BS: BLACK THURSDAY

Subject: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: LadyJean
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 01:12 AM

Americans are being asked not to spend money on Thursday January 20, to protest the Bush inauguration. Do not buy anything, luxuries, necessities. Do not eat out. Postpone that long distance call. Don't go to the movies. Don't spend money. Let Bush know that 51% is NOT a mandate.
They are also asking that we not go to work. I work for myself. The couple I would be working for that day are observant Jews who like to have their home looking nice for the sabbath. So, I'm going to work. I'm self employed, and my employer does not support Bush.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Teresa
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 01:22 AM

I have the luxury of not working for a boss as well. Most do not. I'm sure we can all do what we can, if we feel the need to do it.

I will also have the TV off on that day. Shrub is not *my* president, technicalities notwithstanding. :>

Teresa

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: GUEST,Rapaire
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 09:06 AM

I will most certainly be working -- actually, I'll be in Boise, attending a breakfast for the Idaho State Legislature and put on by the Idaho Library Association. We're trying to get support for Idaho's public libraries, a cause far dearer to my heart than either of the political parties. For one thing, if more people use libraries perhaps more people would actually start to think, and who knows where that might lead?

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 12:15 PM

Ya-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-wnnnnnnn

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 12:45 PM

LadyJean, if I don't buy anything that day, would you promise to not take a dump all day?

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Padre
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 01:31 PM

We're going out to eat on Thursday as we do every Thursday. No change of plans scheduled. Also, Thursday is Senior Citizens day at the grocery store, with 5% off for those of us over 55. I will be doing my usual shopping that day. Sorry to inconvenience you.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: saulgoldie
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 01:35 PM

With "them" closing down more and more avenues of protest and corrupting the voting processes, it is getting to where my only remaining way to make my views known are by withholding my dollars. I will participate. I will also commit to more thoughtfully spending (and withholding!) ALL my money in all circumstances, not just on that day.

* * * *

Hey Martin, do you actually have any friends? Do you talk to them the way you talk to the 'Catters who respectfully disagree with you and correct your misinformation and misconceptions? You just sound so bitter. That bitterness adds plenty of heat but no light to any discussion. Perhaps you were weaned on cactus?? Just wunnerin.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 01:38 PM

I was planning to be in mourning but I like the idea of not spending anything too. Not like I have much to spend...

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 02:00 PM

Martin is with you on this one, as he never does anything anyway--

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: DougR
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 02:10 PM

Who is asking Lady Jean?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 02:35 PM

Here is information about "Not One Damn Dime Day".

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 02:40 PM

saulgoldie

Plenty of friends. Real friends. real hands to shake. Real people to agree with or disagree with. Life in a real world 1000 miles northeast of a very biased web forum.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: saulgoldie
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 03:06 PM

Martin,
The issue was not disagreement. It was the WAY one disagrees and "talks" to those one disagrees with in a manner utterly devoid of a shred of respect for their dignity or personhood. I presume you do not talk to those 1000 mile friends the same way you talk to other 'Catters? And why not? That was my question.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 03:24 PM

Is it because all but a few don't show the President of the U.S. any respect, why do they deserve any either?

Or is it that holier than thou attitude of the far left?

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 04:58 PM

While I hate the weenie shrub with a passion, I try not to let it distort my thinking about the 51% who voted for him. They were exercising their political rights, just as I did.

And 51% IS a mandate. It is as big a mandate as Clinton had.

If we are going to fight for our democracy, we should at least honor the results of the elections, IMO. That includes the results that showed much funny stuff in Ohio and New Hampshire (? was it?).

To protest the weenie shrub and to let the 51% that voted for him that I will not be silent about the war on Iraq, AND to let them know I protest against the gutting of democratic rights, rape of the environment, etc etc by this administration is something I do everyday anyway.

I'm hoping to be able to attend one of our local "Anti-Inaugural Balls" staged by a local peace committee and a local "Nice White House". As they say, it'll be fun, and cheaper than moving to Canada or paying for therapy!

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: PoppaGator
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 05:07 PM

"I'm sure we can all do what we can, if we feel the need to do it."

Since the idea is to do NOTHING, wouldn't it make more sense to say:

"Let's all do as little as we can, unless we feel the absolute need to do something!"

???

I'll be at work -- can't afford not to -- but I'm sure I can get through the day without spending a penny. Like most other weekdays.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: *Laura*
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 05:47 PM

wouldn't it just be easier to throw stones?
or shoot him or something?

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 05:55 PM

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like anyone would be able to get close enough. NPR aired a story this morning you can listen to here about the ways the current security infrastructure in Washington is pro-administration, and very anti-demonstration of our constitutional rights of assembly and right of dissent.

When I close my eyes, I see scary people.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 06:56 PM

I don't really understand this at all.

You know how democracy works. 51% is a mandate. a bloody good one . thatcher ruled England on just over 38%. The stuff she did still brings tears to the eyes of many, but those were the rules. she got more votes than anybody else, so she did pretty much what she wanted. there were entire countries in there, where hardly a vote had been cast for her but those were the rules.

If you dont want Mr Bush - either you join his party and get him de-selected, or you join the other lot, and organise him being vanquished.

If you don't get involved in organised politics, its no use just acting mardy. Bush won't give a toss whether you phone up somebody on that day. Get real.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: dianavan
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 10:53 PM

Thanks LadyJean -

Sounds like a good way to get the message across to those who don't seem to be listening.

From the SRS link:

"There's no rally to attend. No marching to do. No left or right wing agenda to rant about. On "Not One Damn Dime Day" you take action by doing nothing. You open your mouth by keeping your wallet closed. For 24 hours, nothing gets spent, not one damn dime, to remind our religious leaders and our politicians of their moral responsibility to end the war in Iraq and give America back to the people."

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 11:01 PM

Hey, I ain't plannin' on boycotting the DC Metro subway to get my boney Wes Ginny butt down to DC so I can hold up my "CROOK" sign...

Sorry...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: M.Ted
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 01:25 PM

Someone has finally figured out a way to for people to express themselves by doing absolutely nothing--I think this will usher in a whole new age of activism!!

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 01:38 PM

*Laura* in this day and age your flippant suggestion is understandable but still inappropriate.

Send him some pretzels instead.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Barry Finn
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 01:59 PM

Thanks LadyJean

I'd have agree with saulgoldie above, our options for practicing our right to protest is dwindling & my family & I will put our .02 cents worth in to protest the "Village Idiot".

I don't believe 51% is a mandate, espically when it turns out that 51% was not a true % in 2000 & it seems as if it may be the same now/again.

Maybe we had a reason not to allow poll watchers from outside the US to closley monitor our elections as we demand the monitoring of others.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: PoppaGator
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 02:37 PM

A whole new age of *IN*activism, Ted! I like it!

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Once Famous
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 03:34 PM

Let's all eat a steak dinner on 1/20.

waiter, make mine medium well, please.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Auggie
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 04:02 PM

First of all, it's grossly inacuurate to blame this war on religious leaders. I've yet to hear anyone in our church, or any church, offer up a prayer for the military to continue to successfully kill those of a different faith. Like most wars, this is about money and power, with religion serving as part of an orchestrated smokescreen.

I'm not a big Bush fan and I absolutely in the strongest of all possible terms detest and abhor his ill-conceived, idiotic and immoral misuse of my tax dollars in the MiddleEast, especially when done in the name of "protecting" me.

From my perspective however, this "Do Nothing Day" does not have the ability to hurt the salaried fat cats and Neocons who do like this war, but would be more likely to impact the day laborers and hourly workers inclined to participate in the protest.

You still need a week's worth of food,fuel and services every seven days, regardless of when you purchase it. Monthly spending totals in America for January are going to be the same regardless of what is spent on Black Thursday, and all those big feeders way up in the economic food chain are still going to laugh all the way to the bank.

As a symbolic gesture I think it fails as well. All it does is further open the doorway for Pro-Bush pundits and late night comics to paint those involved as folks who would probably "do nothing" most days anyway and expect the government to subsidize them (PLEASE don't misunderstand-I am not suggesting that is a valid viewpoint,just a tempting target for talking-head wags).

You wanna protest? Then work to give him a congress in '06 that won't tolerate this MiddleEast insanity, don't just "Do Nothing" and expect something good to come of it.

Oh, and *Laura*... be sure and tidy up the house because the Men in Black will be over shortly to discuss the repercussions of your really stupid suggestion, even tho obviously made in jest.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: GUEST,artbrooks
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 04:56 PM

GUEST 13 Jan 4:58 PM said 51% IS a mandate. It is as big a mandate as Clinton had. Actually, Clinton had, in his second term, 54.7% of the popular vote, which was a 9.4% vote spread compared to the Bush/Kerry divide of almost exactly 3%.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 09:00 AM

And Clinton's first term mandate? Less than the current mandate Bush has by a long shot: 43%. And I question where your information is coming from regarding Clinton's percentage of the popular vote in 1996. My understanding was Clinton won 49.23% in 1996 to Dole's 40.72%.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: artbrooks
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 12:03 PM

Is this the same GUEST? No matter. My figures came from here. They may be off because I only considered the votes for the majority parties when I figured the percentages.   My point was that GUEST 13 Jan 4:58 PM was in error when he or she said that Bush's margin was approximately the same as Clinton's. These are for second terms, of course...shall we discuss Clinton's margin in 1992 against Bush's popular vote loss in their respective first terms?

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 12:21 PM

No artbrooks, I'd be satisfied for you to use the actual percentages Clinton got, which were less than Bush's, as I stated in my original post above. Clinton never enjoyed a 51% mandate, Bush does. Your figure is made up fantasy and wishful thinking.

You don't get to change the actual figures provided by the FEC just to prove yourself right and anon guest whom you loathe, wrong.

I hate Bush with a passion, but I'm not going to make up my own set of imaginary "facts" to justify my opposition to his policies. I actually want to be taken seriously. People like you never are, because you lie, fudge the figures, etc. to justify your wobbly, weak position.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 12:39 PM

OK, I was ever so slightly off. But close enough. Clinton never enjoyed as large a percentage of the popular vote as Bush does with his second term. Am I pleased at that? No. But it is the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: artbrooks
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 02:32 PM

Well, GUEST 15 Jan 05 12:39 PM, what I said was that Mr. Clinton spread over Mr. Bush, using only figures for the 2 major parties, was 9.4%. The site you use, using the vote count for all the parties, gives the difference as 8.53%. I stand corrected. It is also true that Mr. Bush received 50.78% of the popular vote in 2004, which rounds upward to 51%, compared to the 50.05% Mr. Clinton received in 1996. 0.73% does represent a tremendous achievement, in the almost total absence of a third-party candidate, doesn't it? I suppose that you and other Republicans like GUEST 15 Jan 05 12:39 PM are pleased, and we will have to wait almost four more years to see if the voices of moderation will reappear.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: pdq
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 03:17 PM

artbrooks -

There were 'third party' candidates in all recent elections. If you ignore that fact you are tampering with the results.

Here are the official results from the last five U.S. presidential elections:

53.37%        George H. W. Bush
43.01% Bill Clinton
49.23% Bill Clinton
47.87% George W. Bush
50.73% George W. Bush

The 43.01% plurality of Clinton in 1992 is the one which stands out as aberrant.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: GUEST,Cretinous Yahoo
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 03:30 PM

Seems to me that the REASON he got almost 51% should be considered. First, the democrats put up a posturing asshole to run against an incumbent president who was in the middle of an unnecessary, illegal war which he started on the basis of a lie, plus he has the support of a large gang of redneck bible pounders who love a theocracy and hate anyone who thinks for himself.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: GUEST,Peter Woodruff
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 04:14 PM

On January 20, 2005 I plan to be at the Eggnaugeration with a busload of outraged people from Maine. Any other Mudcatters going besides Bobert? I will be on the corner of 4th Street and Pennsylvania Avenue with the A.N.S.W.E.R. croud.

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 06:38 PM

Good for you, Peter

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Dani
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 06:49 PM

As someone who just closed a small business (partly) for lack of sufficient business, let me tell you the impact it would have had on me if no one bought anything in my town (including my restaurant) that day: I would not be able to make the money to pay my payroll for the week. It would come out of my pocket.

Not spending money doesn't make any sense to me at all. Why not just spend it MINDFULLY, THOUGHTFULLY, with an eye to the impact that each dollar makes in your town, your community.

Whoever thought of this crack-brained idea has too much time on their hands, and no real idea of how our economy works down here in the trenches.

For the record, George W. Bush and his administration scare the shit out of me.

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 10:59 PM

Well artbrooks, I'm so glad the official government website for US elections meets with your approval.

But it still begs the question, who died and left you in charge of rigging the results to fit your argument?

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Kaleea
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 01:46 AM

If one is unhappy with the current leaders, one important thing to remember is the power of a pen with ink. "Bigwigs" look upon a hand written letter very seriously. So few people take the time to actually write out & sign a letter that they realize one letter represents the beliefs of a large amount of people. I have written a few letters in my time.
    I also refuse to argue with those who do not share my opinions. In the "Traditional" Music scene in the Midwest it is not easy to be a so called liberal. Instead, I point out positive things about the other opinion when appropriate. Or try to make a point in a less combative way: I sometimes wonder out loud to them if the hateful words/mean spirited actions/etc of so & so are what the Master taught. Once a few years badk, when a fellow picker was going on about Hillary being a carpetbagger by going to New York, I innocently asked, "And where is Jeb originally from?"

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: artbrooks
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 12:33 PM

...silly GUEST....

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 01:07 PM

Silly because I made you look stupid art?

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: DougR
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 01:54 PM

To each his own I say. If it makes you feel better to do as "they" say, do it.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: jaze
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 02:19 PM

Very wise attitude, Kallea. And great comeback.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 04:46 PM

I would LOVE to think of a way to keep it in G.W. Bush's awareness that he is DISapproved by 49% of the populace....but I don't think this notion is gonna do it...He thinks that if he's 'in', it's a mandate. Note the headline in today's Washington Post.


Bush Says Election Ratified Iraq Policy
No U.S. Troop Withdrawal Date Is Set

By Jim VandeHei and Michael A. Fletcher
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, January 16, 2005; Page A01

President Bush said the public's decision to reelect him was a ratification of his approach toward Iraq and that there was no reason to hold any administration officials accountable for mistakes or misjudgments in prewar planning or managing the violent aftermath.

"We had an accountability moment, and that's called the 2004 elections," Bush said in an interview with The Washington Post. "The American people listened to different assessments made about what was taking place in Iraq, and they looked at the two candidates, and chose me."

(if you wanta go stand in the cold and have your banners get maybe 4 seconds on the evening news, fine...but I sure wish someone had thought of something more creative than not spending money...)

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 07:20 PM

I believe the whole idea of this is to show that people can still come together and have an input into what goes on in this country.
The problem I see in it (or if it flies, may not be a problem) is that we are always fighting the wrong fight. Why don't we fight to save our oceans or forests or ozone layer by being more conscientious about what we do, or drive, or use, or abuse.

Stepping down of recycled soap box and exiting stage right--->

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: dianavan
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 07:35 PM

Thats right, Rustic Rebel.

I agree that one day of refraining from shopping is not going to have a direct impact on GWB. If, however, the business people scream at the govt., as a result, it might. It also serves as a warning to GWB that bigger boycotts will effect him unless he stops his reign of terror.

The best thing you can do is stop buying gas and walk or ride public transit. Another thing you can do is stop buying overly packaged goods - especially plastic. Boycott all the big guys like WalMart and Safeway - buy locally - think globally.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Lighter
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 07:38 PM

Without trying to be political: a president's "mandate" *used* to mean overwhelming public support in a lopsided election, like FDR vs. Landon or Nixon vs. McGovern. If 51% is a "mandate," then Gore had one in 2000.

People who voted last year were almost evenly divided between Kerry and Bush. We don't know about the millions who didn't bother, but presumably they either didn't care or were so thoroughly undecided as to further undermine the idea of a "mandate" in 2004.

Anyone in the media who identifies a *real* mandate in the last two elections either doesn't know what they're talking about (a real possibility wheer journalists are concerned) or else has an ulterior motive.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 09:03 AM

I agree Lighter. Problem is political amnesia, and people believing whatever they want to believe so long as it doesn't challenge their political opinions and voting choices.

It has been ages since an American president was elected with anything that could be considered a true mandate. The recent history of US presidential elections has seen fewer and fewer citizens participating by exercising their political right to vote, with a huge gap between potential voters, and actual voters (now running at roughly half of potential voters).

Additionally, we haven't had an American president elected with over 60% of the actual popular vote (remembering that is roughly half of the potential popular vote), so the idea of a declaring a mandate/denying a mandate exists, is clearly done by people with a partisan agenda.

Reagan only pulled off 58.4% of the popular vote in 1984 with 53.1% of eligible voters voting, and only 50.7% of the vote in 1980 2/52.6% of eligible voters voting, and he is nowadays referred to as "America's most popular president since Roosevelt" by the media and Republican party.

Actually, Nixon pulled 60.7% of the vote in 1972 (after just squeaking in with 43% to Hubert's 42% in 1968) with 55.2% of eligible voters voting, but nobody wants to remember "The Crook" as America's most popular president in recent years, so we just sort of erase that history. And lest we forget--Nixon was re-elected with that majority mandate during the height of anti-Vietnam War protests. Which Americans, boomers especially, love to conveniently ignore so they can maintain their erroneous illusions about "the way it was" in our golden youth.

In 1964 (in the wake of the JFK assassination) LBJ won with 61.1% and 61.7% of eligible voters voting. People forget that Roosevelt only took 53.4% of the vote in 1944, 54.7% in 1940 and 1932, and 60.8% in 1936 with 61% of eligible voters voting.

So actually, the most popular president since WWII wasn't even Roosevelt, as he won with his 60% mandate prior to American involvement in the war. He wasn't a particularly popular wartime president. He was most popular for social programs.

Nixon and Johnson have been the two most popular presidents since Roosevelt. Funny how we never hear that fact echoing round the media echo chamber or in the political parties' spin meistering, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 09:22 AM

The % of eligible voters in 20th century elections follows. The most recent low voter turnout elections, especially the 1996 election, are the lowest voter turnouts since the Great Depression. Ironic, that in the supposed "greatest boom in history" wouldn't you say?

2000 - 51%

1996 - 49%

1992 - 55.2%

1988 - 50.1%

1984 - 53.1%

1980 - 52.6%

1976 - 53.6%

1972 - 55.2%

1968 - 50.1%

1964 - 61.7%

1960 - 64%

1956 - 60.6%

1952 - 63.3%

1948 - 62.5%

1944 - 56%

1940 - 62.5%

1936 - 61%

1932 - 56.9%

1928 - 56.9%

1924 - 48.9%

1920 - 49.2%

1916 - 61.6%

1912 - 58.8%

1908 - 65.4%

1904 - 65.2%

1900 - 73.2%

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 10:15 AM

One final historical note on voter turnout--the typical voter turnout in the last half of the 19th century was in the 73-80% range. Of course, that was with white men with means being the only voters. That was before women's suffrage, and electoral reforms that allowed African Americans, Native Americans, etc. to vote too.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: kendall
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 02:02 PM

Bush still doesn't get it. He thinks that because he got most of the votes that the whole country approves of what he wants to do. It's that black or white, right or wrong no in between mind set that drives me batty about conservatives.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: GUEST,Lighter at work
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 03:11 PM

Thank you, "Guest," for your extremely informative posts.

Other than the professional political spinmeisters, TV journalists seem to be the worst (though there are notable exceptions). Print journalists have more space to work with and can provide important background and details. Once they reach the national level, they've usually had enough experience to know something about their subject.

TV reporters, however, are almost always forced to simplify, exaggerate, and to some extent cry wolf just to keep viewers from switching channels. We've all noticed the unnaturally urgent tone that TV correspondents adopt to report on almost anything. When Prince Harry acts like a (big) dope in public, this appears on American TV with dramatic music and a full screen saying "FOX NEWS ALERT!" or "CNN BREAKING NEWS!" - exactly the same as when a roadside bomb kills a GI in Iraq, the president announces a cabinet nomination, or a tsunami kills 150,000 people.

Old stuff, but worth repeating.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Once Famous
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 10:07 PM

dianavan

Having traveled some 1200 miles in the great midwest over the last 3 days, I can safely report to you that your boycott ideas do not seem to be shared with anyone.

In other words, no one is listening to that.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Jan 05 - 03:21 AM

I think its a good idea, Martin but its not mine.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Jan 05 - 05:48 PM

Spoken like a true American ex-patriot, dianavan.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jan 05 - 06:22 PM

One percentage that Bush shoule be concerned about is his approval ratings which are under 50%. This does not bode well for Bush being able to carry out much more of his right winged agenda.

I'll go one record right here and now in predicting that Bush will NOT get his Social Security privatization plan thru Congress...

And that's just fir starters...

Throw in the unwinable war that Bush has started, the scandals from the first 4 years getting ready to get ironed out, he will go down inhistory as the worst president of all time...

BObert

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jan 05 - 10:33 PM

Peter, and others:

I cannot make this demonstartion. Way too many other forces factoring in, none the less Channel 5 news very possibly coming to Winchester, va. to do a story on some pencil notes written on some plaster walls by Union soldiers during the Civil War that we've uncovered during the restoration of a 200 year old building that I am supervising...

This was an agonizing decision but, hey, I will be there in spirit...

Sniff...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 10:59 AM

Bobert, if you give Bush and Rehnquist the middle-finger salute at noon, that will be sufficient. :)

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 11:10 AM

I think this is one of those meaningless protests that is harmful for being a waste of time and for appearing to be, well, kinda stupid. It's like that protest the war by not buying gasoline all day. It's a misdirection of energy.

If you had a cause to contribute, say, the opposition party, magnetic stickers that say "support our troops, bring 'em home" then endorsing them would be a more meaninful response.

This protest is ineffective and diversive, therefore endorses the Bush opposition as wimpy.

Thanks for letting me vent abit.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 12:36 PM

The local dems are having a candlelight vigil tonight, in mourning/hope for a better future than we are afraid we will get...

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 02:50 PM

Why don't you just take some Prosac?

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 07:19 PM

Well, the protests are not meaningless, quite the contrary... The boycott, however, is silly. Heck, we should be tracking down the major contributors to the Bush folks and boycott them 365!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: DougR
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 10:34 PM

I bought me a brand new vehicle today! I wanted something that I was sure would titilate my Mudcat friends, so I bought a Hummer. I'm told it gets about 8 miles to the gallon but since I'm mostly retired, I'll probably just drive it down to the 7-11 and back home anyway. Also took my wife out to breakfast, lunch and dinner and tipped the waiters twice the normal 20% amount. Went to Dillard's and stocked up on new shoes, shirts, and pants.

I didn't want to miss any of the festivities on TV so I did all that after watching a very inspiring Inaguaral Ceremony.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 10:40 PM

The last republican president that was worthy of honor or respect was Eisenhower. Since then, nada.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 10:52 PM

Hope you enjoy yer Hummer, Dougie... Prolly the last one yer ever gonna get...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 11:34 PM

Conspicuous consumption sounds about right for today.

That Hummer would just about pay off my house.

:-/

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 11:44 PM

When you have 2 phony political parties that are bought out by corporate lobbyists...51% is not a mandate...61% is not a mandate...no frigging official vote is a mandate in such a phony $ySStem.

I guess Big Brother had a mandate in 1984 too, didn't he? And Joe Stalin. In their case it was more like 99%. Big deal.

Those who actually believe this $ySSTem is a real democracy are dumb enough, I suppose, to deserve what they get when they vote in one bozo or the other from those 2 parties. Ah, what touching naivete! Brings a tear to the eye, it does. Bushwah uber alles!

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 12:29 AM

Boycotts are effective when done for an extended period time by enough people. I find it sad that most Americans won't even try. I mean what is the harm? It is the only way some people can protest anything. I mean, how easy it is to get to D.C. for most folks?

Apathy is what got us into this mess in the first place.

If the only way to show displeasure is to refrain from spending, than thats what should be done. Its better than doing nothing. Then again, it looks like Bush is doing a pretty good job at crippling the economy all on his own. I guess he doesn't need our help. After all, he and his buddies are never gonna feel any pain no matter what happens.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Once Famous
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 09:12 PM

There was no boycott mention in any news media that I could find anywhere.

Hope your empty stomach didn't disturb anyone somewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 10:37 PM

Don't confuse apathy with common sense. Boycotts do work--I was another who didn't eat grapes for a long time, or buy Gallo wine for decades. But in our Internet age the suggestion to boycott this or support that is so easy, and so fleeting, it's like the Judy Garland/Mickey Rooney line in those old movies: "Let's put on a show!" Except that most things don't end up like a Broadway musical at the drop of a hat, and many people are skeptical of the rather naive modern attempts at boycotts. If you want to particpate in a meaningful movement, then look around and find someone who is making a difference and join forces with them. MoveOn.org, for example. The ACLU. People for the American Way. But don't chastise people if they don't feel like going off half-cocked and don't feel like defending themselves for making that choice.

In other words, focus on what is important to you and move forward, don't scold those around you for not sharing your view of how to accomplish what needs to be done. Your heart is in the right place, dianavan, but you're coming across as the new kid on the block when the old campaigners have different prespectives and different approaches. Good luck, and please let us know what you do choose to do.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: DougR
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 10:54 PM

Martin: I think you may not be reading the "right" publications (pun intended). I read the Cut-N-Shoot Times, printed in Cut-N-Shoot, Ohio, and it was reported that their poll indicated that fifteen people in the U. S. did not spend one damn dime on "Black Thursday."

Who says boycotts don't work?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: BLACK THURSDAY
From: JennyO
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 10:32 AM

I bought a nice new (second hand) car yesterday, but it was Friday, not Thursday, so I suppose that makes it all right ;-)