BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit

Subject: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 09:26 AM

Borrowing from Judaic culture.... background pasted below.

1. Whose death/loss do you mourn?
2. What is the anniversary of loss?
3. Are there any special ways you commemorate the loss at the anniversary, and how does this help you?
4. What help from fellow Mudcatters would you appreciate at that time?

This thread is a place to post answers to the above. Probably not the best place for people to post responses of sympathy.

I'll start us off.
1. My identical twin sister.
2. Lost in utero at about 5 months' gestation, around Christmas.
3. I recognize the cycle of it replaying in present time in my life, choose to see how present time is actually very wonderful, say goodbye again, and notice how the cycle is different each year in terms of how it hits me and where I am in the grieving/moving on process.
4. Realize that sometimes it's affecting me and since its effect is different each year, realize that I my be struggling with a new piece I don't manage well yet.

~Susan

===============================================================

Q. What is a Yahrzeit?
From Lisa Katz WARNING: POP-UPS ABOUND

A. Yahrzeit is a commemoration of the death of a Jew by a mourner (the child, sibling, spouse or parent of the deceased).

The date of the Yahrzeit, which is calculated according to the Hebrew calendar, is the anniversary of the death, not the burial.

The anniversary of the death of a loved one is naturally a solemn day, and Judaism helps the mourner experience this pain and and also honors the memory of the deceased via Yahrzeit rituals.

The main expression of the Yahrzeit is reciting the Mourner's Kaddish prayer. Lighting a Yahrzeit candle, a special memorial candle that burns for 24 hours, is another Yahrzeit practice. Only one Yahrzeit candle needs to be lit per household. Some people use an electric bulb instead of a candle today for safety reasons. The Yahzeit candle should be lit after dark on the evening before the anniversary of the death and burn for a full 24 hours. Many people visit the graves of the deceased on the Yahrzeit. Some people observe Yahrzeit by fasting.

While Jews have observed Yahrzeit since Talmudic times, the ceremony wasn't called Yahrzeit until the 16th century. The word comes from the German word Jahrzeit, a word used by the Christian Church for the occassion of honoring the dead.

In Judaism, Yahrzeit aids those in mourning and keeps the memory of the deceased alive.

[YAHRZEIT is also a term used for that part of synagogue worship where the names are recited as the anniversaries of congregants' losses come up in the year, and the term used to describe the list or calendar kept, of losses. ~S~]

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: Amos
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 09:49 AM

I can't help but feel this is an idea whose time will never come, because perpetuating a past loss tends to haul it forward instead of letting it go--to what purpose? I see no merit in the practice and it seems detrimental to recovery of freedom. The way out of a loss is to experience it fully and then allow it to stay in its right place in time. YMMV.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 09:59 AM

Doh!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 10:11 AM

This is an idea whose time came a long time ago, and it continues because people living in community find it helpful. It is a practice that is still very useful to many, many people. Posts that, in effect, tell people in advance that you are pre-set not to respect their need to grieve are IMO ill-considered. And Amos, tell me you feel this way about a YEAR from now.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: Once Famous
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 10:22 AM

Amos, you are a souless, hollow person.

Very good description Lisa Katz. Yahrzeit shows us how to carry the love and life of a loved one in our hearts. That is how they still are with us.

For us Jews, it's really not so much about the concept of heaven.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: Amos
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 10:22 AM

I think you have misunderstood me, Susan. I have every respect for the need to grieve. When you shift from timely grief to institutionalized regret you are doing the spirit a disservice by reinforcing the burden and validating the disability that grief imposes. No one HAS to get over a loss, but I think in general it is a healthy thing to do.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 10:27 AM

See your PM, Amos. This thread is not a place for posturing platforms.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 10:29 AM

Amos, it's not something I would do. I'd rather remember birthdays or other, happier, significant events, BUT... what's the liklihood that the anniversary of a loved one's loss will go by un-noticed, unremarked? It's not 'institutional regret'. It's a way to cope.

Anniversaries like this will come, people will remember and they'll think how their lives were changed. They'll feel lonely and wish there was something they could do and someone else who remembered, someone they could talk to.

If it helps, why not? If it doesn't help you, it may still help someone else get through hard days.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: Amos
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 10:31 AM

Hey, if it is needed, use it in good health. SOrry for the thread drift.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 11:17 AM

Seems to me we already do this at Mudcat, quite a bit. Maybe it's only for recent losses, but I think most of us would feel comfortable saying something about an old loss, too.

Oh, well if it helps one, it's worth it.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 11:20 AM

We talk about it, but nowhere is there a calendar all in one place that can be followed.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 01:11 PM

I think the mudcat obit page needs to be updated a bit...sadly.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: Nerd
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 01:40 PM

We Jews always remember the bad as well as the good. Many of our holidays, even the most festive ones such as Purim, celebrate times when a great disaster or genocide was narrowly averted.

That said, I don't think in practice Yahrzeit is particularly morbid or that it causes us to dwell on our grief more than anyone else. We get over our losses in time just as anyone does. I don't recall my father becoming overly worked up during yahrzeit for his mother or his father, both of whom died before I was born. It was always just a day to remember and a week to say a special prayer (the mourner's kaddish) in synagogue.

Plenty of Christians say an extra prayer and go put flowers on a loved one's grave onthe anniversary of their death. This is the same thing. In fact, as the original post points out, the name Yahrzeit was first applied to the Christian versions of this practice, then borrowed by Jews to refer to their pre-existing tradition.

Finally, I think it CAN be a healthy thing to recall (not relive or reopen) one's grief. Among other things, it makes one more reluctant to call for anyone else's death. Remembering how it made you feel when Momma died, you may not want anyone else's Momma to die.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: Amos
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 01:53 PM

Well said, Nerd. Thanks.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: Jeanie
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 02:05 PM

((((Susan)))), I also remember my twin sister, who died undetected and partially developed in utero on an unknown date and was born with me on May 10th. The feelings you and I have, as the surviving twins under these circumstances have much in common with all loss, but also have something remarkable and unique to this situation. I have always found it very helpful and illuminating to talk to other surviving twins through the Lone Twin Network (in Britain; there are similar organisations in the US and Australia).

A natural time for me to think of my twin is on my birthday. It always happens naturally, I never seem to have to make that happen in any kind of formal way. I see it as a time to celebrate and give thanks for precious life and to hope that by living my life to the full and in the best way I can, I am also acknowledging her.

I know exactly what you mean about 'the cycle replaying itself in different ways in present time'. There are times in life (any time in the year, not only a particular anniversary) when present circumstances seem overwhelming and life becomes full of all kinds of "what-might-have-beens", including thoughts of people who are not here with us. It can happen on happy occasions, too. I remember my dad most, for instance, when I'm listening to my daughter playing the flute, or when she and I are aching with laughter.

What starts off as some small thing that spontaneously sparks thoughts of the lost one can be turned around into a lovely *way* of remembering or honouring someone. I have two of these, very personal to me, for my twin: Some years ago, in a meditation workshop, all participants were asked to "hold your own hand". Perhaps only another surviving twin can appreciate what that means. The other came from the surprising spontaneous reaction I had the first time I heard myself singing alongside another track of myself on a recording. I couldn't help but grin from ear to ear. Then I realized why. Singing has become extra enjoyable ever since. Again, maybe only another surviving twin would understand this. It's just a knowing that when I'm doing what I enjoy in life and really feeling that I'm living, she's doing it, too. What better reason to enjoy all that is good ?

All the above is very personal and individual, as it inevitably must be.

- jeanie

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 03:43 PM

I'm not Jewish, but I thought that I understood that yahrzeit occurs only once after each death, one year afterwards. It doesn't occur every year, like an anniversary. It's supposed to mark the end of the period of mourning. The moral/spiritual lesson here is that mourning doesn't go on forever.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: Nerd
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 03:48 PM

Practice varies, Jim. Certainly reciting the mourner's kaddish is something that many Jews do year after year.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 03:54 PM

I think the idea here is to build a Mudcat-specific tradition or gather up a list of dates from which we can then go about whatever each of us finds most useful.

I'm sure Yahrzeit has a variety of traditions attached to it, as does the Christian equivalent. I hope Martin Gibson and others will tell us more of the Jewish observances.

In our denomination, there is an annual recitation at the annual diocesan convention, of who has passed on during that year. For some of us, it's the first we hear of some folks' passing. But in the parish, there is also the lighting of memorial candles supplied by surviors, each year. I'm not describing that right-- candles and flowers are in use every week, and some people like to fund the purchase for a particular week... might be a death anniversary or a birthday, etc., we don't ask. The name of their departed is listed in the service bulletin.

I like it-- these are usually people long gone, but hearing the names gives me something to ask about when I see their survivors, next-- and they love telling the stories of that person. I like seeing the names of people in the bookplate for the pew books too-- "This hymnal given in memory of xxxx", the bookplate all yellow with time-- and again, it gives me a starting point with our older parishioners, to start them telling stories of humor and wisdom.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 04:13 PM

To correct an error by Susan Katz. The term used for the Synagogue service when the names of the dead are mentioned and commemorated is YIZKOR not yahrzeit. This is recited 4 times a year on these specific holidays. 1. Yom Kippur (Day Of Atonement) 2. Shemini Atzeres (Eighth Day of Solemn Assembly after Succos). 3. Passover (on the 8th day thereof). 4. Shavuos (Pentecost) on the second day. During that portion of the service when YIZKOR is recited, all people with living parents must exit the Synagogue, and only those who have a need to recite the service remain during its recitation. I will be willing to answer any specific questions about Jewish ritual and custom concerning death and mourning. Unfortunately I have had more than my share of experience in such matters. SOL ZELLER

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 06:07 PM

When it comes to loss we each respond differently in how we cope over time. A simple truism.

For me I find no particular signifigance in a particular date. My memories stored in some mental compartment which I visit when needed. I have a dear friend who lost a son in an automible crash some 25 years ago now.   To this day she cannot bear the month of April (when this happened) and commemorates it in her way for the entire month.   Many times she tells me how I upset about my loss when the date of that rolls around---I try to tell her what I said above.

Yet, as the other thread about meaningful people in your life made me realize, posting things on Mudcat might well help people feel a comfort in sharing and talking about things on this new electronic community we have.

All depends on the individual and how they cope and fulfill their needs. Which makes me think of the earlier post by Amos that said you don't have to get over grief but that it is probably a healthy thing to do ((paraphrase). Institutionalizing it, I agree, is not all that meaningful. What ever , as said, helps is the right thing and you can use whatever name you want ---secular or religious.


Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: LilyFestre
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 06:16 PM

1. Whose death/loss do you mourn?
2. What is the anniversary of loss?
3. Are there any special ways you commemorate the loss at the anniversary, and how does this help you?



1. John Steven Talbert, my best friend
2. September 9, 1999
3. Aside from millions of conversations about nothing and everything all in the same breath, John and I spent a great deal of time riding our bikes, going for walks and frequent photography adventures. On the anniversary of his death, I prefer to carry something that was his in my pocket, carry my camera around and search for something we both would have found interesting. His photo hangs in our bedroom....I remember him each and every day and wonder how the world will ever be the same...of course it never will be. I am thankful for the time I got to share with him and the HUGE impact he had on my life. As long as I live, he will never, EVER be forgotten.
Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 03:38 AM

No, Jim, as far as I know, the Yahrzeit is commemorated every year in most Jewish traditions. In fact, a common tradition is that the end of the period of mourning (that is, the time during which one says the Kaddish prayer every day) comes 11 months after the death. That, as I understand it, is the practice that signifies that mourning should have an end, and not "take up" an entire year. But as Nerd says, there are many traditions, which may differ widely from congregation to congregation or family to family. For example, Rabbi Sol's statement that those who do not have a loss to mourn "must leave the synagogue" during the Yizkor service is not the practice in many congregations, especially, as I understand it, in the Reform tradition. Often, especially on Yom Kippur, the Yizkor service in those congregations is done in commemoration of the murders of millions of Jews and non-Jews in the Shoah, or Holocaust, and all are welcome to stay and remember.

In response to Amos' original post, I think the point of the Yahrzeit and Yizkor observances is that there is a difference between mourning and remembering. Yahrzeit, for me, is not a time to "re-mourn" my dad, but to remember him consciously, for a whole day, in an active, loving way. We light a 24-hour candle each year to help with that intent.

Susan, I, like many others here, seem to find myself more inclined to continue the discussion of remembrance and mourning than in contributing to the thread in the way you had originated it. No disrespect intended. I'm sure others, like Michelle, will take the opportunity to add their names to the list. Then later maybe you can edit out the commentary.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 08:17 AM

1. Byron Smith, my beloved, my soul mate
2. Oct. 5, 2003
3. I don't know yet. I have asked my dearest friends (and his) to spend the evening with me.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 10:03 AM

Mark Cohen: Thanks for the clarification. Does anything special happen on the last day of the 11th month? If so, maybe that's what I was confusing with Yahrzeit.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 10:19 AM

Mark,

I don't mind the discussion of it at all, I just hope for positive contributions instead of a debate on whether "we" "need" this thread. And yes, any date/season-specific entries will be edited into a chrono order that I'll either repost or make available via PM.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 07:35 PM

The Jewish mourning period is an entire year (12 lunar months), even though Kaddish is recited for only 11 lunar months minus one day. Tradition has it that all souls are usually sent to Purgatory for the first year after death. The recitation of the Kaddish is supposed to raise the soul one level at a time (monthly), from Purgatory to "Gan Eden" where the rightous dwell. Those who are deemed worthy are given a month off for good behavior during their lifetime. As we humans are not the proper ones to judge past behavior (only God can do it), we must assume that each and every soul merits only 11 months in Purgatory and not the full 12. That is why Kaddish is only recited for 11 months, but the mourning period must be observed for an entire year until the Yahrzeit. That day is determined as the anniversary of the day of death by the Jewish (lunar) calendar. Kaddish is then recited on that day and a 24 hour candle is lit as well, each and every year thereafter. By the way, the mourning period of 12 months is only for parents. For all other relatives (spouses, siblings, and children), the mourning period is only 30 days. SOL ZELLER

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 09:40 PM

The Rabbi knows!
Thank you, Rabbi.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: GUEST,-John Hindsill
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 12:26 AM

Yahrzeit, the annual Jewish ritual, is not,strictly speaking, mourning; it is more of a remembrance or commemoration of the deceased family member.

The Mourner's Kaddish, recited to the memory of the deceased does not, curiously enough, mention death. It is a paean to God, praising Him and His works. The words are the same as the Kaddish recited 3 or 4 times during the synagogue service, only the intent of the prayer is different at that moment.

I was bar mitzvah in an orthodox shul, and was married by the same rabbi fifteen years later, Simon Dolgin of blessed memory. I consider myself more in the conservative tradition, but generally go to reform temples in deference to my wife.

Rabbi Sol, I hope my comments were not too off base. Any way, L'Shana Tova (Happy New Year) to all.---John

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 04:54 AM

We Yanks have a national 'Yahrzeit' coming up tomorrow (Saturday). In case you think it doesn't matter, I saw on television last night, so it must be true, how at least in Boston popular marriage venues are going largely unused.

Oh, and obviously we're talking Solar calendar here.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 05:08 AM

"The Rabbi knows!
Thank you, Rabbi."

Niceties seem to come with topics close to your heart, you don't want to upset your own, MG you are a PHONEY through and through.

Apologies to the others on this thread for jumping in.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Yahrzeit
From: Once Famous
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 03:46 PM

Your asshole is close to your heart Guest. or rather to your moth.

Fuck off and die, please.

No one I am sure accepts your bigoted and arrogant apology.