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Lyr Req: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune

DigiTrad:
JOE BOWERS
MASTER MCGRATH
SWEET BETSY FROM PIKE
THE POKEGAMA BEAR
VILLIKINS AND HIS DINAH


Related threads:
(origins) Origins: Sweet Betsy from Pike (25)
Help: Origin of Villikins&Dinah tune (16)
(origins) Origins: Master McGrath (60)
(origins) Origins: They Died as they Lived (1)
Lyr Add: Little Dame Crump (2)
Where is Pike (as in 'Sweet Betsy from.. (22)
Lyr Req: Dinah and Villikens (23)
Sweet Betsy From Pike - refrain??? (50)
Info on: Master McGrath (14)
This remind you of Villikins & Dinah? (13)
SFTD-Pokegama Bear-11/17 (16)


Joe Richman 29 Jun 04 - 12:04 AM
Joe Richman 29 Jun 04 - 12:32 AM
pavane 29 Jun 04 - 01:47 AM
masato sakurai 29 Jun 04 - 02:07 AM
The Shambles 29 Jun 04 - 02:08 AM
John MacKenzie 29 Jun 04 - 03:45 AM
pavane 29 Jun 04 - 03:51 AM
greg stephens 29 Jun 04 - 04:00 AM
pavane 29 Jun 04 - 04:30 AM
GUEST,weerover 29 Jun 04 - 04:39 AM
Billy the Bus 29 Jun 04 - 06:06 AM
Snuffy 29 Jun 04 - 08:32 AM
Joe Richman 29 Jun 04 - 09:36 AM
Joybell 29 Jun 04 - 09:41 AM
Uncle_DaveO 29 Jun 04 - 11:36 AM
Herga Kitty 29 Jun 04 - 01:18 PM
Susan of DT 29 Jun 04 - 06:08 PM
Joe_F 29 Jun 04 - 07:29 PM
Joe Richman 29 Jun 04 - 09:33 PM
Joybell 29 Jun 04 - 09:47 PM
Bob Bolton 29 Jun 04 - 09:54 PM
Joybell 29 Jun 04 - 10:29 PM
GUEST,Art Thieme 30 Jun 04 - 12:27 AM
GUEST,weerover 30 Jun 04 - 01:14 AM
Billy the Bus 30 Jun 04 - 02:51 AM
Bob Bolton 30 Jun 04 - 09:18 AM
Snuffy 30 Jun 04 - 09:19 AM
Jim McLean 30 Jun 04 - 12:22 PM
GUEST,Barrie Roberts 30 Jun 04 - 03:12 PM
Joe Richman 30 Jun 04 - 10:58 PM
Bob Bolton 30 Jun 04 - 11:22 PM
cobber 01 Jul 04 - 03:28 AM
Billy the Bus 01 Jul 04 - 04:51 AM
Hrothgar 01 Jul 04 - 06:53 AM
Joe_F 01 Jul 04 - 07:05 PM
Joe_F 01 Jul 04 - 09:51 PM
Bob Bolton 01 Jul 04 - 10:58 PM
Billy the Bus 01 Jul 04 - 11:48 PM
Uke 03 Jul 04 - 04:17 PM
Nigel Parsons 03 Jul 04 - 05:51 PM
Nigel Parsons 03 Jul 04 - 06:00 PM
Billy the Bus 04 Jul 04 - 12:22 AM
Uke 04 Jul 04 - 04:15 AM
Billy the Bus 04 Jul 04 - 06:31 AM
Uke 04 Jul 04 - 06:17 PM
Joybell 05 Jul 04 - 07:50 PM
Bob Bolton 05 Jul 04 - 11:53 PM
Bob Bolton 06 Jul 04 - 08:24 AM
Joe Richman 07 Jul 04 - 10:31 PM
Herga Kitty 08 Jul 04 - 04:28 PM
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Subject: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Joe Richman
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 12:04 AM

In another thread, Billy the Bus aka Sam- Stewart Island NZ requested that I start a thread regarding the use of the tune Villikins & his Dinah for topical songs. The origin of this was my goal to do one different song using this tune at the monthly meeting of a folk circle I attend. So far I've done 4 different songs, and have one on tap for July. I have a couple of other possibilities for the rest of the year, and I plan on using V and his D in December. The months of April and may were skipped due to Easter and Mother's Day conflics so what I've done to date is the following:

Jan.:    Old Orange Flute
Feb.:


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Joe Richman
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 12:32 AM

OOps.. got cut off

Jan: Old Orange Flute ( N. Ireland)
Feb: A25 song (British navy WWII)
Mar: Dinkie Die ( British Army WWII version)
April: Off for Easter
May : Off for Mother's Day
June: Sweet Betsy from Pike ( US West 19th Cent.)

and in July probably

July: Moses Ritooralalooralalay ( Irish 1907 version not modern DT version, see recent thread)

I plan on using V & his D in December. (we're off again in Oct. for a fiddler's convention)

I have some others, but welcome new suggestions, particularly ones that aren't in DT and aren't scatological.

Joe


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: pavane
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 01:47 AM

A search of the Bodleian Ballad library turns up a lot of songs from as early as 1855 which were already using the tune.

Examples

Nicholas and his rhino ("'Tis of a rich tyrant who in Russia did dwell ...")

The great prize fight between Morrissey and Heenan, the Benicia boy, at Long Point, Canada, Oct. 20, 1858 ("Ye merry gay sportsmen, wherever you be ...")

The back-door commission; or, The fiat against publicans and publichouses ("Shut the back-doors, lads, but first let us in ...")

Nedward and his Fanny ("It's of a young clothier I'm going for to tell ...")

Albert, Victoria, and Napier ("As Victoria and Albert together did stray ...")

John Dean and his own Mary Ann. Or, the gallant young coachman and the cruel father ("Oh listen to me while a story I tell ...")

Teetotal Sam ("Two jolly old fellows, some four months ago ...")

The Sunday trading riot ("Oh, my friends have you heard of this terrible job ...")

Susy and Pat Murphy ("Och, it's of a rich farmer in Limerick did dwell ...")


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: masato sakurai
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 02:07 AM

Link to Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads:

      villikins and his dinah [tune]


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: The Shambles
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 02:08 AM

Sing It Elswhere


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 03:45 AM

The Thrashing Machine is another.
Giok


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: pavane
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 03:51 AM

The original song sems to have been
William and diana

Printed somewhere between 1789 and 1820


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: greg stephens
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 04:00 AM

I can strongly recommend "The Wee Magic Stane", an account of the stealing of the Stone of Scone(the Scottish coronation stone) from Westminster Abbey, by some scottish students in the 5o's. Insteaad of stealing, perhaps I should say reposession.
    I also particularly like the "Thrashing Machine" recommended earlier by Glok, but I fear that may come into your category of scatological. (Though that word appears to mean "obsessed with excrement" originally, and there is definitely no excrement in the Thrashing Machine. But alas, quite a bit of shagging).
    I am not sure if anyone anyone has suggested "Follow the Plough" yet. That is grand old agricultural song, used to popular among all the old boys in country pubs. I think you could be singing the rest of life at this project, Joe. At one a month, it's going to take a few years to get through the list!


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: pavane
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 04:30 AM

Of course, The Thrashing Machine (bawdy) also goes back at least as far as the 1850's. There are several copies in the Bodleian library, for example:

The thrashing machine


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: GUEST,weerover
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 04:39 AM

In my list of Irish songs I have the following listed to this tune:
Old Orange Flute
I Don't Mind If I Do
In the County Roscommon
Pat and the Priest
Old Ballymoe
Tourelay
The House Down in Carne
The Shilling a Night
The Birth of Saint Patrick
The Widow of Donaghadee
Ballad of the 13th Lock
Quare Times
The Mullingar Heifer
The Blind Beggar's Daughter
The Battle-away Breed

wr.


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Billy the Bus
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 06:06 AM

G'day Joe,

Ta muchly for this thread. Somewhere in my brain cell there's another song wot I can't recall at the moment..... I have senior lapses...

PS - could you give me a wake-up call? I must get to the Post Office (if we still had one) to "Register my A25"

Cheers - Sam


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Snuffy
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 08:32 AM

Listed in the links at the top of the page is MASTER MCGRATH


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Joe Richman
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 09:36 AM

I like the Magic Stane, Greg, but my Scots dialect pronunciation is terrible. If someone could render it in phonetic spelling for me that would help.

Joe


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Joybell
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 09:41 AM

"The Nautical Yarn" and "Bluey Brink" from Australia. Joy


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 11:36 AM

I will recommend Do Virgins Taste Better , but I have to admit that it was not originally set to V&HisD. I find that it fits V&HisD better than the Irish Washerwoman, and I sing it this way all the time.

Lest you form a wrong opinion based on the title, it (at least explicitly) mean what you just might think. I will say that it is just slightly bawdy. It's about the legendary practice of bribing a dragon to leave a village alone by annually providing a virgin for the dragon to eat.

Read it, at least! It's great good fun.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 01:18 PM

I think there's a Musical Hall song about a muckspreader? Chorus starts, "Fling it here, fling it there....."

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Susan of DT
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 06:08 PM

When you want to find other songs to the same tune in the DT, search for the tunefile name, in this case VILDINAH. It won't get every one of them, since some will have had the tune entered specifically for that song, but many will use the same tunefile. There are 26 that come up on the version of the DT on this website.


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Joe_F
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 07:29 PM

"I Like a Moose" (male & female versions in the DigiTrad).


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Joe Richman
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 09:33 PM

I saw all of the DT V & his D links already, and several of them are way too bawdy for my taste or the tastes of the group I'm performing in front of. What I'm looking for, as I stated are songs off the DT. "The Wee Magic Stane" is in the DT, and would be a fine choice, but is in Scots dialect, and way beyond my ability without help in that department. The Bodleian library looks to be a good source, but I'm also interested in 20th (and even maybe 21st) century lyrics. Weerover's list of Irish songs might help me as well, and I also appreciate the suggestions from Australia. If I forgot anyone, consider yourself thanked. Right now, I'm at 2 Irish, 3 English and 1 American, with 3 slots to be filled before the end of the year. I'm not sure I want to keep this up into 2005.

Thanks to all,

Joe


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Joybell
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 09:47 PM

Good luck Joe, I'll add that "The Nautical Yarn" is a good family-type song. It's in the DT. You can sing it with funny vioces for the dialogue bits and it lends itself to melodramatic treatment. Joy


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 09:54 PM

G'day Joe,

I see that Joybell has opted in two Australian songs; The Nautical Yarn (a humorous - mock-tragic- tale of an Australian paddlesteamer on the Murray River) and Bluey Brink (an equally mock-tragic tale of an Australian shearer and some dangerous drinks).

I might also challenge your description of Dinkie-di as "British Army WWII" ... although I guess some Pommies may have picked up the Australian song - despite Aussies singing it as direct insult to snooty Pommy officers/non-coms!

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Joybell
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 10:29 PM

Hello Bob, Yes "The Nautical Yarn" is mock-tragic and I've always sung it as such, but I once was camping beside the Murray River in the Barmah State Forest during a thunder-storm. Was that a scary experience! "The winds they did rage and the waves they did roar!" I can tell you. Only time in my life I've seen ball-lighning! It ran along a wire fence straight at our tent! Gave me new respect for the old Fresh-water Shellbacks like Bill Jinks. Joy


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 12:27 AM

There is a song I learned from the Minnesota folklorist, John Berquist, that I put on my last CD. It tells the story of the problems that can arise in the north woods of the USA when a lumbering crew encounters a bear. This song, The Pokegama Bear, is sung to this tune but with some nice minor chords tossed in by me to make it a bit prettier.

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: GUEST,weerover
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 01:14 AM

Joe,

If there are any of the songs i listed for which you don't have access to the the lyrics, I will be happy to post here.

wr.


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Billy the Bus
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 02:51 AM

G'day Bob,

Yup, Dinky Die was WWI and ANZAC origin (probably from the island to the west of NZ).

As to Bluey Brink - I've just coughed, and now have flaming whiskers! That song is not 'mock', but truly tragic

Cheers - Sam


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 09:18 AM

G'day Sam,

Yeah ... I reckon digger is more Australian ... but it's pretty well shared with you Kiwis - much the same lot grubbed for gold in both nation's rushes and went on to mine for more mundane metals. The Queenstown on Tasmania's west coast (lots of copper mining in its day) was named after New Zealand's Queenstown by miners coming back west

Anyway, just avoid those jars of sulphuric acid ... especially the ones the barman uses to clean the bar - you nevr know what they might have soaked up off the bar surface!

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Snuffy
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 09:19 AM

The Molecatcher of Gloucester


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Jim McLean
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 12:22 PM

The Wee Magic Stane


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: GUEST,Barrie Roberts
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 03:12 PM

Didn't Pete Seeger devote a complete Folkways LP to versions of V & D about 30 years ago?


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Joe Richman
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:58 PM

Sorry about that Australia...Well the version I did (in the DT)was definitely from WWII since it mentioned Lord Gort, who was a British Commander in the evacuation of Dunkirk and on Gibraltar and Malta. (Gort did serve in WWI, but wasn't head of the army until the 1930s). Probably not the original WWI Aussie version, which I don't have. Do You? If so please post it.

Joe


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 11:22 PM

G'day Joe,

I'll check through the various books that have versions. The "Lord Gort" version is probably the most remembered in Australia ... nowadays ... since there aren't too many WW I Diggers left!

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: cobber
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 03:28 AM

G'day Bob and all. I was going to suggest "Carolina the cowpuncher's whore" that Oscar Brand recorded, I think but it sounds like that wouldn't be suitable. There was another that springs to mind that I learned in school in England in the fifties. I can only remember the second verse which went
Oh Father, Oh Father the daughter she cried
Idon't feel inclined to be marry-i-ed
And all my large fortune, I'll gladly give o'er
If you let me live single a year or two more.
Anyone know what that was?


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Billy the Bus
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 04:51 AM

G'day Cobber,

That was Charlotte, the Harlot - the Cowpunchers Whore and all I can remember is the song title... It was as cleanly grubby, and with the same subtle double entendre as Eskimo Nell.

Aaaaarrrfffggghhh....

I still can't remember a single solitary word....

And as to Oswcar Brand? Are you Canadian? He was TOTALLY grubby, and a heap of fun (and history)...

Mumble...

And. Bob - it was a tripartite transfusion of songs in the gold-mining days of the 1860s.... Ummm... even Californians were involved - Don't tell anyone else

Cheers - Sam


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Hrothgar
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 06:53 AM

There's the one that starts

"There was an old lady of Sauchiehall Street
Who, try as she would, was unable to shit"

I can remember most of it if anybody wants it.


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Joe_F
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 07:05 PM

The Soldier and the Sailor
Link


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Joe_F
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 09:51 PM

Here's another one:

The Ballad of Wadi Maktilla, British, W.W. II, about a frustrating attempt to do battle with some Italians in North Africa. To the tune in question is added the inspiring refrain

What the hell's all the fuss?
Oh, wouldn't you, wouldn't you like to be us?

This tune has gotten around.


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 10:58 PM

G'day to the Antipodean contingent:

cobber: I have the Oscar Brand version of Charlotte the Harlot on a tape made from one of his "stereo demonstration" LPs, which I heard about 1966. I'd have to go back and listen to be sure of the tune he used ...

Hrothgar: The same Oscar Brand LP (there were two - Bawdy Cowboy Songs and Bawdy Sea Songs) has something called (~) All About Turds - or A Song About Turds, which is another version of the one you mention.

Bily the Bus: Yes ... we do remember that a lot of Yanks were at the goldfields - but we haven't forgiven "The American Revolver Brigade" from withdrawing from the Eureka Stockade, which was the signal for the Redcoats to attack!

Anyway, the really big infusion of American songs to the Australian goldfields came from the touring American troupes such as Christy Minstrels and Black-face ("Nigger") Minstrel Shows that rushed out here to carry on their efficient, no-dig, gold extraction techniques.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Billy the Bus
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 11:48 PM

G'day all,

What a wealth of old memories you're bringing back. V&D certainly knocked about - in more ways than one. Thanks for reminding me of 'Soldier & Sailor' Joe_F - and your other links...

And, Bob, last night I was checking out the Christy and other B&W Minstrel shows - it was part of a search for the ultimate Yankee Gold Grabber who took all my pennies 55 years back. Did you have such a "Nigger"?

Must look for a M-C 'Toys' thread

Cheers - Sam


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Uke
Date: 03 Jul 04 - 04:17 PM

Another well-known antipodean (probably only well-known in New Zealand actually) contribution that has to be mentioned is "Fast Pair of Skis" by Harold Gretton:

I like to go tramping around Dawson Falls
The climate's superb and the scenery enthralls
There's pungas and fushias and mamaku trees
It's a swell place to go with a fast pair of skis.

When it's cold, and you freeze,
You can always keep warm with a fast pair of skis

King David lay dying and couldn't get warm
So they brought a fair virgin to take him by storm
Said David, To hell with prescriptions like these
Tell the eunuchs to bring me a fast pair of skis

etc. etc. (circa 1940s - I remember my parents still singing this in the 70s)


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Jul 04 - 05:51 PM

Billy the bus: It was definitely "Carolina, the cow punchers' whore"

Way down Alabama where the cow dung lies thick,
Where girls are so pretty that babies come quick.
There lives Carolina, the girl I adore.
Carolina, Carolina, the cow punchers' whore

She's randy, she's bandy, she shags in the street.
If ever you meet her, she's always 'on heat'
If you leave your flies open she's after your 'meat'
And the smell from her c*** knocks you right off your feet.


That's all that comes immediately to mind

Nigel


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Jul 04 - 06:00 PM

Or a song sung by Scouts in Warwickshire

The Warwickshire Song

A young earl of Warwick, one Atholl by name,
Did need him a sign for to bring him some fame,
His name meant a bear so a bear he did choose,
And that's how the bear first came into the news.

Rye toodle rye toodle rye toodle rye aye
We'll show you our badge if you come down our way
It's only a bear standing up by a tree,
But it's story was told in 900ad

Morvidus the earl who came after that chap,
Uprooted an oak and with lions did scrap,
He slew them and cut it to pieces of chaf,
And that's how the bear got his rugged old staff,

Chorus




The Bear & Rugged Staff (The Arms of Warwickshire) Also the name of numerous pubs in the UK


CHEERS

Nigel


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Billy the Bus
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 12:22 AM

G'day Nigel, maybe Carolina and Charlotte were twin sisters.

G'day Uke - there was a jooly good session of Tararua Tramping Club Golden Oldies singing the songs of my youth on the wireless today. Reminded me that some years back I posted a more extensive version of Fast Pair of Skis here on Mudcat - with a bit of an explaination as to nomenclature - great to see yuu were on the same wavelength.

Cheers - Sam


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Uke
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 04:15 AM

Hi Sam, glad you heard the radio singsong, funnily enough I must confess... 'twas yours truly that put that baby together - with a fair bit of help from Jack Perkins of course. It was heaps of fun to do actually.

So yeah, those great songs have been on my mind lately... good to see 'Skis' already posted.

By the way, did you ever know Tony Nolan? I met him a coupla times when I was a lad and was planning to interview him for the radio, but he passed away last year before I got started.

Regards

Mike


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Billy the Bus
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 06:31 AM

G'day Mike,

Congratulations on a great programmme Mike. I'll keep my aerial up for a Spectrum re-run, so I can record it. I can't find Tony's record at the moment. Sad to hear he's left us. I can't say I really knew him, but joined in a number of sing-alongs, and had a few yarns with him back in the 60s, when I was running Rotoiti Lopdge in NLNP.

I've just finished listening to Jim Sullivan. He played 'Gutboard Blues" as atribute to Dave Jordan - a bonus as he gave me 'Sate House' last week. The number of us left from those days is getting pretty skinny on the ground - guess we aren't getting any younger.

Cheers - Sam


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Uke
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 06:17 PM

Thanks Sam - Give us a yell if want a tape copy of any of Tony's records.

Yeah, pity about Dave Jordan. I guess you know the immortal 'Down Trou' song (now that could be a good one for Mudcat). Not wanting to be the bearer of bad news or anything, but I also heard that the Pog Band is breaking up...

To get back to this thread I've got a song about the Shiner round here to 'Villikins' I'll dig out and post.


Mike


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Joybell
Date: 05 Jul 04 - 07:50 PM

Bob that's unfair. The Americans slept in at Eureka. The attack was very early in the wee hours of the morning. Maybe they were all musicians. Can't imagine my American True-love getting up that early either. Joy


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 05 Jul 04 - 11:53 PM

G'day aagin,

Joybell: I understood that the American Ambassador had been prevailed upon, by the Colonial authorites, to warn the Americans off ... with the usual threats of authority. (Can't say too much about the effects of authority ... Peter Lalor did end up as Minister for Transport in the Victorian Government!)

Joe Richman: Sorry I have been otherwise engaged - I did look at various Australian versions of Dinky Di ... and it is interesting that the collected version - mostly written down post-WW II - come with the 'Lord Gort' verse ... whether they have the WW I references or the WW II ones! The Lord Gort verse must be WW II ... he was only a Lieut. Colonel in 1917 ... I think that verse - usually the final one of the song - is so good it sticks to all versions!

I'll get back from home, where I have scanned in Bill Scott's version from his Second Penguin Australian Songbook (1980?). He learned the song first hand in the 1940s, on active service ... but refers back to the version his Dad sang him, from WW I ... but retains the Lord Gort stanza. I'll also give you another version ... varying mostly in having a variable chorus, echoing the last line of each stanza.

I ran my usual Monday Night Music Workshop last night ... and remembered that John Poleson, who was in the band Selectors with me in the '70s ... and comes along to my Workshops ... was the source of a much less expurgated version, printed in Brad Tate's Australian Bawdy Songs, Ramskull Press (mid 1980s ... ?) - but that (perhaps fortunately) doesn't enter into this discussion since it goes to the tune Mountains of Mourne ( - and there is textual evidence that this was the earlier tune for Dinki Di).

I also noted a reference (Thérèse Radic, in her (~) Favourite Australian Songs - I'll dig out the full references when I get home) to another Australian song Euabalong Ball (or Wooeeo Ball, before A.L. Lloyd fiddled with it) going to " ... a variant of Villikins & His Dinah". However, after a lot of comparison of the two tunes, I'd have to say the resemblance is slight! I can give you ABC (plus the no longer Mudcat-supported MIDItxt) if you are interested ... or send of a simple MIDI - and/or a scan or a print-out from my music progran, if you want to give me an e-mail address by PM.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 08:24 AM

G'day Joe

This version is given by Bill Scott as his father's WW I song … but still ends with the clearly WW II "Lord Gort" stanza.

The Digger's Song

He came up to London and straightway he strode
To the Army Headquarters in Horseferry Road,
To see all the bludgers who dodge all the strafe
By getting soft jobs on the Headquarters Staff.
Chorus
Dinky-di, dinky-di,
I am an old Digger and can't tell a lie.


A lousy Lance-Corporal said, 'Pardon me, please.
There's blood on your tunic, there's mud on your sleeve.
You look so disgraceful that people will laugh!'
Said the lousy Lance-Corporal on the Headquarters Staff.
Chorus

The Digger then shot him a murderous glance,
He said, 'I'm just back from the shambles in France,
Where the whizz-bangs are flying and comforts are few,
And brave men are dying for bastards like you.'
Chorus

'We're shelled on the left and we're shelled on the right,
We're bombed all the day and we're bombed all the night.
If something don't happen, and that pretty soon,
There'll be nobody left in the bloody Platoon!'
Chorus

The story was brought to the ears of Lord Gort
Who gave the whole matter a great deal of thought;
Then awarded that Digger a V. C. and two bars
For giving that Corporal a kick in the arse.
Chorus

Notes from The Second Penguin Australian Songbook, (compiled) Bill Scott, Penguin Books Australia, Ringwood, Victoria, 1980:

I first heard this song during the Second World War, sung with great feeling by a soldier of the Sixth Division, who sang it as above, except that instead of using the first and second lines of the second verse, he sang:

The Digger then shot him a murderous look,
He said, 'I'm just back from that place called Tobruk.'

Otherwise the words were the same. It was my father who gave me the original words, composed during the First World War. The tune is 'Villikens And His Dinah', a tune that has picked up words all around the world. The best known set of words in English is probably the American folksong, 'Sweet Betsy From Pike'.

- * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - *

Here's a second version, with a variant chorus:
Dinky Di

He came over to London and straight away strode,
To army headquarters in Horseferry Road,
To see all the bludgers who dodge all the strafe,
By getting soft jobs on the headquarters staff.
Dinky di, dinky di,
By getting soft jobs on the headquarters staff.


A lousy lance-corporal said, 'Pardon me, please,
You've mud on your tunic and blood on your sleeve,
You look so disgraceful the people will laugh,'
Said the lousy lance-corporal on the headquarters staff.
Dinky di, dinky di,
Said the lousy lance-corporal on the headquarters staff.


The digger then shot him a murderous glance;
He said: 'We're just back from the balls-up in France,
Where bullets are flying and comforts are few,
And brave men are dying for bastards like you;
Dinky di, dinky di,
And brave men are dying for bastards like you.'


'We're shelled on the left and we're shelled on the right,
We're bombed all the day and we're bombed all the night,
And if something don't happen, and that pretty soon,
There'll be nobody left in the bloody platoon;
Dinky di, dinky di,
There'll be nobody left in the bloody platoon.'


This story soon got to the ears of Lord Gort,
Who gave the whole matter a great deal of thought,
He awarded the digger a VC and two bars,
For giving that corporal a kick up the arse;
Dinky di, dinky di,
For giving that corporal a kick up the arse.


This one, differing mainly by the chorus repeating the last line of the verse, was published earlier, by John Lahey in his Great Australian Folk Songs, 1965, Hill of Content Publishing, Melbourne, Victoria. Unfortunately, Lahey gives no collection notes.

This is the exact version anthologised by Thérèse Radic, A Treasury of Favourite Australian Songs, Currey O'Neill Ross, South Yarra, Victoria, 1983 although she cites versions in several other books … "These are only a few of the verses. Most are hilarious but not possible to print, given the obscenity laws."

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Joe Richman
Date: 07 Jul 04 - 10:31 PM

Well, thanks to all the Mudcatters who contributed to this thread.
I think after all of this research, I'm going to stick with two songs I found in the DT for two of the three I need to complete my year of Villikins & his Dinah songs. They are:

Harbour Le Cou (Newfoundland)

Be Kind to Belfast (N. Ireland)

One question about this one: Does Lagan rhyme with Reagan? Let me know if you know!

The third is probably going to be Nigel's Warwickshire song. Short sweet and to the point. What everyone needs to know about Warwickshire ancient history and heraldry. It deserves to be added to the DT in my opinion.

Sorry about the Wee Magic Stane. Good song but tough to perform with a California Western American accent.

Thanks Australia for the Dinky Die updates. Maybe the original WWI ending has been lost forever due to the fine WWII ending which replaced it.


Joe


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Subject: RE: Villikins & his Dinah: songs using tune
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 04:28 PM

I work in an office in Horseferry Road - the regimental HQ mentioned in Dinky Di has been rebuilt a bit further north, towards Strutton Ground.

Kitty


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