BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 02:22 PM

I think that Pollard is being made a martyr and the term antisemite is being thrown around way too much. I think Rabbi-Sol should renounce what he said about "Sentenced as a Jew" and should in future should only make such accusations if he is prepared to back it up much better than he has in this case.

Pollard and his supporters seem to be playing chicken with the US athorities whereby they are trying to have their spies and free them to.

If Pollard is released, it should be on parole, the terms of the parople being that he should not be able to accept any reward of any kind from Israel, and that he and the Israeli government, both condemn his actions. He should not be allowed to migrate to Israel.

If Pollard, the government of Israel and the prominent Jewish groups do not back off then I am prepared to believe that Mr. Pollard has learned nothing from his incarceration, that potential spies have received no clear message of deterrance and that he should stay in prison until such time as he clearly renounces what he has done.

"Let him rot" was a euphamism, hopefully you now understand what I meant.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Alonzo M. Zilch (inactive)
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 02:28 PM

If Pollard, the government of Israel and the prominent Jewish groups do not back off then I am prepared to believe that Mr. Pollard has learned nothing from his incarceration, that potential spies have received no clear message of deterrance and that he should stay in prison until such time as he clearly renounces what he has done.

Just what "government of Israel and prominent Jewish groups" are you talking about? The lobbying on behalf of Pollard seems to be a largely grassroots effort in which those lobbying on his behalf are decrying the fact that prominent Jewish organizations and the Israeli government have not been involved in lobbying on behalf of Pollard.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 02:35 PM

Equality before the law? LOL Each case should be decided on its own merits, sentencing should be for deterence and rehabilitation. Pollard and would be Pollards are obviously neither rehabilitated nor deterred. That's the difference between a mercenary and an ideologue. The ideologue needs more punishment to be deterred, the ideologue may never be rehabilitated.

You people are defending Pollard as having done the right thing. No low level analyst is given the authority to interpret "memorandums of understanding" with foreign governments on their own. It is an act of betrayal for them to do so. It was an act of betrayal for Israel to accept. A true ally might have turned him in to the US authorities for even trying to betray his own country. Pollard has to accept the consequences of this betrayal, so does Israel, so do promenant Jewish groups.

Until then I say let him rot. (please note I am not advocating actual, physical rotting, It is an expression meaning let him continue his sentence.)

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 02:40 PM

Israel has granted him citizenship. Promanent is a relative term. In any case Israel should denouce what he has done and return the materials he stole. He should renounce what he has done and not be allowed to profit from his crime.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Alonzo M. Zilch (inactive)
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 02:40 PM

Again, you're harping on "prominet Jewish groups."

Which prominent Jewish groups are you talking about? Or is that some sort of code that you use?

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 02:47 PM

GUEST,Yes, I am a Cunning Ham, I am, I don't think you understand the principle of equality before the law. The law does not specify how long people should have to serve for the crime of espionage. If the US determined that an American who spies against the US on behalf of a "friend and ally" posess a greater security threat than someone who does it for an enemy nation, they would make their decisions about how to deal with such people on that basis.

And when people go around saying things like "Pollard was only spying on a 'friend and ally', they give the appearance of suggesting that it's not as bad to spy on the US on behalf of a country that is a 'friend and ally', as it is to spy on behalf of an enemy. I can see how the intelligence community could see this as constituting an increased security threat.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Alonzo M. Zilch (inactive)
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 02:49 PM

Based on your last posting that crossed with mine, I will assume that "prominent Jewish groups" is some sort of code that you use.

"Prominent" is not a "relative term." My dictionary offers two meanings:

1) Projecting outward or upward from a line or surface; protuberant.

2) Widely known; eminent.

In the context that you use the word, it is, obviously, # 2.

Let me rephrase the question to you in words that may be more understandable: What WIDELY KNOWN or EMINENT Jewish groups are you talking about?

If you're talking about a grassroots effort by Pollard's family, friends and supporters, that does not meet anyone's standard of widely known, eminent, or prominent.

In other words, you are using thinly veiled code to advance your agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 02:52 PM

Just what "government of Israel and prominent Jewish groups" are you talking about?

Do a Google search on "Jonathan Pollard" and you can see for yourself. The people in question include Benjamin Netanyahu.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 02:55 PM

BTW, I don't think those of you who are trying to set traps for JtS to stumble into are helping Pollard's cause any, either. Why not just let it drop and try to help Pollard by supporting the people who are tyrying to secure his release quietly behind the scenes?

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 03:01 PM

forget it zilch. you can't argue with an anti-semitic hate monger like jack.

i have learned something in this thread. i always thought that carolc was the really nasty one in that pair. she comes off as relatively reasonable and balanced in comparison to her vicious hate-mongering husband.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 03:02 PM

"Let him rot" was a euphamism (Jack the Sailor)

euphemism: the substitution of an agreeable or inoffensive expression for for one that may offend (Websters)

I'm curious, Jack, what would you have said if you had not used this unoffensive expression?

Jack, you make assumptions about me that are totally wrong. I make a lot of errors and I like to laugh about myself. I do not scan what I read for laughs I sometimes stumble upon it (even when rereading what I have written).

And I thought it was completely clear that I had laughed about the first quote. If you cannot laugh about yourself when you see the two sentences in juxtaposition, I'm sorry for you.

With the second quote from you I was completely serious. I do not consider it laughing matter if one country is singled out for different treatment by a word like 'especially'. You just could have explained it instead of firing off insults.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 03:04 PM

oh, and carol, you should know that what goes on at the mudcat forum will never have any effect on any decisions that are made in the pollard case or in anything at all pertaining to the conflict between israel and the palestinian terrorists.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 03:06 PM

forget it wolfgang. you can't reason with an anti-semitic hate monger like jack the sailor.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 03:38 PM

Sorry not euphamism,
how about "expression".

I've explained "especially" more than enough times for you to get my intended meaning. The level of betrayal is higher. The potential for abuse greater. If you disagree with my opinion then we'll just have to disagree.

Yes I do see some humour in the juxtaposition of the two sentences. But I don't in the context of the whole thread and in the context of a couple of other threads where the same few people have been liberal with their insults and short on reason. Here again, I fear we are destined to disagree. That's why I accused you of scanning.

I suggest that the next time you "stumble" upon such "humour" you try to consider the context before you share it. If you don't see any justification for calling someone a jerk when he tried to question my marriage,when he deliberately and pointedly tried to distract us with a huge cut and paste which added nothing new, then again, we will just have to disagree.

Wolfgang, honestly, I thought better of you.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 04:38 PM

Wolgang:   Your post re: Jack The Sailor and the juxtapositioning of his comments were right on----I was thinking the same thing. When you have no response refer to name calling---not even a clever insult. Clever insults and witty ripostes are always appreciated.

So, I suppose, as the old joke goes after much haranguing about something the recipient of the harangue (me) says to the haranguer (Jack/sailor) ---does that mean you won't be coming over to help me anymore?

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 05:23 PM

Carol, I regards to the Jewish Press, as the editor said, It could have been written in an opinion column and they do have many of those columns. Another publication where I get much of my information from is "The Jewish Voice And Opinion" which is published in Englewood, N.J. (Bill H's back yard). I may have seen it there. The Editor is Susan L. Rosenbluth and she can be e-mailed at
susan@jewishvoiceandopinion The same question to her as you posed to The Jewish Press may yield a different result. It's worth a try.
SOL ZELLER

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 05:32 PM

Jack, In your post, you stated that a true friend and ally of the USA would have turned Pollard over to the authorites immediately. Well, that is exactly what Israel did. If you read Bill H's post that was culled from Pollard's website, you will see that when Pollard sought refuge in the Israeli Embassy, he was turned away, right in to the waiting arms of the FBI who were outside to take him into custody. SOL ZELLER

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 05:38 PM

Bill H,

If you do ever say anthing witty please be sure to point it out. I'll leave it to anyone reading this thread to decide who has been the "haranguer" (sic) and who has reacted.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 05:45 PM

Wit is in the eye (ear) of the beholder---it may well be that you have not found the humor in some of my comments about yourself and the charming ( Iam sure) spouse. Now the word "jerk"---do enlighten me as to what is witty about that---perhaps you used it as in the term "I am jerking your chain"---looks like I succeeded.

Witty enough for you?

Bill H

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 05:47 PM

On the subject of intermarriage, yes, the liberal branches of Judaism such as Reconstructionist, Reform & Conservative have a more liberal attitude and policy towards it. However, I am a strictly Orthodox Jew (complete with long beard and yarmulke), and am bound by strict Torah law. That means Excommunication and sitting shiva for the offending family member. As far as Bob Dylan goes, he was born a Jew and in the eyes of Torah law will always remain one, no matter how many gallons of holy water he has been baptised with. For the record, he did go to Lubavitch for a while to return to his roots. He then attended a Yeshiva in Far Rockaway, Queens, N.Y. under the leadership of Rabbi Freifeld, with the intention of becoming Orthodox.
However that proved to be short lived, as he has now once again become a "born again" Christian. But in the eyes of Torah law, he remains and will always be a Jew. The same holds true for Cardinal Lustiger of France SOL ZELLER

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 05:47 PM

Rabbi-Sol,

Perhaps they should have turned him instead of gratefully accepting the fruits of his crime? Before he was caught redhanded? As it was they turned him in when he was no longer usefull. That's little more than a gesture.

Rabbi-Sol

Are seriously asking Carol to do your research for you a second time? I am happy to stipulate that you are sincere. If choose to supply more sources to back your assertions, we'll ba happy to read what you post. If not, lets just leave things as they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Alonzo M. Zilch (inactive)
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 05:55 PM

And we're still waiting, Jack the Sailor, for you to tell us who are those "prominent Jewish groups" that you repeatedly mentioned.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Alonzo M. Zilch (inactive)
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 05:59 PM

Rabbi-Sol,

You say that Dylan has returned to Christianity. My information is that you are incorrect about that. He has become very private about his practices, but I do know that he attended High Holiday services in recent years.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 06:05 PM

Bill H.

Please try to understand this for your own good and self-awareness. I was not trying to be witty, I was dismissing your rantings as the words of a "jerk". Now that I have cleared up this unfortunate misunderstanding, I shall return to ignoring you, unless someone I respect, like Wolfgang, speaks up again.

Rabbi-Sol

I'm a little confused. If Dylan converts to Christianity he is still a Jew but if a Jew marries a Christian and does not convert then he is no longer a Jew and is excommunicated and mourned as dead?

So do I have this right?
If Dylan were to marry, say Anne Coulter, then he would be excommunicated and treated as dead? But if he subsequently divorced her then he would be able to then attend a Yeshiva and metaphorically be brought back to life?

I'm not trying to be disrespectfull of your beliefs. I used Anne Coulter as an example because to add some levity, but not to ridicule you or your beliefs,

The serious questions are how is coversion differenet from intermarriage? and what happens in the case of divorce?

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 06:07 PM

How recently ? SOL ZELLER

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 06:26 PM

The excommunicated person is shunned by the greater community, but still remains Jewish. If they were to divorce the person of the other faith, they would be restored to the full privileges that they enjoyed prior to the marriage. Any children resulting from that union would be considered whatever the faith of the mother was. We Jews do not actively seek converts to our religion. In fact, we are told to discourage potential converts 3 times. If they still persist in wanting to become Jewish we can then accept them. However, that conversion must be done by a properly recognized Rabbinical tribunal & can not be done for an alterior motive, such as wanting to marry a Jewish spouse. The conversion must be strictly for the sake of the religion. Men must undergo circumcision and women must undergo immersion in a Mikvah (ritual bath). Once the person is properly converted, there is no problem with intermarriage. SOL ZELLER

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 06:34 PM

Jack/Sailor---I know you were not trying to be witty. Probably something you are incapable of give your attempt at humor in the Coulter post.

            It was I who, sadly, tried to do something witty by using your word "jerk" in a better context than you managed. Yours was that of one who could not find a better riposte.

            Please do continue to ignore me since it seems that since I landed on this alien planet you are one of the few people that have not been able to comprehend my alien postings. I must, truly, learn the local language rather than speaking in the terms used in the faraway sphere in the universe from whence I come. Kryptonite has not helped me whatsoever. Neither has Lysol. Perhaps I will try Thesaurus.

Bill H

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 06:44 PM

Bill H, you are actually quite funny, but not at all in the way that you think.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 06:44 PM

Grandma's Lysol has never failed before. You are just not scrubbing hard enough Bill.

Let's hear it loud and strong for Grandma's Lysol!!!
Good for everything around the place!!!
For your clothes, and dirty dishes,
For your hands, and for your face!!!

Oh!!! Clap your hands!!!


Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 06:56 PM

ROBIN: I love it---will surely try once again.

Carol C: Thank you. Now---as to reading my mind---in what way do I think? You have a hell of an opening here for a really great comment---and, hopefully, I can reply to add some levity to this discussion that is going back to the place from whence I came---nowhere.

Bill H

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Alonzo M. Zilch (inactive)
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 08:01 PM

With all due respect, Rabbi-Sol, the interpretation of Jewish law and customs around issues of intermarriage, may reflect your own ulta-Orthdox community, but they do not reflect the reality of modern Judaism -- Modern Orthodox, Conservative, Reconstuctionist and Refirm -- as practiced by the vast majority of Jews in the world today.

Excommunication, sitting Shiva for someone who intermarries, it doesn't happen in the modern world.

As you probably well know, the vast majority of conversions occur specifically because a Jew and his or her non-Jewish partner have decided to have a Jewish home and raise their children as Jews. Walk into the conversion classes at almost any synagogue in America, and virtually every student is engaged to a Jew.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 09:04 PM

Alonzo; There are still some of us who practice our religion the good old fashioned way, as God meant it to be. We can not bend the Torah to fit the modern world or the 21st century idea of political correctness. In our orthodox enclave of Monsey, N.Y. there are no such things as conversion classes. Yes, there are converts, even in my own family, and I am proud of how righteous they are. But is more of a one on one situation rather than a mass classroom spectacle. But in every situation, the person was already a fully & properly converted Jew BEFORE meeting their prospective spouse, not vice versa. SOL ZELLER

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 10:24 PM

So Pollard is the only person sitting in jail in the United States who shouldn't be?

Such a shame Leonard Peltier isn't a Jew- maybe his plight would get more press?

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 10:41 PM

Actually, I have more sympathy for Mordechai Vanunu - he told the world about what could have been a very deadly secret, just like some Germans did in the late 30's/early 40's. And it's interesting that while trying to deny that what he said was true, they want to make an example of him for doing what he did for altruistic reasons. Lots of similarity, just on the other side of the fence...

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Alonzo M. Zilch (inactive)
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 11:02 PM

So Pollard is the only person sitting in jail in the United States who shouldn't be?

Such a shame Leonard Peltier isn't a Jew- maybe his plight would get more press?

Greg F.,

Whether or not that was your intention, your comment is deeply offensive and its implications are recognizably anti-Semitic.

The Leonard Peltier case has had more prominence in the mainstream media than that of Jonathan Pollard.

Try doing Google searchs with each of their names in quotation marks. "Leonard Peltier" gets 54,300 hits. "Jonathan Pollard" gets 18,600.

Do a NEWS search at Google and "Leonard Peltier" gets 25 hits, most of them from mainstream media.

Do a NEWS search on "Jonathan Pollard" and you get 30 hits, 21 of which come from Jewish or Arab media outlets, and 3 of which are for other Jonathan Pollards.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Metchosin
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 11:05 PM

come now Foolestroupe, they did let Vanunu out of jail after 18 years, although he's not allowed to talk to anyone and he can't leave to country. He's still a very dangerous man according to court reckoning and they are worried he just might spill some more secrets about imaginary stuff that they don't have any secrets about.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 05:38 AM

Well Metchosin,

I suppose there's no answer to that! But as far as The Israelis are concerned, that's 'Just Us' for you!

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 09:02 AM

Lonzo:

Bullshit.

Thanks for confirming my point.

May I suggest you seek professional help?

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 10:31 AM

actually greg f. zilch was quite nice about and assumed you probably didn't recognize your bigotry forwhat it was.

he didn't conform your point. he proved just the opposite.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 01:05 PM

Also, if memory serves me correctly, Pollard's guilty plea was supposed to provide leniency for his then wife Anne. Instead, they threw the book at her also. I believe that she served 7 years of a 15 year sentence and was let out early because she was in poor health & suffered from ulcerative colitis. Jonathan gave Anne a Get (Jewish Divorce), when it became apparent that he would have to spend the rest of his life in prison. This way she would be free to marry someone else and raise a family. Pollards present wife, Esther,is a woman who became interested in his plight and married him while he was in prison. Rabbi Avi Weiss of Riverdale, Bronx, NY, a well known Jewish activist performed the ceremony in prison. Of course, the marriage has yet to be consummated and may never be as long as Pollard remains incarcerated. I have brought up this point just to present the human side of the issue. SOL ZELLER

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: GUEST,Maotzz
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 04:34 PM

Okay, Imagine, if you would, dire circumstances, having just come from driving through Canada, I know this is a difficult scenario to imagine, but walk with me here for a bit, to illustrate a point.

North Korea has missles pointed to Canada. USA intelligence has information about these missles. Mr. Murphy, (a name stolen from prior posts by CarolC) has duel citizenship with USA and Canada. He has come across this information. The missles are poised, and Mr. Murphy knows that time is of the essence, (he also knows about beaurocracy of the US government).

So, rather than see one of his beloved countries destroyed, he siphons information to the affected country, to alert them allowing action to be taken.

Now, seriously, wouldn't he be considered a hero by Canadians? Even if caught and imprisoned in USA?

Just a thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 04:39 PM

That one just won't fly. North Korea wouldn't do that because Canada is a nice country that knows how to mind its own business and let other countries alone to live thier lives in peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 04:43 PM

Another missed point, Carol C---or at best turned to serve your purpose.

Bill H

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 04:47 PM

Not at all, Bill H. If the GUEST can some up with an example that might possibly make some sense, I'll answer it in kind.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 04:48 PM

...anyway, the GUEST is just CarolC baiting, and I don't really feel like playing that game right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 04:48 PM

No, CarolC. North Korea wouldn't do that because Canada has a treaty with the US that says if anyone did that, the US would blow them away.

Let's be honest here.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: Metchosin
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 02:28 AM

Speaking of Canada, I do wish that MOSSAD would quit forging and using their fake Canadian passports to do their stuff. It makes their legitimate use for real Canadian citizens damned dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 08:03 AM

They're using New Zealand passports now. The NZ Govt has a couple of agents that they caught, on trial right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 09:55 AM

Saddam Hussein`s friend Oliver North along with his terrorist friends used forged Irish passports.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice For Jonathan Pollard
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 10:40 AM

No, CarolC. North Korea wouldn't do that because Canada has a treaty with the US that says if anyone did that, the US would blow them away.

Well then why would the US be concerned about North Korea posing a threat to the US? Our ability to blow them away ought to be just as effective as a deterrent to the North Koreans attacking us as it would be for them attacking Canada.

The fact is that North Korea has no reason to want to attack Canada.

As far as the perception of Pollard as a hero is concerned, the issue is how this perception effects the intelligence agencies in the US, not how this perception effects people like me. The fact is that as long as the perception of Pollard as a hero figure causes the intelligence agencies to see Pollard as a threat to security, this perception will harm Pollard's case for getting released. This is a reality over which I have no control.

Here's a hypothetical that I can get behind:

Daniel Ellsberg is a hero to me. If he had been made to serve a lengthy sentence in prison and I was trying to promote him to the public as a hero, and if there were people who were working behind the scenes to get him released and they said that people like me who were trying to promote him to the public as a hero were hurting their efforts and making Ellsberg's life more difficult, I would just shut up about it and let them do their work.