BS: The news is getting better and better!

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: jpk
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 05:00 PM

thanks froggy,and sorry bout that,i didn't notice.have agreat day.    jpk

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: Amos
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 12:33 AM

You reallly ought ot read this Times editorial on the healthcare mess:

"A Private Obsession

By PAUL KRUGMAN

Published: April 29, 2005


American health care is unique among advanced countries in its heavy reliance on the private sector. It's also uniquely inefficient. We spend far more per person on health care than any other country, yet many Americans lack health insurance and don't receive essential care.

This week yet another report emphasized just how bad a job the American system does at providing basic health care. A study by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation estimates that 20 million working Americans are uninsured; in Texas, which has the worst record, more than 30 percent of the adults under 65 have no insurance.

And lack of insurance leads to inadequate medical attention. Over a 12-month period, 41 percent of the uninsured were unable to see a doctor when needed because of cost; 56 percent had no personal doctor or health care provider.

(Click link for rest of article).

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/29/opinion/29krugman.html?hp

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 07:59 PM

Guilty, as charged...

Yeah, there are times when I get sucked into their insanity...

Thanks fir the "pull up" (reminder), Guest, Bob-Mart...

I'll go back to tryin' harder...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: GUEST,Bob-Mart
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 07:42 PM

Thanks for the advise yesterday Bobert.

Insane huh?
_________________________________________________

Subject: RE: BS: the Anti-Semitism of the Intellectuals
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 10:51 PM

Opps... I didn't mean to insult anyone but draw attention to the fact that *one* individual seems to gather way more attention than he/she deserves...

Yeah, tis person seems to *hog* this joint lately with the same ol' very micu non intellectual, as in in intellegence, sidebars and guess what? Well, I'll tell ya what.... There are folks still willing to argue with an insane person... That, in itself, is insane...

I'd invite ALL of my fellow Catters to turn the radio up and jus' say no to assh*les... They have no purpose here... They sling mud but ain't got one bit of substance to 'um... None!!!

Wanta argue with the Martin's of the world??? Fine... You, not him/her are the folks wastin' yer time... Complete wasre of time...

MY SUGGESTION: Next time you disagree with what one of the "Martins of the World" start a new thread on whatever dumbass stuff stuff he has just said or ignore him/her!!!!

JUS SAY NO!!!!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 07:38 PM

But someone still has to do those jobs that enable the rest of us to buy stuff cheaply (or even affordably). If everyone said, "nope... I'm not going to do that job", there would be no way to buy stuff at cheap or even possibly affordable prices. So if nobody was willing to do those jobs, you would end up paying for it.

And you're paying for it right now, even though many people don't realize it. You are paying the emergency room costs of the people who aren't able to get adequate medical care that would keep them out of the emergency rooms. A few dollars up front (for a national health insurance plan... not necessarily national health care) would ensure that everyone who needed blood pressure medicine, or diabetes medicine, or asthma medicine, or any number of other important forms of health maintenence care, would not get so sick that they would end up in a very expensive life or death emergency room situation that the rest of us end up paying a lot more for in the long run anyway than we would be paying for a national insurance plan.

Like I said... the way we do it now is penny wise and pound foolish.

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 06:35 PM

BS, Martin...

Fly into National Airport, I'll pick yer sorry butt up and take fir a tour of some of the neigborhoods in the nation's capital which will put a healthy dent in yer theories about the country providing an opportunity for everyone...

It doesn't...

But, don't just take my word fir it, get out of yer ivory castle, get on the friggin' plane and come see fir yourself...

But you won't do that 'cause yer a lot like yer hero, Mr. Bush. Much easier to proclaim stuff from afar than to actually take the time to see what the real world is like...

Yeah, keep it uip and if you live long enough, you, like yer rich Haitian counterparts will live out there day incarercated in their living compounds with armed guards...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: Amos
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 06:24 PM

Martin is a member of the set who believe that they are entitled to everything they have, and that everyone else is entitled to what they have, and considerations like justice, social conscience, or the end results of social choices have nothing to do with it. The quality of the profit -- what it was exchanged for -- never enters in to his considerations. If you got it, then it was fairly earned. This is a ruthless discompassion which is not in keeping with his desire for tolerance.

A

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: frogprince
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 06:06 PM

I know ya weren't, jpk; that's why I put the "whine" in quotation marks.

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 05:58 PM

See, that's the deal, though.

this country DOES provide opportunity for all. True, some luck plays a part, but entitlement does not.

You have to make it happen. No one else. If you are flipping burgers, take the time to try to learn some more skills. Too many don't bother.

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: jpk
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 05:43 PM

to you froggy,i'am not whining.ijust went out and started over,with a lesson retaught to me.watch out for a lawyer wanting a new anything.live and learn

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 05:09 PM

The system is not set up for more people making the right choices or it would sut into Boss Hog and his buddies wealth and, by golly, that ain't about to occur in a country prides itself on having the highest percentage of children living in poverty of any developed nation...

No, what we are getting is a royal screwing from the ruling class and the current batch of theives is holding us down while it occurs...

That might not be Martin Gibson's situation but it is for a disporportionate number of our population compared to other developed countries...

Might of fact, I'm beginning to wonder just how friggin' developed the US is... Seems to be in reverse right now and giving ground at an astounding rate as Bush and his people line their pockets with wealth created by the folks who are loosing the most in this corporate/corrupt governemnt mad cash grab...

Very greedy and narcistic on their parts and it's gonna cost 'um down the road when, like in Haiti, they can't leave their compounds fir fear that someone they screwed over is gonna off 'um... That, my friends, is where this is headed if the crooks don't learn to share a little...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: GUEST,CarolC
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 03:10 PM

If everybody is supposed to make only the "right" choices, who is going to flip the burgers at the fast food joints and stock the shelves at Walmart?

Without all of the people who are workng for practically nothing, with few or no benefits such as insurance, everybody would be paying a lot more money at the checkout counter of their favorite cheap place to shop, as well as paying a lot more for all kinds of other things as well, or they would just have to go without all of that cheap stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 02:56 PM

Amazing how much whining from the ones who perhaps didn't get the break they think they are entitled to.

Perhaps you made the wrong choices. Wrong school you went to, wrong job you turned down, wrong business you started.

Yes, I have a good deal on health insurance. there are others out there. Find them. Or don't.

If you think I'm going to feel any guilt because you just can't figure out a way to make it work for yourself, forget it.

Whine, whine, whine.

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: John Hardly
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 02:37 PM

Actually, Amos, medical savings accounts are quite viable at any income level.

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: Amos
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 12:05 PM

I share your applause, SH.

But the issue is not how successful business managers can cope. They at least have available options.

If you were earning ten dollars an hour instead of, say, fifty or more, what do you think you would do if you broke a leg or had an attack of appendicitis?

I suggest you visit a few food kitchens, manned by high-conscience and usually low-revenue individuals who care about helping.

The issue is, in our society, how much help should be available to those knocked down souls who are without the resources to hire expensive medical help in time of need?

Where do you believe the line should be drawn? And why?


A

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: Alba
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 11:23 AM

Thank you Guest.
I will look into your advice.
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 11:12 AM

Guest,


The detractors of this thread have no interest on how successful business owners such as yourself can actually make the system work you. They would just rather sit around and compare the sizes of their brains and call each other intellectuals because it makes them feel worthwhile.


I applaud you on working the system to your benefit.


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 11:07 AM

I do think that if we choose to make the medical profession an employee of the State we need to somehow phase in those poor bastards who were foolish enough to enter the medical profession under the "old contract" wherein they took the risk and went 100's of thousands of dollars in debt on the possibility that a high-return profession awaited them on the other side of their long education expenditure.

Once the State gets to set the rates of payment it will presumably also assume the cost of educating the doctors and nurses. Further, it will have to predetermine who among us is worthy of the expenditure.

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 11:00 AM

Alba,

What you're talkiing about is a serious problem. Have you looked into Medical savings accounts? They are working exceedingly well for me (self-employed) and a few other local small businesses I know. They are very affordable and the savings portion becomes a retirement account if unused.

If you do investigate this option don't let an insurance agent scam you with information about some kind of "medical savings account" that you pay into but have to use within a year's time. I'm talking about an actual medical savings account -- a dual account that is half high-deductable (I still have an 80/20 on some smaller expenditures), and half savings account -- again, a savings account that is your private property and a tax-defered retirement/medical account.

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: Alba
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 10:43 AM

Yes:
"Everyone in the USA is entitled to quality healthcare. All they have to do is pay for it."

and there is the problem right there.
I run a reasonably successful small Business. I thought ok lets get insured. Checked the rates for Health Insurance...
Let's just hope my Home remedy and herbal treatments keep working because there is NO WAY in Hell I can even begin to THINK about being covered!!!!

Yes indeed:
"Everyone in the USA is entitled to quality healthcare. All they have to do is pay for it."
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 10:21 AM

"Everyone in the USA is entitled to quality healthcare. All they have to do is pay for it."

I don't think Larry K. has any idea why 'entitled' and 'has no money' are incompatible concepts.

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 10:02 AM

Yeah, LarryK, come on down... Bring yer own cardboard box to live in and just lap up all the benefits of being homeless in America...

Like what have you been smokin', anyway?

I thought that hubby's original post was a blatent display of ignorance but looks as you've topped even him this mornin'...

Congrates!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 09:38 AM

I would contend that the average homeless person in Detroit has better healthcare coverage than the average person accross the river in Windsor Ontario.    Any hospital in Detroit will admit a homeless person and treat emergencies at no fee.   In Windsor Ontario (one of the 10 largest cities in Canada) they shut down all emergency rooms due to lack of funding.   A person I take voice lessons with told me her mother lives in Canada and was very ill.   Every emergency room in Windsor turned her down.   She called her doctor who advised her to dehydrate her 85 year old mother until she was near death which would force the hospital to accept her.   As I stated earlier, I would contend that a homeless person in Detroit would have better healthcare.

Last September, my 75 year old mother needed hip replacement surgery. She made an appointment with her doctor and scheduled surgery two weeks later.    Last month she had her other hip replaced.   Also a two week scheduling process.   Both surgeries went very well.   In Canada, there is currently a 9 month waiting period for hip replacement surgery.   That means if my mother lived in Canada she would still be in pain waiting for her ist hip surgery.   Tell me how that is compassionate.   I guess that since every one suffers equally it is compassionate.   NO thanks.   I prefer the US system.

Everyone in the USA is entitled to quality healthcare. All they have to do is pay for it.

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: GUEST,Don Firth
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 07:21 PM

Right you are, frogprince. And as my wise old uncle used to tell me, "Boy, never get into a pissing contest with a skunk!"

Sometimes I forget. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: PoppaGator
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 07:01 PM

To get decent coverage for $190/month, you not only have to be gainfully employed, you have to be employed by a fairly large corporation. Small businesses do not get such favorable treatment from the insurance industry.

Small business is the backbone of the American economy, the main source of all newly-created jobs, but small businesses get screwed every time their health-insurance renewal comes due. Being an employee of a company with fewer than 100 employees is tough enough when it comes to medical insurance; being the owner of a small business ~ one of the true heroes of American capitalism ~ is almost impossibly difficult for anyone who wants to provide his workers (and his own family as well) with decent coverage.

The whole stupid business by which health coverage is tied to employment is bizarre and inequitable. If you change jobs, or if your employer goes out of business, you're suddently a pariah, and can purchase health insurance only at a price many times higher than what a large corporattion pays for each employee.

I was fortunate enough to have decent HMO coverage when I was diagnosed with cancer last year. My out-of-pocket expenses were really pretty minimal. The costs I saw on the "this is not a bill" documents that appeared in my mailbox regularly were unbelieveable ~ there were single days for which the listed retail price of my treatments exceeded my annual salary. Of course, those figures were immediately cut in half (or less; often, much less than half) because I was an "in-network" patient, then the HMO paid some or all that reduced amount, and any remainder was simply waived ~ no problem! Makes you wonder what the real costs are.

People who are uninsured but are able to pay are the ones who really get the shaft, paying ridiculously inflated prices. Of course, those who enjoy adequate coverage also get to see those astronomical figures if they read every document to hit their mailboxes. It's little wonder that the wealthiest among us can be so easily mobilized to oppose any rational change to the status quo.

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 06:54 PM

No, Martin, like millions of people in this country, I am self employed and have been since 1980 when I quit my last paid job as a social worker...

And, yeah, if you have any friends wyho are self employed ask them about health insurance (ha) in America and you hear some horror stories.

$819 a month!!!! $2000 each (me and the P-Vine) per year deductible!!! Yeah, do you know what that means? Do the math. This is like running ten grand thru the shreader every year!!!

When Bush came into office we had better coverage, $500 deductible and were payin' $476 a month...

Like I said, you do the math...

(And BTW, both of us are healthy...Except finacially after getting fleeced by Bush's buddies!!!)

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 06:50 PM

Martin...why is it so hard to comprehend that $190 a month is the EXCEPTION? How do you think an employee of McDonalds is gonna get that kind of deal?

It's fascinating...you make a good salary and thus get a LOWER rate than those who make minumum wage because your company subsidizes part of your health insurance. Then you ridicule those who don't have such a sweet deal. There are many, many reasons for not being in a position to afford (or be handed) decent, affordable insurance...and being dumb and/or lazy is not the most common!

You just go on & on being a total jerk ...and revel in the notoriety! I cannot begin to comprehend what puts that kind of attitude in anyone's head.

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: frogprince
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 06:45 PM

Now who wants to line up and tell jpk that it's all his own fault, and he has no right to "whine"? There is so much wealth in this country that there is simply no need for anything like this; it could be prevented without inflicting any real hardship on anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: jpk
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 06:39 PM

sorry, i misspelled lawyers

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: jpk
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 06:37 PM

on health insurance,to hell with it.me and my wife had it,she passed on,and the damn bills and lawers still managed to put me and mine in the poor house.the company plan was suposed to be one of the best,till you read the itty-bitty print about what they don't pay.

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: frogprince
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 06:35 PM

Don, when a monkey throws poo, it just doesn't mean anything. Just walk away from the cage.

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: gnu
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 06:02 PM

Nope. Can't understand why it would or why you would ask that question. Anyway, I sinserely hope yer kids get thereselves a gud edukation to. Expeshally in speling and grammer. Just a suggestion: don't help them with their homework.

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: Once Famous
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 05:47 PM

Never said that, gnu. I do play country, bluegrass, and some folk professionally and always have. Have a following, also. I play some solo stuff and play banjo in a group. But I am intent on making good use of my good education, have worked the last 20 years for an NYSE corporation making good bucks so I can send my kids to college for a good education also.

does that trouble you? I love my American dream. wish everyone here could live there's, but alas, many stepped on their own dick or couldn't see past the dope.

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 05:43 PM

Bobert, I'll hold MG for you and let you at 'im. Then we can see how well his health insurance holds up.

Meanwhile, I was in error when I referred to my government going on a red herring hunt over medicare costs, I obviously meant social security.

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: gnu
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 05:35 PM

MG... "Bobert, I pay $190 a month for a great HMO plan through my employer with the largest provider in the country."

I thought you were an independant, famous, well off, folk and/or blues muscian, with more talent in your little finger than... Now, where did I get that idea from?

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From:
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 05:04 PM

And there it is, boys and girls! "If you don't like it here, why don't you go someplace else?" And he calls me a "socialist." Dismisss it by slapping a label on it!

I am dazzled by the brilliance of Marty's refutation!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 03:24 PM

if taxes were fairly pegged high enough to do the necessary stuff, we...(ALL of us) would learn to live with them and adjust their lifestyle accordingly, and the rich would still be rich,,,,but the poor would not be on the edge of disaster constantly.

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From:
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 02:09 PM

My gawd, there are some short-sighted, self-centered people here!

In most mature, civilized countries, taxes are fairly high, but you get a lot for them. Utilities and good public transportation, for example, and a guarantee that no one, including the elderly, will live in poverty. And free health care. But taxes (including all these services) are nowhere near what most people in the United States have to pay in monthly health insurance premiums alone.   Unless their employer picks it up, in which case, take-home pay is reduced by a commensurate amount, so the employee is still paying for it.

I think that people such as Hubby and Martin Gibson and DougR think they smell "socialism" in the air (Oh, Horrors!!). Well, take a good look. In countries that do have what you would probably regard as socialism, people tend to be happy and healthy, are less driven by the typical American combination of the need to acquire more "stuff" along with a nagging feeling of anxiety, and generally enjoy life a lot more than most Americans do. It's a little thing called "a feeling of security," that comes from knowing that even if the wolf is at the door, it can't get in.   

Now, really, guys, what's so evil and horrible about that! Eh? Tell me! What!??

I might remind our more conservative brethren that providing for the general welfare is something that's mandated in the Constitution:

The preamble to the Constitution states:

"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." [Emphasis mine, just in case you missed it.]

Article 1, Section 8 states:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; [Here, too.]

I wonder what tune Hubby, Marty, and Doug would sing if they were among the 39,000,000 American citizens (assuming Hubby's figures are right, about which there seems to be some dispute, but even so, that's a helluva lot of people!) who couldn't afford health care insurance and suddenly found themselves, or a member of their family, with a catastrophic illness or injury. It does happen. And when you least expect it.

When asked for a contribution to help the poor, hungry, and downtrodden, Ebenezer Scrooge responded, "Perhaps they should die, and thus decrease the surplus population!"

Well, that is a solution, of course. And some folks seem to think that's just peachy.

Taxes are the dues you pay for living in a civilized country.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: harpgirl
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 01:56 PM

Gervase is right!!!!!! I'm tired of these fake people. Max should put a stop to it.

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: Alice
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 01:51 PM

Every ER does not have to treat people who come to it without ability to pay. In towns like Montana, hundreds of miles distant from major public hospitals, many hospitals, like the ONLY one in our town, are privately owned. They do not provide "free" care in the ER. All treated must agree to pay for treatment and are turned over to collection agencies if they do not.

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 01:44 PM

Hubby's link does not quite say what his opening post says. From the CBS News link hubby provided... "Congressional rules permit privately financed travel, provided the money doesn't come from a lobbyist or the representative of a foreign interest." If you go to CBS's source (PoliticalMoneyLine.com), you find a listing of politicans who have taken privately funded trips. There is no evidence, nor even allegation that the 27 people who have accepted more private travel money than Delay have accepted it from forbidden sources. Now, for number 28 Mr. Delay, there are receipts for a credit card belonging to a registered lobbyist!

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: DougR
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 01:33 PM

Gervase: perhaps you are not aware of it, but this is not strictly a music forum. One's contribution to the music threads is not a criteria for determining whether or not one can post. Nor is it a place where only one (prevailing) point of view can be promoted.

Your reference to the poster as a "jerk" is insulting.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: Gervase
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 04:16 AM

For Pete's sake, why do you allow jerks like this to yank your chain? Of 173 postings by Susu's Hubby on this forum, only this seems to have any reference to music. The rest? A complete waste of bandwidth from a rather dim idler with too much time on his hands.

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 04:01 AM

Because universal health care would make it more difficult to exploit people.

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: dianavan
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 03:29 AM

I'm so glad I live in Canada. I can't imagine struggling with disease and medical bills at the same time. There is alot to be said for peace of mind and the ability to recover quickly. As imperfect as it is, I have to say that the medical system here has served me well.

Seems there is alot of news about waiting lists and lack of beds but on two occasions I had to use the emergency room and they got to me in less than an hour. They were quick, caring and effecient. Sure I had to manage as an outpatient and pay for a cab to and from the hospital daily but guess what, they taught me how to monitor my condition and care for myself at home. All lab tests, x-rays, drugs and medical fees were paid for by the govt. Whats wrong with that?

Why is the U.S. so afraid of universal health care?

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: Barry Finn
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 03:18 AM

Hospitals are required to treat emergencies but only as long as it'll take them to stabilize the one who needs treatment, then they are permitted to pack them up & piss on their graves. My sister used to work at Boston City Hospital, that's where the poor folk go, the equipment was out dated & constantly being jury rigged. The numbers of mix ups that should've evolved care caused deaths but you probably couldn't find better staff when it comes to gun shot victims. This is where you'd be taken to in cases of emergencies unless you hhad a car & could drive yourself to some other ER (at least it was when I lived there). Now COBRA of course is the fail safe system that those who received health insurance through their employer won't lose health insurance when they are no longer employed, great system it costs any where from $1,000 -2,000 per month for a family of 4 depending upon what type of coverage you want/need. After being discharged from the hospital I was amazed to find that some the reports focused on wither or not I had a family with a support system in place, that I was well dressed & well nourished, seemed to be intelligent, I that I was gainfully employed & that I had insurance that would cover the costs. How many of these things mattered when it came down to wither or not I qualified for treatment & if they would allow me live or die. How many people die because they may be poor & can't afford insurance or afford decent clothes or may not have been able to pay the high costs of better education or to be well fed. I guess that would not only leave out the large segment of the poorer population but also many of the lower middle class & if many of today's middle class thinks that their not just one or two steps in front of the homeless think about it again. You lose your job & you may be six months to a year without employment under COBRA you shell out $1,000 a month for insurance which one of your kids needs constant medication & routinely has to be seen by their primary physician. So you collect unemployment for awhile which doesn't do much more than feed your family so now you're worrying about the rent or the mortgage & you for go your own medication because you need to be able to cover your kid's co-payment make sure they eat well & some how keep a roof over their heads & clothes on their back. The hell with trying to pay for them to receive a good education you're main worry is keeping them alive, then fed & healthy, then clothed, then keeping them sheltered all the while keeping the wolf away from your door. OH SHIT, my spouse just lost their part time job. Ask Tom Delay how much his health insurance costs & how much it costs him out of pocket for medical expenses & who foots his bill for all this if not the working stiff. It might not look all that fair when you think of all those who worked all their life to pay for Tom's good health & can't afford to care for themselves.


Aren't WE THE PEOPLE his employer, isn't he working for US? He must be employed by the people because aren't the people paying for all his benefits. It's about the time the people give him & his kind an Enron Anemia & a cardboard box for shelter.


Our health system sucks unless you make enough that you can afford to pay for it, in which case most likely you receive it at no charge at all or for a small percentage, in proportion to what you may make. Try eating cat food for supper, your one decent meal of the day, so you can say healthy & buy your medication because you can't afford to be sick which in some cases is a death sentence.


Barry

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 02:28 AM

Jaysus, its threads like this that confront me with the reality that the USA is really a very foreign land, despite the close proximity and common language.......

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: Boab
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 02:11 AM

Susu's Hubby's trumpet blared forth "the number of uninsured Americans has been underestimated" and then he blunders onward trying to prove the exact opposite!?!?
   And just a mention of personal preference in regard to U.S. hospital treatment as compared to that in Canada. Driving north from Mexico thro' northern California,within sight of Mount Shasta, I discovered that was the probable victim of deep-vein thrombosis. I took a life-threatening risk [call me an idiot if it gives you glee---]and made all speed north to the ferry at Tsawassen, and made a beeline for the nearest Canadian hospital, where I spent one day intensive care, and six in recovery. The direct financial cost to me was nil. A foolish risk, perhaps, but it paid off, and I still had my life savings!

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: DougR
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 01:39 AM

"No one is entitled," Martin? How cruel of you to think so. Didn't you know that the Constitution guaranteed EVERYONE health insurance? Study, Martin, study! :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: The news is getting better and better!
From: harpgirl
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 10:46 PM

thanks for the reminder, mr scary eyebrows!!! LOL Our local VA does have lots of good medical personnel, some of whom I am well-acquainted with and we are lucky to have this resource!