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Subject: The Pride of Petrovar.. From: Benson Date: 17 Dec 98 - 11:27 AM A few years back, I was priveledged to visit "Ireland" with my Father....I guess he wanted to visit the "olde sod".... One of the stops was an old castle.....The one associated with "Dirty Nellies"......the name escapes me for the moment. There is a small village there....and in the castle, a dinner show with Irish songs and madrigals. One of the songs they sang was "The Pride of Petrovar"......I was so pleased to sing along....as I knew this song well. The lady across from me also knew the song.....and it made for pleasant dinner conversation!!!! I have a dear friend who is a Catholic priest......this is unusual......as I am not Catholic....But ....the good Father Patrick O'doherty comes from Dublin.... I spoke to him of this song...which he also knew....BUT he related that it was not Eileen Orr...But rather Eileen Oghe??.... and explained that the last name had a meaning in Gaelic.....It was rather interesting....Does anyone have any information on this ??? |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petrovar.. From: Harald Schmidt Date: 17 Dec 98 - 11:51 AM The song is written by Percy French and is known as Eileen Og. I haven't got this song here now, but I can type it for you ... will come back a few hours later. HARALD |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petrovar.. From: Martin Ryan. Date: 17 Dec 98 - 11:55 AM Your clerical friend was quite right. "Eileen Og" means "young Eileen". The placename was Petrovogue or Petravore?. Off the top of my head, I think French made up the name. The version in the DT appears to have a few Americanisations. I'll check the original and try to pick up any that make things clearer. Regards |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petrovar.. From: Harald Schmidt Date: 17 Dec 98 - 12:00 PM Sorry, I didn't read your posting :-)) You don't need the verses. Eileen Og means Eileen the young or Eileen the younger, when I am right. Sorry, I'm not Irish. |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petrovar.. From: Benson Date: 17 Dec 98 - 12:10 PM what a fabulous site this is.....You guys are tooooo much!!!!! I only hope that somehow I can participate as well as you all have done.....Thank you so much for your kindness!!! |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petrovar.. From: Martin Ryan Date: 17 Dec 98 - 12:19 PM Benson You're welcome! The castle, by the way, was Bunratty - near Ennis in County Clare. Regards |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petrovar.. From: Benson Date: 17 Dec 98 - 01:09 PM Aye!!!!! Bunratty Castle .....and were that I coud buy the "mead" that I enjoyed that pleasant eve.........where once I sang.....A time indeed.......At Bunratty Castle!!!! (Thank you Martin Ryan.......) .......Benson |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petrovar.. From: alison Date: 17 Dec 98 - 06:34 PM hi, We've had a thread on Eileen Oge before. I'm off to see if I can find it. slainte alison |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petrovar.. From: alison Date: 17 Dec 98 - 06:37 PM Hi, Here's a link. It has the tune and the lyrics. slainte alison |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petrovar.. From: Big Al Whittle Date: 18 Sep 11 - 10:18 PM The flame haired beauty who sang you Eileen Oge at Bunratty Castle was Una Walsh, a County Louth girl - who was resident at Bunratty for several years. She now sings in a duo called No Fixed Abode on the English folk club and festival scene. http://www.freewebs.com/musicnfa/ Accompanied by her partner Tony Dean, Una can still perform a very creditable Eileen Oge. |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petrovar.. From: Chris in Portland Date: 19 Sep 11 - 10:02 AM Just reading the new, pretty good Ian and Sylvia bio. They were always looking for different material, before they started writing themselves. The book says they learned POP from the Clancys. It says they all hung out together. Thinking of Sylvia partying with the boys seems strange, but it's possible. So then I search on Spotify, and I&S's version comes up. What a great song. Chris in rainy again Portland |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petrovar.. From: MGM·Lion Date: 19 Sep 11 - 12:00 PM PRIDE OF PETROVAR (words by Percy French; music - traditional)··· ··· it says in the DT. Any other songs known by anyone to this tune? I mean, cf Star Of County Down, words attrib by most to Cathal MacConnel, but tune tradtional: we have established in another thread about a dozen songs carried by that tune. But I can't remember ever hearing any other set of words to the Eileen Og/Pride of Petrovore tune. Anyone???? ~Michael~ |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petrovar.. From: Charley Noble Date: 19 Sep 11 - 05:43 PM My uncle Richard Dyer-Bennet also recorded this one back in the late 1950s. I always enjoyed hearing him sing it, just full of energy and sly humor. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petrovar.. From: Big Al Whittle Date: 19 Sep 11 - 06:02 PM I had no idea I was talking to folk aristocracy Charley! |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petrovar.. From: Charley Noble Date: 20 Sep 11 - 08:00 AM Big Al- Not quite a blood relation. Dyer-Bennet had the good sense to merry my father's youngest sister Melvene, who was in a modern dance troupe at the time. I do remember some great song parties from when I was much younger. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petrovar.. From: Big Al Whittle Date: 20 Sep 11 - 07:50 PM Wow Charley, I bet you saw and met most of the best folk talent in the country. |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petrovar.. From: Charley Noble Date: 20 Sep 11 - 08:46 PM Big Al- Those that I met were memorable but only a few made it all the way up to Maine, and in those times one didn't travel to folk festivals. Well, there were glaciers, and dinosaurs, and things too fierce to mention. The best song party folks were Dyer-Bennet, Bill & Gene Bonyun, and Denis Puleston. Bill & Gene were the only ones who lived here year around, and they did network with other folk music people throughout New England. But I didn't start leading songs myself until I got to college in 1960, and discovered for the first time in my life that I had a social asset, an inventory of folk songs. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petrovar.. From: MGM·Lion Date: 28 Sep 11 - 01:07 PM Refresh, to ask again this qauestion I first put a couple of weeks ago. PRIDE OF PETROVAR (words by Percy French; music - traditional)··· ··· it says in the DT. But I can't remember ever hearing any other set of words to the Eileen Og/Pride of Petrovore tune. Anyone????If French did set this to a traditional tune, surely someone must know what tht tune was or what other words it ever carried previously. ???? ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petrovar.. From: Big Al Whittle Date: 28 Sep 11 - 07:01 PM I'm pretty sure there is an old music hall song using that tune - my Grandad used to sing it. However I've just dredged Google and can't see a mention. And I've tried remember ing , but its not there at my command. |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petrovar.. From: Seamus Kennedy Date: 28 Sep 11 - 08:16 PM MtheGM - I believe the Star of the Co. Down was written by Cathal McGarvey, not Cathal McConnell, although CMcC is a great singer of songs. |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petravore From: MGM·Lion Date: 30 Sep 11 - 12:25 AM Indeed, Seamus. Thank you for the correction. One of those mismatches between brain & fingers: thought McGarvey, typed McConnell ~ you know how it is! ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petravore From: GUEST,JTT Date: 30 Sep 11 - 12:46 PM It's also known as McGrath the Cattle Jobber Typical Percy French, a wonderful story in it, with McGrath, ogled by the noted beauty "looking big and masterful where she was looking small - most provoking for the Pride of Petravore". And the poor neglected lover looking at his gorgeous beloved following to the chapel "the hardest-featured man in Petravore". Here's The Dubliners' version |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petravore From: MGM·Lion Date: 01 Oct 11 - 07:17 AM Apart from Al's thinking he recalls his grandfather singing a music-hall song to it, but can't quite dredge it up from memory, nobody seems to be able to think of this tune in any other context. I am more & more convinced that, even if it does attrib it as 'traditional' in DT, Percy French most probably composed it himself. Anyone think that an unreasonable conclusion? ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petravore From: MartinRyan Date: 01 Oct 11 - 07:24 AM IIRC many of the tunes French used were composed or adapted by his long-time collaborator Collisson - The Mountains of Mourne , for example, is an adaptation of The Bendemeer Stream . I'm not sure offhand about Petravore but can't recall associating with any other song/tune. Regards |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petravore From: Big Al Whittle Date: 02 Oct 11 - 05:57 AM I'm still thinking......... |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petravore From: MGM·Lion Date: 02 Oct 11 - 06:10 AM Thanks, Al. Power to your memory's elbow... |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petravore From: GUEST Date: 02 Oct 11 - 03:04 PM I'll ask my sister. I know this much. grandad used to do a clog dance to the tune - that funny sort of Lancashire dancing that Sam Sherry did where one leg stays still. I rather think its a variant of another better known musichall song - reusing part of the lyrics Down our street It is the blooming limit dum der dum dummee,dum-a-dummer dum der dum dummee,dum-a-dummer Four and twenty girls are waitin' there! To be honest, he got on my tits a fair bit. Having an original source singer in the family isn't all its cracked up to be. |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petravore From: MGM·Lion Date: 02 Oct 11 - 03:29 PM That seems to fit the tune OK, Al ~~ but when would that have been? Before or after Percy French supposedly wrote the words to a traditional tune? Could your grandfather have got the tune he sang for his clog dance to a different set of words from hearing Eileen Oge, rather than vice-versa, is what I am trying to establish. So when, please do you remember his singing it? French's dates were 1854-1920 and his best known songs date from approx turn of 19/20C ~ wiki gives date of Mountains of Mourne as 1896, though doesn't specify a date for this one but it would have been about then. And I imagine your recollections of your grandfather using the tune would have been later than that, if you recall it. Any idea how long he would have been singing it by time you came on the scene? ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petravore From: MartinRyan Date: 02 Oct 11 - 03:45 PM FWIW THIS SITE seems to suggest that Collisson provided the tune for Pride of Petravore . Regards |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petravore From: Big Al Whittle Date: 02 Oct 11 - 07:21 PM My Grandfather died in 1965, aged 85. His family were Irish tinker/gypsy in origin. I would think he had the tune from being a kid. Sounds to me like an old fiddle tune. I imagine my Grandad and his mates apropriated it, or what they could remember of it He worked as a miner from the age of twelve. he knew lots of songs, and I can't recollect liking any of them. |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petravore From: MGM·Lion Date: 03 Oct 11 - 12:53 AM Many thanks, Al. Where was your grandfather a miner ~ collier, presumably? So your grandfather was about 15 when, according to site Martyn linked {thanks, Martyn}, Collisson would have written the tune for P French. So was Collisson adapting an older tune, as he did acc to Martyn 7 posts above for Mtns Of Mourne, which your grandfather & his friends had got from an older source {?Irish Traveller, as you hint above}, but which no-one else on here seems to know of; or did latter adapt Collisson's original tune, as seems all-in-all more likely? Shall we ever know? Many thanks again. ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: The Pride of Petravore From: Big Al Whittle Date: 03 Oct 11 - 04:38 AM He was a miner in St helens, Lancashire. The family tale is that he was sold to his adoptive family when he was a baby in the snug of The Ship Inn, Parr. When he started singing, we always reckoned they probably got nineteen and sixpence change. They kept on good terms with the tinker family though. But really my name should be Travers or Travis - the name of the tinker family. Peoples affairs seem to have been mixed up in those days. |
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