BS: Telling someone to F... off politely

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: number 6
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 06:18 PM

Interesting story Guest.

Who knows Mr. Hendrix was proabably thrown out of club by some buffoon bouncer like Mundi

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,GUEST ( billy )
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 10:12 PM

Not interesting at all number 6, just someone being a clever Dick with an inaccurate story.

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: LadyJean
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 01:27 AM

I'd suggest ignoring this guy. I mean, serious ignoring. Leave him out of conversations. Don't talk to him. Don't notice that he's playing with you. (Well you'll notice, but pretend you don't.) He won't like being invisible, and he'll go somewhere else.

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Boab
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 02:05 AM

Sounds easy---tell the guy to **** ***! But much depends on the personality of the rookie you're dealing with. If he/she is an obvious big-head, and without any justification for wearing that outsize hat, then **** *** ! is entirely deserved and appropriate. If he just hapens to be a "young hopeful", however, and depending for his "practice" on the forbearance of the more experienced sessioneers, then it becomes , for any decent m.c., a moral dilemma. If the guy himself is decent enough he will understand the upset he causes if it is pointed out to him. If obstinacy is his reaction---then tell him to **** ***!!

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,KB
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 04:11 AM

I think the stealthy ignoring him, or stop playing when he plays, or leave the room etc are really quite unneccessarily nasty. I'd hate for that to happen to me & to have to try to figure out why - it just seems sly and childish ....
So I reckon you have to be honest with him - but it seems from your first post that you have already tried that & it failed.
So - given that you can't have an open-for-all session AND exclude someone : you either live with the situation & hope it passes/changes, or make it a closed session & tell him firmly that he is not included.

Kris

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 07:53 PM

What's his personality like? Is he an arrogant, obnoxious twat? Because killing him is an option. You can all chip in to fund a contract on him or do it yourself as it would be cheaper. Alternately why don't you show him this thread then he might commit suicide?

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Boab
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 04:33 AM

Hee-heee-hee! Hand-pulled boy---there are SOME extreme views that can be hilarious!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 04:56 AM

His problems started when he was very young

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: MudGuard
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 05:20 AM

It's a pub, so you as a guest can't really throw him out.
But then you say that you are paid by the pub owner - so you are wanted there.
Why then do you not ask your employer (a/k/a the pub owner) to throw him out? He should have the right to do it.
You could even "threaten" the pub owner that you won't come any longer when that person is not thrown out.

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,12 string stan
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 01:01 PM

Thanks for the comments, Heard a great one last night, This lad apparantly travells to a village 12 miles away on a thursday for their local session, I know the musicians, but seldom make it there, and never realised my 'friend' (Stephen's his name) participated in it, till i went last night
They, like me, are fed up of him. They unlike me are not so polite, and after an hour, he was called aside, and asked to play quieter, leave down the instruments, to no avail, and then the killer line was delivered.

"Stephen, I'm sorry but we can no longer tolerate your disruption, we are going to have to ask you to pack up you instruments and leave the session, and when you learn a bit of music, and timing, you may come back and join in no problem" Stephen replies "I am playing perfectly in time, and have as much right to sit here and play as you do" Reply? "When you get paid by a publican for your music, you can call the shots, here we call the shots, now I'm asking you to fuck off and leave us alone"

He did, He threw me a look as he packed his cases, but i was too engrossed in the wallpaper. This may give me an opening for tuesday as i know he will be down and bring it up......
Till next time.....

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: rock chick
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 03:02 AM

On a different line i felt the same recently in tellling someone to F...O.. but they knew anyway so i didnt need to say anything in the end. Athough i am quite more than capable of doing it should i need to at some point.

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 03:31 AM

Perhaps something along the lines:-

I say old man, would it be too awful an imposition if I asked you to f--- off. We've had a whip round and there's a taxi outside to the Mexican border.

or a more subtle ploy

Hands up everybody who can play tonight. Not so fast Jim......think about the wording of that question.......people who CAN play, now is that you? I thinks that's what you need to be asking yourself.

or

Jim, I know you've heard about the early days of the folk revival, when anyone could have a go...well that periods over. It finished last week last week, after your contribution to the evening.

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 06:50 AM

This week I tackled the chap who insisted on singing at our tune session. There were three other singing sessions on this night - advertised locally where he could sing as much as he could. The missing regular partcipants did turn-up this week - so the problem of his insensitive insistence in playing loudly on tunes he does not know and often in the wrong key - remains to be addressed. But he did not try to sing this week.

When he arrived (and there was only one other session member present) I was very blunt. I said " ..... you are not going to insist on singing again this week - are you"?

He was very apolgetic and provided the expected excuses for previous attempts to keep changing the nature of the session. I just pointed out that what was done - was in the past but that if he wished to sing in the future - there were other places that he would be expected to go in order to do this. I accepted his apology - and made it clear that the matter should be dropped.

As no one else seemed to be aware that anything had been said and I did not mention it - there was a bit of intitial unease between the two of but this soon cleared when a few more participants arrived, a few tunes were played and a few pints were downed....

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 09:56 AM

I AM THE MESSIAH, NOW FUCK OFF.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 11:33 AM

If you really ARE the MESSIAH, please don't be offended when I point out that you have used a comma splice.

Signed,

Mehitabel

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 03 Apr 05 - 03:59 AM

No offence taken brucie, you will answer on judgement day [ and I don't mean Arnies film ]

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Peace
Date: 03 Apr 05 - 05:24 PM

LOL

Good one Eric. Had I not known you have a great sense of humour I would not have said that.

Bruce M

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: s6k
Date: 03 Apr 05 - 05:29 PM

if you want to tell him to fuck off but politely... then the best solution is to tell him to Feck off

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: LilyFestre
Date: 03 Apr 05 - 05:56 PM

Funny thing about telling folks to F*** off politely...I think it depends where in the world you live.

I lived in Atlanta for a period of time and was always amazed how the southern women could tell you to F** off in a manner that was so lovely....almost leaving the victim wanting to say thank you. I admire that...too bad I never learned the art beyond, well bless your sweet little heart.........

From my college roommate, who grew up in the Bronx, she would smile this smile that told me to get out of her way....no words needed. Other times she would tell folks directly to their face to shove a splintery telephone pole up their ass sideways...then she'd walk away. Usually mouths were left hanging wide open.....

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Apr 05 - 07:49 PM

I have been considering this further. I have decided that teling people they cannot sing at a tune session is wholly unacceptable, as would be telling people they cannot play a tune at a song event. It is arrogance of an almost breathtaking kind.

I am also considering the mirror image, of the people who think they are so good that they don't want anyone else to join in (or play in their interval), but who, despite some considerable technical meretriciousness, have no soul, and, as a drummer friend of mine used to say, could not swing with a rope around their neck. On balance I am more likely to react adversely to those who think they are too good for others to be able to play with them.

Not that I often line up with organised religion, but something about casting out the beam that is in one's own eye comes to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 03 Apr 05 - 08:46 PM

I'm in complete disagreement with you Richard. I don't care whether a session is purely instrumental, purely singing or some mix. I don't care whether a session is purely Irish, purely English, etc. or some mix. What I think is great is that the variety of options there are and that each session is different.

I feel it the height of ignorance and arrogance to muscle in on other peoples' sessions as a newcomer and start making demands like "this session should allow songs", etc. If they are good enough to welcome you in to thier session, I think the least you can do is try to fit in with the way they have been enjoying a session and quite possibly playing together for years.

On balance I am more likely to react adversely to those who think they are too good for others to be able to play with them.

I've not met many like that. Most people I've come accross do not worry about who is better than who. The problems tend to come in when someone plays loudly and makes mistakes like playing out of time - one can usualy cope if they play quietly. One "musician" can ruin a session for everyone. Have you for example ever tried playing with the type of bodhran "player" that gets the instrument such a bad name?

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: LilyFestre
Date: 03 Apr 05 - 10:14 PM

Hey Jon....have I got a session for you....they are mighty cold folks who welcome few to none, although they advertise that it's an open jam and all are welcome to join in or sit and listen. They don't mind the listeners but most definately are NOT welcoming to those who wish to play. It's a complete turn off for many in the community who might otherwise join them. Too bad. Their loss.

Michelle

PS. I'm glad to hear that the attitude of being above others is NOT the norm!

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 04:28 AM

I've never understood a lot of comments about hostile sessions, Michelle, as I have had few problems and it isn't because I'm a great player because I'm not - there are much better players than me in just about every session I go to...

My favourite session round here doesn't have the best of reputations and some will have it that it is snobbish or elitist but I was welcomed when I first went there I guess about 4 years ago. I suppose its fair to say that it is not a beginners' session (by that I mean maybe they would slow a couple of tunes down for someone starting to learn but generally speaking tunes run at a reasonable "danceable" pace) and it contains some excellent players but that is about it.

I do wonder at times whether people sometimes alienate themselves (eg. demanding a song in a purely instrumental session or perhaps demonstrating to everyone how "good" they are - "showing off" is not always appreciated) or expect too much of a welcome at once.

I say I was welcomed (as I was) but it took time. The first week, probably the most encouraging sign was that I was shown no hostility and people did say "hello" and "goodnight", the second week, they got me to start a couple of tunes a bit more conversation, and things built up gradually until these people became good friends. I'd not been able to get to a session since Christmas until last week and I was greeted to hugs and handshakes and even got a ticking off from one because I had arrived without my banjo.

I think what I'm trying to say is I think at times you do have to remember that you are a newcomer in an estabished group (in this case, some have known each other for more than 20 years) and they might be as nervous of you as you are of them. Had I read the first week as "well noone really said much to me and they didn't go 'wow we have a new player'" and decided that meant I wasn't really wanted, I'd have missed out on good music and good company.

I suppose ideally it is better if people are made to feel that little bit more wanted from day one but on top of everything else I said, I don't think all sessions contain the sort of extrovert character to do that.

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 05:15 AM

I have suffered at the hands of such individuals, agree amongst yourselves that when he joins in each and every person stops playing leaving him to carry on. Indicate (politely)to him that you cannot follow his rythym and that if he wishes to continue he can do so alone. Hopefully he may quickly get the message, otherwise the direct approach which you are trying to avoid may have to be resorted to in order to maintain the session, sadly you will lose more people by not taking the direct approach as others will drift away

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 06:16 AM

I have been considering this further. I have decided that teling people they cannot sing at a tune session is wholly unacceptable, as would be telling people they cannot play a tune at a song event. It is arrogance of an almost breathtaking kind.

I think it is arrogance of a breathtaking kind - to place other people in the position of feeling that they have a choice to either spell-out - what is blindingly obvious - or be imposed upon.

If you had a pub with limited space - it may be convention that on certain nights the pool table was used and on others that it would be covered-up to allow darts to be played in the same area.

It would be arrogance of a breathtaking kind for someone - in full knowledge of this convention - to arrive and insist on un-covering the pool table to play pool - when the rest of people present attended on the understanding that it was a darts night.

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 06:51 AM

It is also breathtakingly arrogant to join in with someone and bugger up their performance. Either the person in question lacks a degree of awareness or he couldn't give a monkeys. If the former he needs to be advised of the unwritten etiquette the majority adhere to or, if the latter, he needs to be told to go away ... in short jerky movements if necessary

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Deni-C
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 07:24 AM

In our folk club we had a slip with a few pointers of etiquette on them. If someone gets a bit too much you can just pass them a slip and ask them to have a read. Some people just don't take hints. Sounds like this chap might be one of them.
Cheers
Deni

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 08:06 AM

Speaking as both singer of songs and a tune player - I would never presume to change the obvious nature of a session and would expect not to very popular - if I did. The object is surely to contribute to and enhance the tune session - not to star in it - or change it?

There is is a more arrogance displayed in being perfectly aware of the convention that this particlar event is not for singing - and flying in the face of this convention - by not only only insisting that one song won't hurt - but by further making the assumption that they alone should be the singer of this single song.

The folk who still insist on singing at a tune session - appear to do it in the expectation of everyone else stopping to listen to them - and of receiving applause. Perhaps their singing would not receive the same attention - (mainly as a novelty to wall-to-wall tunes - and stand-out) - if they were singing along with other singers at a song session?

Perhaps this is the main reason some singers will still insist on flouting convention and imposing their singing on a tune session and of excusing this arrogance?

Do they not accept that there may be many others who may also wish to sing a song at a tune session - but do not do so - as they are respecting the convention and each other? Surely if it is accepted by the determined singer that there will be limited time for any singing - it should be accepted that it is better for no one to sing?

I am always amazed when this arrogance is displayed and a song is imposed by the singer upon the members of a tune session. For very rarely have I witnessed any reciprocal rudeness. Perhaps this undeserved politeness is mistakenly excused for approval and acceptance?

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 09:00 AM

I think it is true that singers sometimes do forget that quite a few people in purely instrumental sessions do also sing. I think out of our regular core of say 12, I've heard 4 (or 5 if you count me) sing in other settings and it's quite possible that out of the remainder there are other singers.

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 09:02 AM

And on 2 seconds more thought I've just remembered hearing one other singing. So we are up to 50% already...

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: LilyFestre
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 09:08 AM

Hey Jon,

I'd PM you but you are signed in as a Guest and do you have any idea how many Jon's there are in the list to pick from? LOL

   In any case, I just wanted to mention that the particular group I was speaking of is cold to most new folks. I only went the one time but I have heard from others that the type of behavior I observed was typical. I arrived early at the jam and went in to inquire about what kind of music they played, etc. I didn't even take my instrument in the building. The attitude I received was snotty and incredibly unwelcoming. I did not ask to lead any songs or anything like that at all. I hadn't even told these people what instrument I play. I decided that maybe they were having an off day and decided to sit and listen. I'm not interested in showing off or running the show...I just wanted to play.

    I'm a bit shy around new folks so I thought perhaps it was me...but having heard others having the same experience, I'm sure it is just as cliquey as I felt it to be.

   I have attended other jams in the area. One of them was open to EVERYBODY and if it was your first time playing or your 10,001st time playing, the people were encouraging and we usually had a grand time. The easier songs were played earlier in the evening and then progressed as the night went on. If there was something you couldn't play, didn't know or were just plain tired of playing, that was fine too. It was informal and fun.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 10:10 AM

Hmm Michelle, I can't see why they should want to be snotty with you for asking a perfectly reasonable question... From what you have said, I can only assume this particular group are not worthy of your company. Glad you have found better places.

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 11:44 AM

Funny thing is that it mainly seems to be the music sessions that object to singing, not vice versa.

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 12:11 PM

Richard, in a mostly instrumental session, songs are often solos and tunes are generally for all to join in with. Also, singers tend to need/demand a greater degree of silence than musicians. I don't mind and sometimes enjoy the occasional song in that type of situation and sometimes even give a song myself.

That said there is a limit to how many times people who have come primarily to play music together want to shut up and listen. Apart from anything else, it can break the flow of a session. In my experience, a group of a dozen or more musicians rarely get really together until a few sets of tunes have been played and if you are stopping and starting for singers every other set of tunes, the evening may never get into full flow.

As I said, my own choice is to have a few songs - maybe 3 or 4 in an evening (unless it's a late night and too much beer has been consumed... when maybe there is room for more singing...) but I can understand why some instrumental sessions prefer just to have no singing.

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: mooman
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 12:29 PM

Richard,

Not in my experience!

Richard

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 07:24 PM

Funny thing is that it mainly seems to be the music sessions that object to singing, not vice versa.

And for the very good reasons already given........

However, it also seems that tunes sessions are the only ones that are forced to be placed in the position of having to object.

As I say - few tune session particpants do object. But that does not make the practice of insisting on flouting the convention - the correct or the polite thing to do.

When you attend a song session - you accept that you will be part of an audience - rather than a participant - for most of the evening - waiting for your turn to lead a song (except for joining in the chorus).

When you attend a song session - you expect that you will not be part of an audience at all - but a participant for most of the evening.

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Apr 05 - 09:48 AM

DUH!!!

It should read.......

When you attend a song session - you accept that you will be part of an audience - rather than a participant - for most of the evening - waiting for your turn to lead a song (except for joining in the chorus).

When you attend a TUNE session - you expect that you will not be part of an audience at all - but a participant for most of the evening.

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Apr 05 - 07:11 PM

Not so. Most song sessions welcome participation, instrumental or vocal.

Self-aggrandising diddlers, enjoy the ghetto you are building for yourselves. May you never accept that someone else might be just as good as you are. How else could you stay pure?

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 05 Apr 05 - 08:18 PM

I know of song sessions that discourage and/or don't allow instruments... due to folks' experiences with inconsiderate instrumentalists, such as:

• the one who starts noodling about on their instrument as soon as a song finishes, pre-empting anyone else from having a go (also mentioned by Guest on 27 March)

• the one who enthusiastically "accompanies" the singers – in a different key...

• the one who accompanies – in the right key, but doesn't pay attention to the tempo set by the person singing the song; you can generally cope with one person singing at a slightly different tempo, but an instrument is overpowering enough that everyone ends up at the same tempo as the instrument, whether they wished to or not...

Richard, I'm surprised that you consider it arrogant for a group to decide whether they want their session to involve singing or jamming only (or both). I confess that I think it's entirely reasonable. Heck, you don't go to a Def Leppard concert and say "I want to hear some Cole Porter. Why won't you play "Begin the Beguine?" would it be arrogant for them to say 'You can bloody forget the Beguine, and no, we won't be letting you sing "My Heart Belongs to Daddy" during the interval, either...'?

It's not "singers" or "instrumentalists" who are arrogant, of course; there are always folks – of every persuasion – who are insensitive/oblivious and/or arrogant and who – consciously or not – impose upon others unless boundaries are set. I don't consider it arrogant to set boundaries, nor to say "This behaviour is extremely disruptive to the group and will not be permitted"; what is arrogant is to assume that clearly-defined boundaries do not apply to oneself. On the other hand, it is certainly arrogant/unfair to apply whatever limits exist in a selective manner – say, because you like this person more than that other person. But I don't get the impression that that is what's happening in the situations above – or if it is, it's in the opposite direction; the limits are being unequally applied because individuals who (by all accounts) should know better are ignoring them, while the rest of the group self-regulates/follows the "rules".

Just my 2p...

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Apr 05 - 06:55 AM

The issue is about mutual respect and can only be addressed by the application of mutual respect - not by groundless prejudice and name-callng.

The very best sessions that I have attended were mixed affairs where no form of music- making was inhibited. These fine affairs usually occur at festivals or at one-off happenings - when mainly strangers find themselves in group and making music together.

I don't think the mixed session - with largely the same participants - really ever works on a regular basis.

It is not that one is better that the other - or make any claim to be - it is just that the object of the execise is different. One is a series of perfomances (to some form of audience) and the other is the involvement of all present - in one big performance.

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Hawker
Date: 06 Apr 05 - 06:19 PM

So 12 string stan, tell us, did he show at your session on Tuesday? did he say anything? Did you? did he 'play'? come on! the suspense is killing us!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers, Lucy

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Alba
Date: 06 Apr 05 - 07:32 PM

Yeah 12 String....how did it go???
It's a nail bitter:>)


The Scene- A Session in a Pub. Musicians sitting around chatting preparing to begin their Weekly session..
The Door opens. A young man enters the Bar loaded down with various Instruments.
At the table the Musicians see the Young man and groan and whisper "oh no it's him again" .."oh I can't believe it he has Bagpipes with him this week"
The Young man comes across the Bar and sits down at the Session table...suddenly.... Stan the Man leans across and says to the Young man..........

Come on Stan, what went down...lol
Blessings
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 06:25 AM

As this thread is clearly music-related and has stubbonly remained so - perhaps (with its originator's consent) it deserves to be promoted out of the B/S section?

There, it will I am sure - be of interest to many more posters who would not think to look for music-related threads - like this one - below the line and do not even venture into these murky waters.........

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: mooman
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 09:13 AM

Stan's failure to appear has me a bit worried...

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 12:15 PM

Well, I'll drink to that - mutual respect 'n' all

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: gnu
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 01:57 PM

Off topic a bit... I recall the late Pierre Elliot Trudeau dealing with a rather persistant heckler one time. He finally invited the young man to approach the dais, leaned over to him and, covering his mouth from view, said something. The young man fell silent.

Later, when asked by the press what he had said, Trudeau replied something like (memory fails me), "I simply spoke to him in a language I knew he would undertsand." Of course, the fact was that whatever he said, he could back up, and did on more than one occasion.

Now, back to the scrap, er, session. What HAPPENED?

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 02:04 PM

Gettin mighty close to 100!

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 02:30 PM

Very Close....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 02:31 PM

I can't resist.....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 02:31 PM

YAYYYYY!!!!

I got a ton!!

LTS