BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: freda underhill
Date: 15 May 05 - 12:17 AM

The Alaska Department of Fish and Game recently issued this bulletin... "Warning: In light of the rising frequency of human/grizzly bear conflicts, the Alaska Department of Fish and Game is advising hikers, hunters and fishermen to take extra precautions and keep alert of bears while in the field.

We advise outdoorsmen to wear noisy little bells on their clothing, so as not to startle bears that aren't expecting them. We also advise outdoorsmen to carry pepper spray with them in case of an encounter with a bear. It is also a good idea to watch out for fresh signs of bear activity. Outdoorsmen should recognize the difference between black bear and grizzly bear manure: Black bear manure is smaller and contains lots of berries and squirrel fur. Grizzly bear manure has little bells in it and smells like pepper."

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: freda underhill
Date: 15 May 05 - 12:12 AM

no matter how strong the boulders, they will all become sand
one day.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 15 May 05 - 12:04 AM

I just realized how glad I am that computers weren't available in the 1960s.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 15 May 05 - 12:02 AM

Relax, everyone. I found the answer to the giant egg problem.

NASA, eat yer hearts out.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 14 May 05 - 11:57 PM

The horror!

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 14 May 05 - 11:55 PM

Swallowing the poor guy whole!

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 14 May 05 - 11:52 PM

MY GAWD--they're even eating the TREES.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: freda underhill
Date: 14 May 05 - 11:48 PM

and you never know what's inside them..

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 14 May 05 - 11:46 PM

She didn't run. LOOK. They got her.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 14 May 05 - 11:42 PM

They are not rocks--they are EGGS. RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Bobert
Date: 14 May 05 - 11:32 PM

No, no, no... Whad I gonna do wid you, brucie? Ain't about rocks... Hey, wait... Maybe is.... 'bout rocks in yer danged head, you knothead....

I was talkin' 'bout gettin' me a T-Tex to chase the bears away... Not abunch of rocks in some lilly pond that wounldn't scare away a tadpoll...

B........

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 14 May 05 - 10:27 PM

Ba da da boom: T-REX ROCKS!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Bobert
Date: 14 May 05 - 10:17 PM

Yeah, firget the M-79.....

.....T-Rex, yeah, T-REX!!! That is the answer...

(Chill Bobert.... Ya started off with a few relatively harmless black bears and now ya got Jerrasic Park, with granade launchers...)

Don't listen to that guy... T-REX rocks!!!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 14 May 05 - 10:08 PM

But ya gotta feed it . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 14 May 05 - 09:59 PM

What the heck is he doing to that horned thang?

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 May 05 - 09:59 PM

Where will the mastodon sleep? Anywhere it wants to. badah bah doom

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 14 May 05 - 09:56 PM

This is IT!

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 14 May 05 - 09:41 PM

Oh. OK, then forget the shotgun. However, if'n ya get one of , http://www.warrenphotographic.co.uk/seeitals/mediums/00011.jpg
yer troubles is over.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 14 May 05 - 09:38 PM

...but get a shotgun, too. Ya might find a use for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Bobert
Date: 14 May 05 - 09:37 PM

Screw it, I ordered a M-79... Game over... fir the bear...

(Bobert, Bobert, Bobert! Jus' listen to yerself... Guns ain't the answer when it comes to bears...)

Wanna bet?

M-79.... Allready been checked out on it, too...

Works good...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 14 May 05 - 09:31 PM

You get one of these and the bears will leave you alone.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 14 May 05 - 09:29 PM

Aw, Rap, then the bears will know where to find Bobert and the P'vine. Need sometin' quiet-like. Dang, got an idea. BRB

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 May 05 - 09:18 PM

Bobert, I been thinkin' on it, and here's what you need ta do.

First off, everwhere ya go, carry a loaded 12 gauge shotgun. Best kind is probly one of these. Sure, it'll cause ya ta be talked about, but iffen ya tell folks that it's in case yer attacked by bears they'll unnerstand. (I carry one all the time, myself. Never had any backtalk from folks using the library, neither.)

Then, ya gotta get the P-vine something fer her pertekshun. I'm guessin' that when ya go out together you kin perteckt her, so fer them times when you ain't around, this'll git the job done. Yup -- a jen-u-wine MK19A3 automatic grenade launcher! Fires 40mm grenades from a linked metal belt. All you gotta do (onct it's loaded, a' course) is ta hold the trigger down and away ya go, shootin' high explosive grenades all over the county! It'll make them black bears sit up and take notice, yessir.

Now that I've settled all this fer ya....

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,Rapaire
Date: 14 May 05 - 06:44 PM

Well, mostly 'cause I'd had a momentary mental lapse and had forgotten that you can get .410 slugs, mostly. And one will drop a deer -- poachers sometimes use 'em, back where I came from before I am where I am now.

Bobert, I got a pretty good idea of your combo. It's most likely to be either like this one or an older version of this one. Notice I said "like," not "is." Shucks, my very own brother has an Armalite-made AR-7, and your combination is a pretty good deal for most things.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,Metchosin
Date: 14 May 05 - 12:29 PM

No fear Bruce, ya worry too much.*BG* I posted basically the same comment myself. A lot of stuff that I find humorous tends to be pretty black.

The real kicker in all this was, at the time of her dog's untimely demise, my friend was so heavily medicated and out of it, because of bipolar disorder which the doctors then could not seem to get a handle on and held out little hope, that she didn't have much concept regarding what was going on in the real world around her....The kind of stuff that happens in life that makes you shake your head and think...jaysus....

On a brighter note, despite all this, she is once more a fully functioning human being and went on to rescue another adult Westie from the abuses of a puppy mill a few years back.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 05 - 10:42 AM

Sometimes they have more guts than brains. Metchosin, I realized after rereading this post, "The dog will give the bear something to chew on while you and the P'vine get away" that it was very insensitive. It wasn't my intent. It is never good to lose a pet. My apologies.

Bruce M

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Metchosin
Date: 14 May 05 - 02:07 AM

The thing with Teddy the Westie was that at the time, three dogs originally confronted the bear just off the trail, the two larger dogs were able to beat a hasty retreat back to my friend's neighbour who was walking them and while they left in a hurry, Teddy managed to keep the bear busy for awhile. Not necessarily bright on his part, but true to form.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 13 May 05 - 09:27 PM

True.

The best dog I ever had was a German shepherd. She was big, fast and exceptionally intelligent. I think she would have had the smarts to handle a bear. Wish she'd learned that about porcupines. Not once and not twice. THREE times. THREE. I swear she was dumb as a rock when it came to porcupines.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 May 05 - 09:22 PM

So much depends on the personality and previous experience of the bear. At the wilderness lodge they had a Chesapeake Bay retriever- that dog was savvy and smart. She would get the bear to turn around to face her- at a certain moment the bear would have its back turned to her and that is when Ginger went into attack mode. The bears all ran eventually.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 13 May 05 - 09:14 PM

A word of caution guys... The .410 is a calibre not a gauge and you could fire an old mild load 44 40 blackpowder cartridge out of them but a full choke .410 might blow up teh barrel with a .45 cartridge in it. Best get another gunsmiths opinion before you do mates... The .410 rifled slug is a 7/8 ths ounce .41 calibre ball that is traveling at the same muzzle velocity as a .44 magnum when it leaves the barrel of your shotgun. More than enough power there, why risk a blowout?

Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 13 May 05 - 09:12 PM

When I was a toddler, a bear entered the yard where we spent a week or two in the summers. My aunt and uncle had a dalmatian named Rex and they cared for two collies named Laddie and Lassie (hard to believe, but I shit you not). The dogs kept the bear busy and my uncle--since passed on--got into it with the dogs and bear using an axe. The bear left. One of the dogs got hurt a bit and the bear got cut, too. I think the dogs would have driven the bear away without my uncle being there, but I also suspect one or two would have had to be put down.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Metchosin
Date: 13 May 05 - 09:12 PM

Tahltan Bear Dog

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Bobert
Date: 13 May 05 - 09:10 PM

So, ahhhyh, is thaqt a resounding "no" to the dog question???

I mean, like what about a border collie? They are very quick and elusive and I don't think a bear could out manuver one and I also don't think that a border collie would be scared of the bear eniff to retreat to mom...

No?

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Metchosin
Date: 13 May 05 - 09:04 PM

I do beieve that Westies might just believe they are the reincarnation of Tahltan bear dogs.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Metchosin
Date: 13 May 05 - 08:51 PM

Too true Ebbie, that's why you need an aggressive, small, foolhardy dog such as the Westie I mentioned in my first post. Westies don't run back to their owners with their tails between their legs....noooo....they don't recognize the fact that something is much larger than themselves and more dangerous. Think of a wee drunken Scottish footballer....that pretty much sums them up. But it does give you time to get out of the area while the bear is enjoying his hors d'hoeuvre.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 May 05 - 08:33 PM

The problem with most dogs is that they tend to run back to their beloved master with an irate bear in tow.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 13 May 05 - 08:33 PM

The dog will give the bear something to chew on while you and the P'vine get away.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Bobert
Date: 13 May 05 - 08:29 PM

You can fire them .45's outta the .410, Rap... I don't know if you've seen this rifle but it breaks down and can be carried in one's back pocket, fir gosh sakes... I mean, it's so light that ya gotta buy a 2 pound weight to attech to it so it don't float away... I don't want no .45 shell in that thing if I'm the one that has to fire it... If Mr Bear needs to be on yer wall, heck, I'll just stick a punkin ball in the 12 guage and he can be on yer wall....

BTW, anyone know how large dogs do, no not dog do gal dangit, but large dogs and bears.... The P-Vine now thinks she'd feel more comfy with a dog??? Any advice about dogs and bears, other than not matin' 'um....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,Rapaire
Date: 13 May 05 - 09:10 AM

Iffen you do that, Bobert, kin I have the hide? I'll pay to have it processed aforen you ship it out, too.

If you got a 12 gauge, then get down to the gun store and git yerself a box of them "bird bomb" shells. You don't aim to hit the bear, but to scare the critter off IF nothin' else works.

After that, a 12 gauge slug'll make 'em right unhealthy. And you kin fire .45 Long Colt (.45 LC) shells outa a .410.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Bobert
Date: 13 May 05 - 07:56 AM

Well, the more that we've talked with folks in the area the less concerned we ate about our personal safety...

...the vegetable garden, however is goping to be trickier and folks are recommending a chain link (cyclone) fence with an electic wire and close to the house...

Seems to make sense.

Ahhhh, as fir guns... I got me a big old 12 guage pump shotgun and a 410/22 over under Survival rifle an' I certainly ain't gonna go carring them around.

I like the idea of wearin' a bell around one ankle.

I was talkin' with an old farmer who knew the guy who built and lived in the house up until his death last year and this ol' farmer told me that there was one particular bear that would come down and sit on top of the same fence post (60 feet to the house) every evening and it was making the wife a tad nervous and after a couple weeks of this the guy shot and killed the bear???

I'm not sure I would have done that but I guess if the P-Vine were rattled enuff I certainly could but wouldn't get any enjoyment out of it... Though I'm sure that the P-Vine would enjoy the meat...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 May 05 - 02:12 AM

In 1988 I worked in a wilderness lodge. The agreement with the owners was that I would work a split shift so that I could do a lot of hiking in the area. Which I did, and it was great. Some of what I did was foolhardy, though, no doubt- especially in making my way through chin high grasses and brush with zero visibility.

In the past I had spent a lot of time hiking in Oregon and Washington state mountains and I've never liked roadways and don't like returning the same way I've gone. So I did the same thing at the wilderness lodge- I left paths and cut across instead. Just to make myself feel better about it, I would call out: OK- I'm coming through and I'd appreciate it if you'd all stand back!

It worked, in the sense that it eased my mind!

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 13 May 05 - 01:46 AM

"The armed person may give off aggressive vibes that may have the opposite effect on bear from that intended."

i think that would depend on the armed person. I'm with Rapaire; I can't think of any weapon I could carry that would make me feel disrespectful and aggressive around a bear.
I have no doubt that I could kill a bear with a firearm, and I have no doubt that he might well kill me or cripple me before he dropped. A weapon doesn't make you invulnerable. Unless you're an eedjit.

But it does give you better odds, and better odds on most anything are worthwhile.

Armed & respectful beats unarmed & respectful.

Well, Rapaire said it briefer & better, but I have this compulsion to try to explain things…

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 May 05 - 11:01 PM

Well, knowing the vital tenacity of bears, I'm respectful even of those stuffed and displayed in museums. I'd be respectful of them even if I was carrying a four deuce mortar as a sidearm. I'm also respectful of moose, caribou, elk, whitetail, mule deer, cougar, and the rest. Why, even a toy poodle can give you a nasty nip on the ankle before you can kick it over the horizon.

But mostly, I figger I'm a trespasser in THEIR world.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 May 05 - 06:48 PM

Another odd thing about pepper spray (aside from showing up in scat) is that bears apparently are fascinated by/enamored by/curious about it. No one knows yet why but bears have been observed rolling on rope that was sprayed with it and/or playing with it.

And in Alaska, I know some park rangers who do not want to use any pepper spray on bears, no way, no how. More than one has reported having used it and successfully sending the bear off into the forest only to later observe the bear stalking them. As one ranger told me: They don't forget.

There is also the belief among some that when a person is armed, the person behaves differently, moves differently than when the same person is unarmed and respectful. The armed person may give off aggressive vibes that may have the opposite effect on bear from that intended.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 May 05 - 05:00 PM

Special Notice On Bears From Alaska Fish & Game:

The Alaska Department of Fish and Game is advising bikers, hikers, hunters and fishermen to take extra precautions and keep alert for bears while in the field. It is advised that outdoorsmen wear small bells on their clothing and shoes to alert bears in the area who aren't expecting them. It is also advised that outdoorsmen carry Pepper Spray at all times in case of a bear encounter.

It is advised to watch out for fresh bear sign activity. You should be able to recognize the difference between Black Bear and Brown Bear sign. Black Bear sign is smaller and contains berries, Brown Bear sign is larger and contains many small bells and smells like pepper.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 12 May 05 - 03:43 PM

I found this in an old magazine...

Rules for operating in bear country

1) Be alert.
2) Take bears seriously. The are not pets.
3) Never be out of reach of a powerful firearm or alternately, out of sight of someone who is adequately armed.
4) Do not camp or sleep astride a bear thoroughfare, and set up your camp with the understanding that a bear may show up in the dark.
5) Be alert.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 12 May 05 - 02:33 PM

Yuck to bear. However, if I was hungry enough I'd bite the ass out of a skunk and bark at the hole.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 May 05 - 02:00 PM

If you're hungry, 'most anything is edible.

I know of people who, after shooting a cougar (during the Depression) invited the neighbors in. Everyone brought something, and they had a neighborhood "cat feed."

Bear, too. And from bear you can get trichinosis, just like from pork.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Metchosin
Date: 12 May 05 - 01:24 PM

Cougars are edible, someone made sausages from one that my father shot when I was small and we gave it a try, but if I recall, it was not a hit. Bear is pretty gawd awful as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 12 May 05 - 01:08 PM

Yeah, Bobert. I'm one of those no-shootin'-Bambi liberals. BUT -- I married into a marginally poor family from a little town west of San Antonio. All 6 of those "kids" (hubby now 62) learned safe firearms stuff from time they could walk so, when times were tough, if everyone "bagged their limit" during deer season, noone went hungry. They also had a big garden. They fed me (first time I met them) swiss chard and backstrap, both of which were for the first time. Now, I don't think it's right to get automatic weapons and go out and mow down the entire deer population, but I'm always VERY pleased to accept gifts of any excess my hunting in-laws (or my own cousins) may have acquired during the appropriate time of year. And we have always (since we got home from the Navy in '70) had a backyard garden. If you plan it right, you can eat well even when technically "broke". Big help bringing up our 3 kids.    Tw
P.S. Cougars DON'T sound edible, DO sound dangerous. Avoidance seems best policy. Sometime come to Texas, visit Brazos Bend State Park, and get the sheet when you enter that instructs you how to manage any 'Gator encounters you may have. Probably some Cougar-applicable advice in it, if you need it. Tw