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Folk artists who are pagan

DigiTrad:
ALLSOULS NIGHT
LORD OF THE DANCE (PAGAN)
O, SAVE US FROM FAUX PAGANS (Or, Observations at a Renaissance Faire)


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In Mudcat MIDIs:
Heretic Heart [Catherine Madsen]


open mike 26 Apr 05 - 01:38 AM
Dave Hanson 26 Apr 05 - 02:35 AM
GUEST,MBSLynne 26 Apr 05 - 02:51 AM
treewind 26 Apr 05 - 04:03 AM
MBSLynne 26 Apr 05 - 05:17 AM
GUEST,Dáithí Ó Geanainn 26 Apr 05 - 05:37 AM
GUEST,Cats 26 Apr 05 - 05:40 AM
Micca 26 Apr 05 - 06:53 AM
Micca 26 Apr 05 - 06:56 AM
Dipsodeb 26 Apr 05 - 08:06 AM
Mrs_Annie 26 Apr 05 - 08:10 AM
GUEST 26 Apr 05 - 08:19 AM
GUEST 26 Apr 05 - 08:25 AM
GUEST 26 Apr 05 - 08:43 AM
treewind 26 Apr 05 - 08:52 AM
Barbara 26 Apr 05 - 09:07 AM
Blackcatter 26 Apr 05 - 09:31 AM
Emma B 26 Apr 05 - 09:34 AM
open mike 26 Apr 05 - 01:12 PM
Haruo 26 Apr 05 - 01:23 PM
treewind 26 Apr 05 - 01:39 PM
PoppaGator 26 Apr 05 - 01:42 PM
GUEST,26 Apr 05 - 08:25 AM 26 Apr 05 - 03:03 PM
GUEST,26 Apr 05 - 03:03 PM 26 Apr 05 - 03:13 PM
Schwa 26 Apr 05 - 03:29 PM
fat B****rd 26 Apr 05 - 03:37 PM
MBSLynne 26 Apr 05 - 04:08 PM
GUEST,Susan Urban 26 Apr 05 - 04:29 PM
Haruo 26 Apr 05 - 04:30 PM
Herga Kitty 26 Apr 05 - 04:43 PM
Blackcatter 26 Apr 05 - 04:45 PM
Blissfully Ignorant 26 Apr 05 - 04:47 PM
My guru always said 26 Apr 05 - 05:18 PM
Polly Squeezebox 26 Apr 05 - 06:01 PM
open mike 26 Apr 05 - 11:55 PM
Dave Hanson 27 Apr 05 - 04:24 AM
Liz the Squeak 27 Apr 05 - 04:44 AM
GUEST,Nellie Clatt 27 Apr 05 - 05:20 AM
MBSLynne 27 Apr 05 - 07:23 AM
Blackcatter 27 Apr 05 - 09:36 AM
GUEST 27 Apr 05 - 09:54 AM
Polly Squeezebox 27 Apr 05 - 04:27 PM
mandoleer 27 Apr 05 - 04:27 PM
Blackcatter 27 Apr 05 - 10:57 PM
coldjam 27 Apr 05 - 11:43 PM
Barbara 27 Apr 05 - 11:57 PM
Amos 28 Apr 05 - 01:38 AM
GUEST 28 Apr 05 - 08:07 AM
Blackcatter 28 Apr 05 - 09:41 AM
Barbara 28 Apr 05 - 12:30 PM
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Subject: Folk artists who are pagan
From: open mike
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 01:38 AM

just wondering....


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 02:35 AM

I' a carnivorous atheist, is that any good ?

eric


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,MBSLynne
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 02:51 AM

Well I know what you mean by Pagan, and yes, I am one. Not sure what you mean by Folk artist though.....

Love Lynne


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: treewind
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:03 AM

"pagan" with a small p, me. Sufficiently so to have declared myself as such on the last census.

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: MBSLynne
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 05:17 AM

Me too.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,Dáithí Ó Geanainn
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 05:37 AM

Me too. Wiccan as it happens
BB D


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,Cats
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 05:40 AM

Jon and I


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Micca
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 06:53 AM

Me too,


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Micca
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 06:56 AM

Yeah, I know before someone jumps in,Hardly an Folk Artist, more a peace artist, but I write songs! but there are a LOT of pagans in Folk,


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Dipsodeb
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 08:06 AM

Yes I am too, as declared on the last census. But unfortunately cannot lay claim to the Folk Artist part... Just love Folk and music ;-)
~Debs~


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Mrs_Annie
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 08:10 AM

Debs, exactly the same for me - pagan, just love Folk and music, haven't yet learned to play anything (am I too old at 54?)

Anne


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 08:19 AM

Heathen, not pagan. Does that count? And I'm guessing everyone affiliated with filk has heathen/pagan leanings.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 08:25 AM

For the sake of argument, I'm guessing people are describing themselves as pagan, who would more correctly be described as this:

Main Entry: neo-pa·gan
Pronunciation: -'pA-g&n
Function: noun
: a person who practices a contemporary form of paganism (as Wicca)
- neo-pagan adjective
- neo-pa·gan·ism /-'pA-g&-"ni-z&m/ noun

As opposed to this:

Main Entry: pa·gan
Pronunciation: 'pA-g&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin paganus, from Latin, civilian, country dweller, from pagus country district; akin to Latin pangere to fix -- more at PACT
1 : HEATHEN 1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)
2 : one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person
3 : NEO-PAGAN

And just to be really pedantic, the above definitions are the reason I prefer to describe myself as this:

Main Entry: 2heathen
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural heathens or heathen
1 : an unconverted member of a people or nation that does not acknowledge the God of the Bible
2 : an uncivilized or irreligious person


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 08:43 AM

Anahata, you must be British I'm guessing, as the US census doesn't ask the 'R' question ('tis illegal to do so).


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: treewind
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 08:52 AM

"one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods"

That's a very interesting and restrictive combination that says more about the person who wrote the dictionary than about the meaning of paganism or any other religion.

"Little or no religion" - I suspect a narrow understanding of the term "religion" here...

"delights in sensual pleasures" - what wrong with this? The converse is by definition impossible. As long as it doesn't control your life or harm others I find nothing objectionable to anyone enjoying and appreciating the pleasures that life has to offer and there's no reason for it to be incompatible with religion. Anyway all musicians are inherently in the business of enjoying and exploiting at least one sensual pleasure.

"material goods" - why does that have to be lumped together with "sensual pleasures"?

Rhetorical questions, I know...
Anahata


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Barbara
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 09:07 AM

Some of her songs make it sound like Eliza Gilkyson is pagan.
Blessings,
Barbara


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Blackcatter
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 09:31 AM

I'm Pagan, and a folk artist.

And isn't it interesting that non-Pagans are always trying to define the words we use to define ourselves?

As for "Neo-Pagan" - yes, technically, we mostly probably are - but please get over the need to put the "neo" on it. I've been Pagan for 15+ years and have very rarely heard anyone describe themselves as Neo-Pagan. Think how silly the term actually is:

Are Protestants "Neo-Christians?"
Reformed Jews "Neo-Jews?"
Folk musicians who play current stuff "Neo-Folkies?"


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Emma B
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 09:34 AM

Pan? - nice piper........


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: open mike
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 01:12 PM

now what's the difference between heathen and pagan?
and if you use a term that assumes you mean heretic,
or non-believer does it have to come complete with
judgemental over tones or under tones?

and no - it is never too late to learn...i have an
80 year old friend who has just taken up mandolin!

perhaps i am a neo-theist?
neo-agnostic?


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Haruo
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 01:23 PM

infidel?

Haruo
Liberal Baptist (neo-Christian)


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: treewind
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 01:39 PM

I just found (via Google) a range of definitions for heathen and pagan, including one that said they were basically the same thing, but to me heathen is a derogatory term used by Christians implying that if you aren't Christian then you don't have any religion, wheras paganism is definitely a religion in its own right even though it takes many forms in different parts of the world.

It was a real revelation to me when I discovered that what witches practice is a religion, not previously having known much about the subject.

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: PoppaGator
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 01:42 PM

Pagans are not, as I understand it, "nonbelievers" or athiests ~ they are definitely believers, perhaps (but not necessarily) polythiests. Not to be equated with "heathens."

Am I a folk artist who am pagan? My answers are: yes-and-no.

"No" answers first:

I'm not a "folk artist," not really: folk (and blues, and rock, and jazz) hobbyist, yes. And I'm not a member of any pagan group, neo- or otherwise, and I don't use any of that neo-pagan terminology (e.g., my wife and I got married, not "handfasted," etc.)

And then on the other hand, my "yes" answers:

I definitely believe in something beyond human understanding, and I don't believe that any of the clearly-defined concepts of God served up by the various major religions are adequate. Paganism's spiritual appreciation of creation as manifestation of the "Creator" or the "Life Force" or whatever makes lots of sense to me.

And as far as being an artist goes: I may not be a professional performer anymore (and may not have been pazrticularly successful during the years when I gave it a shot), but hell yes, I'm an artist ~ in everything I do!


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,26 Apr 05 - 08:25 AM
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 03:03 PM

I guess I tetched a nerve with those Merriam Webster definitions.

I define myself as heathen because:

a) I don't believe in a/the Christian god;
b) I don't believe in the Bible;
c) I am irreligious.

In other words, I don't "believe in" what pagans/neo-pagans believe in, including Wicca, New Age stuff, etc.

I do believe a whole lot more is happening in the universe than I can possibly comprehend, but I also don't spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about it.

I have no problem with being sensual either.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,26 Apr 05 - 03:03 PM
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 03:13 PM

And I wasn't being judgmental--just playing the game of "labelling what I am". I am an artist, but I wouldn't label myself as a "folk" artist, as I find the word folk to be much too limiting.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Schwa
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 03:29 PM

Aren't all pagans anorexic? Whoops, sorry wrong thread!!


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: fat B****rd
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 03:37 PM

I think I'm paganostic.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: MBSLynne
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:08 PM

One of the things that many Pagan's believe is that "All acts of love and joy are gifts of the Godess" so that covers the delighting in sensual pleasures bit...

Love Lynne


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,Susan Urban
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:29 PM

I define myself these days as a Unitarian Universalist Humano-Pagan.

And yes, I believe, from The Charge of the Goddess, that "all acts of love and pleasure are her rituals," although I prefer to think of the divine as masculine, feminine and/or neither as it manifests itself in all of its different aspects. A friend of mine came up with a term for this that I feel comfortable with - "The Great Whatever."

And I also define my activity as a folk artist as "Literary Songwriter," meaning that I write songs in the older folk tradition of looking out at the world, rather than only inside myself, for the stories and situations in my songs (if you don't get it, think of Harry Chapin, Steve Goodman, Malvina Reynolds, Tom Paxton). Many of my songs are what I would consider Pagan, that is, they speak of the oneness of all and the importance of our connection with the natural world and each other.

I often conduct music-based services for Unitarian Univeralist churches that focus on Pagan holidays, such as Winter and Summer Solstice, Spring and Autumnal Equinox, Lammas and Imbolc - although I have many other musical UU services, two of which are on the Beatles and Janis Joplin. And there are a number of wonderful musicians who work with me on these services, such as Sandy Andina, Phil Cooper, Kate Early, Karen Mooney, Kathryn & Caitlin Morski, and Ingrid Frances Stark. Some of these folks would define themselves as Pagan, some as just having Pagan leanings, but they sure wouldn't participate in the services if they didn't have those leanings.

So yes, as a young man I met taking tickets in the Kansas City Airport who happened to be wearing a Pentagram, "we are everywhere."


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Haruo
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:30 PM

Etymologically, both pagan and heathen mean "rural"; "pagan" is "of the country(side)", cognate with Italian "paisano" and less erudite English "peasant". Heathen, on the other hand, is from an Indo-European root meaning "forest, untilled land". Looks to me like this means "heathens" are less civilized than "pagans", though along a shared line leading away from us* urban believers.

Haruo
*"us" here refers to the folks who coined the terms, not you and/or me


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:43 PM

We were vegans and pagans from the day we were born
Nurtured on soya milk, fruit, veg and Quorn
We've never worn leather or feathers or fur
So we freeze while the amoral heathens prosper


(Sorry)

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Blackcatter
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:45 PM

Also remember that people use the terms to define themselves. People may not like that, but that's the way it goes. Many people who follow Norse/Teutonic religions such as Asatru call themselves Pagan. I don't fully understand why, as the two I know who do so seem to do so merely to seperate themselves religiously from the Wicca-based Pagans with which they are friends. I don't know if this the the sole reason.

I am a Unitairan Universalist Pagan Athiest. And no, I won't bother defining that for you. I've described myself at Mudcat more than once, so feel free to do a search.

Blackcatter


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:47 PM

I'm an agnostic. I think.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: My guru always said
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 05:18 PM

Reckon I must be a Bitsa.... Never tried to label myself, just believe in the power of good / life / fate / nature & music. Oh, and Real Ale *grin*


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Polly Squeezebox
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 06:01 PM

I hate labelling - but I guess I'll own this one, the path I follow usually being described by me as Celtic Paganism. I do tend to empathize with the leanings of other spiritualities though - particularly Buddhism. I prefer to think that it does not matter which path you take up the mountain, just so long as you reach the summit eventually. Some people are happier following a longer circuitous route - whilst others (like true peak baggers) go by a more strenuous uphill and direct route - horses for courses. Wouldn't it be boring if we were all the same!

Bright Blessings,

Polly.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: open mike
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 11:55 PM

i started this thread as a play on words, mostly.
although Vegan and pagan usually do not rhyme..
Veeegan and Paaagan.

but i am glad that so many have posted their
ideas and ideals here.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 04:24 AM

Is this thread really relavent to anything ?

eric


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 04:44 AM

Not really Eric, but it's given us a good discussion about semantics and brings a lot of insight into some of the songs people write or perform.

I'm Christian. I've got a lot of friends who are not. Apart from one or two differences, basically the tennents are the same... the major ones being 'harm no-one' and 'do unto others as you would be done by'.

I don't sing exclusively Christian songs, but neither do I omit 'pagan' songs. If I felt it was right, I'd do 'The Burning Times' just as if I felt it were right, I'd do 'Christ is my strength and refuge' (it goes to the Dambusters march). Mostly I do songs about life, and all religion is about life or afterlife.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,Nellie Clatt
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 05:20 AM

Now that's a good attitude Liz.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: MBSLynne
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 07:23 AM

Fortunately, it's one that a lot of folkies take, no matter what their religious beliefs, or lack of them. I'm Pagan and I agree with every word Liz said

Love Lynne


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Blackcatter
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 09:36 AM

As is often heard in Pagan and other non-Christian circles: If only more Christians would follow the teachings of Christ.

I'd have to say that the Christians at Mudcat do a better job of that than many I've known.

(this with the proviso that there are plenty people who call themselves Pagan, Muslim, Jewish, UU, Hindu, etc, etc, that fall much short of the ideal and use their religion in stupid ways.)


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 09:54 AM

I especially am entertained by people who believe Buddhism is "non-violent" and "non-sexist" (apparently they don't know their Buddhist history of Shaolin soldier monks, or the realities of contemporary Asian societies, which includes downloading porn on the temple computers!)


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Polly Squeezebox
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 04:27 PM

Hmmmmm ............ Would that co-relate to the history of the Knights Templars, the realities of other contemporary patriarchal religions and the sexual abuse of young members of the congregation by some Ministers?

There are shadows in all the religions - or rather FROM the FOLLOWERS of all religions. Hopefully, we all look for, recognise and deal with the shadow side of ourselves - by whatever route or system of tenets.

Polly


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: mandoleer
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 04:27 PM

Nice one, Liz! Another Pagan here. Not as deep in as one of my cousins, who is a High Priestess in two different orders and well in with Native American stuff as well. And on very good terms with the local Mormons, for some strange reason... One even wanted to marry one of her daughters!


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Blackcatter
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 10:57 PM

Well you know, those Mormons tend to be the marrying kind...


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: coldjam
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 11:43 PM

Well we all know that the difference between pagans and heathens is that pagans... wear socks... or maybe it's that pagans have holidays and heathens... just have to party... (wait for it)...for the hell of it.Ba dumdum.


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Subject: ADD: Heretic Heart (Catherine Madsen)
From: Barbara
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 11:57 PM

Before we get too far from music, here:

HERETIC HEART
(Catherine Madsen)

I am a bold and a pagan soul
Come rambling thru this land
I judge the world by my own rights,
And I come by my own hand.
And if you asked me how I've learned
To live so joyously:
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart
Are my authority.

My mother lives her life in fear
My father's an angry man
But I have sung at the ancient rites
And danced on holy land.
I sing the seed out of the ground
And the bird down from the tree
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart
Are my authority.

I once was found but now I gone
Out of the faithful fold
Of those who think that holiness
Is to do as you are told
Though man and scripture, priest and law
have all instructed me,
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart
Are my authority.

They tell me Jesus loves me;
I fear he must love in vain.
For what can any Man-god know
Of woman's secret pain?
My healer is the lady moon
Whose tides run deep in me;
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart
Are my authority.

So while I breathe this glorious air
An outlaw I'll remain
My body may not be subdued;
My soul shall not be saved.
And where I may not shout out loud
I'll sing it secretly --
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart
Are my authority.

Click to play


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Amos
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 01:38 AM

Barbara:

What a find! Thanks so much!! Must find the recording!


A


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 08:07 AM

As a heathen, I have to say one of the things I find silliest about the pagan thing is the same thing I find silliest about all polytheism, which is the practice of assigning gender to planets, deities, etc.

Shouldn't that be a clue that such beliefs are purely human constructs?


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Blackcatter
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 09:41 AM

This from someone who doesn't even identify themselves...


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Barbara
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 12:30 PM

Holly Tannen "Between the Worlds" is where I learned it, Amos, and I bet I could post you a tune shortly. Cool song, ain't it? Tho I have trouble singing the line "I come by my own hand". I have been told that in England, it means "I work for myself rather than someone else"
Blessings,
Barbara


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