Folk artists who are pagan

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: EagleWing
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 12:42 PM

As a heathen, I have to say one of the things I find silliest about the pagan thing is the same thing I find silliest about all polytheism, which is the practice of assigning gender to planets, deities, etc.

Shouldn't that be a clue that such beliefs are purely human constructs?

In many languages gender is assigned to furniture. Is that a clue of some kind?

Frank L.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 12:44 PM

Yessssssss.. I'd have trouble singing that line with a straight face!

I'd substitute 'live' for 'come'... still makes sense and isn't open to other interpretations......

GUEST 8.07 - Nature is divided into Male and Female - you can't get life without a sperm to fertilise an egg, whether that egg is an embryo, a shelled egg, a seed, nut or berry.... there is a male plant/animal and a female plant/animal. It's just an extension of nature to give gender specifics to other items. To call the moon female is a step of logic. A full moon appears every 28 days or so, a mature woman will menstruate every 28 days or so, ergo, the moon becomes feminine. *I* know it's just a lump of inanimate, sterile, sexless rock, covered in dust and golfballs, that only appears to wax and wane; but that doesn't take away the magical sight of a bright white sliver like a nail paring growing to a great glowing orb with ghostly shadows and hidden images.

We could say that ALL religions and beliefs are human constructs.. but then that's what we ARE... humans with a gender.

LTS

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 02:34 PM

"In many languages gender is assigned to furniture. Is that a clue of some kind?"

Yes, actually. It is. Very specific clues to that culture's beliefs regarding gender, and how they associate material things with gender roles.

"It's just an extension of nature to give gender specifics to other items. To call the moon female is a step of logic."

That's very funny, but I don't think it was intended to be. Thanks for proving my point.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: PoppaGator
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 02:59 PM

While humans invariably have a gender, most theologians and serious metaphysical thinkers would agree that any superhuman Being would necessarily transcend gender. "Man and woman He created them . . . in His own image and likeness" would seem to imply that neither man nor woman alone matches up to an image of the Deity, but that their complementary and different natures together somehow reflect that Divine image.

Of course, the patriarchal religious establishments that have dominated human history have incorrectly skewed the image of God as inappropriately male, so the neopagan usage of "Goddess," while equally wrong, at least stands as an effort to counterbalance the prevailing image held not only by the "outside world," but even by the pagans themselves, at least during their earlier years.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Raedwulf
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 03:04 PM

apparently they don't know their Buddhist history of Shaolin soldier monks

Apparently, Anonymous Guest, you don't know your Buddhist history of Shaolin soldier monks either. Like the minor fact that they have never been "soldier monks".

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: JeZeBeL
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 03:19 PM

I am also pagan. :0)

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 03:34 PM

Right, they developed their martial arts just as a means of showing how peaceful they were to their enemies. They never fought as solidiers.

Sure.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Gorgeous Gary
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 07:25 PM

Responding to one of the GUESTs:

Heathen, not pagan. Does that count? And I'm guessing everyone affiliated with filk has heathen/pagan leanings.

Watch the generalizations there. Yes, there are a number of pagan/Wiccan folks in the filk community. Yes, a number of very prominent performers in the community are. But not everyone.

I for one am Jewish, though not an observant one, and a number of my friends in the community are Orthodox. I also know a couple of Catholics and a couple of other devout Christians.

-- Gary

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Gorgeous Gary
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 07:26 PM

Oh, and hi Susan! See 'ya at OVFF? 8-)

-- Gary

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Blackcatter
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 12:09 AM

And I first got into filk songs when I started going to SF & Fantasy cons. Religions didn't enter into it.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Barbara
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 12:25 AM

I've shipped a tune off for Heretic Heart; hopefully a link will appear here soon.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 02:07 PM

Dar Williams on her CD "Mortal City" had a song called "Christians and Pagans". It's a little ditty about visiting relatives at Christmas when they know you are a pagan celebrating the winter solstice, not Christmas. I don't know if it is autobiographical, but it is a nice tune.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: cool hand Tom
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 08:01 PM

Im a Communist so religion isnt in me little red book lol

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 12:43 AM

darn. I clicked on this thinking it was the 'Folk Artists who are Bacon' thread. my mistake

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 05:23 AM

So whats the difference? all these ' folk artists who are ? ' threads are feckin stoopid anyway. Who cares as long as the music and craic is good.

eric

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Cats
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 05:28 AM

All good thoughts and wishes to all, pagan or not, at one of the most important times in our calendar, Beltane.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,MBSLynne
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 06:39 AM

Eric the Red...why do you read them then? No one is forcing you!

I second that Cats...Happy Beltane everyone!!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Raedwulf
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 01:27 PM

Guest 3:34 - You are a bloody ignoramus. Try doing a Google on the history & origins of kung fu & you will quickly find out how uninformed you really are. For the Shaolin to qualify as 'soldier' monks they would have to, as an organization, actively seek out (or at least train with a view to being involved in) conflict which, to the best of my knowledge, they never have.

They are not the European knightly orders (the Templars, Hospitallers, Teutons, etc). They have never fought as a body unless persecuted. Lastly, kung fu, by a very strict definition, is not even a martial art. It's a movement art; like Tai Chi & Aikido; that has self-defense applications. And Buddhism is very explicit about not using violence. If the occasional professed individual breaks that instruction, this is not a reason to claim that the group's philosophy is therefore invalid.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 02:08 PM

Well, if you are using the internet as your primary source, that explains your ignorance.

Try going to a library with a decent, current encyclopedia of religion, and then come talk to me.

"Buddhism is very explicit about not using violence."

Oh please. Westerners who romanticize 'Buddhism' (as if it were a monolithic, ancient religion, which it is not) like you just did are downright dangerous to public health.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Raedwulf
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 03:01 PM

Evidence? (And who said that I was using the Internet as a primary source? I said if you bothered to do a little bit of basic research you might find something... Ahhhhhhh! What's the point!)

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 05:28 PM

Thanks to Blessings Barbara, we have a MIDI for "Heretic Heart." Thanks, Barbara.
-Joe Offer-

---

Click to play

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: DOpfer
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 06:07 PM

Myself, I'm an agnostic dyslexic with insomnia. I lay awake night's wondering if there really is a Dog.

DanO

Subject: Heretic Heart URL
From: Haruo
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 08:55 PM

Presumably as a result of the late corruption of Mudcat's hard disks, the message number in which the text and MIDI link of Barbara's Heretic Heart has changed. If anyone (like me) had a link to it in your webpages, probably better update it or at least check it. The message number should be 1468253 (it was originally 147something). I also have the song in La Lilandejo at Heretic Heart.

Haruo

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 09:57 PM

look lets cut to the chase.......
do you dance round in the nude, collect herbs at midnight, cast spells, drink from ornate chalices and other exciting stuff.

I mean the showbiz angle is important.....

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Haruo
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 10:59 PM

No, actually I'm a Baptist. But I like the song.

Haruo

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 11:17 PM

If yer talking about

People
Against
Goodness
And
Normalcy

Then I'm in...

If yer going on about all this new age, crystals and horoscope, lay-lines, and hippy-standing-around-in-circles-nude bullwhip, I dismiss them all as a passle of DLDs (Deluded Little Dupes) It's mostly Victorian Age 'romantic fiction' coupled with Hallmark-ian marketing... And these people eat it up like it's Turkey Twizlers for school dinner.. Apparently without a brain in their heads they are going to save the soul they can't prove even exists...

Read the book "American Gods" by Neil Gaiman, especially the chapter where Wednesday is chatting with Aestor in the San Francisco coffee shop...

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jun 05 - 12:13 AM

WOW!!! Some of the pagan, self proclaimed, from half a decade ago ... are not lining up for muster and the roll-call.

Perhaps, they have seen the

LIGHT???

Or, they are terrified of the Patriot Act and its implications on their impositions on traditional institutions?

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Jun 05 - 03:24 AM

I knew I could tap into those sweet tolerant natures somehow. So that's why martin Gibson did it....

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,harp missy
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 01:48 AM

I feel unable to resist the urge to quote George Carlin at this point...

"When it comes to religion, I'm not an atheist and I'm not an agnostic. I'm an acrostic. The whole thing puzzles me."

Pretty much sums up my generalized theory of the universe...

M

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 02:19 AM

Sorry, I didn't read this before. Back in Apr a Guest said

And I'm guessing everyone affiliated with filk has heathen/pagan leanings.

As guesses go, that's doesn't seem a very good one to me, unless you are prepared regard almost everything as a 'pagan leaning.'

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 02:47 AM

George Carlin also said...

"The only good thing to come from religion has been the music"

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Haruo
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 05:10 AM

I think the "Heretic Heart" tune is mighty similar to the Ploughboy's Dream, aka FOREST GREEN.

Haruo

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 05:56 AM

that's oh little town of Bethlehem , isn't it?

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Gillie
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 08:16 AM

Raedwolf,

I totaly agree with what you have said regarding origins."

They are not the European knightly orders (the Templars, Hospitallers, Teutons, etc). They have never fought as a body unless persecuted. Lastly, kung fu, by a very strict definition, is not even a martial art. It's a movement art; like Tai Chi & Aikido; that has self-defense applications. And Buddhism is very explicit about not using violence. If the occasional professed individual breaks that instruction, this is not a reason to claim that the group's philosophy is therefore invalid."

I have been involved in Tia Kundo and know that it is a disipline of mind and body, that is aimed to promote self disipline and is not used unless absolutley nessesary. A last resort! It takes a braver man to walk away from a fight. Movements are based on Tai Chi.

Blessed be

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: erinmaidin
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 07:46 AM

I'm going to hold on to my last breath for as long as I can and try to get a peek over to the other side. Then...., I will declare :)
(Hell...I won't even tell my mom what political party I follow....mostly because...I don't follow one! lol)

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Big Mick
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 08:41 AM

Go ahead, erin maiden. Live dangerously. LOL.

Our people were pagan long before they were Roman Catholic. I have longed for a return to the Irish Catholic Church, which was stifled by Rome, and which incorporated our natural beliefs into itself. Don't care much for the showbiz pagans. I used to correspond quite a bit with Morgan Llywelyn, and she constantly complained about the new agers who saw pagans as they wanted them to be instead of as they were. They had a very studied view of the natural world. I am not afraid at all to tell you that I hold many pagan beliefs, and still consider myself a Catholic.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,Silverfish
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 08:57 AM

Me. Yep.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: RB3
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 11:21 AM

I agree with Big Mick on the whole new agey-pagan thing. I would say that while I agree that Neo-Pagan is a silly word, it does actually apply to some people. I think that the people it applies to are the ones who are into the crystal/ley line stuff rather than actually attempting to get to the "truth" of what the ancient religions were.
On the other hand, I don't know too many people who practice those religions as they actually were, complete with sacrificing the "king" at the end of the year (and if there are people who do that, I probably don't want to know...)
I call myself a Pagan, because I'm poly-theistic rather than Wiccan. All the Wiccan/pagan community members I've had contact with tend to make that specific distinction: Wiccan=Goddess worship or Bi-Theistic Archetype religion, Pagan=everything else that isn't another established religion and has some sort of connection with ancient religions (i.e. poly-theism, shamanic tradition, Asatru, celtic or norse religion). But there are so many of us, and very few actually conform to any particular set of guidelines that it seems silly to attempt to define it any further.
I also think the old Celtic-Christianity was a pretty cool religion, as Christianity goes. I don't go there myself, but it seems to be a much more natural religion, with less constraints than typical Roman Catholicism (no offense meant to any Roman Catholics out there).
-RB3

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: CapriUni
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 01:56 PM

Well, I call myself Neo-Pagan precisely because I wish to separate myself from the white-light-and-crystal-set (as my father calls them)

Many of those white-lighters wish to claim that their faith is:

1. Handed down in an unbroken line stretching back 30,000 years,


2. and that the ancient Pagans never did anything really bad, but have just been misrepresented by history.

I devoloped my own faith, based on my liberal Quaker upbringing, my own readings of mythlogy, and my own observations and reasoning. So my faith is definitely "Neo-". It's also definitely "Pagan," because I did borrow from all those readings from Pagan mythologies at least the precedent of polytheistic, animistic and Nature-based religious systems.

I only started reading about Wicca and other contempory Pagan faiths (and adopting some of the terminology) after I made the conscious decision to stop trying to hammer my experiences into the Judeo-Christian mold for the world -- believe me, they just don't fit! ;-)

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 02:03 PM

im not pagan, im thick.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Wuzzle
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 02:24 PM

not a folk artist just love to sing

            The Swan

When I was a child I danced to the moon and sang to the moon and called to the moon
I cried to the spirit in the air to lift me up and keep me there for I was free and I was wild
And I was the ugly duckling
When I was a child I danced on the earth and sang to the earth and called to the earth
I cried to the spirit of the land to keep me safe to hold my hand for I was free and I was wild
And I was the ugly duckling
When I was a child I danced through fire flames a burning higher and higher for I was free and I was wild
And I was the ugly duckling
When I was a child I danced in the waves and sang to the waves and called to the waves
I laughed with the spirit in the waterfall and my wounds were healed one and all
For I was the ugly duckling

Now I am grown I dance with the moon sing to the moon and call to the moon
I laugh with the spirit in the air for she caught me up and kept me there and I am free as bird on wing
But not the ugly duckling
Now I am grown I dance with the earth and sing to the earth and call to the earth
For the spirit of the land held my hand to help me grow and help me know that I am free
But not the ugly duckling
Now I am grown I dance with the fire flames a burning higher and higher for I am free a child of fire
But not the ugly duckling
Now I am grown I dance with the waves sing to the waves and call to the waves
And I laugh with the spirit in the waterfall and our laughter echoes, becomes a roar
For not the ugly duckling

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Kaleea
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 04:35 PM

Evidently, I'm "heathen" &/or "pagan" according to the definition as announced by certain fundamental "Christians" I've known. the definition being anyone who does not attend their church--I'm not making this up. Some refer to others who go to a quite similar church as "almost christians."

I prefer to think of myself as a either member of Reverand Leroy's (Flip Wilson) "The Church Of What's Happenin' Now!" or The Church Of NOB (None Of The Above).

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 09:21 AM

I have never considered myself a "Folk artist" ("artiste" ?), just someone who sang folk songs at one time, enjoyed every minute of it, drank a fair bit of ale and sometimes got paid for such activities.

I also danced Morris (before my knees gave out).

I am an initiated Alexandrian Wiccan of 37 years standing, or profession, if you will. I am a pagan (or a Pagan)and proud to be so.

One aspect of the Pagan Ways (there are many) is one that few other faiths seem to work to, or adhere to :

"Live ; and let live".

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Anne Lister
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 10:17 AM

Happy to use the term pagan ... don't identify with any particular grouping of pagans, though. Don't have gods, goddesses, altars or any of that stuff but do find plenty of invisible friends to chat with, especially when I'm walking in the woods or on the hills.
Oh, and one of my visible friends has a lot of family traditional material in her keeping and teaches some of it to some of us. You can hear about some of it in my songs.

Anne

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Anne Lister
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 10:23 AM

Should I add here that I was once "outed" by the News of the World as a witch? Not that I am one, mind. The argument went something like "well, a lot of people in the audience were witches so she must have been one", as I recall. Which is an interesting take on audience/performer relationships. I'm off to sing to a local gardening club tonight, so that makes me a gardener (it's a fair cop) and before Christmas it was the Farmswomen's Guild (and no, I don't have a farm).
It was annoying, however, as the result of this article I lost a job working in a Catholic school - not that the headteacher would own up to that as a reason, mind you, but it was an odd coincidence to say the least.
Ho, hum.

Anne

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 10:45 AM

Pagan is a well used and abused term. Looking at the OED, the definition includes "not believing in the mainstream creed." Whether this means believing in something else or not is not adequately explained. Another definition (not the same one) mentions pre-existing (before Christianity) beliefs.

Working on the first interpretation, I do get up in clubs and have in the past made a living out of playing folk music so hit the first criteria.

I do not have an imaginary friend, so I suppose I could be classed as pagan in that sense.

So, count me in?

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 12:05 PM

It seems to me that many pagans have very healthy attitudes towards religion- rejecting dogma while recognising the human need for spiritual belief and ritual.

Personally though, I'm happy to describe myself as a born-again agnostic. Brought up a Christian, 'til I saw the darkness.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Gervase
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 12:39 PM

I'm quite happy to be an atheist. Wicca puzzles me - it seems as man-made as Scientology, given that Gardner appears to have invented the whole caboodle. A lot nice in its tenets than Scientology, I hasten to add...

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 12:48 PM

Is anyone attending the Druid folk festival at Stonehenge next Thursday? Frankly, I don't give a whoopty-doo whether someone is Baptist, atheist, Zoroastrian or a devotee of Taoism. Can they play? Can they sing? As for myself, I am a closet neo-agnostic still suffering religious influences. I try not to let that get in the way of a good time.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 01:09 PM

Is it worth pointing out that Druids almost certainly had nothing to do with building or using Stonehenge?

No, I thought not

L in C