BS: For Real. I quit

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: gnu
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 06:15 PM

Jacqui.c et al... Yesterday, in the midst of a number of 'plumbing'... okay, gutter humour shit jokes, I posted something like this...

Such a lovely, cool, cloudy spring day. I recently had a surgery which left me not able to do any heavy work, including washing windows on a ladder. I bought some "Windex" jugs that attach to a garden hose, recommended by a friend. Just spray it on, wait twenty seconds, and rinse off. How simple and easy.

When washing one side of my mum's house, a robin, whose nest is in my mum's neighbour's trees, took offense at my proximity to it's nest and dove at me several times. Once, it came around the corner and dove and I almost sprayed it by mistake.

After about five hours of various light outdoor chores, I sat with Mum, chatting and enjoying the numerous birds that frequent the apple tree in her yard. We were fascinated by two pairs of hummingbirds who were becoming increasing territorial over the feeders I mounted on a post next to the apple tree.

Mum and I were glued to the little dynamos and their antics, all at break-neck speed. I did not see it coming. At the last split second, when the robin feathered, pulled full g's and let bombs away, I turned my head and tried to raise my hand to aviod being struck... to no avail. I was struck on the temple, about an inch from the eye.

The $%&^* robin then lit on the fence and sang a song of triumph while I washed off my head with the garden hose. How;s that for a shit story?

PS.... I sat again today and watched the bumblybirds with Mum... and the robins... intently!

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: jacqui.c
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 06:20 PM

gnu - what with dive bombing robins and careless dental hygenists you really are in the wars! Who have you pissed off so big time that this is all heaped on your head? (literally, in the case of the robin!)

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 06:26 PM

May I be the first to request permission to publish this thread?

Little Willie feeling mean
Pushed his sister through a screen.
Mother stopped his innovations
Said it made for strained relations.

Willie built a guillotine
Tried it out on sister Jean.
Said Mother, as she got the mop
These messy games have got to stop.

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 06:33 PM

I would like to apologise to Joe for implying that he encourged Martin Gibson out of malice. I might have believed it before but I don't now, especially after this thread. I believe he was making honest mistakes similar to his mistaking Carol for me in this thread. If he can do that he can certianly be confused on which of Martin's hundreds of posts to delete.

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 06:47 PM

Sanity at last Q.

Willie, in a rage insane
Threw his head beneath a train
All were quite surprised to find
How it broadened Willie's mind.

(? Harry Graham)

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 06:48 PM

As a current popular thread indicates, it is damn near impossible to get the last word on anything round here, even for the administrators! But it is a little quieter now, and serious words spoken softly are ignored when everybody's supporters are shouting at the top of their voices. You can't hear others when you are shouting. Sometimes 'a soft word turneth away wroth', but perhaps not at Mudcat...

"I don't care who's right or wrong -
All I want to do is stop the fight!!!"

Ah yes, the response of an ignorant bullying thug! If you're for real, I wouldn't wish anyone to be one of your kids. Only spineless wimps tolerate that sort of treatment, once they become adults. The Alpha Male may scare the kiddies off for a while, but once he looks away, the ants are back in the sugar bowl again, requiring constant 'hands-on' effort to keep the peace. Kids always fighting? Displaying that attitude usually generates a 'lose-lose' result, and the participants are at it hammer and tongs, as soon as the 'peacemaker' turns his back (and then he complains that they are at it again!). At best it can create a "win-lose" situation, so one side feels justified in carrying on the war. If the USA uses this as its foreign policy in the Middle East, bend down, put your head between your legs and kiss your arse goodbye - as song goes "We're all gonna die" - WW III. The Pakistan Prime Minister was on Aussie TV today, and his words were that you will not solve the current problems of terrorism without dealing with the fundamental societal issues in a spirit of fairness and justice. One of the basic drivers for Terrorism is Poverty. Sweeping it under the carpet is only for the incompetent, and doesn't fix the problem.

However, and I suspect that there are very few reading this... and for those of you who have claimed to have lost the will to live after reading my serious posts - well, sod you too, ignoramuses!....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Joe, as a representative of Mudcat, is fighting a rearguard action against Cultural Imperialists coming in form outside trying to run the place. Unfortunately many people, some of who were intimidated into silence by their own admission, saw the 'Toon' as a Cultural Imperialist too - trying to impose his foul mouthed racists, etc life view on them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Sometime when you're feeling important,
Sometime when your ego's in bloom,
Sometimes when you take it for granted
You're the best qualified in the room." ....

"I'll tell you, **NONE** of you could do the job he does with the basic equanimity and fairness he has displayed for years! I couldn't, JtS couldn't, Ron Davies couldn't, Foolestroupe couldn't, brucie couldn't, dianavan couldn't, Clinton couldn't.. etc.... all for different reasons! I know a couple who could come close... maybe..., but I doubt that the ones I'm thinking of could stand the strain or keep up the pace."

I had assumed that these words were said in haste or perhaps a flush of overenthusiasm: so far no word from the originator. Also no word as yet from Joe, so now I have to take it that he means for me to understand that he thinks me one of the winging troublemakers: I asked him for no help with the 'Toon'.

1) I have been insulted - it is claimed that I do not have the technical knowledge.
2) I have been insulted - it is claimed that I do not have the personality.

I have used the nice polite "I" word instead of the more confronting "D" word, (which was part of the reason for Martoon departing) since I am prepared to give the poster a chance (as I know of nothing in the past that should have alienated us). I am tired of people saying "Don't like the Mudcat? Well start your own then!" OK, then what?.... ;-)

I am tired of being put down by people who just don't know what they are talking about. If anyone who doesn't know me personally in real life and has said such things will forward me the documentary evidence (personal opinions, especially of those who don't know me, are cheap!) to back this claim that I couldn't perform the duties of a Moderator, I will look at it without prejudice. If the information was supplied to them from someone else, I will, of course want to know who from, as I may then want to pursue that original source for defamation.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Some people like to make a big fuss about how difficult things are to do. When I was in the SCA, there was this guy who was doing everything, but complaining endlessly about how he was doing everything, and not enjoying it, and how much hard work he was putting in, etc. We were at a 'Demo' and he was complaining that he didn't enjoy doing the commentary about the fighting bracket on the mike: he didn't like talking on the mike, it was hard work, etc.

Several people stepped forward, and 'convinced' him to have a break. As I was someone who had experience actually doing the fighting, and was a Safety Marshall, etc, the ladies decided I should do it.

In future the only way we could have gotten the mike out of his hands at these events would have been to pry it from his cold dead fingers. Funny, he complained a little less in future .....


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And what about the future of the Mudcat?

QUOTE

   Jophan tried to pull himself together, telling himself that there must be some mistake. But there was nothing else on the roof, just the trapdoor through which he had come, the gold cube, and the old mimeograph. Dazed by the shock of his disappointment, he wandered aimlessly across the top of the Tower.

   As he did so his hand brushed against the handle of the mimeograph, and something like an electric shock coursed through his body. Amazed, he took a firm grip on the handle. A current of some potent force seemed to flow between him and the machine, feeding back and forth from one to the other until Jophan felt every particle of his being suffused with a strange new life. The mimeograph had also changed. There was no difference in its outward appearance, but he knew that the potent force had also taken possession of it. It was subtly changed, as if it had been dead and was now alive. The handle seemed to throb in his hand. Still uncomprehending, Jophan looked down at his own body. His skin was glowing with the same golden radiance he had noticed in the bodies of the Trufans. His limbs were being invested with the same godlike strength.

   As the revelation came to him, there was a sound of golden trumpets in the air, and he heard again the voice of the Spirit of Fandom.

   "Yes, Jophan," it said," you are now a True Fan; and it is yourself that has made you so, as it must be. And now you realize the second great truth -- that this is indeed the Magic Mimeograph, and it will produce the Perfect Fanzine. For--" and now the song of the trumpets filled the air, ringing across Trufandom to the far mountains-- "FOR THE MAGIC MIMEOGRAPH IS THE ONE WITH A TRUE FAN AT THE HANDLE."

   And Jophan found that it was so.....

UNQUOTE

Goodbye!

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: GUEST,Queequeg
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 06:59 PM

That is a very nice story gnu. You have set a fine example to the other folks here that are intend at gnawing at each other over basically 'nothing'. It is good to hear of someone helping and to say the least spending time with there ederly mother. You expressed humour at those little fethered creatures who shat upon you. You also expressed your apprecation of the beauty that abounds the outside world. You could have vented at those birds, cussing them with such profanities that would shock the ears of the toughest sailor. You could told your mother not to bug you as you are not physically able and to find herself a handyman to do those chores. You appear to be a good man gnu.

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 07:03 PM

Joe, you're screwed. Face it.

Made a boo-boo. Made a worse boo-boo trying to save face. Gonna make a really, really big boo-boo by pretending that last "You're in charge of what your hubby writes here" boo-boo wasn't actually a boo-boo.

You are SO screwed!
I'm sort of OK with that, because I don't think anybody's currently pissed at me, except maybe JtS... but he hasn't written in giant capital red letters at me yet, so I am not totally screwed. You are.

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 07:06 PM

I just think that CarolC is so full of piss and vinegar that she feels the need for public flogging of someone since her nemesis is no longer present.

Susu's Hubby, my tone almost always mirrrors the tone of the person I am addressing. What you see in me in threads is a reflection of your own tone, or the tone of Martin Gibson, or whomever I am addressing in those threads.

One of the few exceptions to that is my argument with Joe on this thread, which is none of your business. I have met Joe, more than once, in person, I have played music with him, and until this thread, I counted him as a friend. You are a person who just showed up recently, and you think you know all about what has gone on here in the last five years since I joined. Well, you don't.

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: GUEST,Queequeg
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 07:11 PM

Foolestroupe, you have presented a hell of a lot of dialect there. Was your intent to bore the hell out of anyone wishing to read it. If it was, brilliant. Once people are in a stupor of complete monotony, there will to argue is completely diminished. They will in all probability venture of to some other more stimulating thread in the BS and be completely absorbed by it's contents. Thus diminishing any more idiotic posting here, such as I am doing. Bravo Foolestroupe!

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: jacqui.c
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 07:16 PM

Where did my post go?

gnu - you really are in the wars - what with dive bombing robins and careless dental hygenists. Who have you pissed off big time to bring such a punishment down on your head? (literally in the case of the birdie) :0)

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 07:16 PM

Carolc, Get out of here. Now!! No more nonsense. You have gotten you point across way back around thread 50 or whatever. Marty is gone. Go sing a song, play your squeesbox, do a jig under the moon. Let this nonsense go. Now git!!

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: GUEST,Queequeg
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 07:19 PM

carolc, in case you haven't guessed, that post was by me. Now scram!

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 07:34 PM

Jeri,

If I knew how to write this in big red letters I would.

That was very funny!

I'm not mad at you.

I'm not mad at Joe anymore.

Clinton Hammond calling me a "lap dog" broke that spell.

Imagine a 280 pound Newfoundland lap dog curled up on the lap of a five foot one and three quarter inch, nicely proportioned woman.

H'it boggles d' mind h'I tells yee.

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: gnu
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 07:38 PM

Ahh, b'y... true love... an' good on ya... and the maid too!

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 07:52 PM

Carolc, Get out of here. Now!! No more nonsense. You have gotten you point across way back around thread 50 or whatever. Marty is gone. Go sing a song, play your squeesbox, do a jig under the moon. Let this nonsense go. Now git!!

You are consistantly not getting the point, GUEST,Queequeg. At any rate, I think this thread is more like the lancing of a boil than anything else. We don't need Martin back. We need a chance to heal the damage that was inflicted while he was here. Now... go get some sterile bandages and some anticeptic ointment, quick!

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 07:53 PM

"One of the few exceptions to that is my argument with Joe on this thread, which is none of your business."

if it's no one else's bizness, why are you conducting this argument on a public forum rather than private email?

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 08:09 PM

if it's no one else's bizness, why are you conducting this argument on a public forum rather than private email?

Because I don't trust Joe Offer to not discuss the contents of PMs and private e-mails in the open forum, and to not lie about it. So the only way to protect myself from more slanderous accusations is to conduct my argument in the open where everyone can see it.

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 08:12 PM

'Ow 'bout dem Blue Jays?

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: Peace
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 08:13 PM

A TORONTO FAN? YEAH.

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: jacqui.c
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 08:16 PM

What happened the the weather then?

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: Peace
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 08:25 PM

Climate's what ya expect; weather's what ya get.

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 08:35 PM

Jeez who the heck said that her husband had her ovaries in a garlic press... and what does it matter?

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: GUEST,615
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 08:59 PM

Has anyone noticed that now Jenny O has the very first post on this thread even before MG's ? Ain't technology grand ??

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 09:25 PM

I used to play softball in Ottawa South, one of the opposing teams called themselves The Nads. Can you guess what their cheer was?

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: GUEST,from the peanut gallery
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 10:34 PM

One of the few exceptions to that is my argument with Joe on this thread, which is none of your business.

CarolC,

By conducting your argument in public, in front of all of us, YOU have made it everybody's business.

Now that Martin is gone, it's eveident that you needed somebody else to get nasty with and Joe's your victim.

The thing is, though, when you were fighting Martin you had a lot of people on your side because of Martin's behaviour. Joe Offer, though, has more friends at Mudcat than you; among the members and even among us guests.

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 10:48 PM

NIce try, Peanut Gallery. No cigar. Go troll someone else.

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 10:54 PM

...anyway, I was already fucked before I ever said a word because of what Joe said about me, so I really didn't have anything to lose.

And all I want from Joe is an apology.

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: bobad
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 10:56 PM

A few observations from a relative newcomer to this site regarding the "Martin Gibson" affair.

If the PM to Donuel from MG is legitimate I think some inferences can be made from it.
    * the MG persona was totally fictional except for being Jewish   
       and knowledgable about music.
    * his sole purpose at this site (other than some serious
       contributions to the music threads) was to engage posters with   
       socio-political views opposite to those of his created persona.
    * he did this by getting them to respond to his increasingly
       outrageous statements and personal attacks.
    * responding to him served no purpose at all since he didn't hold
       to the beliefs he was championing - if the posters had held
       right wing views he would have assumed a leftist persona.

I believe that this vindicates Joe in his assertion that the ONLY way to combat these trolls is by not responding to them.

There must be some weird subculture of trolls out there in cyberland who get together to boast of their trolling exploits - now if someone with a lot of time on their hands could find it and troll the trolls.

The next time a suspected troll shows up at Mudcat suspicious posters should raise the alarm so that we can at least all be on our guard - forewarned is forearmed.

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: number 6
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 10:59 PM

Jeeezuz, Jayzuz or whatever .... This thread is still alive and hot as ever !!!

I know I declared I wasn't going to post again to this thread .. but it ringed a ding and struck my amazement ... I just had to !!   

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 12:13 AM

With the recent crisis---- (thank you, Max, for being able to resurrect the Cat so soon---I had thought the "Martin Gibson", episode was dead and buried. But it appears that the thread is definitely still here.

Joe has invited comment.   And he has, to my mind, repsonded intemperately to (admittedly partly quite intemperate) criticism on the "Gibson" affair.

Joe--

If you had left your comments at what you said in your 11 June 8:57 and 9:44 posts, fine. But you didn't.

Sorry, you dropped the ball on this one big-time.

"Martin Gibson":

1) wished a Mudcatter's child dead
2) mocked handicapped Mudcatters--more than once
3) regularly called women "c--ts" and "encouraged the violent pack rape of women"--(Freda 11 June 7:37 PM)

For any one of these, he should have been immediately flushed down the toilet back to his home. He should have been tossed off Mudcat immediately and permanently for any one of these, much less all 3.

Tossed off a long time ago.

Not "censored". Banned. Permanently. Immediately. End of his little game. Problem solved.

You made a colossal misjudgment here. I'm disappointed you don't seem to be a big enough man to admit it.

It's your sandbox--you can do what you like--but the Catbox would have been a lot easier to keep clean without "Gibson"'s constant polluting of it.

The crowning irony is that , had you excised this boil from the Mudcat body politic, you would have saved yourself countless headaches and wasted hours. All you had to do was ban him---early.

"The worst thing about trolls is that their 'targets' are most often self-righteous know-it-all whining hypocrites". Well, that's quite a mouthful.

Let me take a wild guess and say that I think you are including me in this rather unsavory crew.

Please specify exactly when I have whined about anything.   I have never been anonymous--in fact the opposite. I have attacked "Gibson" every time he attacked me--(and sometimes when he attacked others)--and never once complained to you about him. I was at all times prepared to continue attacking him--through sarcasm. I can handle my own defense, thank you. Also, proof please, on the hypocrisy charge.

You did not ban him--the easy as well as the best way to deal with him--so he was virtually allowed to run wild. This alienated lots of people--not just me. Some of the best Mudcatters were affected. As I pointed out, Jerry left--I would guess that this might have played a role. Who knows what other possible contributors were repulsed by "Gibson"?

You say it's simple--just don't respond. It's not simple.

People from all over the world post on Mudcat. He attacked people from all over the world. It should have been obvious to you that there is no way you can convince everybody who posts to Mudcat--including various and sundry Guests, over whom nobody has any control--to stop responding. Some of the Guests may have enjoyed the show--"Pass the popcorn" etc, --and would be only too willing to keep it going. Exactly how were you going to prevent Guests from doing just that?

Sorry, you were dead wrong on this issue--and even that would be fine except that you have now attacked those of us who stood up to "Gibson". Nobody expects you to be St. Joe"--but if you attack us who stood up to "Gibson", don't expect meek submission.

You may think there is good in every human. As I recall, you complimented "Gibson" from time to time.

Sorry-- the person behind "Gibson" is a very sick puppy--or close to pure evil--the closest thing to Julius Streicher (remember him?) or possibly even a would-be Hitler. The most charitable interpretation is that he is a despicable game-player.

He needed to be squelched early. Had you done it, you would have saved yourself a lot of grief.

You didn't do it.

By the way, how many times did I ask you to delete remarks about my "lace panties" or any other of his colorful suggestions?

Precisely zero.

Therefore I am also disappointed in you that, without any evidence whatsoever, you assumed that I was so fragile that you had to do this. I am virtually certain I saw everything he said about me-- as I said several times, his attacks reflected on nobody but himself. He was just destroying his own credibility even more. It was pathetic. Fine with me.

You never PM'ed me to even ask if I was bothered by anything aimed at me. I would have immediately answered: No.

Also, nothing he said would begin to approach the 3 items I cited earlier.

You did, however, PM me to ask me to stop responding to him. I complied, several times. Made no difference, for the reasons I've noted. So I came back. You didn't like that. Spare me your "truth, justice and the American way".

Joe, you just fumbled the ball on "Gibson", and, rather than admit it, you attack those of us who were determined not to be cowed by that pathetic excuse for a human. Nobody who defended him- or herself against "Gibson"---which includes such Mudcatters as Big Mick, Jack, Carol, Richard Bridge, Foolestroupe, Don Firth, Dianavan, Ebbie---and the list goes on-------------should be tarred with the brush of "self-righteous know-it-all whining hypocrites". (How subtle)

"Martin" needed to be removed from MC--early--for any of the 3 reasons I cited. If you needed justification from Mudcat policy, how about: "We will not allow Mudcat to be used
as a vehicle for hate infomation and we will delete all racist information as soon as it comes to our attention"?

This could fit both "Gibson"s reaction to honoring Pete Seeger and his remarks on Kwanzaa. (Obviously, it depends on whether you want to be a"strict constructionist" or a liberal interpreter, as in the current struggle over the US judiciary.)

Joe, I'm sorry if you're tired, irritated, and feeling unappreciated. Believe it or not, we all do appreciate all the work you do, and we hope you continue as moderator.

But on this one, you were wrong, pure and simple. It's not the end of the world, though I hope it's the end, or close to it, of this sordid episode.

But you have invited comment. That's mine.

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: dianavan
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 01:09 AM

I promise not to post to this thread again if Joe will just listen to reason :>)

Joe said, "Still, Diana, it didn't help that you provoked Martin by attacking his family."

Now Joe, I know that you can't possibly read every post but do you know how long I endured Martin's unprovoked attacks? These attacks from Martin were constant and in response to any comment I ever made on any topic and were highly personal. I didn't have to address him personally, he stalked me and I even had to ask you if it was possible to block PM's from the guy. You didn't respond to that very pointed question. Instead you told me not to respond. How many times do I have to be hit before I fight back?

Well Joe, I confess, I fought back. I fought back by hitting him where it hurts. I did what my daddy told me to do. Daddy said, "Don't go pickin' fights but if someone starts a fight with you, you finish it. And remember there aint no rules."

So what if I said I didn't blame his wife for leaving him. That pales in comparison to what he said to me and about me. For this "sin" you, Joe, have labelled me a self-righteous know-it-all whining hypocrite and claim that I squealed like a stuck pig.

Have you ever said you were sorry for anything in your life or are you too proud to admit that maybe you made a mistake by calling me names? If you are, you are no better than the Martin Gibsons of the world.

I have a few names in mind for you, Joe, but I will refrain because you're the boss but don't ever tell me to turn the other cheek because I'm not a Christian and I don't think thats how to deal with a bully.

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: GUEST,Peanut Gallery Member #2
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 09:25 AM

Dianavan,   
    It seems someone made a fitting observation of you: "self-righteous know-it-all whining hypocrite"

CarolC,
    From looking at how many posts you have made on this thread alone, I'd say you qualify for this job: "now if someone with a lot of time on their hands could find it and troll the trolls."

Both of you people have been nasty to many, MANY people. This thread does a good job of showing what kind of person you are.

And Joe, at least I think it was Joe, excellent choice on the squealing pig comment! I can't think of anything more appropriate.

Squeal away, Dianavan and CarolC.

PGM#2

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: GUEST,615
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 12:03 PM

And who said that Martin wouldn't be back ?

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: GUEST,Peanut Gallery Member #2
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 12:08 PM

Guest 615,

   I am not Martin. I am, however, someone who has seen CarolC and dianavan be less than nice to many people. It's nice to see someone call it as it really is. It gets even better because they go on to carry on and on and ON proving the point.

   No, I am not Martin. Not everyone who disagrees with CarolC or dianavan (or others) is Martin Gibson.

PGM#2

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: GUEST,615
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 12:18 PM

No - but the two of you think alike. And you defend him.

If you don't like what she has to say ignore her. That's what we were supposed to do to Martin Gibson - right ? If it was good enough for him - then why not for CarolC and Dianavan ? Or are we still trying to keep the women "in their place". "Don't rock the boat girls" "Boys will be boys" ??

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: GUEST,615
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 12:27 PM

Also - I'll assume that you will admit that Martin was "less than nice" to a lot of people around here. Am I correct? Or is it only the women that stick up for themselves a problem ?

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: GUEST,Peanut Gallery Member #2
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 12:40 PM

I have not defended anyone here. I simply think that these two women, especailly these two, have done more to keep this thread up and running. Their whining and carrying on only proves Joe's point.

I don't think this is a case of boys will be boys at all. I am a firm believer, however, of what goes around comes around. I have no desire to get into a who is right and who is wrong banter with you or anyone else.

I have bantered with Martin and you won't see me whining about it ad nauseum. I got what I gave. So did they.

I have a life to live. Carry on if you must.

PGM#2

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 12:41 PM

LOL, Peanut Gallery. If being nice to others was legitimate currency here in the Mudcat, there would never have been a "Martin Gibson" in the first place, and you would never have seen me need to defend myself.

As for your charge that I make attacks on others, if I have ever attacked you, why don't you tell me who you are, and if I was wrong in my treatment of you, I'll apologise. But if you are someone who has stalked me and made gratuitous attacks on me and I responded in self-defence, then too bad.

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 12:51 PM

 "And in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make." 

Lennon/McCartney

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: Wolfgang
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 12:55 PM

Wolfgang (was) too ready to defend Gobson when Gobson got some flak back (Richard Bridge)

Nonsense, Richard. I know which thread you mean but you have completely misunderstood my motivation for my reaction then. I did not care about MG I did care about the other poster (in another case as well). The MG person after some initial time was just below the level that elicits interest or care in me. He could have posted what he wanted (abuse and all that) about me or others without getting any reaction from me. He has shown often enough that he was not approachable in any menaingful sense. If he posted an interesting link I may have debated the content of the link.

But there are a lot of other posters (actually most of them) I take serious and even care for. And if I see one of these posters going below the level of discussion I prefer (for instance by making a general anti-semitic remark in the context of MG) then I react for I think (until I learn otherwise) that this poster can still be approached by arguments.

So when MG posts 'cunts' a thousand times I do not deem that worth of any reaction. But if you for instance would post it only once I would react.

I did not defend MG I did criticise others for attacks I considered much below their level.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: podman
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 02:21 PM

the existence of this thread is an honorific to the one we knew as Martin Gibson. 'His' existence, 'his' postings, and his ability to elicit responses from those who either should have or did know better exposed characteristics of those posters that they deny. But in short, MG strove to bring out the 'MG-ness' in the rest of us, and to a great degree, MG succeeded.

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 02:47 PM

Don Firth's post was a good one. And he is one of the folks I was speaking of in my other contribution to this thread. Here (if the numbers stay put). I found Martin Gibson's posts much harder to ignore when he insulted friends of mine, when I knew his characterizations were pure assasination, based upon no understanding of these individuals, but instead, intended to harm, only to attract (negative) attention to himself. Don, in particular, is one of the smartest, sweetest, most generous of men, a hero in my childhood and continues to be one today. Don held his own with MG, but I hated to see him have to do it. I'd much rather Don be freed up to tell his great stories (are you ever going to publish that book on the Seattle folk scene?) than be distracted by a calculating sociopath. And Martin Gibson, in addition to sullying the names of two perfectly good guitar manufacturers, was/is a sociopath.

I ignored a fair amount of his abused hurled at me, but mostly just stopped participating in any thread on which he established a beachhead. Deckman lobbied hard for people to ignore him, but it IS hard to set an example when it means you're NOT participating--most others who were slugging it out never even noticed.

This thread has gone way astray from the "goodbye" that MG offered at the beginning. I don't plan to waste much more time with it--the bickering and hammering at points best dropped isn't my idea of a good thread.

Thought for the day: on an NPR program this week (in the Dallas area) a writer being interviewed said that email and posts like these are in many ways an ineffective way to communicate. Given the effectiveness of a phone conversation or an in-person conversation, we get only 7% of the intended nuanced information from the written word alone. Expressions, even the micro-variety, transmit so much more to do with intention. Pauses, vocal tones, are the same. Many of my matter-of-fact, no-frills messages here at Mudcat have been misread and responded to angrily by people who brought their own interpretations to what micro-messages I *might* have intended, were I only there to transmit them. They were wrong. One gets tired of continually typing in emoticons to soothe wounded egos or ruffled feathers. It's time for some of you to stop slugging it out and revisiting the same old stuff. Call each other on the phone. Discuss it in a way where you get a more complete message.

I'm glad he's gone, and if he's really gone, he won't be missed. I don't think Little Hawk is MG.

That's my two-cents worth.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 03:02 PM

"nicely proportioned woman."
Nice euphimisim...

" "Martin Gibson":
1) wished a Mudcatter's child dead
2) mocked handicapped Mudcatters--more than once
3) regularly called women "c--ts" and "encouraged the violent pack rape of women"--(Freda 11 June 7:37 PM)"

So f-n what? It's not like it's real, or important...

"someone who has stalked me"
Who the f--k'd stalk YOU?? I can't imagine wanting to be in the same ROOM as you... I might catch Idiot Whiner from you...

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 03:16 PM

You have been in the same room with me, Clinton, at your favorite pub there in Windsor. We had a very nice time, too... after JtS and I watched your stunning performance at the pub where you had your gig. Maybe that's where you caught your raging case of "Idiot Whiner".

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 03:26 PM

LOL. Here's what you posted about it here in the Mudcat. How about reposting those pictures. I'd like to steal them for my collection...

Subject: RE: JtS &CarolC: Michigan, Chicago, Ontario
From: ClintonHammond - PM
Date: 23 Aug 03 - 11:03 PM

Well guys, THAT was a bucket and a half of fun! Only my 2nd ever cyber-to-meat-space incursion...

I told ya I'd post a URL to Len Wallaces site and here it is...

http://worldaccordion.tripod.com/index.html

I'll get those pics off the camera and uploaded likley sometime tomorrow!

Well met you 2!

:-)

Oh ya... I forgot... Devilmaster wanted me to send along a "It was very good to meet ya's!"

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 03:32 PM

Oh how times change eh.... Or to quote the movie, 'That was then, this is now... '

Cause right now, you're coming off like a total wanker...

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: Janie
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 03:35 PM

Ugh!!!!!!!!!!!!! to this whole thread.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 03:38 PM

LOL, and you're not, Clinton? Time for a reality check for you, buddy.

Subject: RE: BS: For Real. I quit
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 03:41 PM

Now there's the pot calling the kettle...