BS: Headbutting.. how ?

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 May 05 - 06:39 PM

solid metal lapsteel guitar slides fit very neatly and comforatable secure
inside a clenched fist..

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 16 May 05 - 01:03 PM

car keys are good, i used to do pizza delivery on a night in hull, was often aproached by druggies and similar types,trying to steal pizza/money, they never got far! and usua;lly ended up with car keys dragged across their face or smacked across the head with a Maglite, only time that neither of these approaches worked was on a guy high on drugs armed with a craft knife, nothing would stop him, so i ran to my car and ran him over.

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: Peace
Date: 16 May 05 - 12:59 PM

I used to carry a comb when I had hair. Hold the comb so that the tines face forward. The bog tines at the ends stick out about 1" above and below the clenched fist. You can guess the rest with no help from me.

Basically, I try to stay away from 'trouble' places. When I am in that kind of area, I walk like I have a purpose and carry myself in such a way that I look as though you don't want to mess with me. I learned to walk like that when I lived in NYC. I learned about the comb where I grew up in Montreal.

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 May 05 - 12:51 PM

If a Maglight is too big to carry around (they are bloody heavy for many women, particularly those with RSI or Carpal Tunnel Syndrome), invest in a really big metal key fob and carry it in your hand. I have a large flat apple shaped keyfob that fills my palm and provides a nice hard edge should anyone be desperate enough to try and attack me. Even just carrying your keys is helpful, the barrels make a nice jabbing implement and the wards can scratch quite badly.

If you favour the testicular area, use your knee rather than trying a full leg extension kick... less to move upwards, less warning for the attacker and less likely to be grabbed and pushed off balance.

Oh and don't shout 'Rape' or 'help' - research has shown that people nearby react better if you shout 'fire'.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST,john
Date: 16 May 05 - 12:37 PM

To GUEST-woman walking dark alley, firstly try not to be there, ie=
get a taxi, or a lift home if possible, if not possible then carry a Maglite Torch [the sort the police use], if anyone hassles you, smack them across the head with it, be sure you have good reason to though, as they can cause serious damage!
if he is no immediate threat, ie he just looks at you in a bad way, then jab him in the guts with it as hard as possible, also useful for repelling dangerous dogs [smack downwards onto their skull].

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST,Rapaire
Date: 16 May 05 - 09:30 AM

LtS is dead right about getting away, not getting even.

1. A choke hold (with both hands) from the front can be broken by bringing your hands and arms up inside those of your assailant and "exploding" your hands and arms outward. This causes surprise and may give you enough time to do something more (e.g., stomp on the instep).

2. A one-handed choke hold can be broken by slamming your arm against that of your assailant and AWAY from your body (i.e., working against his thumb).

3. If you are being choked from the rear, turn your head to the right or left. This puts the muscles of the neck against the hands or, if the person is using his arms, puts your throat into the crook of his elbow. In either case, the point is to make it easier for you to breathe.

4. In breaking a hold or punching someone, punch THROUGH the target area (pretend that the target is on the other side of where it really is). This adds power to your blow or break.

5. Once free, get out of there. And yes, yell LOUDLY all the while your freeing yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 May 05 - 05:36 AM

Thanks again to you all. We have discussed the kick in the balls, and she thinks that it is too easy for the 'man' to grab the leg and off balance herself. I tend to agree.

Liz that's exactly what we were looking for, the thought of dna hadn't crossed our minds and it is excellent advice. Thanks again.

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 16 May 05 - 05:20 AM

Don't forget the classic kick in the balls. It's gotten me out of a few situations.

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: Peace
Date: 15 May 05 - 09:23 PM

I use slaps often in the style I learned. They hurt big time. Way far fast.

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 May 05 - 09:20 PM

Nope, I meant a slap to the cheek (yes, I know about the eardrums too). But the cupped hand will concentrate force on the trigeminal nerve -- ouchie of the highest order.

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 15 May 05 - 09:15 PM

And do everything you can to keep from getting into that dark alley. The Bad Guy isn't going to take you to a place where you'll be better off. Entirely the contrary.

& L the S has good advice up there.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 15 May 05 - 04:24 PM

Self defence for the smaller woman.

1) Keep your nails short. Scratching with long nails just breaks your nails. Go for fleshy bits that will show and will stick under your nails for DNA testing if the worst should happen.

2) Kick the knee and run the edge of your foot down the shin as hard as you can, stamping on the foot at the end.. . it's unbeleivably painful and very offputting. You may be able to unbalance an attacker by kicking just underneath the kneecap.

3) Don't wear a scarf tied around your neck, particularly in the ends through a loop style - it just makes a noose with one easy handhold. At least looping it around your neck means two hands are needed to pull it.

4) Thumb in the eyesocket will take an attackers mind off most things.

5) If a hand is put over your mouth, stick your tongue out and lick it - makes it slippery and easier to slide out, and if you're lucky, the attacker will instinctively pull his hand away to wipe it.

6) If in a hold, drop your centre of gravity by suddenly bending your knees. An attacker might be put off by the sudden weight and be unbalanced. You will then have your knees bent ready to push upwards again and unbalance them further.

7) If held from behind, drop your centre of gravity as above but as you bend, lean forwards. That should pull any attacker with you and you can then push upwards as above and with any luck hit him in the face with the back of your head.

The aim is to get away, not get even. If you can't get away, make as much noise as you can and get as much evidence as you can... pull hair, scratch hands and cheeks.

I hope you never have to use it.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: Peace
Date: 15 May 05 - 03:52 PM

Sure does a number on the eardrum.

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 15 May 05 - 03:31 PM

That's slapping the *ear* with a cupped hand, innit?

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 May 05 - 09:37 PM

1. Stay in the light whenever possible.

2. Forget high heels for running and fighting. (Exception: a stilleto heel pressed into the instep WILL crush the foot.)

3. To attack the eyes: SLAM the heel of the open hand into the chin with an upward motion, and at the same time clutch HARD with the fingers. Start the upward blow at the waist or as low as possible, and DRIVE it upward with the intent of making it come out the top of the assailant's head. Once contact is made (and you'll know it!), clutch downwards with the fingers, aiming to close your open hand into a fist.
(Try this very slowly and you'll see what I mean. DO NOT try this at speed -- this can be a killing action.)

4. You can grab someone's hand and force the back of the hand towards the elbow (that is, the palm is towards the elbow -- the person's thumb is away from their body). Put both of your thumbs on the back of the other person's hand, and force the BACK while turning it quickly in the direction of the bad guy's thumb (i.e., away from their body). If they resist you easily break their wrist, and you will certainly throw them to the ground. If you do that, you can deliver a kick with the side of your foot to their elbow, breaking both the wrist and the elbow.

5. It is far better to know how to do two or three effective things well. Practice is essential, but even more essential is the mental toughness to USE what you know and when to use it. Taking out someone's eyes, breaking their wrist and/or elbow -- these are things that are not for the squeamish or the hesitant. Nor do you want to blind someone without cause -- or kill them, for a finger thrust into the eye can hit the brain.

6. Try slapping someone using a cupped hand. Aim THROUGH the person's head. Cupping your hand concentrates air under the hand and magnifies the force of the slap immensely. (NOTE: this little goodie was invented by the NKVD, I understand.)

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 05 - 08:13 PM

Thanks to you both. Self defence classes it is then.

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST,freda
Date: 14 May 05 - 07:56 PM

The sternum is the weakest bone in the torso - a strong shove to the man's sternum (is that the right name for the bone down the front of the chest?) will push him backwards while you quickly side step and run.

I was stalked by a man in Bombay when I was younger - i finally gave hime a snap-kick to the groin and left him in the gutter.

a sharp punch to the throat is another way of shocking him without permanently disabling him as the eye one would do.

i went to women's self defence classes in the 80s and picked these tips up there. the snap-kick i learnt there and luckily have only needed to use it that once. i recommend women's self defence classes for every woman. i only went to three but that was enough to protect me when i need it.

freda

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST,brucie
Date: 14 May 05 - 07:38 PM

The thing is that men know 'you' would go for the testes. The other best target is the eyes. Keys, fingers, fingernails into the eyes. However, that requires some knowledge/skill, and then the will and speed to use the skill. That brings us back to 'defense classes' for women. Usually the YMCA (or other organizations of that nature give those types of classes. They are worth taking, IMO. Also, check with your local police department. Sometimes they have officers who are trained and able to give the lessons. Then you get some women together and take the lessons. These kinds of classes are inexpensive.

Wish there was more I could do to help.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 05 - 07:30 PM

She has no choice about the street. It is the one she has to use to get to her front door, she works in a hospital and one shift ends at 4am. We assumed the testicles could be the target area, but hoped that something we hadn't thought of could be better. Oh well will just have to hope society changes.

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST,brucie
Date: 14 May 05 - 07:11 PM

But first, I wouldn't be on that street.

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST,brucie
Date: 14 May 05 - 07:07 PM

That question can't be answered. I would suggest that the woman take some classes that are meant for women. If it was me (as the woman) I would play along until I could get his penis/testicles in my hands. Then I would squeeze and tear with all my strength. Then I would run away.

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 05 - 06:59 PM

If a five foot six inch tall woman was walking down the street alone, and a six foot man stood in her path and tried to push her towards a dark alley, and there is nobody else around, what is the quickest most effective thing she could do to get away? Appreciate a serious reply. It is a serious question. And I intend to pass the information on.

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST,Rapaire
Date: 14 May 05 - 06:10 PM

GUEST is right: for some it's training.

That's why I'll run from a potential fight. Once upon a time, I taught this stuff. Those of use who did never even got into horseplay -- too much possibility of slipping into "finishing techniques" and you feel so lousy after killing someone unnecessarily. Just ruins your day.

(PS: I was trained to hurt people with my hands, knives, guns, explosives, and combinations and improvisions thereof. Those who know don't.)

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 05 - 04:01 PM

For some people it's not fantasy. It's training.

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST,McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 May 05 - 03:50 PM

I've got through so far - and that's a pretty long time - without ever getting into a serious fight. Part of that is luck no doubt, but I think part is that I've never gone in for fantasising about how I would set about taking someone to pieces.

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 05 - 01:48 PM

Haw, we got the trio of Webley, Smith and Wesson.

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST,Folk Security Militia
Date: 14 May 05 - 11:25 AM

... and let this thread be a warning for the health & safety
of any wannabe macho pugilst
up-and-coming new folk music stars..


us old folkies aint necessarily such easy pushover targets as you might think we are..!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 05 - 10:29 AM

A strike from the outside of the leg with the foot works. Try it from the opponents side. He's facing forward. you are to his side--left, right, doesn't matter--and kick the side of the knee at the joint. Even if the leg doesn't snap at the knee, it will hurt him very badly. Then you can leave. Forget this move if he has a loaded gun.
Breaking the foot is much easier, but we'll leave that for another time.

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: John O'L
Date: 14 May 05 - 09:52 AM

Well it seems we've got headbutting pretty well covered, now can anyone tell me the best way to break somebody's legs?

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: Peace
Date: 13 May 05 - 02:43 PM

Thing is, other than one little incident that involved an older-than-me guy and a fellow about half my age, I haven't been involved in a physical altercation for decades. In that one I was just imposing peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 May 05 - 02:31 PM

It is a bit foolish to let your potential adversaries know what to expect, isn't it, Brucie?

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: Peace
Date: 13 May 05 - 12:49 PM

And that's another thing. Years back a fellow said he was going to beat the shit outta me. I clocked him in a split second. (I was tempted to use the line from The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (rendered by Eli Wallach if I recall--"If you're gonna shoot, shoot; don't talk."))

Anyway, y'all have a good day.

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 13 May 05 - 05:23 AM

Are you talking to me or chewing a brick cos either way you are spitting teeth.

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST,Tiocfaidh
Date: 13 May 05 - 04:02 AM

"Can your mother sew?"

SMACK!!

"Get her to stitch that"

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 May 05 - 06:41 PM

There's no such thing as a "fair" fight. If you must fight, you're in to kill -- literally -- the other guy. If you just wound him, he's lucky.

Wires, knives, bottles, coffee mugs, dirt, belts, eye gouges, eardrum breakers, forehead slashs, rocks, bricks, sticks, kneecap breakers, instep crushers, nose busters, spine snappers, throws, crushes -- whatever works. Nails, teeth, knees, elbows, hands, fists, thumbs, feet, hips, head -- whatever works.

There ain't no such thing as a "friendly fight."

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: *Laura*
Date: 12 May 05 - 05:20 PM

Philip Pullman quote -
"As far as Jim was concerned, anything you did in a fight was fair, becasue if you didn't do it the other bugger would - so you might as well do it first!"

xLx

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: Peace
Date: 12 May 05 - 04:51 PM

Other than in the dojang or tournament days of my youth, I do not believe in fair fights. Ya wanna attack me I will use any and everything at my disposal to hurt you, badly. I do not provoke physical fights; I think that's shit. I will walk away. However, swing at me, push me, be offensive with anyone I am with and I will break your hands, elbows, knees, fingers, jaw, nuts, name it. I think people who fight are assholes. I also figure I will be the asshole who walks away from it. The other asshole(s) can go get bandaged or stitched. I am very much with Rapaire on this one. I would rather walk or even run from a fight. But when I have no option, don't even think of Queensbury Rules. I ain't from that kinda neighbourhood.

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: M.Ted
Date: 12 May 05 - 11:23 AM

Apparently this thread is OK, just as long as we don't offend anyone by saying why this question has come up.

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 12 May 05 - 07:33 AM

It would be a nice soft landing !

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 05 - 07:26 AM

Before anyone jumps on you Liz? They wouldn't dare! ;>)

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 12 May 05 - 06:16 AM

I found that headbutting just hurts you more.... I'd go for the softer parts that really WILL hurt.

(And before anyone jumps on me, I was defending myself against a drunken fuckwit who had already blacked my eyes, broken a tooth and tried to burn me with his cigarette - he ended up fracturing my skull and I ended up charging him with assault).

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 05 - 02:58 AM

Where I come from, they used to sew razor blades into their caps...

Watch the guy with the cap....

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 05 - 02:57 AM

... you can knock the guys front teeth out, if you're cute enough

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 05 - 02:56 AM

The best way to avoid getting hurt from a headbutt, is to angle your head down as you see it coming.

Hurts him more than it hurts you!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: Peace
Date: 11 May 05 - 10:26 PM

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:k15NHDgsQKMJ:www.physics.ubc.ca/~outreach/phys420/p420_96/danny/danweb.htm+car+collisions,+&h

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 May 05 - 10:21 PM

Reminds me of what my husband and I decided (more than slightly tic)long ago: If you see you're going to hit someone head on, step on it!

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 May 05 - 09:53 PM

It's been going on for a long time - See here

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 May 05 - 09:32 PM

There really are better ways to fight, if fight you absolutely must. Not being in a place where you have to fight is the best defense of all. Remember that old saying about it being better to be a dead lion than a dead jackal? Well, it's even better to be a live lion -- and live lions don't fight if they don't have to, and the best way to insure that is to be absent from places where you might have to fight.

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 11 May 05 - 07:49 PM

Some people have harder heads than others. Some, like mine, are adamantine.
PS. The back of the head works, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Headbutting.. how ?
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 11 May 05 - 07:31 PM

Aka 'The Glasgow Kiss'

As your opponent goes to headbutt you you drop your head so their nose hits it.

Failure to get the timing right could mean you end up mouth to mouth swopping tongues. I wonder if that is why it is called a Glasgow Kiss.