Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again

Subject: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: GUEST,Metchosin
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 10:31 AM

This ain't right

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: GUEST,Rapaire
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 11:22 AM

If it is what I think it is, it ain't right.

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: RichM
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 11:52 AM

This slight is no slur on Stan Rogers' music, but it is a slur on the Canadian Music Hall of Fame's credentials.

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Metchosin
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 12:01 PM

Agreed there, RichM.

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 12:04 PM

That's what I thought it was -- I couldn't connect to the link for some reason.

Damn, don't them folks know?

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Crystal
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 12:06 PM

Interestingly enough I just read the abbreviation on the page as CRAPS! The dyslexia maybe has it right!

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Leadfingers
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 12:06 PM

Who outside of Canada has even heard of Tragically Hip ?? And how many people outside Canada are still performing Stan Rogers' songs ?
Is it a reasonable assumption that more people outside Canada are still singing Stans songs than there are IN Canada singing tragically Hip Material ?

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 12:16 PM

Me. I'm outside Canada, and I'm still doing Stan's songs. Who (or what) the feck is/are/was 'Tragically Hip'?
S:0)

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: RichM
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 12:25 PM

Nothing against the Tragically Hip... but why do I see in my mind a picture of several gimpy guys walking painfully on stage?

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: GUEST,Obie
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 12:56 PM

As they would say in Newfoundland " Don't get your drawers in a knot bye!"
I don't think that CARAS carries any prestige anyway, so their hall of fame ain't worth shit!
Stan had no use for recording industry crap while he was alive, and was known to make his feelings clear. I am not sure that he would have been thrilled to be an inductee.
                  Obie

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 01:04 PM

Maybe we should get him inducted into something in the States....

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 01:23 PM

Somebody's paying attention: he'll be given a Lifetime Achievement Award by Folk Alliance at its national conference in Montreal in February.

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 01:32 PM

I didn't know there was a Canadian Hall of Fame. It must be a very peculiar construction if it doesn't include Stan Rogers. Maybe the idea is that it's for people whom the organisers think ought to be famous, but aren't, and Stan doesn't qualify because he is pretty widely known round the world. Unlike "Tragically Hip", whoever or whatever that may be.

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Teresa
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 01:42 PM

Were Kate and Anna McGarrigle ever in the canadian Hall of Fame? Or String band?

Just curious.

I'm content to spread the word about these folks to anyone who might be interested. I'm sort of resigned to the idea that many exceptional performers and good folk won't be inducted into these arbitrary Halls of Popularity. :>

Teresa

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Peace
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 01:46 PM

It's bullshit. But then, so are "Halls of Fame" IMO. Stan is in OUR Hall of Fame. Anyone here forgot him? No. That speaks volumes more than JUNOS and trinkets, IMO.

Bruce Murdoch

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Leadfingers
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 02:49 PM

The only good thing about 'halls of fame' is that people look at the names in the lists and SOMETIMES investigate the music of some of the names !

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: breezy
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 03:01 PM

He is above the Hall of Fame thing.

After all it were his tracks that they were playing at the Epcot Oh Canada show when I went to Disney - twice, and that was bout 10 and 5 years back.

Is Garnet ever mentioned?

So Dan Mckinnon has some way to go then?

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: GUEST,Obie
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 03:30 PM

This is the inductee list:
Year         Recipients
1978         Guy Lombardo (posthumously)
Oscar Peterson
1979         Hank Snow
1980         Paul Anka
1981         Joni Mitchell
1982         Neil Young
1983         Glenn Gould
1984         The Crewcuts
The Diamonds
The Four Lads
1985         Wilf Carter
1986         Gordon Lightfoot
1987         The Guess Who
1989         The Band
1990         Maureen Forrester
1991         Leonard Cohen
1992         Ian & Sylvia
1993         Anne Murray
1994         Rush
1995         Buffy Sainte-Marie
1996         David Clayton-Thomas
Denny Doherty
John Kay
Domenic Troiano
Zal Yanovsky
1997         Lenny Breau
Gil Evans
Maynard Ferguson
Moe Koffman
Rob McConnell
1998         David Foster
1999         Luc Plamondon
2000         Bruce Fairbairn (posthumously) * deceased
2001         Bruce Cockburn
2002         Daniel Lanois
2003         Tom Cochrane
2004         Bob Ezrin

The recording industry was of no help to Stan because he refused to kiss their collective arses. The same could be said of Stompin' Tom.
They both published and recorded their own work so they were considered outcasts.

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 03:36 PM

I once managed to ignore Stan Rogers for almost five years...

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Peace
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 03:45 PM

Bryan Adams? A great rock and roller--a great performer--a great writer. He is a kick-ass singer (have a listen to "Summer of '69" sometime. IT ROCKS. See his name there?

The people on the list deserve to be there, but, there are deserving people who should be there and aren't.

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 03:50 PM

Yeah. Like Stark Naked (of The Fleshtones, circa 1980)...

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Big Mick
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 04:13 PM

Unfecking believable!! Who are these cretains? If you had told me this without the cite, I would have said you have to be off your rocker. Stan may very well be Canada's greatest singer songwriter, certainly in the top 5. There is a festival named for him, a musical written around his songs, and he has spawned more singers than one can imagine. He still touches my music in very real ways.

I love Canada, but I think that these folks must be nuts. As was said earlier, this is more of a reflection on this institution than it is on Stan.

Mick

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Marion
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 04:35 PM

To be fair, I think it's worth considering that we folkies are a small "niche market". Pop/rock has a much bigger audience.

Just because you personally like Stan Rogers better than the Tragically Hip - or because you've heard of him but not them - that doesn't mean that Stan Rogers is a better or more important artist than the Hip. All it means is that your tastes are out of step with the predominant culture. Nothing wrong with that. But there's also nothing wrong with the people who prefer a good pop/rock band to a good folksinger.

Marion

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Teresa
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 04:49 PM

How come william shatner wasn't on that list?

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Peace
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 04:58 PM

Big Mick: With you 100%.

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Peace
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 05:01 PM

Marion,

Bryan Adams wasn't a 'niche' performer. He's not there either.

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Peace
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 05:02 PM

Course, what about BTO? The Stampeders?

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Peace
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 05:08 PM

Rita MacNeil.

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: GUEST,Joe_F
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 05:14 PM

Says Brucie: "It's bullshit. But then, so are "Halls of Fame" IMO. Stan is in OUR Hall of Fame."

Hear, hear! In fact, I'll go one worse: What really counts is that he's in MY Hall of Fame.

--- Joe Fineman    [e-mail]

||: Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do. :||

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 05:35 PM

"Who outside of Canada has even heard of Tragically Hip ??"
Tons of people

"And how many people outside Canada are still performing Stan Rogers' songs ?"
Tons of different people

"Is it a reasonable assumption that more people outside Canada are still singing Stans songs than there are IN Canada singing tragically Hip Material ?"
Not reasonable at all... Not even very likely, in the grand scheme of things...

" Stan had no use for recording industry crap while he was alive"
Ahh... but that's the song sung by EVERYONE who was ever 'snubbed' by 'The Recording Industry'... I think it's better to say that neither had any use for each other... And it's less inflammatory

" I think it's worth considering that we folkies are a small "niche market". Pop/rock has a much bigger audience"
Abso-frigg'n-lootly... And "Halls Of Fame" are more about Popular Culture than 'Counter Culture' like folk music is... So that they don't include us is no more "Unfecking believable" than the fact that so many of us outright dismiss them and everything that they do... I mean come on folkies... which is it... Do you have contempt for The Music Industry, or is it that you're just ticked off that they have contempt for you? And how would your indignation suffer when they offered you a dump-truck full of cash to keep doing what you're doing???

I like Stans music... Prefer Garnets for the most part... never actively disliked The Hip... they're just not my cup of tea...   And I really couldn't care less who or what some committee decides should or shouldn't be in some Hall Of Supposed Fame...

It's all rather self-congratulatory if ay ask me anyway...

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 08:01 PM

You mean to tell me that Frazer and Dubolt didn't make it!

My, my, my.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 08:09 PM

Looking at that list the idea seems to have been to inform (or remind) people that some of the most famous American performers around were in fact Canadian, not from south of the border.

I suppose on that count Stan Rogers wouldn't really fit, because I doubt if there are many people who've heard of him who don't know he was Canadian.

But they also seem to have run out of people who are genuinely known round the world, which most of the ones they put in over the first decade or so were...

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: phil h
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 08:18 PM

Stan Rogers ignored? Not over here he aint! In the UK his songs go from strength to strength

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 08:33 PM

Admittedly I have not read the entire thread. I will just say that Ron Olesko (with whom I share the co-hosting chores of Traditions--which he founded 25 yrs ago) has not only remembered him (Stan Rogers) but commemorated him with a wonderful documentary.   Some 3 hrs in length that many of you heard on the air or on our website.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Marion
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 08:39 PM

True, Brucie, I'm surprised that Bryan Adams isn't on the list. I would think that Celine Dion and Stomping Tom would be contenders too.

Marion

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Peace
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 09:05 PM

The thing is, there doesn't seem to be a heckuva lotta rhyme or reason for WHY some people make it and some people don't. I gave up watching 'award' shows years ago. All of 'em, because the only place it really matters is what is held in the hearts and minds of people. I could listen to "Summer of '69" fifty times in a row. In fact, I have done so. I love the work of Adams. Rita MacNeil has a beautiful voice. Michel Pagliaro's music is great. So was Oscar Peterson's. Even Dion's stuff has a quality I admire. And I enjoy the rawness of Stomping Tom. So, basically, screw the academies and their choices. Don't amount to squat with me. I like who I like, and I have never cared who agreed with me. I do not see 'folk' as a counter culture--basically, it's an expression of an aspect of our culture. Canada has produced and will continue to produce writers, singers and performers who have great depth and talent. We know that, and sometimes that has to be good enough.

I didn't know Stan well, but I did know him. He was a great guy and a fine person. Never got 'swelled' in the head. His music? It was great, and that bloody wonderful voice of his will echo in people's living rooms long after CARAS is a forgotten collection of meaningless letters that spell something that looks like a word. Forget that crap. You people know what's really important. Keep on knowing that.

Murdoch

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Peace
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 09:18 PM

Hell, when a phone rings anywhere, I always yell out, "If that's Shania Twain, I'm here." Yeah, lots of good folks don't get mentioned. To quote Joe Fineman, "What really counts is that [s]he's in MY Hall of Fame." So's Stan.

BM

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 10:25 PM

Stan once asked me standing at the bar at Holstein's folk club in Chicago why I'd not learned any of his songs. I told him that was because when he did a song--any song--he nailed it, and did it so damn well that anyone trying to do his songs was bound to pale by comparison. He wasn't happy with that answer, but I do think there was some real truth to it.

The next week I was singing his "White Squawl". (That can't be spelled right, can it?

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Teresa
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 10:37 PM

I have to agree with you, Art. No one does Stan's songs like he did. I know that's true of many, but I especially notice it with Stan.

"White Squall" still makes me shiver. Not to belittle Gordon Lightfoot, but any time anyone mentions "Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" I always point them to that song. I think those two songs would be an interesting medley. Just a whimsical thought. ...

Teresa

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 10:52 PM

Like with most people who get their songs covered... I've heard some who cover Stan very well, and some who should stop out of respect for his music!

LOL

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Teresa
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 10:53 PM

and here are the lyrics for White Squall

Teresa

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 04:53 AM

This hall of fame has no credibility.

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 11:50 AM

Marion, isn't Celine Dion Swiss?

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 02:54 PM

French-Canadian actually....

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 03:19 PM

Just Swiss enough for the Eurovision song contest.

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Midchuck
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 03:32 PM

All I know about Celine Dion I learned from the Arrogant Worms' song about her. So I don't want to know any more.

The AW should also make the Canadian Hall of Fame, IMO.

"...I can see your house from my van..."

Peter.

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Big Mick
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 04:16 PM

I don't buy into any of these rationalizations. The simple fact is that Stan's music reaches across genre's and cultures. His music is popular and sung by performers in Ireland, Great Britain, Australia and the US, among others. His life and music is celebrated. Every single time I have an audience which includes folks from the Maritimes, I have to sing Barrette's Privateers and Northwest Passage. The performance doesn't go by that someone doesn't request Mary Ellen Carter. I started doing White Squall and First Christmas over the last year and I am constantly told what wonderful songs they are and how great it was to hear them again.

A Canadian Hall of Fame is about Canada's favorite sons and daughters. To suggest that folk music is some offbeat genre, just doesn't hold water. One of the reasons I love that country is its vibrant folk scene. It may not be pop, but few places have a more alive and talented folk music community. To ignore one of the greatest among that community, a person with world wide recognition and who has brought great honor to the music community is hard to believe.

Mick

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Peace
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 04:39 PM

Hear that man. He knows whereof he speaks.

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 04:42 PM

" To suggest that folk music is some offbeat genre, just doesn't hold water."

Everything is an 'off-beat' genre... In that you can't put one over another in anything but the most subjective of contexts...

"They lost sight of you, as your legend's grown
But thie road and I... we remember"
-Garnet Rogers-

Subject: RE: Stan Rogers Ignored Once Again
From: Peace
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 04:44 PM

Anyone here ever heard of The Rankin Family?