Unwanted Accompaniment

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST,KB
Date: 12 Oct 04 - 07:10 AM

Good point. In time yes - but taking the timing & dynamics away from where I wanted to go. So, not really same situation as Raggytash - but related.

K

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 07:56 AM

Was the unwanted accompaniment in time with you, coz the author of this thread maintains that this was their concern not the accompaniment itself

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST,KB
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 07:47 AM

Hmm - some of the problem is in the mind of the performer.

Last time I went to venue X I had unwanted accompaniment from someone. I got REALLY annoyed, slowed down, speeded up, did everything I could to shake him off my tail and finished the song fuming. Needless to say I was too chicken to actually say anything to him - other than glare & bitch behind his back (oops).

This weekend I went to venue X again & the same chap accompanied me loudly and uninvited, but this time I was in a better mood to start with, took time to listen to what he was adding, turned round and played with him rather than against him, and had a fantastic time - the end result of which was much better music. It was a huge lesson to me - and has started a complete turnaround of my opinion.

I think, on reflection, I was being a bit too territorial on the first occasion and felt he was invading my personal musical space. On the second occasion we found a middle ground we could share. I was probably being a stroppy pre-menstrual bitch the first time - poor bloke! I can only hope he didn't notice how mean I was, and that I can be a bit more accepting and generous in future & not be so damned anal! Afterall it was only a pub, and full of people who want a good time rather than meticulously rehearsed performance.

cheers all

Kris
(I might even get to like shaky-eggs one day - but one step at a time, eh? .....)

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 05:11 AM

It's thoughtless people like this that spoil sing a rounds for me, they grab hold of a lump of wood and skin and think they're a musician, in my experience most people cannot even hold the beater correctly,never mind play. It creates so much antagonism for people who can actually play a Bodhran and keep time. They should be told in no uncertain terms that their contribution is not welcome

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: denise:^)
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 12:09 PM

I've definitely come across this problem, and I react differently, depending on how bad it is!

I've shaken my head slightly at some, ignored others, nodded at others to encourage them to join in fully (most 'round here join in softly, at first, to see if they're 'welcome').

Still other times, I've pushed bravely onward, wishing afterward that I'd had the nerve to speak up! (The worst was at an open stage, where a guy decided that Sally Rogers' "Lovely Agnes" needed an "oom-pah-pah" backup! While it *is* in 3/4 time, it's not a straight 3/4--there are pauses between vs. & chorus, etc.--places to breathe. These were all neatly obliterated by Mr. Oom-pah-pah--and I finished up gasping for air! That was an early-on experience; nowadays I would find a way to deal with it, and not 'endured to the end.')

From all the replies, I'd say there's not just one way to deal with this problem!

denise :^)

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 04:20 PM

Well - it happens enough for 153 messages to be posted !!!
No one's got THE answer - from being polite, to, the old fashioned "shut the f*ck up will you ".
It exists and that's the end of it - no universal solution - just take all occurrences on an individual basis, as, some are more annoying than others.
Know it's going to happen - without thinking it shouldn't happen.
It's irritating at times ,but don't forget it's sometimes proficient musicians playing along - stealing the thunder of the less talented individual who started the song or tune, which is the unwanted accompaniment - not as most of the thread supposes where duffers spoil good players. A thought........
Cheers

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST,Musician
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 02:36 PM

Guest Teacher?

No agenda - and no blame was being directed at "Teachers" for the bad manners, just the suggestion that they could also incorporate sympathetic playing techniques (which you say you do).

I see now you wish to imply that Raggytash could have been wrong - maybe he was at fault playing in the wrong tempo/rhythm for the bodran player and not inviting the bodran player's wife to join in?

There is no excuse for bad manners, in music or anywhere else and the posted example was bad manners.

I also believe there's a big difference between Music sessions, Song sessions and sing arounds with a vast variation in attitude to whether it is a "free for all" or not - if you invite someone to sing a song or play a tune it should be their choice if they want everyone, some or none to join in.

The post was looking for suggestions on resolving the problem I offered a suggestion - don't be so defensive.

I do believe there has been an increase in people coming and playing at sessions that is due to "Teachers" at Festivals and workshops many have such a short time to learn an instrument the easy way out is to buy a bodran, egg, spoons etc.. which they believe (wrongly)not to require any skill to play correctly so they can be a "part of it", which I am certainly not against and many new friends have been met this way, most are a welcomed addition to the sessions, but some have, as those mentioned in this thread, an attitude problem which I for one can do without when I'm out trying to enjoy myself with like minded people.

It is not defendable and if you (general not personal)can help as a "teacher" then I think you should do. Likewise session organisers (when such exist) should also do their best to control such situations and fellow members of the session.

ET

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST,Teacher
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 11:24 AM

I was interested in your agenda, musician. No-one had mentioned teachers until you introduced them as something to blame. Bad mannered teachers, bad mannered pupils, are not defendable. The original poster had only been to the session in question once before. Perhaps he was wrong? Or had he (or the bodhran player) been badly taught?

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 09:27 AM

Oh, Sttaw Legend!

I haven't seen that for years! Wasn't it part of something bigger?

Robin

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST,Musician
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 09:18 AM

Guest Teacher?,

Please read what I said: "The backing" from surrounding musicians and percussionists - I wasn't selective.

Maybe some of these "Teachers" at festivals and work shops could teach a bit of etiquette and good manners - You claim to do this well done.

I'm sorry but if someone was asked not to play (for whatever reason), and then their spouse further added to the problem by joining in, is just pure bad manners and to my mind should not have to tolerated.

re. "What about the self appointed rule makers who welcome newcomers who show huge talent and reject the ones who don't conform to their ideas of proper behaviour"

I'm not sure I can compare Talent to behaviour - I personally think a talented musician with bad manners is as bad as anyone with bad manners, talent doesn't negate bad manners.

I presume when you are teaching, you have some class rules, expect your students to have consideration for other students and they don't all bash away in their own tempo at the same time, or when you are trying to show them how to play?

If someone had been singing a different song at the same time as Raggytash in a different key and at the top of his/her voice would you think that was alright?

ET

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 07:44 AM

I `ad a folk sessioner in my cab once. I `ad the radio on and was listening to a "Strarse Waltz". `e started banging away on his bodhran but to the rythm of "The Wild Rover". I said, `old up mate, thats well out of order, this waltz is three beats to the bar. `e said, I know, I`m just practising for tonight!!
What am I like?

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 06:38 AM

Total drift but thinking of poking things in slots reminds me of a good laugh a few years ago. I was on a course which mostly had kids (16yr olds) but there were a couple of mature students on it. One of them was very well respected as being serious, concentrating on learning, etc. generaly a model student. It was to the amazement of all of us that in a programming class he suddenly called the tutor over explaining he had got one of those geometry triangle things stuck in a floppy disk drive. Even the tutor laughed.

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 06:28 AM

???

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 06:08 AM

Congratulations!
You have purchased an extremely fine device that would give you thousands of years of trouble-free service, except that you undoubtedly will destroy it via some typical bone-head consumer maneuver. Which is why we ask you to please for god's sake read this owner's manual carefully before you unpack the device. You already unpacked it, didn't you? You unpacked it and plugged it in and turned it on and fiddled with the knobs, and now your child, the same child who once shoved a polish sausage into your videocassette recorder and set it on "fast forward", this child also is fiddling with the knobs, right? And you're just now starting to read the instructions, right??? We might as well just break these devices right at the factory before we ship them out.

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST,Teacher?
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 05:29 AM

Somebody with an agenda here, eh guest musician?

I teach bodhran and bones and part of my 'lesson' plan is to play with sensitivity to others. Percussion can lift a piece of music and add to it. Why not whinge about twenty guitars in a session, playing a different rhythm to the penny whistle? Or the self taught instrumentalists who believe that no-one can teach music - it's in you, or not.
What about the self appointed rule makers who welcome newcomers who show huge talent and reject the ones who don't conform to their ideas of proper behaviour.
Sessions are not concerts. The sessions I frequent (Praise be) are inclusive ones (not many about.
There thats my whinge.

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 06:11 PM

Tricky one, that. You could try playing louder, and at the same time giving the offending party a look that would curdle new milk... but then again that might spark off one of those horrific 'louder than thou' battles...
What i would object to most in this situation would not be the fact that the guy was not keeping rythym or that he joined in in the first place, but that he continued to play after he had explicitly been asked to stop, and that his wife escalated the situation by joining in. If these people were rude enough to ignore your wifes perfectly reasonable request, it might be hoped that they will be given the cold shoulder and either crawl off into the woodwork or learn some manners.

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: mg
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 03:53 PM

maybe if you have that problem a lot set aside a few songs, like "Tie me kangaroo down"...etc. and say give it your all with the rattles, tamborines, whatevers.....and let it be known that there will be a few more but in general.....mg

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 02:19 PM

Shaky eggs do have the merit of being fairly quiet. Remember, the eggy person who can't keep time could have been playing a bodhran, or even bongoes.

(I'm sure it's possible to play bongoes in a way that doesn't spoil things, but I think it must be pretty difficult. Much harder than the bodhran, where, once a beginner realises that they are supposed to play to the tune rather than play to the rhythm, it can fall into place pretty quickly. But bongo payers seem to find it hard to accept that way of thinking.)

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: John J
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 08:47 AM

I had a similar problem a couple of years ago, the matter was discussed extensively on this site. The net result is that whilst I was a regular at the folk club involved, I now rarely go to the club. My loss.

Good luck dealing with this very difficult situation.

Best wishes,

John

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST,Musician
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 04:59 AM

It's just a shame that so many have such bad manners. A session (music or singing) is about having fun and if one persons bad manner ruin the fun for others. I was at a session a few weeks ago and someone was trying to sing a song "The backing" from surrounding musicians and percussionists (I'm being polite) was so loud you couldn't hear a word that was being sung.

Maybe some of these "Teachers" at festivals and work shops could teach a bit of etiquette and good manners then the need wouldn't arise when someone feels he/she needs to ask someone to be quiet or F.O. as suggested. They have a lot to answer for when it comes to the onslaught of new members to sessions carrying a barrage of Bodrans, rattles, spoons, tambourines, eggs and other noise making machines, with the attitude it's ok to join in at a session as long as your having fun ability doesn't matter as long as you're enthusiastic and make sure everyone can hear you not the poor sod who's been learning his instrument for years and rehearsing a new song.


Sorry Raggytash - you shouldn't have to put up with such bad manners and the attitude when asked to be quiet was just what I would have expected from this type of person.

ET

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: Eye Lander
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 02:30 AM

My partner generally announces 'THIS is an unaccompanied folk song'. Usually works but I have to say not always. It's the person playing concertina that doesn't know the tune that is the problem - after my partner had sung a note the player then tried to find the note on their concertina by that time partner was singing next note. Consequently everything sounding out of tune and singer totally distracted!

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 09:58 PM

While the bongos CAN be played softly and subtly, every instrument has its limitations...

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 09:34 PM

The substance of the thread is about the performance, what is the "norm" by the performer, and what is expected of those who suport the performance.

As an example, was it not the Great Ralph McTell this year at Cambridge who basically had to ask the audience to let him do "HIS" version of Clare To Here, rather than let the audience lead the chorus in their version.

Here was an international artist having to request a fee paying audience to let him do the song his way !

Even in a local "Session" the "Lead" performer has a right to expect that people will let them do their own personal version, and accompaniests play along with that, rather than impose another verion of the song/tune on the "lead" performer.

If they can't "accompany" they should shut up !!

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: HuwG
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 04:10 PM

I recall posting on another thread on session etiquette a couple of years ago, that somebody once tried to join in my rendition of, Duw, it's hard, with an accompaniment on bongos. It is rather hard to imagine a song and instrument worse suited to each other.

I silenced the accompaniment with a ferocious glare. After I finished, someone who had been listening but not watching, asked me why I put so much venom into the words, "... roll to rest amidst the dust ...".

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 03:30 PM

Following upon Sttraw Legend, here:—

        A baby boy was born to a young married couple. This, of course, was nothing unusual. What was a bit unusual was that the baby rarely if ever cried. He was an extremely quiet and seemingly contented child. When, by the age of two, he had not yet begun to talk, the couple took him to the pediatrician and expressed their concern. The pediatrician examined him thoroughly and pronounced him perfectly normal. He said, "Some children just don't start talking until later. I wouldn't worry about it."
        Another year passed. When he still hadn't spoken, the couple took him to a child psychologist. The psychologist gave him a battery of tests, and other than the fact that he would only respond to the psychiatrist' s verbal questions by nodding or shaking his head, the psychiatrist also pronounced him perfectly normal. In fact, the child seemed quite bright.
        More years passed, and the child still didn't speak. At the appropriate time, they enrolled him in school. He did quite well and got good grades. Straight B's, in fact. His teachers said that he got straight A's on his tests, but since he never participated actively in class discussions, the best overall grades they could give him were B's.
        The couple was mystified. Physiologically the boy was normal and several psychologists had declared him mentally healthy and quite intelligent. All through grade school and high school, he rarely got into mischief and never got into any serious trouble. He had lots of friends who liked him because he was friendly, helpful—and quiet. He seemed, almost, the ideal child. But he never spoke.
        One evening at the dinner table, the boy said, "These carrots taste kind of bitter."
        His parents dropped their forks simultaneously and stared at the boy, wide-eyed and amazed. When they had recovered from their shock, the father said, "You talked! You can talk! "
        The boy nodded.
        The mother asked, "Could you have talked all this time?"
        The boy nodded began.
        Then . . . why haven't you ever said anything?"
        "Well," said the boy, "everything was just fine until now."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: Ross
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 08:51 AM

No problem Raggytash - it was quite a valid question

It's just a bit stunning how it seems to have ignited opinion

The answer is probably up there with the `meaning of life' question

Stay happy and don't pour your beer over any offender's head (cos that's a waste)

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST,KB
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 08:39 AM

Anyone reckon a bouncy shaky-egg accompaniment is a good idea on Shipbuilding? I suppose anyone can make a mistake though........

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 08:35 AM

200. I thank you.

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: moocowpoo
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 08:33 AM

I love a bit of an upset at a session, it's part of their dynamic.....I think it   would be pretty dull to have nothing to have a light hearted whinge, or better still, laugh about.
I was once in a sesh in Ennis, there was a guy playing spoons over the top of the most beautiful slow airs. A man began a lovely song and, sure enough, in comes spoonboy, the singer just started laughing. I enjoy playing tunes *and accompanying them, I love to hear a good song (even a bad one), most of all I love to see and be part of a situation like that one, people at their best, being humans ABOVE musicians.   
Of course there are all the times you just want to sing the songs or play the tunes, Personally I wouldn't tell anyone to shut up but I think the best approach is the one your wife took, a quiet "shh"
I dont know why they persisted, hurt pride I suppose. If someone "shhhed" my playing I would be quite hurt, although I am very sensitive to different styles and I think I have a good idea of when my accompanying of a singer will be appropriate (or not).
The same thing happened with a session I went to for years, a player, out of time and super loud, I believe sessions are about practice and sharing, it was a bit loud though...Nobody told her, nobody made a huge thing of it, she stopped coming anyway......the point of my post has presently scampered off like an errant, naughty puppy. I'd better put up posters now and contact the pound.
muhkuhpuh

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 06:40 AM

A man in the Middle Ages became fed up with humanity and decided to spend the rest of his life in a monastery. The abbot warned him that he would have to take a vow of silence and live the rest of his life as a scribe. The man replied, "No problem. I'm sick of talking."

Ten years went by, and the abbot called for the man. He told him that he was model monk and perfect scribe, and they were very happy with him. As per tradition he was allowed to say two words. So he nodded and said, "Food cold." The abbot sent him on his way.

Ten years later, he was brought before the abbot again and told how pleased they were with his performance, and he was again allowed two more words. The man said, "Bed hard," and was sent back to work.

Another ten years went by and again the abbot sent for the man, telling him he was the best monk they had ever had, and that he was allowed another two words. The man nodded and said, "I quit."

Abbot replied in a disgusted tone, "Doesn't surprise me. You've done nothing but WHINGE since you got here."

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 06:39 AM

Both my wife and my son play Bodhran, I don't have a problem with the instrument itself

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 06:38 AM

I can never tell whether raggy is singing or not, because his huge moustache totally covers his gob! That's probably why I always seem to playing flamenco over him.

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST,Sam
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 06:33 AM

It sounds like a mega whinge to me that is not really answering the original question, but simply giving people the opportunity to moan and groan at bodhran players and the like who go to folk clubs for enjoyment, same as everyone else in a session. We must be very careful not to appear elitist and in my opinion this thread is drifting that way. That's my whinge out the way....

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 06:09 AM

Eh Up Ross, I was not whinging merely seeking advice on how to diffuse a potential upset

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: Ross
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 06:03 AM

Blimey - this must be the whinge of the century

How can you tell when a plane load of folkies land - you can still hear the whining after they've turned the engines off

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 06:01 AM

So long as you are genuinely courteous about asking someone to be quiet, if they get offended that is their choice.

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: Jeanie
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 05:48 AM

I don't think you can be selective about who joins in with you, in a joining-in type of event, *without* offending someone !

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 05:21 AM

Jeanie

Thats not how I read Raggytash's start, his objection was not to someone joining in, but joining in in (as he put it) a different rythym and putting him off

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: Jeanie
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 04:58 AM

The way Raggytash described the event, people were not playing as individuals: "The session in question was a take-your-turn session, but as always with such sessions, if someone played a tune, e.g. on accordion, several others joined in on diverse musical instruments."

If, in sessions like this, Raggytash (or anyone else with this problem) wants to "get someone to stop without offending them", I think he would have to stop *everyone* from starting to accompany him in the first place. When it came to his turn to start a tune or song, he would have to say: "I know you're all playing/singing along with all the other tunes, but for my turn, I am going to play/sing XYZ on my own," and his would be a solo performance each time his turn came round. The only fair thing to do then, of course, would be for him to refrain from playing/singing along with any of the other people when it was their turn to start a tune !

I think you have to make a choice of either saying "My turns are always solos" or welcoming all-comers and being an all-comer yourself. There are consequences that you have to be prepared to accept, whichever option you choose ;)

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 04:14 AM

Lin/Dick

In this instance it was not a Jam session, but a session where people played and or sang as individuals, even had it been a Jam session if one person leads with a 12 barre it is not appropriate for someone else to start laying down a reggae rythym, all that happens then is a discordant noise.
What Raggytash encountered was someone playing at odds with the rythym he was using, not the best guitarist (as he himself will admit to) in the world he was put off by this and the person in question was asked to stop but carried on regardless. Raggytash is seeking a way to ensure he can get someone to stop without offending them

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST,Lin in Kansas, Cookieless
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 10:15 PM

Ah, crud...not only did I hit the ENTER button when I didn't mean to, but I just noticed something ate my cookie.

To continue:

...As Dick said, a jam session is NOT, repeat NOT, a performance venue! If performing solo is the main objective, then find a stage and perform. Jams are for people to participate in the music, and to contribute to the fun and enjoy learning new songs, chords, runs, rhythms, etc. I play a concertina, and there are any number of songs our jam group plays that I do not and would not accompany with the concertina. That's why I take my lap dulcimer along, too. It's quiet, and I can play along with nearly anything "in the background," including behind the guitarist's back, without causing problems for anyone due to my "noise." Perhaps you might suggest to the bodhran and rattle players that they take up a quieter instrument?

But I think Dick's solution of yelling "Take it!" to the bodhran player would work wonderfully! Seems to me it would be a little difficult to keep the song going on only a bodhran, even if the rattler did "chime" in!

P.S. I've been guilty of the rattle thing myself. The first year I attended the Winfield Festival, I wanted so much to be a part of the campground picking that I took my rattle with me from camp to camp, not realizing that it was driving the "bluegrassers" nuts. A kind lady at one of the camps asked if she could use it, and she and her guitarist/singer friend made it abundantly (and politely) clear to me that it was not appropriate to shake the cursed thing to the music they were playing, even if I did manage to keep the rhythms right. I think the singer's comment was something to the effect of "Get that thing away from me--it sounds like a damned rattlesnake!" That was the year I bought my dulcimer. Spent the next year learning some songs to play along next time...

Thanks, lady! And she didn't hurt my feelings, either--in fact thanked me for the use of the rattle and gave me a big grin I couldn't help but return.

Lin

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 09:56 PM

Dick Greenhaus--

Yes, exactly! Give 'em a break; that'll do more to shut 'em up than any amount of evil looks.

And I wholeheartedly agree too that a jam session is NOT

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: MaineDog
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 05:13 PM

Is seems like all of these contention threads are really about spoiled children doing what they are best at.

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: kendall
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 04:22 PM

When a hammer is the only tool you have, everything looks like a nail.

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 03:27 PM

Part of it is whether or not the person with the bongos has a sense of appropriateness. Calling on my experience in the Pamir House milieu again, if Mike Atwood drew upon his large repertoire of Kingston Trio songs and sang Zombie Jamboree, for example, the bongos would go well with that. If Jim Wilhelm sings a lullabye or I do The Three Ravens, it would not be. Unfortunately, most bongo players that I've run into don't have that sense of appropriateness.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: synbyn
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 03:25 PM

Is it true that anyone who plays an instrument with a hide must have a thicker skin?

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 03:12 PM

One problem is that, on the whole, people who are into playing in sessions are the kind who let things go until they can work up enough steam to get angry. So rather than asking politely at the right time, they wait and wait, and then lose their temper.

That's the worst of both worlds. It ends with the objector feeling embarrassed and upset, because in retrospect they overdid it, while the twit with the bongoes is bewildered, because, by that time, he (or conceivably she) had been given the message that the bongo playing was quite all right - and then, out of the blue, it wasn't.

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: PoppaGator
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 02:07 PM

Attendees at any kind of session/singalong/whatever should resonably expect an enjoyable time playing together with other *musicians.* While it's unreasonable to expect all said musicians to be equally skilled, it's *not* unreasonable to expect totally UN-musical noisemakers to somehow be constrained, if not excluded.

It's also not at all unreasonable to expect beginners -- and all players unfamiliar with a given selection -- to self-censor and back off when appropriate.

How to achieve this aim peacefully and tactfully -- well, that's a problem and always will be. These problems have to be solved on the spot, on a case-by-case basis. I doubt we'll be able to come up with a solution that'll work in every situation.

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 01:47 PM

Surely "Pains in the Arse" for people with a conventional anatomy.

Subject: RE: Unwanted Accompaniment
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 01:34 PM

Pain In The Arses, OM.