Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...

Subject: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 02:46 PM

I was watching MTV earlier, and not one song i heard was written or performed with any intelligence, passion, or integrity...

Don't get me wrong, i love a lot of the music out there. What i'm talking about is the material that seems to be churned out with this formula in mind...

1- Write a song. The melody must be almost exactly the same as everything else in the charts. Must include the following lyric...'i love you, baby/ you drive me crazy'.

2- Get someone who looks almost exactly like everyone else in the charts to sing it.

3- Market it to ten year olds.

4- Wait for cheque to arrive.

When, how, and most importantly WHY did this crap come to be considered music? Just curious..

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 02:47 PM

Why ISN'T it music?

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 02:50 PM

It's the musical equivilant of silicone breast implants. Looks good, but isn't geniune and has no longevity.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 03:26 PM

It's a formula that has worked since the fifties at least. No reason to change it. If people like it, they buy it.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 03:35 PM

You say 'brest implants' like they are a bad thing... Some people like big fake titties... so what?

"If people like it, they buy it"
'Zactly

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 03:39 PM

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with people making it , liking it, or buying it. I'm asking why nobody's asking for more...

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 03:43 PM

For more quality than that? Or more of the same thing? I certainly wouldn't.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Maryrrf
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 03:45 PM

I once asked a DJ if people listen to this type of "formula" pop music because it's crammed down their throats, or do they get it because that's what they like. He said that's what people like. "Unfortunately most people don't like to be challenged. They want a formula - it's familiar, it's comfy - they know what to expect". He was upset because he'd been hosting an eclectic local music show and it had just been yanked out from under him because the small station he worked for had been bought out by a megastation. I'm into my own thing and I agree with Blisfully Ignorant's description of what's on MTV. But we are probably the odd ones out on this one.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 03:45 PM

For more what?

People want what they want... some go one way... other go another...

No one is to be faulted

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 03:46 PM

The people who don't buy it, have found 'more'.
The people who do buy it have found what they want.
I think it's just not your cup of tea?

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 03:51 PM

Why do people not want to be challenged, why do they stick to the familiar? I'm not faulting anyone, i'm just curious

I mean asking for more passion, more meaning.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 03:52 PM

Maybe they find enough 'passion' and 'meaning' in what they have???

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 03:54 PM

A+ for creative thread title!

Lots of reasons why we never watch mtv anymore...I think the main reason is that marketing to ten year old when it used to be geared more towards mid-teen to young adult and even some older markets. Now, it just sucks...but hey, if they all want to suck there it's their right. What bugs me is when I go shopping and here the same bullshit piped into store sound systems!

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 03:54 PM

Maybe it has all the passion and meaning that they need.
Maybe they have enough of both in their real day to day relationship.
Maybe they like bopping around the kitchen when they are making the breakfasts.
Maybe they are stretched much further in other ways that you would not find interesting.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 03:57 PM

God, i only asked...

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 03:58 PM

Were you not expecting answers then?

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 04:02 PM

Or only expecting answers that YOU'D agree with??

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Helen
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 04:13 PM

I just wrote a long reply and then my browser went crashy-poo. So, here is an approximation of what I said:

The Australian Idol show just had the grand final last weekend. You know the way it works - you get a host of everyday people to audition as singers and then the public (read "teenage girls") vote and then you end up with a singer that the public (i.e. teenage girls) think (feel) should be in the public gaze, and not necessarily because they are good at singing. Last year I think the teenage girl market took over the process but this year, with some helpful advice from the judges, the process really worked to find someone who can actually sing.

And the really interesting thing is that Casey Donovan, the winner, is not part of the usual commercial pop-crap-pap. She is more grunge/heavy metal than blonde bimbo. She is dark haired and doesn't sing the usual stuff. And what she does sing is from her heart and soul. But interestingly she is heavily built and not anorexic. She is totally opposite to what the commercial music-mongers have been palming off on us.

I'm sure that Casey winning the contest has totally surprised the music marketers. It has been so, so long since I have heard any singer who gives me the cold shivers, apart from the usual ones like Billie Holliday, Edith Piaf and Paul Robeson, etc of course

To hear & see some video clips check her out here: Australian Idol - finalists

The ones worth checking out are Episode 18 the R&B night, Episode 19 the Big Band night, the Idol's Choice episodes, etc etc and the Up Close & Personal show where she sang "Nothing Else Matters" by Metallica.

My hope for the future of Oz music has soared since Sunday night.

Helen

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 04:21 PM

Lighten up, Clint and Guest, BI expressed his view of such music and I guess that he was looking for others that might be similarly minded. Instead he got the probing challenges - "why do you think that?" etc and ended up defending his position, which he doesn't need to do. It's just a view.

BI, there are many who agree with you; in the Mudcat community probably even a higher %ge than in the real world. But not the majority, by a long chalk. Now, as to why the majority prefers to be "stretched in other ways", that's a big subject and any number of opinions could be valid. My own view is that it's a mix of what they have readily available on offer (pap), how far they are prepared to go to seek out something different musically (or in art generally), how they are taught to appreciate music (or not) in their education system and by their families and peers, and how much they trust the media that bombard them with advertising. Little in the world of commercial music happens accidentally. The only spanner in the works of big (music) business have been Darkness. The rest follows recipes.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 04:23 PM

BI is a her....

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 04:35 PM

No, i'm not just looking for answers i agree with. I asked a question because i don't know the answer and i'm looking to hear other people's opinions...that's all:0)

That's interesting about Australian Idol, "what she does sing is from her heart and soul". That's what i feel is missing in a lot of music, an emotional investment on the part of the artist.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 04:35 PM

Sometimes a song is just a song BI...

:-)

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Cluin
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 04:40 PM

I agree with everybody!

More insipid crap! Keep it comin'! I can't get enough!

*clap* *clap*

Major Domo!... bring forth my ranch dressing hose!

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 04:40 PM

Also, how many artists out there are not getting recognised, not due to any lack of talent but because they don't conform to the current musical fashion?

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 04:43 PM

BI is a her... what

A heritic?
A herbivore?
A hereford bull?


Ohhhh! A her! I get it:-)

I must say that I tend to agree with what she is saying and just because it is one persons point of view it does not make that person bad! I like Rolf Harris. Does that make me a bad person? I don't like Norma Waterson. Does that meke me evil?

Give her a break guys. She was just staing a point of view - just like you are stating one and it is very nice to see that no-one seems to be resorting to personal abuse. Time to rectify that I think...

No, seriously, there are times when you have to think to yourself 'This is pants!' I keep listening to pop because every now and again there are real gems out there. But bad is still bad.

I used to ponder and worry why I don't particulary like the genres known as opera and jazz. I thought it was me and I was missing something sublime and clever until another Mudcatter (Who shall remain nameless) brought me back to my senses. 'No, you're not missing anything, Dave' he said. 'Most of it really is crap...'

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 04:44 PM

Oh yes - and another 10/10 for the title!

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 04:56 PM

That's why i watch mtv sometimes, just in case i'm missing something. Most of the time i could've had more fun with my head up my a**e, but sometimes something really good comes on...which, of course, makes me wonder why there isn't more of it.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 04:58 PM

"makes me wonder why there isn't more of it"

Because 95% of everything is cr@p???

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Cluin
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 04:59 PM

i could've had more fun with my head up my a**e


Details please, maybe with pictures?

Credit card okay?

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 05:02 PM

If you've got a million quid going spare i'd be happy to oblige. On second thoughts, a tenner would do...

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 05:07 PM

Because 95% of everything is cr@p???

LOL, Clinton - And probably spot on! Isn't the other 5% wonderful though?

:D

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 05:09 PM

The other 5% is what makes it all worth wild no?

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 05:20 PM

Just because the machine churns it out doesn't actually mean what they are churning out is what people particularly want. Often enough in the past the music industry has got stuck in a rut, or got completely out of touch.

These guys aren't always that clever - in February 1962 Decca Records, told Brian Epstein they weren't interested in the Beatles, "guitar groups are on the way out".

Record sales aren't too healthy these days, I believe. They blame it on the Internet, but that could just be one of the reasons. It could well be that the pop business is in one of its periodic spells in the doldrums, until something better breaks through.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 05:25 PM

"Just because the machine churns it out doesn't actually mean what they are churning out is what people particularly want."

I was kinda thinking that...everybody i've spoken to about this said they didn't like it, and they didn't know anyone who did...apart from a few younger siblings who grew out of it pretty quickly.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 05:26 PM

Actually, ummm... who was it... and where did I read it... It was an email newsletter that I get from an audiophile web-site... One of the big record companies has finally admitted that PtP file sharing is NOT the major culprit in declining record sales...

I seem to recall that the article suggested that declining musical 'quality' was likely more responsible for sagging sales figures...

So maybe people ARE expecting more after all eh BI????

I'll url to it, if I can find the article I'm thinking of.....

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 05:32 PM

I hope people are expecting more, if only because it might lead to some variety and originality appearing in mainstream music.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 05:36 PM

I'm not sure that's what the 'mainstream' is for...

Know why they call it 'main-stream-'?

Cause it's shallow and fast-moving....

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 05:38 PM

Lol! Not to mention full of sewerage...

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 05:39 PM

bi if you can, read a new music mag or tune to a different radio station, seek what is outside the 'mainstream'. It becomes mainstream by becoming popular. It becomes popular by people listening with open ears and eyes and mind. Music is being made everyday. It is not always heard though. Explore.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 05:41 PM

"Not to mention full of sewerage..."

That's as may be... but it's gotta go somewhere no?

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Cluin
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 05:43 PM

It's all Dixie Cup music anyway. Use it up and throw it away.

Until it ends up on a K-Tel album 15 years later, sold on a late night infomercial. MTV has been wallowing on the bottom for years.

I was watching The Band's "The Last Waltz" a couple of months ago. Great lineup of talent there but it occurred to me that most of those folks wouldn't make it big today. They weren't pretty enough for the music video market.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Lighter
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 05:51 PM

As observed,"formulas" have been used for decades. But it used to be that the lyrics had to make sense and be sung so that you could understand what they were saying.

Let's not overlook the fact that much music Mudcatters like is formulaic too: "Ooooooooo, that bad ol' system's gettin' me down!"

Not disputing the idea, just pointing out it's a formula.

As readers of genre fiction know, despite the presence of formulas some writers are just a more talented than others.

To paraphrase Robert Heinlein, 95% of EVERYTHING is bullpoo, so why pick on MTV.

(Aw, go ahead, pick on it! The stuff does suck.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 05:55 PM

I do explore new music...

"Music is being made everyday. It is not always heard though."
So why is it not being heard? As far as i can see, it's because it isn't what the industry sees as being popular...and if the industry is ignoring the opinions of the record buying public, then it can't become popular through people listening to it.

Of course we're being fed the official line...it's all because of file sharing! File sharing is killing music, just like home taping was...which is of course utter bollocks....

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Fliss
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 05:57 PM

Ive enjoyed reading the thread. I get subjected to MTV when I visit my sister. Her kids are at that teenage stage where its background music but woe betide you if you change channels. I came home from a visit the other year singing "Who let the dogs out!!"

Sometime a stunning song wins thru the noise.

I still cant get over the fact that the entertainers at OAP homes will be singing Beatles hits when we are in residence... Wots it going to sound like in years to come with all the boy band hits churned out at concerts for OAPs ?

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 06:01 PM

But if people bought it, it would become popular? Is popular a benchmark of good?

Read a music mag that has no record company backing. Find out what is happening in print. If it sounds good on paper, hunt it out and listen to it. Sometimes music has to be discovered. Sometimes you have to do the legwork yourself. MTV suits those who like their opinions formed for them.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 06:01 PM

Good point...but i think one of the trademarks of boybands and their hits is that they don't last long, thankfully. The ones that do are recycled anyway...:0)

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 06:08 PM

Dunno about that, guest...i've very rarely read a review i've agreed with.
I do the legwork by listening to music rather than reading about it...

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 06:12 PM

Don't knock it. If you are looking for 'original' it won't always be on a radio/tv station playlist.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 06:16 PM

Which is the point i was making in the first place...why isn't it one the tv and radio?

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 06:18 PM

"Is popular a benchmark of good?"

Define 'good'...

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 06:22 PM

Well, 'good' is subjective...but, the majority of people seem to be in agreement that mainstream music at the moment is not. Which would indicate that it's not particularly popular, either...

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 06:25 PM

Depends what radio station you are listening to? Try another. Explore.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 07:11 PM

Hm I sort of empathise with both camps.

First off, its not easy to write a hit. Try it sometime.

Secondly BI is right, its the all pervasive nature of the pop pap, that gets to you. And there simply aren't any stations that play the kind of stuff Mudcat readers wax lyrical about. When someone is entrusted to play such music for an hour a week, we end up with Great Tossers of Good taste of our Time plus what the record companies are giving away free last week - usually some bloody has been with plans to trundle out on the Cambridge main stage next year.

I have said before that somehow we must band together and do something like the Performance Channel for our music. the logistics of this I'm not sure of, but our day will come.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 07:25 PM

"First off, its not easy to write a hit. Try it sometime"

Just you wait!!! :0)

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 08:45 PM

There's always good music, if you look around and listen around. But just sometimes the gates open, and you don't have to look around for it, because it's there on main stage. And there's a changing of the guard in the music business, and it stays like that for a short while. And then it goes off, and the main stage is full of drab wannabees. It probably happens every 11 years or so, and coincides with sunspot cycles or something. Right now I suspect is a low point, but it'll come round in time.

Meanwhile, out in the folk world you never have to look all that hard to find good music. And when you're tired of looking, you make it yourself, and if it isn't that good all the time, it helps you recognise what is good. (And "good" in music means, I think, you want to hear it again; and you still want to hear it again years later.)

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 10:14 PM

pop music.. yeahh..!!!

and who'd ever have predicted

Chumbawamba

would have a worldwide popchart hit single..!!???

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 10:54 PM

Part of the reason, BI, is because some do not have the money, connections, backing, knowledge, or wherewithall to promote themselves enough to get well-known. It doesn't always take any or all of those, but they can sure help.:-)

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: mg
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:09 PM

I don't want to be challenged by music. I especially do not like music that hurts. Like jazz hurts, except for a little bit of Dixieland. I have more than enough challenges in daily life -- got two indicator lights coming on in my car -- and I don't like them either. And I don't like challenges at work no matter what I have said at idiotic job interviews. I would love to spend the rest of my time floating down a gentle stream of life, and if that is the mainstream, great. I like music that goes oompa pa oompa pa over and over. mg

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:10 PM

Recently I've had occasion to hear-- (a lot)-- about the musical tastes of some very young music consumers. One 3-year old girl did not have much music in the house at all--just a bit of blues and jazz--played very infrequently---- until a CD called "Broadway Kids Sing Christmas Carols" and eventually another Broadway Kids CD came into the house-- (not mine)--, and struck her fancy.

By report, both are ghastly---I've never heard either--just heard about them.

She quickly became addicted to both (now it's Broadway Kids Christmas carols all year long, even though there are now many other choices). It's now reached the stage that 2 adults are not allowed to have a conversation when the 3-year old--now 5--wants to hear Broadway Kids on the car CD player.

Her little brother, starting at 13 weeks old, was exposed to a classical CD called Lullabies (including Clair de Lune, Brahms Lullaby, Satie Gymnopedies etc.), and a CD of Mozart Flute and Harp concerti. He's also heard (current) country---likes Brad Paisley. for instance--, and lots of folk sung to him, including parodies, and a CD of Woody Guthrie etc, by Frank the Banjo Man.

He likes it all--but never wants to hear Broadway Kids.

He also can concentrate better, at 2 1/2 has a bigger vocabulary than his sister at 3 1/2, has a good attention span, really wants to play the ukulele, and can entertain himself--(she still can't--needs constant diversion)


If I had to guess, I'd say she's headed for the MTV generation------but fortunately there's hope for him.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Cluin
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:11 PM

I have more than enough challenges in daily life -- got two indicator lights coming on in my car



DAMN YOU, MTV!

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:33 PM

Ron, my twin 6 yr old grandsons heard classical, mostly Mozart, from birth on...they branched out to all kinds of music..their current favourite is reggae, but they still want their classical when they go to bed. They've shown really great intelligence which I am sure has been enhanced by this upbringing.

My one year old grandson who has lived with us since he was born has been exposed to all kinds including a particular one of Mozart which he just loves, BUT he seems to wide open to all kinds, too. He is esp. fond of folk and trad. Whenever he hears me start up some music on the computer he comes running and begs to be lifted up to listen. We've always tapped out the rhythms for him and now he's learned how to clap. Doesn't quite have the coordination yet to keep up witht he rhythm, but he's got the idea. He, too, has shown signs of remarkable intelligence.

With all three children, there is NO way they would be allowed to dictate choice of music when adults are present, unless it had been put to a vote or something!

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Cluin
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:44 PM

Around here the kids dictate choice of music.... they dictate the HELL out of choice of music. It's all just easier that way.
Videos too. I'm getting real sick of Shrek and Finding Nemo. And if I ever meet the guy who does the voice for Winnie the Pooh, I'm gonna sucker punch him in the larynx.

What kind of robot kids do you have there, kat?   ;)

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:55 PM

Hi...

1.)I commend you Bliss, for being a teenager with some musical taste! Most don't have it. I hate MTV, and am not involed in any way with the drek it produces or puts in it's rotation.

2.)It is a formula that's been around since the 50's, only then it was original, AND it sounded better.

3.)What happened to Maryrrf's DJ has been happening a lot lately. Too many are turning a deaf ear to music that is not homogenized and pasturized... It's all milk.

4.)There's no passion or meaning other than "look at my fake tits" to BE had in Pop Music of today.

5.)When you post on a thread, please give something constructive, not just a "If they like it, they like it" Short-cut To Thinking reply.

6.)It IS easy to write a hit, especially if you do like most of these MTV-motivated songwriting teams (yes, teams, I'm talking about 6/7 people, Not 2 like in the old days) and write the same song over and over with (slightly) different lyrics.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 01:08 AM

Cluin...no robots:-) Just old-fashioned grandparents who believe in teaching children patience and respect! That, plus the rule in our family has always been the DRIVER of the car always chooses the music, no exceptions unless the driver says so!

At home, same thing, respect and not giving in to tantrums.:-)

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Cluin
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 03:37 AM

If you're watching MTV and expecting anything deeper than the next KitKat commercial, you're indulging in a futile pasttime.

Watch it if you like, but don't expect too much. I direct you to this post from another thread, but with a similar message.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Ron Davies
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 07:47 AM

Kat--

Your rules sound great to me--they'd be my rules too if these kids were mine--actually I have absolutely no influence whatsoever over them (except that I can smuggle good music into the house)

To be honest---your rule about the driver determining music in the car is also my rule------and I get major flak sometimes from passengers.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: GUEST,KB
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 08:29 AM

Spot on about the driver choosing!!! I had a 3hr lift a while back from a friend with an obnoxious teenager. Said teenager DEMANDED that we play its CDs. When driver said no, said teenager demanded that I put her CD on. I said no. Eventually driver gave in - and we had about 5 mins of the most APALLING bang-bang-disturbing-rhythm-and-shrieks music, at which point the driver snapped & took the CD out again. It was not just that she didn't like the music, it was just too distracting to drive with.

Mind you I have had some interesting reactions to my choice of driving music. I think I'll designate it a folkies-only van.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 01:10 PM

I think one of the major things that's missing is originality...Yeah yeah, i know the 'all music is the natural conclusion of the music that's gone before it' argument, but now and then someone adds something new and exciting to the mix... it must be happening, but it's not getting shown on tv or played on the radio. Why is this, when it's what the majority of people want?

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 01:11 PM

Thanks for all your responses, by the way... very interesting and informative. I'm not nearly so discombobulated as i was :0)

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Wesley S
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 01:32 PM

BI - In my opinion - at least from what I've observed - most people don't really like music that much. Your average person might buy one or two CD's per year. I'll bet we mudcatters screw up that national average big time. So whatever they hear in the background is fine with them. They don't have enough interest to go out and find anything interesting - it's a very low priority in their life. Sad but true. If the average person in America reads less than two books a year can their listening habits be far behind ? For that matter there isn't very much music programming on MTV anymore. A lot more shows like "Pimp My Ride" and reruns of award shows.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 01:35 PM

So, it's people who don't really like music that are screwing up music? That actually makes a lot of sense...and it's deeply unfair...

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Wesley S
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 04:19 PM

Yes it's unfair. Most music is a commodity. It's judged by how many untils it can sell - just like fast food.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Cluin
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 04:28 PM

Music is also EVERYWHERE!... Every store, mall, tv show/commercial, campground, vehicle, gumball machine, etc. It's almost impossible to get away from in urban areas. That leads to taking it for granted and a fairly blase and disposable attitude towards it. A little silence would be nice every now and then.

I was sitting around in a jam session with my Dad and uncle and a few others several years ago and they were reminiscing about the house parties my grandparents use to throw with musicians and fiddler coming over and everybody joined in with their own party pieces, singing along and getting real sociable. I regretted that all that had passed away before I had a chance to experience it firsthand (though I'd seen the home movies--no sound, unfortunately). My uncle pointed to the boombox sitting on the counter nearby. "Things like that killed it," he said.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Wesley S
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 04:35 PM

Someone said that they thought that homebuilders stopped building front porchs on houses about the same time that people started buying TV's. Hmmmm....

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Cluin
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 04:38 PM

That's true. We went from being a friendly social "front porch" society to a reserved, slightly paranoid "back deck" society.

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 07:49 PM

The videos on MTV certainly aren't reserved...i wear more clothes than that in the shower!!! :0)

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: mg
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 11:02 PM

they might have quit building them so kids without TVs wouldn't sneak on their porches and watch TV through the window. We used to do that. Finally my parents relented out of shame I guess. mg

Subject: RE: Insipid formulaic bullpoo music...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 03:20 AM

Your story about the car journey just reminded me....

Anybody remember William Bendix in the film The Blue Dahlia (he had a plate in his head - but he carried on like he had a whole fucking tea service) he had this great line, which he repeated several times before doing the murders, " AH cain't stand de monkey music! Ah cain't stand de monkey music!"

A Raymond Chandler story.

Has life anything fairer to show........