BS: Help for Mudcat Conservatives

Subject: BS: Help for Mudcat Conservatives
From: saulgoldie
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 11:19 AM

Step one, and probably the most important step:
Take that stick outta yer butt.

Step two: recognize that the other (human) citizens of this Earth are your brothers and sisters, and that it is better for all individuals and more effective for societies for you to cooperate with them then try to dominate them.

Step three: After reading step two, you need to take that stick back outta your butt!

Step four: Recognize that we humans are citizens of this Earth just as are all the other species, and that we live interdependently. If one of us donimates another so successfully that we "win" we *all* lose.

Step five: After reading step four, you need to take that stick back outta your butt, again! (This time, try not to keep putting it back in!)

Step six: Where to continue beginning?!! You have so much of your world view so wrong.

No doubt, other Catters have their own steps...

Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: kendall
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 11:26 AM

Next step, look up LIBERAL in the dictionary and tell yourself it's bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 11:56 AM

It's funny, and I do know people to whom it would apply, but I do not think of them as "conservatives." I see them as much the same way I see their "liberal" counterparts-- people whose thinking process is basically just too rigid to effect their own goals. Guess that's why I tend to get along with thinking people of almost any stripe.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 12:13 PM

Incontravertible facts may not prove a particular proposition but to call the facts themselves a conspiracy theory is to lie to oneself and descend into a labyrinth of denial from which few escape.

You can lie to others and think you're clever or correct. But once you lie to yourself you are just another lost marketing rep looking for a sale without any consideration of soul.

Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: kendall
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 12:24 PM

I find that it's WHAT they are thinking that makes me agree or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 12:39 PM

Kendall,

Well, yeah, obviously-- to agree or disagree with the position or the facts, or whatever. But THAT they appear to be thinking (and flexibly) often is what leads me even to listen. Rigid reactivity-- I don't have time for that, because I know from long experience that "discussing" with that mindset is like heading into a black hole. I don't find I can learn much from that mindset, either, no matter what their personal position may be.

Just my mileage.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: Peace
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 12:49 PM

There is no help for Conservatives, and that means there is no help for the rest of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: Amos
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 01:38 PM

I think, of course, that these labels have been scurrilously compromised. A conservative by definition is someone who seeks to preserve or conserve the current ways of doing business, which is usually translated as fostering business interests, while a liberal focuses their attention or issues of individual freedom and social mechanisms that will increase the opportunity available to individuals.

In the course of politics since the Clinton administration, venom and divisiveness have been entered into the American political field in amounts not seen since the bitter campaigns of the nineteenth century, when fisticuffs and bullying at the polls was an ordinary event.

But the insanity of process perversion has reached new heights in the last couple of decades; a civil war of verbal harangues, rhetoric, ad hominem abuse and windy, circular rhetoric has grown up in the land. People who once argued issues have taken on the demeanor of Rottweilers in both camps; I have succumbed to the urge myself, when discussing that bow-legged SOB in the Oval Orifice, to abandon analysis, irked beyond measure by the endless waves of twisted PR and bald falsehoods in support of an agenda I don't like in the first place. Of course, it is always easy to blame.

The real help Mudcat Conservatives need is in clarifying their core ideas, and why they think they are of value to the social matrix. They are easily stirred to broad, sweeping condemnations, and even scurrilous obscenities aimed at attacking persons instead of addressing the opinions offered. This lack of respect for the opinions of others is the first tragedy of polemic and false PR. You can't debate opinions in a field of falsified facts, really.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: John Hardly
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 01:57 PM

Gee, Amos, you were doing so well until your last paragraph wherein you claim to be describing only the conservatives here. Here, I'll see if I can't help you out...

The real help Mudcat Liberals need is in clarifying their core ideas, and why they think they are of value to the social matrix. They are easily stirred to broad, sweeping condemnations, and even scurrilous obscenities aimed at attacking persons instead of addressing the opinions offered. This lack of respect for the opinions of others is the first tragedy of polemic and false PR. You can't debate opinions in a field of falsified facts, really.

Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: Amos
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 02:13 PM

Aw, John, that was a cheap shot. I only wrote it that way to tie it to the theme of the thread. Obviously, people with unclear ideas need help no matter where they are on the spectrum.

I just happen to have seen more and bigger lies from the right side of the spectrum than I have from the left. I know, for my own part, why I think my core ideas are of value. Hell, I have over two hundred years of discourse to draw from, echoing the sentiments of Jefferson, Paine, Adams and occasionally even that reprobate Hamilton! :)

A

Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 02:14 PM

saulgoldie, I once told a very rigid and controling relative of mine to take that stick out of his butt...

He said (rather emphatically), "It belongs there!"

;-)

(That is a true story)

Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: Cllr
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 02:20 PM

Im a conservative and you take your post and stick it up your but where it belongs, Cllr (you may not have said what your own leanings are but as I have a great deal of respect for the mudcatters of differing political position to my own I assume you are simply an idiot)

Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: Cllr
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 02:24 PM

And this thread is started by the the same person who wrote this"
Who needs labels, anyway? (Or "rubbish" threads, for that matter.) Labels don't contribute to the discourse process of finding a greater truth. They only divide people and distract from the points that need to be argued. Do you support/oppose "X" or "Y" and what are your reasons is what matters. "

It just has to be a merkin
Cllr(uk conservative)

Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 02:43 PM

Whatsa merkin?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: Peace
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 02:47 PM

See that real bright spot?

I don't think that's a merkin.

Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 02:53 PM

Forbidden
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Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 02:54 PM

A merkin is An American?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: saulgoldie
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 03:20 PM

Oh, like "murican" only spoken faster.

Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: Amos
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 03:45 PM

Merkin (first use, according to the OED, 1617) is reported to be a pubic wig, worn by prostitutes after shaving their genitalia to eliminate lice or to disguise the marks of syphilis. A similar, though anachronistic, claim not made in OED is that merkins were worn for nude stage appearances. The narrator of Vladimir Nabokov's Lolita (1955) recalls "Although I told myself I was looking merely for a soothing presence, a glorified pot-au-feu, an animated merkin, what really attracted me to Valeri was the imitation she gave of a little girl."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkin

Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: John Hardly
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 04:12 PM

Lassie (in the TV series)wore a merkin to hide the fact that he was, in fact, a dog actor playing a bitch. I am not making this up.

Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 07:19 PM

John, although I don't like political threads much these days, I've enjoyed reading your posts. I'm definitely aimed toward the liberal side of things, but your respectful posts make me think more than react. I'm tired of the hatred I feel here sometimes. Thanks for being different. I really wish you hadn't said that about Lassie, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: John Hardly
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 07:26 PM

Sorry Jeri, You mean you wish that I hadn't let the cat out of the bag (so to speak) that a dog (male) actually played the part? ...or that I referred to a female dog that way?

If the former, I can only apologize for bursting a hollywood illusion. And I apologize to little Timmy too.

If the latter, I can only plead being too deeply entrenched in the dog world. My wife has been doing some serious dog competition for the past ten years, both obedience and agility. In the dog world it is the rule, not the exception that female dogs are refered to that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 07:57 PM

"Bitch" doesn't bother me when used appropriately - or otherwise, for that matter. I knew Lassie was a drag queen, I just didn't know that there were props involved. I should have guessed.

It probably wasn't meant that way, but the first post is actually pretty funny, if you like irony.

Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 07:59 PM

An interesting blog:

"What exactly is a "merkin"? Ever since the word was thrust into my consciousness it's been tormenting me. My Oxford English Dictionary defines it as the "female pudendum," which seems a trifle sedate, given the listed quote of 1714, "This put a strange Whim in his Head; which was, to get the hairy circle of her Merkin ... This he dry'd well and comb'd out, and then return'd to the Cardinal, telling him, he had brought Saint Peter's Beard."

"And it's downhill from there. The OED "b" definition says a merkin is a "counterfeit hair for women's privy parts," and another dictionary calls it a "pubic hair wig." Sorry, but these explanations defy understanding. I mean, I've heard of niche markets, but this is ridiculous. My own interest in the word isn't just academic, as I'd like to make use of the fine quote of 1680, "Or wear some stinking Merkin for a Beard," but I want to make damn sure I know what the original item was. --Andrew Scheinman, Los Angeles"

And It Goes On From There

Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 08:19 PM

Hey, I don't have any problems with the conservatives in Mudville but must say that doesn't go fir the Bushite radicals...

Actually, truth be known, I think myself way more conservative than most of the folks here who may *think* they are conservatives. They are not in any way, shape or form... They are brainwashed brownshirts ready to collect anyone at any time for any perceived disagreement with Karl Rove and his puppet, Bush... I have no respect for *any* of them because they have lost all abilities to think... They agree with Bush 100% of the time!!! That ain't independent thought, folks. That is being brainwashed!!!

And fir those of you who I am speaking of, you oughtta recognize yerselves even if you are incapable of doing anything about it...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Help fof Mudcat Conservatives
From: kendall
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 08:21 PM

It's true about Lassie. It's also true that the world famous Lippzan stallions are all mares or geldings.
es.

Subject: RE: BS: Help for Mudcat Conservatives
From: Cllr
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 03:49 AM

merkin or bush, Whats the difference? cllr *ducks and runs*

Subject: RE: BS: Help for Mudcat Conservatives
From: Amos
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 08:06 AM

All bushes want to be considered merkins, but not all merkins are bushes. For this we can be profoundly grateful.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Help for Mudcat Conservatives
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 10:02 AM

Always check Mudcat first: MERKIN

But if all else fails: MERKIN:(Noun) An American. A pun on the word American sounding similar to a merkin. From the s.e. merkin, a pubic wig. Derog.

"Har!" indeed.

: ~ (

~Susan