BS: I need friend advice

Subject: BS: I need friend advice
From: GUEST,anxious 'catter
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 05:18 AM

I'm kinda getting worried about one of my friends - he is, to put it bluntly, a slut. He's only 16 but I know for a fact (not just male bragging or anything) that he's slept with at least 8 girls, it didn't used to worry me as he used to be in good relationships - but recently he's started cheating a lot and just messing around with girls.

He lives with both his parents and his two younger brothers, and I've been good friends with him for ages and there's never been anything 'romantic' between us, so I would like to think I can talk to him kinda like a sister - but if I try and get too serious on the subject he either brushes it off or gets annoyed and won't talk about it.

I'm just getting a bit worried about his seeming lack of respect for girls - we were out the other night having a minor argument about someone I like and he doesn't - I said he has to respect my opinion even if he doesn't agree. His reply was 'No I don't - you're a woman I don't have to respect anything about you'
he was only joking and he apologised immediately, but I fear it's too close to what he does actually believe.

If anyone has any advice at all I would be grateful - I care about him a lot and I'd hate for him or anyone else to get hurt.

cheers

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 05:34 AM

Hi Anxious,

Sounds to me as though he doesn't deserve a friend like you, so I'd have to say he's lucky you still care.

From past experience, I would suggest that you will be fighting a losing battle trying to change him, and your best course is just to be there to pick up the pieces when he gets his inevitable comeuppance. He WILL meet someone he really cares for, and get slapped down, and only then will he realise what respect is all about. That's when you can make a difference! I know it's hard just to watch, but right now he feels invincible, and it will take a good solid defeat to change that.

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 07:01 AM

Or, it could just be a phase. Teenage boys are prone to such phases... in which case he'll grow out of it. I hope he's using protection.

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: GUEST,anxious catter
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 07:09 AM

Just to clarify - when I say he's slept with at least 8 girls - I don't mean he's had 8 serious relationships. He's had about 3 serious relationships.
And the 'at least' - that really is an 'at least' - I don't want to go around naming numbers that I'm not sure about so I only put what I know for sure - but I'd guess it's more than that.

He needs to learn some fucking respect and I don't know what I can do to help him. You're damn right Don - it's hard to watch!

cheers

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: Angiemac
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 07:26 AM

You are a good mate and I'm afraid to say that from my experience Don is right. You'll just have to sit back and pick up the pieces when it goes Pete Tong. However, I am a firm believer that life, fate or a higher source (whatever you believe in) has a wonderfull way of teaching us lessons we need to learn, especially humility. Just continue to be his friend, and if he has people like you in his life then he can't be that poor a judge of what's important and will eventually work it out for himself. Good luck x Angie

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 08:31 AM

Ahhhhhh, he *is* a 16 year old boy, ain't he?

(That's no excuse, Bobert...)

Nevermind, call Doctor Phil...

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 09:20 AM

Be concerned for him, but don't smother him.. that will just make him go off and do it more..

How frank can your conversations be? Make sure he is being sensible, even if he's being a prat. Some STDs are easily cured... some are not so easily cured, and some are permanent. Remind him that babies can be classed as an STD!

As above.... sit back, keep an open mind and let him know that you're his friend always and will be there when the novelty has finally worn off.

(I don't want to worry you though, but there are the occasional blokes for whom the novelty NEVER wears off!)

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 09:27 AM

Sounds like he is dead scared of gurlz! He'll grow up and realise he was right to be. Buy him some condoms.

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 09:45 AM

Anxious,

Sooner or later he's gonna hit on one of your female friends. Now there's an ethical dilemma! Perhaps he might like to institute a policy NOW that he doesn't need to tell you about his sexual exploits-- like, hey, PRIVACY, dude! In any event, Anxious, you can let him know you do not want to hear about this dangerous and troubling behavior, nor to know who he is taking advantage of.

Eventually word will get out anyhow (via Girls Left Behind), and the girls will realize he's not trustworthy for anything but fun. Reality will tend to set in then!

Hardi always says, "There's nothing wrong with 16 [or insert any age] that 17 [or any next-later age] won't fix."

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: Amos
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 09:46 AM

Aside from stirring up feelings of jealousy, is the problem just the risk of STD? Or of fatherhood? Condoms is a good hint indeed. But he probably uses them I would expect. Is the problem that the girls don't want to sleep with him? Or is the problem that you are afraid he's going to grow up to be promiscuous? If these are consensual liaisons, and he is sowing wild oats but avoiding STDs, then I don't see what the problem is exactly...you can tell him it will never make him happy, but perhaps he will also learn that himself. Seems like he's gott o discover sooner or later the difference between rabbit behavior and commuinication.   But as mentioned above he IS only 16!

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: Raptor
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 09:53 AM

This is not gonna be a popular post but here it goes


Sounds to me that the real deal here is that you want him to like you and not chase after anyone else!

Sixteen year old boys mostly have no respect for anyone!

They are controled by thier penis
The atraction of a Girl in a tight sweater takes all the blood away from thier brains and puts it somewhere else!

How do you know for a fact that he slept with 8 girls? Where you there? Cuz let me tell you the facts here 16 year old boys LIE about getting sex(shocking I know).

He will get over this so called Phase but you propably wont know him in 60 years so the best advice is to be more honest with yourself, admit at least you like him, than get over it!

Sorry if I sound Harsh

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 10:33 AM

Interesting post, Raptor...your description of the typical horny 16-year-old boy is very accurate.

Some boys are seriously inclined and romantic. They want only one faithful female partner. Others are like this guy, and they want to pick every second apple on the tree, every five minutes. As I remember back in high school, they were divided about 50/50 in my classes. I was among the serious, romantic ones...and ended up having sex with no girls at all, until some time after high school had ended... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 11:43 AM

While I suspect that this boy's "accomplishments" may be a little - or a lot - less than he claims, it appears that he's not acting in a manner that you really respect. If you are close enough to the girls he's "done it with" to have their confirmation of what he claims, then perhaps you don't have that much respect for them either(?).

Be aware that reputations "rub off." If you seek out the company of those with the reputation for "getting it," your peers will soon assume that he's "getting it" from you, or at least that you want him to.

If you don't respect his reputation, you probably don't want the same reputation to be "attached" to you; and truth and lofty ideals have nothing to do with rumors. People won't know that you're just "being his friend." They'll assume that you're like him, unless you're very careful.

This doesn't mean you have to give up your friendship with this boy; but it does mean that you should make it always clear that it's a friendship and not a "relationship" (assuming that is what you want). The simplest way of doing that probably is to make it obvious that you have equally valued friendships with boys (and girls) with other values more consistent with what you respect.

John

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 11:53 AM

Well I once fixed a mate of mine up with a girl who did, as he wasn't getting any doing. When I asked her a lot later, 'how did it go that time?', she said 'I didn't mind him practicing, but did it have to be on me?' I never told the guy concerned, but if your friend was to get a bit of anonymous negative feed back, it might slow him down a tad.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 12:25 PM

One piece of advice: CONDOMS.

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: GUEST,riverboat annie
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 12:47 PM

I say, "get your shag in with this hot little boy toy before it is too late!" He is one concupiscent little teener and you don't want to miss out on the fun!

riverboat annie

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 01:14 PM

1) DON'T even be tempted to have sex with him.

2) If he cannot show R-E-S-P-E-C-T towards you or any other girl, I would have nothing to do with him, at least for a period of time. He needs to be called on this.

3) Sounds as though he is a lot of TALK and Bravado with probably very little action, as others have said.

4) If you are really that concerned about him, talk to an adult who knows you both, whom you trust and get their take on it. IF you can, get him to talk to them, too.

5) Ask yourself, do you really want this person for a friend, any longer?

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 03:25 PM

He's probably mostly just trying to impress the other boys his age and convince himself that he's a "winner" at the same time...as well as have some "fun".

Me, I took sex and love way too seriously at that age to just classify it as fun...not that it can't be. :-)

One thing for sure, if you ever did have sex with the young fool you can be assured that his respect for you (assuming he HAS any now) would go down considerably. I feel sorry for idiots like that. They have yet to graduate into the human race, as far as I'm concerned.

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: GUEST,Anxious Catter
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 03:26 PM

Hi - thanks.
Raptor - I know for a fact that it's at least 8. Not just him saying so.

Trust me - I've been through the whole being friends, then wanting more, then spending a lot of time with him and his family (like I say - kinda like a sister) and now I really do see him for what he really is.

I know I gotta be careful cos he's a flirt and a smooth talker, and he can do that thing where he makes you feel like you're the only girl in the world. But, Kat, I haven't slept with him and (although I won't say I haven't been tempted in the past) I have absolutely no intention of it now.

It's not so much the number of girls that worries me - I know he's a teenage guy growing up and having fun, and as far as I'm aware he uses protection - it's the lack of respect.

Just, for example, going back to what he said to me. ('No I don't. [have to respect my opinion] You're a woman, I don't have to respect anything about you') Yeh - I know he was joking but with a guy like him - something like that in a joke is just a little too close to the truth.

So in answer to he question 'what is the actual problem?' - it's that.
He doesn't have the respect that girls (and some of them have been my friends) deserve.
He doesn't seem to have the ability to be 'just friends' with a girl without trying it on. (It's a bit different with us cos we've known each other for so long)

I sometimes joke to him he needs a sister, but it's kinda true. He needs someone who can teach him girls are worth more than sex.

I know there probably isn't anything I can do - I just get so frustrated watching him do this all the time!!! grrrrrr!

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 03:38 PM

Anyone who says, "You're a woman, I don't have to respect anything about you'" and then pretends it's a joke, is a major jerk, seriously in need of a comeuppance. Such jokes are not accidental, I assure you. They reveal the real truth about the speaker, in an unguarded moment.

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 08:17 PM

Funny that... everyone (myself included) has jumped on the sex angle of this dilema, but hardly anyone commented on the respect issue until AC reminded us of it....

Respect is a two way street. If you don't give it, you won't get it. I know it's a long way off and doesn't always happen, but this is the sort of jokey comment that can end in a trip to the Emergency room.. I know, I was that head injury.

If you respect his decision to behave like he does, but make it known that you don't like it, then maybe he might just see that it's not big and it's not clever. One day he'll joke to the wrong sort of woman and end up getting a poke in the eye rather than any other sort of poke.

This is extreme; but making jokes like that dehumanises people, and if a person is dehumanised, you can control them. Once that happens then you can do anything you want with or to them... how many people have we heard of who live with abusive partners but will not leave them? Abuse comes in many forms, and this verbal disrespect is the sort of thing that I was treated to. My abuser told me I could not do 'manly things'... if I put a plug on any electrical device, he would just cut the cord 2-3 inches away from the plug, without even looking to see if I'd done it right. If I made up flat pack furniture, he would take it apart and rebuild it. His upbringing was that women were there for cleaning, cooking and cocking, regardless of how they felt about it. I was only considered useful so long as I fulfilled these criteria. He started to teach me to drive specifically so I could drive him home when he was drunk. When I questioned this reasoning, he blacked my eye and broke a tooth. His work always came first, if he didn't have to go to work (he was a teacher), I had to make my own way 4 miles in to my job. His money was his, my money was also his, even though he earned 4 times more than I did. He blacked my eyes again and kicked me in the stomach when I set up my own bank account and wouldn't give him my money. I was arranging a place to go when 2 days after that, he fractured my skull, for trying to leave him.

I'm not saying that this is what your friend will be like... he may turn out to be a nice, normal boy and a good man... but I'd be worried about the respect issue too.

Try and talk to him, respect his decision to act like a twat, but make it very clear that although you will not ditch him totally, what he does makes you feel unhappy and uncomfortable. If he truly cares about your friendship, he will at least listen. If he doesn't, then I think it's probably time to say goodbye and let him get on with his own life, with a much cooler, casual friendship with you than previously.

Good luck!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 08:33 PM

8, 27, 142: What's the difference? Either he listens to you or he doesn't. Other than the possibility of spreading AIDS, he's playing games with people who are also playing games. Seems no one--other than you--is getting 'hurt' by it all. Why do you have trouble letting it go?

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: goodbar
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 10:51 PM

what a playa. i'm 16 and am yet to get any poot.

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: Teresa
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 11:24 PM

Liz, so glad you got out of that situation! :)

Respect is most important, IMO.

Teresa

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 11:43 PM

It just takes confidence, persistence, and a certain unscrupulous gift for manipulation, goodbar. It takes a really good act and lots of nerve. Learn how to fake sincerity and you are well on the way to a series of meaningless encounters with the opposite sex.

One of the most complete and total *ssholes I ever knew was constantly seducing women when he was in his late teens and early 20's (which was when I knew him). He wasn't good looking, he was short, and he was a slimy little jerk with the character of a toad...but...he was willing to say anything, do anything, spend lots of money, and basically go the extra mile to bed women...and it usually worked eventually. In fact, it very rarely didn't work...eventually. He was an amazingly persistent phony with absolutely no shame or scruples, and he tended to lose interest fast once he had "scored". I bet he is married now to some unfortunate woman who can't stand him. I did not envy him at the time, because, seriously, there was nothing there to envy.

Does this sound like what you are aspiring toward? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: Charmion
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 10:44 AM

Dear Anxious Catter, however much time you have spent with him and his family, whatever he may have said to you, that boy is not your friend.

The sex thing is merely the outward and visible sign of the respect thing, which is the core of the problem. Wash your hands of this fellow; in fact, you should have done so when he made his so-called joke. If his friends and members of his family ask why you don't come 'round any more, tell them.

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: NanArt
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 12:10 PM

My question is Does this young man have a Dad at home? If he does, how does his Dad treat women? How does his mother expect to be treated as a woman? Maybe a quiet talk with his parents when he isn't around mentioning that you worry that he is being disrepectful to women (including you) might be beneficial. You can do this in a way that is friendly and kind and ask speak to him in a way that doesn't have it coming back on you.

He is after all a teenager with raging hormones. His brain is not wired completely yet. Unleashed, with no limitations, a young hormone filled male is often a nasty attitude with a penis and no brain.

It does no harm to stay his friend, just don't push the issue to much yourself. Enlist the help of other friends and family to make a difference here.

Kathie M.
aka Nanart

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: Tinker
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 12:41 PM

Just reading this through and realized how differently the gender of the promiscuous party affected my response. Yes, exploring sexual power over the opposite sex can be an intoxicating stage for anyone, expecially in the teens, but if it is a continual search to verify self worth in the mirror of another it can be a real cry for help. Don't be afraid to talk to other concerned adults if there are other behaviors that make you worry. Is he acting like his friends, or his behavior out there on his own? And remember sometimes all you can do is be there. And sometimes you have to walk away.

tinker

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 12:55 PM

Anxious,

Some young people at his age (and yours) have gotten their values pretty deeply ingrained. Others are still trying on attitudes, to see how they fit. Still others (many) are voicing ways they've been treated (or seen loved ones treated) by acting those roles out, and this is a request for help-- for light to be shined into that area. It usually isn't the kind of thing a friend can help with-- it's the kind of thing where a good friend says, "Let's get you some good help about that."

Axious, your end of this friendship sounds like a bit of co-dependency in the making-- you taking care of someone else, possibly at your own expense, who can take care of himself (as well as he chooses to). Who you need to be taking care of at this stage of your life is YOU, and when people do that, it builds a foundation in each one so that people can take care of one another, interdependently, later in life.

This is a good time to explore what is a friend, in your own terms-- what do you require of people if they wish to be counted as a friend of yours? Until you explore that, it will be difficult to explore how you think you ought to treat people you count as friend, vs. how you treat people who are not your friend. You might treat them the same, or you might not. It's up to you. But it's good to look inside and see what's up, with you, about what you are requiring of yourself, toward him, and why. You might find that the model you are patterning this on is not a model you would wish to perpetuate, or you might find a great model and decide to follow it better. But to keep looking at HIS behavior and values for YOUR comfort level-- most counselors will tell you that's a big ole red flag whipping in your face, with the word "co-dependent" on it.

A good counselor I once knew said wisely, "We have interventions for the addicts and abusers, but there is no interevention for co-dependency. And it kills people as surely as does addiction."

This is a time in life when you get to work, first and foremost, on your own identity, and your peers are doing the same. There's only so much you can do to help each other out about that. You CAN share how hard it is to form that sense of self, separate from the adults and values you've been immersed in up till now. But for the content of "who" each of you is-- ya gotta know, people have to sort that out for themselves, and you only get to work on your own.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 01:19 PM

You said he was only joking and apologised straightaway. But you think it may be too close to what he actually thinks?
He is 16, and probably doesnt know what he thinks yet.

Are you being totally honest with yourself? Are you put out that he hasn't tried it on with you, even if it just gives you the chance to turn him down? Are you scared that he is growing up hormonally at a faster rate than you? Do you envy the time he has spent with other girls, over you? Are you anxious about the changes he is undegoing and the girls he has liased with?

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: GUEST,Anxious Catter
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 07:10 PM

Thanks for all your advice and for sharing your own experiences with me.
NanArt - its a really interesting question you asked - but yes he does have a dad at home. Both his parents live together, with his two younger brothers - I don't know his dad all that well so maybe he isnt very close (mostly when i've spent time with them it's been with him and his brothers and mum) but his mum is a lovely lovely person.

I do understand why you say 'walk away', but I don't want to. He will always have people around for him because he's charmed them - but he also has an equal number of people who don't like him. Either other guys who are either jealous of him or think he's a twat (thats mostly the ones who have proper friendships with girls), or girls that he's treated like shit, probably sometimes without even realising it.
He won't always a lot of people around him who are in it for the long haul.
I don't keep telling him constantly or anything, cos I don't want him to get too complacent, but he knows I'm gunna be there.

I can also see why lots of you think I like him. I have liked him in the past, as I explained previously, I know how I feel about him now.
Guest - again I can understand your questions, but I've always watched him spending time with other girls. And I have turned him down before - and at the time it was difficult, but I turned him down because I didn't want to become just another notch on the bedpost - which is what he would see me as. Like Little Hawk said - if I did then whatever repsect he has for me would just go, I suspect.

cheers

*An'Cat*

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 10:53 PM

Invite him to an evangelical church with you. Perhaps, he has The Spirit. Perhaps, you are both the spawn of Satan. It is good that you have elected to shepard souls....but look to your own salvation first.

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: GUEST,Anxious Catter
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 01:35 PM

Sorry to bring this up again, but I can't rant to anyone else so it's you guys I'm afraid.
I've just found some stuff out and, my god - he is such a cock. I don't believe what I've just heard - it's like all the times I've ever defended him or stuck up for him - he's just flung them back in my face. He's just proved himself to be someone very different to the guy I used to know.
I'm partly angry but very disappointed. I actually though he was worth more than that.
He has obviously changed and if he wants to behave like that then I'm not going to waste my time on him.
I don't know him anymore.

grrrrrrrrrrr. I'm so pissed off.

I'm sorry to say all this here but I need to get it off my chest and I'm not sure who else i can rant to at the moment!

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: Crystal
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 01:53 PM

People change, and, unfortunatly this change isn't always for the best.
Move on, you have outgrown the friendship, it happens to most of us at one time or another. You are obviously much more mature and intelligent than him, perhaps when he has grown up you can resume your relationship on an even footing, but for now just dismiss it from your mind, he's obviously not worth devoting valuble brain space to!

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 02:10 PM

AC--

Rant away! Some will respond with advice you don't need right now, but some will just listen. Go ahead and pour it out!

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: Firecat
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 04:45 PM

I think, as someone who has experienced this myself, that you need to lay down some ground rules with this guy.

Quite a lot of the lads I knew when I was 16 (I'm now 21) did boast about their sexual conquests and claimed that, cos I'm a girl, I didn't deserve any respect. I don't know if this boy is in front of his male friends when he says all this, or just with you, but I think he is trying to make himself look "tough".

As for throwing all the times you've defended him back in your face, I hate to say this, but maybe he resents you doing that. He might feel like he can't take the fact that you are acting as a "voice of reason", as it were, and cannot accept that you are worried about him.

As Crystal says, people do change throughout their lives. It is a scientific fact that males mature more slowly than females, and this one might be maturing less quickly than other males, or he might want to attempt to establish his status amongst his peers.

Whatever happens, I think it might be a good idea if you ignore this boy for a while, until he can act in a mature and adult manner.

Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: Crystal
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 05:06 PM

A vicious and unworthy dig WYSIWYG. I am unaware of having said anything to you which merits such snipeing!

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: GUEST,jeffp
Date: 28 Mar 05 - 01:38 PM

Crystal-

If she had meant you she would have called you out by name. Susan doesn't snipe.

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: GUEST,Crystal
Date: 28 Mar 05 - 02:15 PM

Tecnically sniping is a hidden thing, but I feel that it is unwarrented nastyness which has hurt me deeply!
I almost burst into tears when I read that.

Subject: RE: BS: I need friend advice
From: GUEST,WYSIWYG
Date: 28 Mar 05 - 03:18 PM

Crystal,

Mudcat's been down so you have apparently not gotten your PM yet. In brief, my PM outlined that my comment had not been directed at you at all-- in fact I had not even read your post, but responded directly to AC's.

My post was aimed at the likelihood of future posts' advicing-- and written in response to AC, whose thread this is. You see, I've been around here long enough to see what happens when someone says they just need to vent, as AC had just said. People generally need what they say they need, and it's too bad when a pile of others' experiences floods their grief process.

It was not about you, and I am sorry that when you took it personally, it hurt your feelings. However I think that you owe me an aplogy for attacking me, publicly, instead of PMing me for clarification or to protest.

As jeffp says, I don't snipe. If I had wanted to aim something at you, most likely I'd have quoted your post and responded to it to say why and how I disagreed.

I'm sorry it has to be ironed out in public-- I'd have preferred to let PMs do their job, and let this thread remain AC's. But since you persist in raising this, and in feeling badly, I thought it best to attempt to relieve your upset with the facts.

~Susan