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BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program
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Subject: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Once Famous Date: 19 Dec 04 - 04:00 PM I apologize for the blue clicky problem I have. Please read at this URL http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=1218 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Amos Date: 19 Dec 04 - 04:09 PM Here's the clicky for whatever good it will do. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Piers Date: 19 Dec 04 - 04:09 PM Liberalism is pretty daft, but I prefer this analysis: here and here Yours for world socialism! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Amos Date: 19 Dec 04 - 04:13 PM Martin: Cute but shallow; your author would do well to take his own advice by getting his facts straight (to begin with) about what being "liberal" means. The fact is the nation was founded on liberal principles and they are what makes it unique among nations (or at least unusual). Her is indulging in the very sin of laziness for which he upbraids others. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Once Famous Date: 19 Dec 04 - 04:13 PM Piers, are you on welfare because you are unhirable, uneducated, mentally ill, a social misfit, an ex-con, or all of the above? BTW, thanks Amos. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Once Famous Date: 19 Dec 04 - 04:15 PM Poor defense Amos. There are a million other articles out there saying the same thing and why the defeat of Kerry is marking the real beginning of the mental disorder known as radical liberalism. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Cruiser Date: 19 Dec 04 - 04:17 PM About the only 12-step program I see to overcome liberalism it that 13th step off a very high cliff... Cruiser (somewhat tongue-in-cheek) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Peace Date: 19 Dec 04 - 04:23 PM Conservatives now singing "We Shall Overcome"? I am surprised. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Piers Date: 19 Dec 04 - 04:43 PM Martin, Actually none of the above. Piers xx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: CarolC Date: 19 Dec 04 - 04:46 PM Several months ago, I heard radio host Michael Savage refer to liberalism as a "mental disorder." As odd as this concept might seem, I think I actually agree with him. I've seen liberalism turn some of the most intelligent people I know into propaganda-spewing robots who care only about the message, not the inaccuracies behind the message. Emotion always trumps logic for them, regardless of the blatantly obvious. I think we could easily substitute the word "partisanship" for "liberal" and have a much more accurate description of the real situation. Like this: Several months ago, I heard (insert name of favorite talking head here) refer to partisanship as a "mental disorder." As odd as this concept might seem, I think I actually agree with him. I've seen partisanship turn some of the most intelligent people I know into propaganda-spewing robots who care only about the message, not the inaccuracies behind the message. Emotion always trumps logic for them, regardless of the blatantly obvious. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Amos Date: 19 Dec 04 - 04:48 PM Nothing to defend against, Martin -- smokey, foul-smelling clouds of generalized nabobism aren't lucid argument. Apparently neither your boyo nor you know what the word means. Instead you have decided that any kind of sloppiness or apathetic drivel or weak-eyed stupidity qualifies. Unfortunately no-one who thinks of themselves as liberal believes those definitions so you are just preaching to your own hateful choir. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: GUEST,Clint Keller Date: 19 Dec 04 - 04:54 PM Excellent, Carol. clint |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Amos Date: 19 Dec 04 - 05:33 PM I would like to hear from any of the anti-liberalism faction, exactly what practices or beliefs -- specifically -- they belief they are battling which they call "liberalism". Here are several definitions from a brief search on the web: a political orientation that favors progress and reform www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn an economic theory advocating free competition and a self-regulating market and the gold standard www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn A political philosophy "historically associated with the idea of freedom: the civil freedom of the individual: free political institutions; freedom of religion; free enterprise and free trade in economics." In its contemporary form, liberalism includes a belief in democratic capitalism, and in the duty of the state to alleviate social ills, and to protect civil liberties and individual and human rights. (Alan Bullock and Oliver Stallybrass (eds.), The Fontana Dictionary of Modern Thought (London 1977), 347). Political parties calling themselves "Liberal" do not always reflect "liberal" values. www.heritage.nf.ca/confederation/glossary.html A school of economics that relies primarily on a free market with the minimum of barriers to the flow of private trade and capital. Underdevelopment in the Third World, acording to this school, stems from certain domestic economic policies of the developing country which tend to accentuate market imperfections; reduce productivity of land, labor, and capital; and intensify social and political regidities. The adoption of market-oriented domestic policies is the optimal way to remedy these weaknesses. www.indiana.edu/~ipe/glossry.html refers to thinking from the Liberal school of thought that posits that an economic system based on the market and free trade operates under 'natural' laws and brings benefits to the population. The Liberal school of thought, however, has changed and evolved over the years in particular with respect to the role of the state in the economy, which may be confusing. Here are some categories that might help to clarify: www.trentu.ca/ids/glossary.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Amos Date: 19 Dec 04 - 05:34 PM And a few more: political philosophy whose basic tenet is that each individual should have the maximum freedom consistent with the freedom of others. highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/076742011x/student_view0/chapter11/glossary.html Liberalism is the political philosophy believing in intellectual freedom and progress, as well as economic equality. Based on the works of John Maynard Keynes. This "Modern Liberalism" grew out of Classical Liberalism; the political philosophy believing in economic and intellectual freedom. apella.ac-limoges.fr/lyc-perrier-tulle/europ/glossary/glossideo.htm A political philosophy that elevates individual freedom and autonomy as its key organizing value. businesslaw.nelson.com/glossary3.html A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: DOpfer Date: 19 Dec 04 - 05:36 PM I don't believe this country was founded on liberalism. Seems the concept was more "help your neighbor (or countrymen)" not "let the government help your neighbor with YOUR money." In fact direct income tax on individuals was unconstitutional until the 16th amendment, which was ratified in 1913. That's a few years after the founding of the U.S. Left alone to their own devices most decent people, and most people are decent, always looked out for each other after their own. The people working in government provide no better with people's money than the people would do for themselves and others if allowed to keep what they earned. The government should provide national defense, judiciary functions and infastructure, PERIOD. The well being of the people should be left to the people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Little Hawk Date: 19 Dec 04 - 05:38 PM We don't NEED a 12 step program to overcome liberalism! Talk about a non-issue. Bor-ing!!! No, what we REALLY need, and desperately, is a 12 step program to overcome wanking! See if you can find something on that, Martin. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: artbrooks Date: 19 Dec 04 - 05:39 PM Martin Gibson, do you seriously believe that anyone, let alone the mythical "liberal," as defined by the mythical "conservative," actually believes all of those things? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Little Hawk Date: 19 Dec 04 - 05:43 PM Actually, CarolC hit it right on the nose. It is rigid partisanship which is a mental disorder. That can be found in both "liberals" and "conservatives". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: BanjoRay Date: 19 Dec 04 - 05:43 PM He's right - to defeat liberalism you have to convince yourselves of the truth of twelve obvious pieces of rubbish. Nice one. Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 19 Dec 04 - 05:49 PM There you go again, Amos. Inserting clear thinking. This is an interesting non-issue. Most "liberals" are conservative on some issues and many conservatives are liberal on some issues. Oh, that the world was so black and white! On second thought, thank God it isn't. That's why they call them political cartoons. They have all the reality of one. People use labels to over-simplify life, and they are almost always used to judge others while justifying the person's own actions. Too often, they are confused with "truth." Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Little Hawk Date: 19 Dec 04 - 05:52 PM Matter of fact, all American schoolkids are schooled in the mental disorder of partisanship from an early age, as they are taught to be good little Democrats or Republicans, thus perpetuating the myth that there is actually a real CHOICE at the polls! The priniciple is fear. You instill people with fear of the "other party" and the rest takes care of itself. A public divided against itself is easily led and easily duped. The same big financial interests control BOTH parties, so they win and everybody else loses. This doesn't mean that the party machines don't try like hell to win elections...just like the different football teams try like hell to win the Superbowl...but it's the same stupid game, regardless of who wins, and the public foots the bill. Partisan politics = divide and conquer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: DOpfer Date: 19 Dec 04 - 05:55 PM From Amos (highlights are mine): Liberalism is the political philosophy believing in intellectual freedom and progress, as well as ECONOMIC EQUALITY. Based on the works of John Maynard Keynes. This "Modern Liberalism" grew out of Classical Liberalism; the political philosophy believing in ECONOMIC and intellectual FREEDOM. "Economic equality" AND "economic freedom"? WHICH is it? Everyone's equal or everyone's free to make as much as they want? You can't have it BOTH ways. Let's face it, no one is going to change their philosophy from reading this forum. I'm moving on. Come on Martin. You can't enlighten even the most liberal thinkers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Little Hawk Date: 19 Dec 04 - 06:09 PM Equality? What does that mean? Does it mean an equal start for everyone? (I'd be in favour of that.) Does it mean equal rights for everyone? (I'd be in favour of that.) Does it mean equal protection under the law for everyone? (I'd be in favour of that.) Does it mean equal opportunity for everyone? (in favour of that too) Does it mean equal PAY for everyone? (I am not specifically in favour of that...given the present structure of society.) It is your chosen interpretation of the term "economic equality" that is leading you to form possibly erroneous conclusions about what other people are in favour of, DOpfer. You are simply choosing to interpret it in a way that supports your argument. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: artbrooks Date: 19 Dec 04 - 06:11 PM Actually, LH, I was taught in school and by my parents to look at the issues, examine the facts, and vote my conscious. I think I'm much more typical of the educated US voter than the person who votes the "party line." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Peace Date: 19 Dec 04 - 06:16 PM Getting hung up on definitions doesn't really address who believes what. I believe people should receive free health care when they need it. Period. I believe people should be able to improve their lot in life by the work they do, and if they are for one reason or another unable to do or find employment, they should receive a helping hand from the rest of us. I believe that people have worth regardless of their 'station' in life; the job they do, the circumstances under which they live. I believe that women have as much intrinsic worth as men, and I also know that people should be judged based on what they do and the intent with which they do it. I believe that all people, regardless of their mental, physical or spiritual 'disabilities' deserve respect simply because they are human. I believe it is wrong to exploit people for money. I believe that people are more important than things. I believe that 'isms' have caused too many problems on this planet. I don't know what that makes me, and I am not really interested in how I am perceived because of what I wrote above. I don't figure any of it makes me one political thing or another. It's enough for me that it makes me feel good about being human. Bruce M |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 19 Dec 04 - 06:21 PM Dang, brucie! You can write my Bill Of Rights anytime you want to. And nothing you wrote so eloquently is inherently "Liberal" or "Conservative." Labels are the lazy man's way of justifying their own actions. Jerry (A liberal/conservative/progressive/Traditionalist) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Ebbie Date: 19 Dec 04 - 06:31 PM Good for you, brucie. Have you thought about moving across the border? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: pdq Date: 19 Dec 04 - 06:33 PM WHAT LIBERALS REALLY WANT: Free/Universal Health Care Ban all firearms Ban the Bible because it is "hate speech" Ban all private vehicles that get less than 40 MPG Make male+male homosexual marriages legal/normal Make female+female (lesbian) marriages legal/normal Make Social Security death benefits pass to homosexual partners (married or not) Nationalize the oil industry Nationalize the electricity industry Nationalize the transportation industry Nationalize the gas industry Nationalize the health care industry Nationalize the auto industry Nationalize the pharmaceutical industry Ban Private ownership of radio and television stations Make the US subject to decisions of the World Court Make the US subservient to the United Nations End the two party system and only have "Democrat" on ballot Unlimited immigration (6.2 Billion more people are OK) Give all new immigrants free social services, same as American citizens get Give all new immigrants full Social Security benefits End the GI Bill End Veteran's Hospital System End all special care for veterans Ban all rallies by white and other "non-minority" groups Support gays in the military so that Cpt. Jones and Cpt. Smith (both males) can kiss while reviewing the troops Ban all CB and Ham radios as possible weapons of right-wing extremists Ban the Boy Scouts and declare them a "Hate Group" Ban the practice of "loyalty oaths" at all levels of government Ban The Ten Commandments from any public display Ban Christmas from all public documents Remove all trace of religion from all government-owned buildings End pledge of allegiance from all schools, public and private Ban all private schools unless they follow exact curriculum of public schools End home schooling (this is a partial list...add more if you wish to...) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: GUEST Date: 19 Dec 04 - 06:38 PM Liberal...Oxford dictionary defines as..Directed to general broadening of mind,..generous, openhanded,..not rigorous or literal,..open minded, candid,undprejudiced..favourable to democratic reform and individual liberty. So the opponents of Liberality must be; directed to general narrowing of mind, ungenerous, closefisted, rigourous and literal,..close minded,disingenuous,prejudiced..not favouring democratic reform or individual liberty. simple really..if the cap fits... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Once Famous Date: 19 Dec 04 - 06:52 PM Glad you are enjoying this thread, Amos. I sure am. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Ebbie Date: 19 Dec 04 - 06:52 PM Good gracious, pdq! Do you want all that?? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Amos Date: 19 Dec 04 - 06:53 PM PDQ: That is the biggest load of hooey I have ever seen. Where did you learn to think? Oh..well, that explains it. Seriously, how can you sleep at night knowing that you subscribe to such idiocy? Your list is preposterous and full of things that would be totally bad news to almost any liberal who had more than a few brain cells. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: pdq Date: 19 Dec 04 - 06:55 PM Anus - I put out ideas and facts, you put out personal attacks. Yep, business as usual! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Little Hawk Date: 19 Dec 04 - 07:50 PM Oh boy! This is gonna be fun... Thanks, pdq. Ahem! WHAT LIBERALS REALLY WANT: Free/Universal Health Care - Yes! I do want that, most advanced societies pretty well HAVE that already, and I more or less have it already...in Canada. More or less. Could be improved upon some. Ban all firearms - No! I absolutely do not want that, and I oppose such an idea utterly. Dictatorships in the works are the people who ban firearms. Ban the Bible because it is "hate speech" - No! I read the Bible, find much good in it, and I oppose banning any book from any religion or philosophy. Ban all private vehicles that get less than 40 MPG - Huh? Don't be silly. Make male+male homosexual marriages legal/normal - How does one make "normal" what is not the norm, and clearly never will be? :-) I don't give a damn if homosexuals marry one another. That's their business. It doesn't hurt me. I think they should get the same chance to suffer that other people do! Make female+female (lesbian) marriages legal/normal - Ha! Same answer as the last one...though I find lesbians personally a bit more appealing than male homosexuals. :-) Make Social Security death benefits pass to homosexual partners (married or not) - As I am largely ignorant of what those death benefits might be, I am in no position to have an opinion about it, am I? And in any case, I don't care one way or the other. Nationalize the oil industry - I don't trust the oil companies. Neither do I trust the government. Accordingly, I have no strong opinion about that one way or the other. Nationalize the electricity industry - ditto Nationalize the transportation industry - ditto Nationalize the gas industry - ditto Nationalize the health care industry - I'd be in favour of doing that both ways...private AND governmental. Nationalize the auto industry - Nope. Nationalize the pharmaceutical industry - Nope. Ban Private ownership of radio and television stations - Nope. Just provide a few that ARE publicly owned, so people have an alternative to programming riddled with commercials. I say, you can have 85% privately owned, 15% publicly owned, and NO advertising on the public stations, and some imaginative programming where you can hear something BESIDES top 40. (Try CBC in Canada for that.) Make the US subject to decisions of the World Court - Damn right. Every country should be subject to international law. Make the US subservient to the United Nations - Nope. Just an equal player in a community of nations, under international law. End the two party system and only have "Democrat" on ballot - Ha! Ha! Ha! No...I would like to end the PARTY system, period. That means getting rid of the f**king Democrats as well as the Republicans. They both lie like a rug. Parties and thier big money backers are the main problems standing in the way of honest government. Unlimited immigration (6.2 Billion more people are OK) - Now you're really getting silly... Give all new immigrants free social services, same as American citizens get - I would give all people in the whole World free social services if I could, believe me. I can't, but I would. Give all new immigrants full Social Security benefits - With a sanely operating society worldwide, you would not HAVE an immigration problem in the first place. You think small, pdq, I think big. The whole World is my home, not just the country of my birth. End the GI Bill - I know nothing about that. No opinion. End Veteran's Hospital System - Same as above. End all special care for veterans - I would give special care to anyone who needs it, veterans included. Ban all rallies by white and other "non-minority" groups - I'm white. Why would I want to deprive myself of the fun of rallying? (I despise racism and prejudice on the part of certain vocal minority groups.) Support gays in the military so that Cpt. Jones and Cpt. Smith (both males) can kiss while reviewing the troops - I don't give a damn about that issue. I think it highly unimportant. Mind you, Roman soldiers used to kiss each other on the cheek, and it didn't stop them from conquering most of the known World. Do you really lie awake at night worrying about this kind of crap? Ban all CB and Ham radios as possible weapons of right-wing extremists - No. I like the idea of CB and Ham radios. I would encourage more of them. Lots more. Ban the Boy Scouts and declare them a "Hate Group" - If you looked at a list of the groups I want to ban, it would probably be the shortest list you ever saw. The Boy Scouts wouldn't be on it. I think the only people I would ban would be groups into human sacrifice, murder for hire, bank robbery, that sort of thing. :-) (stuff that's already totally illegal, and pretty well always has been, in other words!) Ban the practice of "loyalty oaths" at all levels of government - That depends on the content of said loyalty oath. I am suspicious of the concept, but it depends on the circumstances and the intent. Ban The Ten Commandments from any public display - No. Ban Christmas from all public documents - Absolutely No. Remove all trace of religion from all government-owned buildings - Definitely no. End pledge of allegiance from all schools, public and private - No, just make it voluntary, without bringing undue pressure on those students who don't want to say it. Ban all private schools unless they follow exact curriculum of public schools - Absolutely not. End home schooling - Absolutely not. (this is a partial list...add more if you wish to...) You are reeling around in a paranoid fantasy, pdq. The liberal boogeyman you imagine is largely a creation of your own mind. I, however, am not so much a liberal as I am a radical...if you must come up with a convenient (and probably misleading) label. Please, tell us more of what it is that you think "liberals" believe in... :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: pdq Date: 19 Dec 04 - 07:57 PM Little Hawk - Made ya work, didn't I! And you are quite correct about one thing: you are a 'radical' more than a 'liberal'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Peace Date: 19 Dec 04 - 07:59 PM He's a fan of William Shatner. That says it all, pdq. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Little Hawk Date: 19 Dec 04 - 08:00 PM In Canada a Liberal is a member of a well-known political party. In the USA he's a quiche-eating, atheist dumbass. :-) In the UK a Liberal is a member of a well-known political party. In the USA he's a marriage-destroying, gay-loving, limp-wristed traitor. :-) In France or Denmark or Norway or Holland or a liberal is someone with an open mind. In the USA he's a godless, dope-smoking, knee-jerk, writeoff. Makes you wonder why any decent liberal would want to stay in the USA, doesn't it? My advice is, move out of the Fourth Reich while you still can...or brace yourself and get ready for a really tough time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Little Hawk Date: 19 Dec 04 - 09:03 PM If it's any comfort, pdq, I AM aware that there are certain people who largely fit the extreme "liberal" stereotype you have presented above...a few here and there...and I regard them as major dumbasses who are incapable of original thinking. They are just as annoying as their arch-conservative counterparts. But any extreme stereotype is more a cartoon figure than a real person. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Amos Date: 19 Dec 04 - 09:41 PM There may be a few wildass liberal nuts out there who would byuy that whol;e shopping list. I object, however, to the notion that PDQ asserts he is listing facts when in fact these are bigoted assertions. PDQ, I am sorry to say this, but you are seriously mistaken ion both of your posts here. Your list of extremist perspectives does not describe any liberal I know, and you did not list facts. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: GUEST,Art Thieme Date: 19 Dec 04 - 09:43 PM We are what we are! Whatever that is at any given point in time determines that those who aren't that will be doomed to a life spent putting up with you who differ with us--and vise versa. You may be poweful for the moment. And power is defined (for me) as the extent to which you can inconvenience others. Eventually the tables could be turned. It can often be quite sad---but it's always a fascinating adventure. Art |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Paco Rabanne Date: 20 Dec 04 - 10:43 AM Bloody brilliant! Thanks for that link Amos, very funny but apposite! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Little Hawk Date: 20 Dec 04 - 10:48 AM "power is defined as the extent to which you can inconvenience others" LOL! That's true, Art. It can also be defined as the extent to which you can assist and empower others. Depends on how it's used and from whose perspective. For instance, Joan of Arc proved to have great powers of personality, faith, and decision. Those permitted her to massively inconvenience the English invaders of France (and their Burgundian allies) and tremendously assist the rest of the French people, to the point of saving the nation. As such, she is remembered as a heroine and a martyr (even by the present-day English). Evidently, power can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on one's perspective and one's intentions and purposes. France was very much in need of someone who could "inconvenience" the English at that juncture in history. We are in great need of leaders with the wisdom to exercise power for the benefit of all persons, not just for the benefit of themselves and a privileged few at the top. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: artbrooks Date: 20 Dec 04 - 10:56 AM pdq, I think I'd come close to agreeing with about three of the things on that list. Most of them are just plain silly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: akenaton Date: 20 Dec 04 - 11:41 AM I find the 12 points of roguery hilarious, and obviously one of Martins' famous wind-ups,but they do bring out some uncomfortable truths for the soft left. I have long believed that the "democratic" left philosophy parroted by so many Mudcatters and an absolute ooze of politicians,was politically correct, self deluding hypocisy. Their position of supposedly trying to bring about meaningful change within a Capitalist system,is at best laughable, and very probably an impediment to the achievment of real freedom and equality. The sad thing is, that these people dont really want change, they are quite happy in their own "neverland", spouting their "democratic" theories, and hoping for the EVOLUTION that will never come. Whereas Martin and his followers KNOW they are right. Nomatter how outrageous their opinions seem to you and I, to the right these opinions are not up for debate and they will defend them "tooth and claw". They see straight ahead to a shining light and will not be diverted by what they see as "liberal values". If only we on the left had the same self-belief, we might be able to set the world on a better kinder path, but as Little Hawk says, we are so unsure and frightened,that we allow ourselves to be bullied into accepting a false freedom and a psuedo democracy. If we were honest, we would agree that the soft left are only conservatives in disguise,and as Martin says "unworthy of respect". Whenever anyone writes on this forum to point out the contradictions in the position of the "democratic" left, they are kicked around like a football by the psuedo-intellectuals, proving that they are more afraid of the real left than they are of the conservatives. I would conclude that Martin is probably right ,and that "liberalism" will not be too hard to exterminate....Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Grab Date: 20 Dec 04 - 12:52 PM Nice troll, Martin. I feel obliged to affix you to the wall with your own nails though... Step 1: Admitting that you're a liberal Yep. Per our friendly Guest above, "Directed to general broadening of mind,..generous, openhanded,..not rigorous or literal,..open minded, candid, unprejudiced..favourable to democratic reform and individual liberty." Proud to be so. Are you proud to say that you don't fit any of those categories? And incidentally, in the last three UK elections I've voted Liberal Democrat. Step 2: Pledge to support your beliefs with facts Yep, always do. I don't need to blindly believe that WMDs really were out there, or that Saddam really had links to Al-Qaeda, or that the Department of Homeland Security (and the corresponding UK Home Office section) are really making our lives safer, or that imprisonment without trial or even telling prisoners what they're imprisoned for in the UK and US (and certainly not presenting that to the public) is for everyone's good. If we can't believe that the government is efficient, can we trust them to behave morally without people being able to speak up in opposition to them? After all, if you couldn't trust JFK, Nixon or Clinton to behave morally, where's your guarantee from Mr. "Now Watch This Drive" and his appointed officials? Step 3: Love America Certainly do. It's a great country (even though I don't live there myself) and the bravery of its founding fathers is an inspiration to us all. However its recent leaders have been less inspiring. Think McCarthy and J Edgar Hoover's witch-hunts, JFK and Clinton using their presidential status to get laid, Nixon, and the various undignified involvements in Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, Cambodia, Grenada, Somalia and Iraq. Please don't think I'm singling out the US government for particular attention - I know the UK government's record in Aden, Indonesia and Northern Ireland (to name just three) isn't anything to be proud of. My point is that you can love a country and still be clear that the actions of that country's present government are unjustified and/or immoral. I mean, as a Republican you're totally prepared to call Bill Clinton a "a lying-cheating-sexist-racist-rapist jackass", even though he was your president. Why are we not allowed to make similar criticisms of politicians and their actions when they're in power? Step 4: Take a college level economics class Sorry, I can't make this one. I looked at the careers path for economics and it was basically empty. That sounds like some kind of economic truth to me - if there's no future in spending 3 years and a bunch of your own money studying something, you're better spending the time and money somewhere else... Step 5: Say "no" to Communism and Socialism I'm with you on the former. However Europe has a long history of "Social Democrat" and "Christian Socialist" parties, who represent centre-left AND centre-right positions. There's a big spectrum of opinions in the socialism arena - if you doubt that, remember that the UK is being run by a socialist government right now, and very few would say they have much to do with Communism! Step 6: Corporations are not evil So far so good. However that doesn't make them benevolent either. In law, a corporation is its own entity, like a person. An individual can be held responsible for their actions, but it's less easy to be clear about a person taking some illegal or immoral action for the good of their corporation. For that reason, there are rules on what corporations can and can't do. Step 7: The government is inefficient Yep. So is any large company though. The private sector will *not* necessarily put your money to better use. The UK government has contracted out many IT projects to the private sector over the last 20 years, and I cannot remember a single one that came in on time and on budget, due to the failings of those private-sector companies. Also bear in mind that the private sector is required to make a profit for private owners, where the public sector is required to work for the public users. So to take an example, a centre to look after aging diabetics will make a large profit by looking after a few rich people, but a centre to provide basic healthcare (setting broken bones, immunisation, etc) in an inner-city area is unlikely to turn up much income, even though it is helping many more people. By the way, I'm interested in the way it's axiomatic that "government is inefficient", and yet other actions such as military action are beyond criticism. Where's your threshold for allowing constructive feedback on government actions? Step 8: The earth is not your "mother," and she's not dying "Face the reality that the earth, society, and our environment are better off today than ever in recorded history and that they are continuing to improve." Well, some places certainly are. Other places certainly aren't. Much of Scandanavia has suffered from acid rain, to the extent that nothing can live there. The Exxon Valdez didn't do much good to the Alaskan coastline either. And whilst the world currently may be in a good state, someone has to keep an eye on what's going on. Corporations aren't going to, because they maximise their income by clear-cutting the forests. Maybe in 100 years there won't be any forests to clear-cut, but this doesn't bother a corporation when tomorrow's share price is the prime concern. For a good example, look at Canada's Grand Banks which are now fish-free and may never recover after massive over-fishing - even when it was clear that over-fishing was destroying the fish stocks, it carried on until there was nothing left to catch. This is one part of economics maybe you missed? Step 9: Stop smoking the wacky tobaccy Doesn't do anything for me. I'd get your president to lay off the Jack Daniels though. Step 10: Eat a hamburger Yep. Not from McDonalds though, since their own literature makes it clear that they're 50% water. Step 11: Stop re-writing political history OK - in spite of any disagreements in there, those events are gone. Please can we also be clear though that there were *no* WMDs in Iraq, and that war-crimes were committed in Vietnam and Cambodia, and that there is no reason to maintain sanctions against Cuba? The current US government is not prepared to own up to any of these. (As an interesting aside, the governments opposing the creation of a independent UN war crimes court look like a list of the world's rogue states...and the US. Why? Because if this was ever set up, Henry Kissinger would be liable for war crimes committed by US forces in Vietnam and Cambodia. But Kissinger is now an "elder statesman" and a respected US envoy. How's that for re-writing political history?) Step 12: Be a missionary Oh, I am, I am. I'm spreading the righteous word, man, and the word is "LIBERAL"... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: pdq Date: 20 Dec 04 - 12:55 PM artbrooks - Wouldn't it be better to argue with or defend those three points rather than say "most of them are just plain silly"? We just went through a four year election cycle where the liberals put few (if any) issues on the table for consideration. They said "I hate Bush" or "anybody but Bush". Maybe liberals don't really know what they want. Forcing them to discuss issues will result in changes that benefit all sides. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: artbrooks Date: 20 Dec 04 - 01:01 PM It is more that a little difficult to argue/defend a proposition that nobody espouses, which is where nearly all of your alleged "Liberal Ideas" fall. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: GUEST,kendall Date: 20 Dec 04 - 01:05 PM What a load of twaddle! I am a liberal, and none of those things fit me. I once spoke without careful consideration, a generalization, and my wife said "Sure, and all Indians walk single file too." I said "what kind of silly statement isthat"? and she said "Well, I saw an Indian once, and he was walking single file." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: M.Ted Date: 20 Dec 04 - 02:13 PM "I apologize for the blue clicky problem I have." Your apology accepted, Martin--after all, it is Christmas- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Piers Date: 20 Dec 04 - 02:14 PM Grab, 'the UK is being run by a socialist government right now' - if you define socialism as consistently acting at the behest of the capitalist, free market ideology (except where British Industry needs protection) and generally acting like the previous conservative government then you are right. But I really wish people wouldn't try to redefine 'socialism' and 'communism' - the founders of the movement used the terms interchangebly for a society of common ownership (not state), democratic control of the economy and access to goods and services on the basis of need, rather than ability to pay. It was Lenin that defined socialism and communism as different, and then as state ownership and control of the economy - doing a great diservice to the socialist cause in the process. The problem with liberalism, and I talk in very general terms here, is that it is essentially an emotional response which sees freedom as the absence of direct physical constraint (freedom from something). This ignores poverty, unemployment, wage/salary labour and alienation as the hugely oppresive constraints that they are. Under capitalism (mainly private or mainly state), the working class are unfree. Individual workers may have some 'freedom' of action (to change jobs, for example), as a member of the working class you are coerced into selling your labour, or taking on any of the roles involved in the reproduction of labour power, such as schoolchild, housewife or pensioner. Because the capitalist class own the means of life, workers cannot escape from their class position in society: they are wage slaves. For socialists, freedom is self-determination. On the new basis of common ownership, democratic control and production solely for self-determined needs, socialism will be a society in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all. Liberals would rather tweak the capitalist system here and there, but seem unable to recognise the social relations that give rise to the majority of blights on people in society. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: kendall Date: 20 Dec 04 - 03:22 PM Fact is, some socialism is necessary. Who could afford his own roads, schools, airports,army, police and firemen? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: GUEST, Mikefule Date: 20 Dec 04 - 03:31 PM As a true liberal, I believe the writer has the right to his opinions and to express them. However, it is disappointing that the writer has no clear idea what liberalism is. It reminds me of political slogans along the lines of "Freedom, integrity, prosperity!" So, let's find the party campaigning for "Opression, dishonesty and poverty!" Now look at this guy campaigning against liberalism... so does that mean he woul be claiming to campaign for illiberalism? ;0) Liberalism is about genuinely respecting the other person's right to his opinion, and recognising that, whether you agree with them or not, they may have a valid point to make, or at least a resaon for holding that opinion. That's not the same as saying that all opinions are equally valid, or that there is never a time to say "No". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Once Famous Date: 20 Dec 04 - 03:56 PM Grab, as a typical whiner, you just have to have an answer for everything. Your answers were stupid and desparate. Grab THIS. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Little Hawk Date: 20 Dec 04 - 04:04 PM OWW!~ Fer Chrissakes, buddy, I am NOT Martin Gibson! Get a pair of glasses or somethin'... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: CarolC Date: 20 Dec 04 - 04:09 PM I find it deliciously ironic that the author of the... thing... (article? screed? e-mail spam?) in the link in the opening post to this thread, who presumably considers himself a "conservative", or at least a "moderate", beleives that the government should dictate our food choices to us (Step 10: Eat a hamburger). I thought that sort of thing was the purview of the liberal "nanny state". LOL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Once Famous Date: 20 Dec 04 - 04:14 PM So what's your favorite hamburger? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Little Hawk Date: 20 Dec 04 - 04:14 PM When the New World Order finally establishes true "freedom", Carol, every citizen will be required to eat at McDonald's at least once a week, and there will be a McDonald's chain of outlets in every country in the World...even the few lucky places, like Cuba, that don't have any yet! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Once Famous Date: 20 Dec 04 - 04:20 PM Plenty of other good places besides fast food hamburgers out there. Or are you a card carrying member of PETA on top of everything else mentioned in the 12 step program? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Little Hawk Date: 20 Dec 04 - 04:23 PM What is PETA? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: CarolC Date: 20 Dec 04 - 04:58 PM I'm not a member of PETA, and I don't have a problem with other people eating meat, but I don't happen to enjoy the taste of meat. So I don't eat it. Any government that tells me I have to whether I enjoy it or not, is certainly not what one could call a "conservative" government. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Once Famous Date: 20 Dec 04 - 05:04 PM What government is telling you that you have to eat meat? "Beef." "It's what's for dinner." is only a commercial. However, you should consider a Chicago style hot dog if your ever in the area. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: CarolC Date: 20 Dec 04 - 05:14 PM What government is telling you that you have to eat meat? That would be Jeremy Robb's fantasy government. And you can have my share of the |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Ooh-Aah2 Date: 20 Dec 04 - 05:18 PM I had gathered that Gibson was a right-wing jerk from various other threads, but to agree with this list even jokingly... man...I can't imagine being so stupid. It seems typical of the lame, gum-chewing smart-arse wisecracking that American conservatives substitute for thought... Grab and Little Hawk have nailed this dickhead so thoroughly that I'll content myself with standing back to applaud them. Except that no-one has sufficiently attacked the ludicrous statement that the world is in better environmental state than anytime in recorded history. What kind of deluded wanker could think such bollocks is credible for a moment? No wonder these people have re-elected a President who doesn't know his arse from his elbow. America - the only country in history to pass from infancy to senility without ever achieving a period of maturity... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Once Famous Date: 20 Dec 04 - 05:19 PM Kosher hot dogs are not that. and like he said, Hitler was a vegetarian. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: CarolC Date: 20 Dec 04 - 05:44 PM and like he said, Hitler was a vegetarian. Hitler was also a man. So how's the sex change operation coming along then? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Once Famous Date: 20 Dec 04 - 05:50 PM Typical answer coming from a feminist man-hater who suffers from penis envy. You are hereby banished to squat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: CarolC Date: 20 Dec 04 - 05:56 PM Martin, you need to fire the guy who writes your material. He's getting predictable. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Once Famous Date: 20 Dec 04 - 06:01 PM He is well paid and hardly tapped. On the other hand, I wouldn't be paying too much to the person who wrote your comeback. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Amos Date: 20 Dec 04 - 06:26 PM (Obviously to overcome liberalism one should study and practice the vocabulary of hateful invective, preferably using Martin as a tutor, as only a Graduate Abusive Personality can truly qualify to have outgrown liberalism.) A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: CarolC Date: 20 Dec 04 - 06:28 PM She pays me to let her write my stuff. Maybe I should get her to pay me more. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Peace Date: 20 Dec 04 - 11:20 PM My favourite hamburger comes from a place in Montreal run by the D'Ilallo family. Went there first when I was playing football--was about 13. Best darned burger a guy could ask for. The family has been in business since 1929. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Little Hawk Date: 21 Dec 04 - 12:16 AM Awww, fer Chrissakes...LOLOLOL...I love this forum! Every day I get my laugh therapy here. And laughter is very good for physical and psychological health, even spiritual health as a matter of fact. First of all, Ooh-Ahh, you may be a man I have fought with over spiritual matters more times than I can count, but...thanks for that marvelous post! "America - the only country in history to pass from infancy to senility without ever achieving a period of maturity..." Yowsa! I wish I'd said that! I am gonna save it for good occasions, maybe get a bumper sticker made... ha! ha! ha! And as usual I enjoy the fine repartee between Martin and Carol and Amos and so on... I never get mad at people I disagree with about politics anymore. Specially not Martin. Politics is the great divider, and I laugh at it accordingly and refuse to allow it to make me hate people....although I know it has some very serious consequences on people's lives. I cannot imagine CarolC suffering from penis envy, Martin! Inconceivable. She has no reason to envy anyone, as far as I'm concerned. CarolC is one great gal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: CarolC Date: 21 Dec 04 - 12:23 AM Thanks, LH. Yer quite a fine gentleman yourself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: GUEST Date: 21 Dec 04 - 12:47 AM LH asks What is PETA? It's the way English folks pronounce a certain man's name. You are going to have to rob PETA to pay PAUL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Ooh-Aah2 Date: 21 Dec 04 - 04:33 AM Nice to be on the same side Little Hawk, - I had better disclaim any authorship of the nifty 'infancy...maturity' quote though - as far as I know the WW1 French Prime Minister (or was it President?) Georges Clemenceau was the one who first said that. Excellent - a Frenchman dead on the money. That should piss off the (stupid) Americans even more. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Grab Date: 21 Dec 04 - 05:28 AM Grab, as a typical whiner, you just have to have an answer for everything. I'm afraid so. There's this thing we liberals have called "debate" where we present our beliefs, back them with facts (see point 2), and use facts to refute the other person's argument. I'm very sorry that I threw your list back at you with interest and you were unable to come up with an adequate response - I hadn't realised that your beliefs were so threadbare and indefensible that even you couldn't justify them. I should have followed Mark Twain's advice: "Never have a battle of wits with an unarmed man." Piers, I should have used the word "technically" when calling the British government "socialist". Point was that you can be centre-right politically and still have the word "socialist" on your party literature. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: freda underhill Date: 21 Dec 04 - 08:46 AM The 12 Suggested Steps of Neocons Anonymous 1. We admitted we were powerless over the globe--that Iraq had become unmanageable. 2. Came to believe that a process more honest than ourselves could restore us to democracy. 3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of the Law as it limits and contains us. 4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. 5. Admitted to the press, to the people of Iraq and to the people of the world the exact nature of our wrongs. 6. Were entirely ready to have the voters remove all the defectives in our government. 7. Humbly asked the Treasury to remove our payroll. 8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, (several volumes in length) and became willing to make amends to them all. 9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. 10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it. 11. Sought through reading, listening and asking to improve our conscious contact with reality, as we try to comprehend it, praying only for knowledge of the people's will for us and the democracy to carry that out. 12. Having had a moral awakening as the result of these steps, we try to carry this message to neocons, to help them heal and to practice new principles of justice and humility in all our affairs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Once Famous Date: 21 Dec 04 - 12:51 PM First of all, I am not a right winger as I have claimed all along. I am an independent moderate but find the extreme left wing is usually a bunch of whiners who can't fit into society, and want to tear down American society and our way of life. The biggest American critics here it seems are mostly non-Americans who actually have little or no impact with their views. but they sure like to use our products and will come running to us for protection. Grab, please grab a toothbrush or go see a dentist. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Amos Date: 21 Dec 04 - 07:47 PM Nothing moderate about ya, Martin!! Our way of life never used to include gratuitous invasions! At least not very often. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Once Famous Date: 22 Dec 04 - 10:43 AM Amos, I was one of your type once. I grew up. Gave up dope, too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp Date: 22 Dec 04 - 11:12 AM Yeah, but you ain't given up hotdogs yet, Martin. Any weak sister can smoke dope...but it takes a man with real guts to scarf down a hotdog every couple'a days. I got a pal who used to work in the slaughterhouses, and, believe me, after what he seen there he won't even go near 'em anymore! Hotdogs, I mean. I'm the kind who figures what I don't know won't hurt me, but every now and then that theory don't hold up so good. Know what I'm sayin'? - Chongo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Once Famous Date: 22 Dec 04 - 11:20 AM Chongo, you're not going to the Kosher slaughterhouse. what you are describing is the gdempte goyishe slaughterhouses. But they won't let your hariy body in unless you completely wrap it in saran wrap. Kosher is quality, you know. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: GUEST, Mikefule Date: 22 Dec 04 - 12:59 PM Unless I missed it, it seems no one answered the valid question: "What is PETA?" PETA is a pressure group/charity, "People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals" that campaigns on a number of animal welfare issues. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: GUEST,Larry K Date: 22 Dec 04 - 03:10 PM 12 Step program to becoming an insignificant fringe group. 1. Admit you are a liberal. The last politician to do it was George McGovern and he lost 49 states. 2. Continue to criticize the administration but offer no actual plan on what you would do differently. (hint- go to my website is not an actual plan) 3. Make Howard Dean the head of your party. 4. Publicize Michael Moore, Barbra Streisand, Al Franken, and Susan Sarandon. Make sure Moore gets a seat of honor at the convention. 5. Pay Al Sharpton (and no other candidtate)to prmote the democratic party. Give him a prime speech at the convention. 6. Continue to recount votes in Ohio (note- the electoral college has already voted in Bush and Chaney) 7. while you on it, continue to fight the Florida 2000 election- make sure to say Bush was selected- not elected. (note- we didn't need a recount in Florida this year did we) 8. Continue to tell the public that the economy is the worst ever. Keep pushing pessimism. When the third quarter number come out and say we grew the GNP at 3.9% (above expectations) tell people how they are really lousy jobs. 9. Continue to have people move from the northeast to the South and Southwest. By 2010 Florida will surpass NY in electoral votes and NC will surpass NJ. That means, blue states get smaller, and red states get bigger. 9 of the 10 fastest growing states are Red. The only fast growing blue state is Delaware- whoppdy doo. 10. Ignore moderates like Liebeman, Evan Bayh, and Bill Richardson. Make sure they don't get any prime time appearances at conventions. 11. Continue the fight whether to move to the left or the center. Have the Howard Dean/Move on.org/Michael Moore faction fight with the Bill and Hillory faction and fight with the Kerry/Kennedy faction. Have one faction split off and form their own party. 12. Finally.....nominate Hillary Clinton for president in 2008. Follow these simple steps and the democratic party can soon be the next green party, or progressive party, or independant party, or earth party, or slumber party. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Once Famous Date: 22 Dec 04 - 03:14 PM Thank you LarryK! Great reading! Mazel Tov! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Dec 04 - 04:18 PM And.....continue blocking the sale and manufacture of Hillary Clinton blow-up dolls!!!!!! The most friggin' important point of them all, eh guys? I've been unable to obtain one for love or money. Even on Ebay. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: CarolC Date: 22 Dec 04 - 04:21 PM What kind of explosives do people use to blow them up? Maybe they consider it a safety hazard. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Once Famous Date: 22 Dec 04 - 04:24 PM I would think that Hilary dolls come with male genitalia. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Peace Date: 22 Dec 04 - 04:30 PM PETA is a kinda bread. It's like two thin pancakes joined around the edges. It forms a hollow pocket inside that ya can stuff with what turns your crank--NOT THAT! Anyway, that's what I gotta say. (I know no one will be gauche enough to correct my spelling.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Once Famous Date: 22 Dec 04 - 04:32 PM Yeah, brucie. I like a gyros on PETA bread. Do you say "ji-ro"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: pdq Date: 22 Dec 04 - 05:08 PM Pita bread is used by people from the Middle East. They stuff it with things like bits of French-fried goat and garbanzo beans. It's called an 'awful'. In some places you can get a half an 'awful'. Most places will only sell you a 'full awful'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Once Famous Date: 23 Dec 04 - 10:16 AM I thought pita bread was more of a Greek thing? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Dec 04 - 12:49 PM Pita bread is a great idea. So are tacos and enchiladas. It is well known that liberals go for stuff like that, which is another good reason to be liberal! Conservatives go for ribs, steak, and baked potatoes, and so do a lot of liberals, but they don't insist upon it even at breakfast. Conservatives run screaming from restaurants that serve exotic food with strange names that they haven't heard of before. They say helplessly..."But...don't you have any burgers here?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Once Famous Date: 23 Dec 04 - 12:59 PM That's stereotyping Little Hawk. It's even bigoted and intolerant. Many conservatives I'm sure enjoy kung pao chicken. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Dec 04 - 01:08 PM What! You accuse me of stereotyping???? Next you'll be accusing me of Shatner-worship!!! Heh! Yes, I can be pretty unscrupulous sometimes when it comes to baiting conservatives... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Once Famous Date: 23 Dec 04 - 01:39 PM conservative trout like worms as bait. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Leadfingers Date: 23 Dec 04 - 02:03 PM The ONLY problem ANY WHERE is Extremism and Extreme Liberalism is NO better than any other extreme . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Leadfingers Date: 23 Dec 04 - 02:04 PM And a Few Fewer extremists in here would not come amiss either , |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Leadfingers Date: 23 Dec 04 - 02:05 PM So WHY spend so much time slagging each other off ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Leadfingers Date: 23 Dec 04 - 02:06 PM When you could be playing the 1oo post game with the Non Extremists !! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: MMario Date: 23 Dec 04 - 02:21 PM I keep reading the title of this thread as "Overcoming Librarians" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: GUEST,Agatha the Librarian Date: 23 Dec 04 - 02:24 PM NO ONE can overcome librarians! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Once Famous Date: 23 Dec 04 - 02:33 PM Actually my wife is a librarian and she is really the only one who can tell me "ssshhhhhh!!" and get away with it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: MMario Date: 23 Dec 04 - 02:33 PM of course not - they harness the power of L=space! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: pdq Date: 23 Dec 04 - 07:41 PM Little Hawk is very good at baiting conservatives. In fact, he is a master baiter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Peace Date: 23 Dec 04 - 08:00 PM So WHY spend so much time slagging each other off ? Whew. For a second I thought there was an aiche in there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Dec 04 - 08:07 PM Ha! Good one, there, pdq. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: pdq Date: 23 Dec 04 - 08:21 PM Good sport, Little Hawk. I owe you the first beer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: Once Famous Date: 21 Apr 05 - 11:19 PM I just felt like resurrecting this again, if anyone wants to review the 12 step program again. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Conservatism From: Peace Date: 22 Apr 05 - 12:39 AM Do the 12 step program backwards. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: LadyJean Date: 22 Apr 05 - 10:46 PM Mr. Gibson, do you ever tilt your head sideways? Or are you afraid your narrow mind would fall out of your ear if you did so? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Overcoming Liberalism. A 12 step Program From: robomatic Date: 23 Apr 05 - 03:20 AM From quotationspage.com: America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde Irish dramatist, novelist, & poet (1854 - 1900) |
