blast off for the Moon, Mars, or Mongo where they meet all kinds of strange aliens, both friendly and hostile, and have all kinds of hair-raising adventures. The kind of stuff one reads late at night under the blankets with a flashlight.

If all that's needed is a collection of beer cans and a supply of gasoline, why didn't anyone do it before? Because everyone but our stalwart trio lacked "The Vision."

This "Space Ship One" endeavor is a bit closer to the space flights of my youth than the massive NASA operations, and I applaud it mightily. It tickles me pink to see this sort of thing going on. It takes it out of the hands of the Powers That Be. But it does, at least until we collect enough beer cans, put it in the hands of another kind of Powers That Be:   those who have enough money to do it. This may have its own little built-in glitches and oddities. I would like to see something done with it beyond just taking people up for sight-seeing flights, and building orbiting hotels and sports arenas like they keep talking about. But what the hey!?? Aviation as a popular mode of travel pretty much got started that way; barnstorming pilots at county fairs charging people $10.00 a crack (a lot of money back then) to take them up for a scenic flight.

Like the cat who ate the cheese and sat there breathing into the mouse hole, I'll be waiting with baited breath.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 03:13 PM

I find it interesting that according to several news articles I've read the test pilot is 62

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: greg stephens
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 03:22 PM

Great stuff indeed. And it looks like a proper Invention. Totally brilliant.

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 03:34 PM

I saw an article in the Washington Post aboput this last week and, well, it piqued my curiousity big time. Tho the plane certainly didn't look up to the task of being launched some 60 miles and finding its way down other than in a ball of flames... But, what the heck. Maybe it's a lot tougher than it looks...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: jimmyt
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 04:05 PM

I see no problem with being proud of this accomplishment as an American. Mr Rutan was certainly a born and reared American with his education coming from American schools. It does seem to be quite an accomplishment. If we can't be proud of this, can we be proud if an AMerican wins a Nobel Prize? an Olympic medal? I sort of see your point, Don, but what is wrong with being proud of an American accomplishment? I know I sometimes hang my head in shame at some of the non-accomplishmants of Americans.

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 05:43 PM

Well, jimmyt, maybe this is an odd little quirk of my own, but I've always thought that pride is pretty much an individual thing. I can be proud of myself for undertaking a task and exceeding my own expectations, or I can be proud of a friend for doing the same thing, or (going a bit beyond the simply personal) I can be proud of a group of individual people who accomplish something with panache. But you will note that this is feeling proud of those who actually participated in the accomplishment.

I take a really jaundiced view of those who claim pride for themselves or their particular group, nationality, or race because of the accomplishments of an individual or team of people who just happens to belong to that group, nationality, or race. It's like claiming credit for something that one has not personally earned. And when taken to extremes, it leads to such things as nationalism, racism, chauvinism, jingoism, and the kind of things that, in turn, can lead to. When someone announces that he or she feels pride because of the accomplishments of a member of a group they happen to belong to, my inclination is to ask, "Okay, but what have you done lately?"

Likewise, if some member of a group, nation, or race that I belong to does something shameful, I do not feel personal shame, because in those same circumstances I would not have acted that way. I am ashamed of them and what they have done and angry because of the disgrace they have brought onto the group to which I belong, but I don't feel personal shame. This impells me to try to do something to change the situation if I can. Further, if I were to commit a shameful act, there is no reason that any associate of mine should feel shame unless he or she supported and condoned my act.

I don't believe in collective pride or collective guilt. I have a right to claim the credit or bear the blame for what I do, but credit or blame for what others do is not mine to claim or bear.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 06:35 PM

I've always believed that we (all humanity) could do whatever we set our collective minds to do. These people -- and the Rutan crowd are not alone -- are trying.

"No more whining
No more crying
Only sin is lack of trying."

"If you don't play, you can't win."

"All you can do is fail. And die, maybe. What's the problem?"

"Sine virtus, sine laus."

Personally, I'd rather go drown while trying to swim to shore than give up and die. I'm proud of what they're trying to do -- as a human being.

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: jimmyt
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 06:38 PM

Well spoken, Don. I have to agree with you after considering what you said. I guess I was being sensitive to a sense of "Well, if it a negative action or deed or thought, let's be critical of America, but if it is something positive, let's not collectively be proud." Your words were well spoken and I stand corrected.

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: open mike
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 02:05 AM

links? does anyone have a web site that mentions this project?

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: open mike
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 02:12 AM

answered my own question:]
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/06/21/suborbital.test/index.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3713119.stm

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: kendall
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 07:38 AM

I see many bumper stickers that say "I'm proud to be American". I'd like to ask them why, but I know I'd either get a blank stare or a tirade, so I don't.
So, let's carry this a bit further; I'm thinking mostly of sports; such as the NY Yankees or the Red Sox, any team will do, why do people cheer when one team wins? Why are the others called "Losers"?? we are all Americans. Not all of the players are natives of NY or Boston, they come from all over.Why should I support the Red Sox just because they are closer than the Yankees? It's silly! I don't like either city.
If a person does some great thing, they get credit for being a great American. Why? What does that have to do with it? Carry it a bit further; he/she is also a New Yorker. Is that something to be proud of? Let's say he/she was born in the lower east side; is that something to be proud of? Maybe he/she simply had good parents who steered him/her in the right direction. Seems to me that's more to be proud of than being born in America.
We are all natives of planet earth, and no one is any better than anyone. Those imaginary lines on a map (borders) cause a lot of trouble.From the Pentagon to the gang leader in any city the attitude is the same, "Us against them" Bollox I say.

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: Wolfgang
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 07:52 AM

Have you never asked yourselves why these news come now, at this time? The people start asking questions about Bush's war against the terror and start to wake up. Staging a beheading of an American has for a short while prevented the falling of approval of Bush. But the second beheading hadn't the same impact upon the approval rates. People only shrugged the shoulders and commented along lines like "well, life is dangerous at those places.

Something new had to come bridging the time before the last showdown of another 9/11 securing the election victory for the Bush clique:

Something America can be proud of like the presumed moon landing. What fits better than an American hero and an American achievement? Have you been with him? Have you seen the 'event' with your own eyes and not in TV? The press seems to agree, but the truth will be found out, perhaps when it is too late. This news story fits all too well into the Bush campaign. Who profits from this story? Ask this question and then you'll know what to think about this item of news.

Wolfgang (:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: beardedbruce
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 07:55 AM

Wolfgang,

This is not a new story- the competition for the X prize has been news for the last several months.

I don't see that this is part of the VRWC.

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: sledge
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 08:11 AM

If wolfgang took the time to read my other posts on other threads he would see that I am as anti bush as many on this forum but I think this is stretching it way too far.

The X prize has been news on the aero-space scene for a long time and this is just the first to get close enough to it to be deemed likely to walk off with the money. Several attempts were expected to be made either this year or the next, as the first to get so far why should it not be news, big news, its the first step to a big change in the industry for quite some time. Were they to delay they may have lost out to another competitor.

I saw nothing to ally it to the Bush camp, so try giving them a break. What is the USA meant to do, put any worthwhile project on hold until it is impossible to tie it into this weeks conspiricy theory.

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: sledge
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 08:15 AM

And to please the nit-picking nay sayers, how about we change the name of this thread to something like, "Something for the small group of those directly involved to be proud of while in no way endorsing GWB or his administration".

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 09:11 AM

No, Wolfgang, I don't think so. Some of the places that the various teams come from are Canada, Romania, England, and Argentina. Moreover, the prize itself dates from 1996. Here's the link.

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 09:33 AM

Though I might be mistaken (a handsome admission, if I ever heard one!), Mr. Rutan (forget his first name) is the same one who was the designer/originator/producer/(whatever) of the solar-powered airplane that attempted (and succeeded in?) a flight around the world, all based on sun power, just a year or two ago. He's an amazing designer/etc.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: beardedbruce
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 09:37 AM

Well, he was designer and pilot for the round-the-world non-stop flight- but that was not solar powered. Voyager presently in the NASM in DC.- less the wingtips that were scraped off on takeoff!

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 09:43 AM

Okay, I was wrong. (ANOTHER handsome admission!)

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 10:20 AM

Good one, Wolfgang. ;-)

(If I were so talented I would say all kinds of witty, sarcastic, biting, hilarious things -- maybe in that cute yellow print.)

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: Wolfgang
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 12:02 PM

Thanks, Mary

I thought the (:-) behind my name was clear enough. I was wrong.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 12:34 PM

I'm sorry, Wolfgang. It was early for me and I missed it.

Subject: RE: BS: Some for the USA to be proud of
From: sledge
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 12:42 PM

Ditto