BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 May 07 - 03:56 AM

Pardon the Segue: When were dinosaur bones first discovered and by whom? Seems like it must have been a BIG day.

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 May 07 - 11:36 PM

Oh well, you can find all that stuff in the palm of your hand too, Donuel...if you want to badly enough. ;-) People find what they look for. They don't find what they don't look for, specially if they never even thought of looking for it in the first place. It's always been that way, always will be. People in biblical times had no reason on Earth to either know about dinosaurs or be talking about them in some religious text.

This subject is always royally screwed up by people who take the Bible literally as the one and only and complete Word of God...and their loyal opponents at the opposite extreme of the argument who seem to imagine that everyone who believes in "God" or is "religious" must be someone who takes the Bible literally as the one and only and complete World of God.

That leaves a whole lot of people who aren't even in the argument between those 2 zealous extremes. Like, probably, most of us here....

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: Donuel
Date: 18 May 07 - 11:22 PM

"there are also no Japanese in the Bible, no kangaroos, nothing about the Hawaiian Islands, no mention of Antarctica, and not a word about North, Central, or South America! Furthermore there is nothing said about Buddha or Lao-Tse or Krishna"


wrong


They are all there and more. They are simply in bible code...

in for a penny in for a lb.

I betcha you will find big foot, big butt and Ben's Big and tall shop' phone number if you use that bible code thingy.

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: frogprince
Date: 18 May 07 - 11:00 PM

He was a hard core fundamentalist. He said that when he started the strip he believed in things like primitive man, but after he learned better, he just continued them in the strip as humor.

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 May 07 - 10:52 PM

I thought the guy who drew the B.C. cartoons was a fundamentalist Christian - didn't that comic strip have dinosaurs? Does that mean it's a mistake to pigeonhole people and define their beliefs without giving them a chance to speak for themselves?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: frogprince
Date: 18 May 07 - 10:51 PM

Our local xtian bookstore has several books for kids with references to the proof that dinosaurs and man co-existed.(The crossing dino tracks, I think in Texas, where one set looks a bit like huge human prints right where the tracks cross).

Long decades ago, at least one leading fundamentalist proposed that the devil created the dinosaur bones to mislead people. Even most of the fundamentalists rolled their eyes at that one, but I think there are still a few adherants to the theory.

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 May 07 - 10:40 PM

Didn't Fred and Wilma Flintstone ride to their local Southern Baptist Church on Sunday mornings on the back of a dinosaur?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 May 07 - 10:33 PM

"BISHOP USSHER DATES THE WORLD: 4004 BC. . . ."

Thanks, Peace. More authoritative than my informant. I'll--uh--update my books on cosmology.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 18 May 07 - 09:07 PM

>>No dinosaurs in the Bible? Yeah...so? Look, there are also no Japanese in the Bible, no kangaroos, nothing about the Hawaiian Islands, no mention of Antarctica, and not a word about North, Central, or South America! Furthermore there is nothing said about Buddha or Lao-Tse or Krishna, though all of them were well known in large areas of the world when Jesus was alive (or at the time he was reputed to be for those of you nitpicking sods who want to fight with people about whether he even existed or not).<<

No mention of the pyramids. No mention of the Sphinx. No mention of cats, curiously enough. Whales but no cats.

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 May 07 - 08:40 PM

No dinosaurs in the Bible? Yeah...so? Look, there are also no Japanese in the Bible, no kangaroos, nothing about the Hawaiian Islands, no mention of Antarctica, and not a word about North, Central, or South America! Furthermore there is nothing said about Buddha or Lao-Tse or Krishna, though all of them were well known in large areas of the world when Jesus was alive (or at the time he was reputed to be for those of you nitpicking sods who want to fight with people about whether he even existed or not).

There's a ton of stuff that's not in the Bible. Not a word there about lemurs, trilobites, stalactites, athlete's foot fungus, the color "avocado"...

But why would you expect it to be in there?

Give it a rest. The Bible was written for the people of the time. They weren't interested in any of that stuff I mentioned above (exept maybe athlete's foot?), and neither were the scholars and scribes who wrote the books in the Bible. They weren't going to write about things they didn't consciously know about or care about now, were they?

I don't think so.

The people who presently think the world is about 6,000 years old are a certain fundamentalist splinter group within Christianity, and they do not speak for all Christians. They do not speak for a majority of Christians.

It all got started by Bishop Ussher, just like certain mythical nonsense about Columbus got started by Washington Irving. Some people will always be willing to believe mythical nonsense...as long as it's the first thing they have heard on the matter, and as long as they heard it from someone they trusted.

It was Bishop Ussher's opinion that the world is about 6,000 years old. His opinion is strictly his opinion, and if some credulous people want to go and believe it because their daddy and his daddy and his granddaddy believed it....well, that sort of thing has been going on ever since the first sentient humans crawled on the face of the Earth.

A lot of people believe silly stuff about George Washington too. That's the way it goes. People love a good story.

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: Peace
Date: 18 May 07 - 06:40 PM

Damn! Talk about misuse of the comma. My apologies.

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: Peace
Date: 18 May 07 - 06:39 PM

Having read that, I decided to send a letter to Bishop Ussher and see if he has included leap years in his calculations. I haven't heard back yet, but that may be because, Canada Post and/or the Irish equivalent are slow with letters. When I do, I'll post it here.

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 May 07 - 06:27 PM

Some of them have put $27 million's worth of credence in it, Joe!:-)

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: Peace
Date: 18 May 07 - 06:27 PM

"BISHOP USSHER DATES THE WORLD: 4004 BC
James Ussher (1581-1656), Archbishop of Armagh, Primate of All Ireland, and Vice-Chancellor of Trinity College in Dublin was highly regarded in his day as a churchman and as a scholar. Of his many works, his treatise on chronology has proved the most durable. Based on an intricate correlation of Middle Eastern and Mediterranean histories and Holy writ, it was incorporated into an authorized version of the Bible printed in 1701, and thus came to be regarded with almost as much unquestioning reverence as the Bible itself. Having established the first day of creation as Sunday 23 October 4004 BC, by the arguments set forth in the passage below, Ussher calculated the dates of other biblical events, concluding, for example, that Adam and Eve were driven from Paradise on Monday 10 November 4004 BC, and that the ark touched down on Mt Ararat on 5 May 2348 BC `on a Wednesday'."

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 May 07 - 06:15 PM

I've been told that some enthusiastically religious individual worked this out some years back. He came up with the info that God created the earth a 9:30 a.m., January 19, 4004 B.C. I understand that the method he used was to go systematically through the "begats" (a section of the Bible that usually leads congregations to doze off) and carefully count back to Adam.

I assume that, to be so precise, he had birth certificates for everyone on the list. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 May 07 - 05:23 PM

I don't know if I could say that most Christians don't take the Bible as a scientific or historical document, but there certainly a good many believing Christians who see the Bible as primarily a document of faith, not science. There are many Christians who believe that God created through the wonderful, natural process called evolution.

They see the "dinosaur dance" that the fundamentalists do, as quite entertaining.

As for the 6,000-year age of the earth - that's somebody's extrapolated calculation. Many conservative Christians don't put much credence in that, either.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 18 May 07 - 04:35 PM

>>Answers in Genesis (AiG), is dedicated to the falsehood that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, claims that humans and dinosaurs coexisted a few thousand years ago<<

And where is this claimed in Genesis?

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 May 07 - 04:30 PM

Thought this was of interest:

This Memorial Day, the religious right will launch one of the most outrageous campaigns to date in their war on science: the $27 million "Creation Museum" in Petersburg, Kentucky.

The "Museum," which was built by the religious right organization Answers in Genesis (AiG), is dedicated to the falsehood that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, claims that humans and dinosaurs coexisted a few thousand years ago, and has but one goal: to institutionalize the lie that science supports these fairytales.

This institution is only the most recent example of the religious right's war on science education - whether in the form of anti-evolution stickers in textbooks or the promotion of intelligent design in the classroom.

In all of these cases the religious right has sought to create controversy where none exists. However, in the case of the "Creation Museum" they have gone one step further: instead of acknowledging their contempt for science, they have decided to claim that science actually proves inherently anti-science propaganda.

While AiG has the right to spend $27 million promoting a lie, it is imperative that as concerned citizens we let America know the true dangers of their nefarious campaign.

If anyone is interested in signing a petition about this, please Click Here.

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 10:02 AM

Thanks Bill, I always like to see a good cartoon with heart.

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: John Hardly
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 09:36 AM

UP <<---------lighten there. (and quit being so damn condescending)

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: Wolfgang
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 09:34 AM

Then science doesn't know? *wink*
"probably"

So we're not talking science here then? *grin* (John Hardly)

'best fitting hypothesis' or 'theory able to explain all data so far' is never about knowing and has never been. Even for Einstein's theory there are competing theories. Sometimes two theories are both able to explain the data known so far (and wait for an experiment able to decide between them which is wrong, but not which is right, BTW).

I'm all for pupils learning good science and that means how to test conflicting theories and how to deal with different theories explaining the same data.

I'm of course for the advanced among them to learn different theories about evolution, punctuated equilibrium and all those, but none of the theories they should learn will even remotely be similar to 'intelligent design' or will have the age of the earth remotely similar to some thousand years.

John, read a good bock about scientific methodology.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 12:50 PM

this is not online yet, as they seem to stay a week behind, but here, for your edification, is today's "Tom, the Dancing Bug", scanned from today's edition of the Washington Post, as I would probably forget about it in a week....

The artist does have a certain leaning, I admit...but is sometimes too close to the meat of the issue for comfort...*grin*

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 12:38 PM

...nano bacteria

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 12:31 PM

I misspoke - go back fer eno' and yes, common ancestor to plant and animal. Many differences as to when the split occurred - including pre- or post en-nucleation (which they believe may have occurred multiple times in seperate lines of evolution)

there are some "oddities" around even on earth - thermo-syntetics, "sulfer eating" bacteria, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 12:26 PM

M mario & Paul Burke,
If previous life forms like the powerhouse mitochondria are hitch hiking symbioticly in current lifeforms and genetic data is sometimes passed between different species one might be able to theorize a mutated throw back to be able to occur. I have seen two people in my life that looked exactly and dramaticly like Neanderthals.

That certain life forms only exist in one small area it is reasonable to belive that they arose there and are not merely leftovers from a more ubiquitous past.

The Human Geonome Project is down the road from me. It is a gigantic facilty. It has inspired some short stories of a genre I call scientific poetry:



Deep within the megalithic Human Genome building in Gaithersburg Maryland
Dr. Mendez took a nap
and within his dream,
not a voice
but a consciousness spoke to him,
in the language of soul.
The souls of all living things
all the way back to Pre Cambrian times.

When he awoke
the meaning of his dream
was still swimming before his eyes.
He stared at DNA language for the last 7 years.
Now it all made sense in a way he could not quantify
but he knew it was subjectively true.
Sometimes the simple beauty almost made him cry.

You see, between the clumps
of familiar groups of amino acids
there are sequences we call genes
Between the genes are immense stretches of DNA
that are likened to a desert.
Some even called those regions junk DNA
since they would not correspond to any physical trait
or protein building functions.

Dr. Mendez now knows what those vast genetic deserts contain
and can read them like a book.
Like the voice of God in his ear
he takes dictation from the grand genome.
Fired for missing too many meetings
Dr. Menendez now works from home.
Writing down the common threads of life
he stacks the papers on his shelf.
He learned we were never alone.
From a greater time we are but seedlings
of our former and future self.


Back in Maryland where he worked
whenever his name comes up
you can hear people say:
"he acted strange,
he really seemed wound up."

They may never know
how strange a story
that was ever told
by so strange a man
who does not grow old
because he has the plans.

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: Stu
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 12:24 PM

It is probable that life originated only once, at least on our planet

stigWeard's Theory of Pan-Galactic Ecosystems states that in years to come we will find that ecosystems will encompass entire solar systems, and probably even entire galaxies.

Planets are seeded by metorites and comets, with planetary bombardment being the main mechanism for creating these meteorites, which then land on nearby worlds, spreading microscopic life forms that happpend to be on the rock that was blasted off the originating planets surface.

Given the tenacity and resilience of life (look no further than that for a true miracle!), it is entirely possible life is zooming around the cosmos, evolving into myriad forms we cannot even imagine. With luck, one day some lucky folks will get to go and discover all these life forms. Who needs religion to see the wonder and depth of the universe?

Hallelujah!

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: John Hardly
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 12:00 PM

"probably"

So we're not talking science here then? *grin*

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: Paul Burke
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 11:34 AM

One theory does have plants and animals deriving from the same (theoretical) unicellular life form. Other theories have them deriving from seperate lines.

Whose theory derives them separately? Both are DNA/RNA based: for two separate life- forming processes to come up with the same extremely complex answer WOULD be coincidence on a gale-in-a-scapyard scale.

It is probable that life originated only once, at least on our planet. Though it was probably based on a much simpler chemistry than nucleotide chains.

It would probably please the Christians to know that one candidate is self- replicating structures sometimes found in ....... clay.

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 08:47 AM

Lefty: Herds of 'em?

Curly: ee-yup.

Lefty: You mean to tell me they was hippopotamusboys that'd drove huge herds o' hippos up from the African continent?

Curly: ee-yup

Lefty: Wasn't they an everlovin' bugger t'try an' brand?

Curly: Brandin' weren't nuthin'. They hides're like wood'n they nary feel a thing. It's the ropin' a wranglin' 'em that's the pain. Even them li'l one's'll weigh 'bout as much as a small house.

Lefty: I betcha they made one thunderous sound when they was on a drive -- the whole herd a'poundin' they hoofs!

Curly: ee-yup. They useta be nary a hunnerd more pyramids back afore the hippo drives.

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: GUEST,Jack The Lad
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 07:30 AM

The Israeli newspaper Yediot Ahronot reported on Thursday that 6000 yr old hippopotamus bones have been found while excavating a building site in Tel Aviv. The bones are among those of many other animals all of which seem to have been eaten by the inhabitants of a chalcolithic village discovered on the site. The bones bear the marks of the scraping of flint tools , suggesting that the meat was removed for eating- probably after having been cooked.
The area was situated on or near the banks of a river or stream, and marshy areas, which probably housed hippos. this is the first discovery of hippo bones in this part of the pre Canaanite area.
Mammoth bones had been discovered in the north of Israel, around the Jordan River- but this is the first evidence of hippos, some 3000 yrs before the first Israelites appeared on the scene.
Jack The Lad

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 10:15 AM

Donuel - some theorize that RNA is a "leftover" from a seperate evolutionary line. there is some evidence that mitochondria are a formerly freeliving life form that became symbiotic with the mainstream life forms very early on. Extra-nuclear genetics is currently on about the level of understanding as regular genetics was during Mendel's day.

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 10:12 AM

Of course science doesn't know. Niether does religion. Nobody knows... all we have is theory, dogma and guesswork.

Although i will say this...if someone inteligently designed me, they could have made a little more of an effort...

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: John Hardly
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 09:59 AM

"One theory does have plants and animals deriving from the same (theoretical) unicellular life form. Other theories have them deriving from seperate lines."

Then science doesn't know? *wink*

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 09:55 AM

I have lost track of how many mass extinctions the Earth has suffered.
It may be over 6 by now. Way prior to land creatures the most powerful mass exctinction had wiped the slate clean of all oceanic life forms. The following regeneration of sea life had no resemblence to the prior forms. I assume all forms have had an RNA DNA foundation.

Perhaps on the 7th extinction Shiva will rest.

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 09:44 AM

well - when you get down to it, plants also need oxygen and produce c02 as part of their basic metabolism. However, when they are photosynthesizing, *THAT* process uses Co2 and ends up with an excess of 02.

One theory does have plants and animals deriving from the same (theoretical) unicellular life form. Other theories have them deriving from seperate lines.

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 09:38 AM

Penn and Teller did a marvelous program this monday on this very subject of Creative Design*

To demonstrate their point they held a vote on whether they believed a certain duck was male or female - without evidence of looking.
Science is not democratic.

They also made the point that there is a group called the Raillians that believe in Creative Design but the Christian Creation designers want nothing to do with them. You see the Raillians have chosen space aliens as the Creator.
















*(otherwise known as the religious fundamentalist right wing condemnation of science in lieu of Creationism)

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: Stu
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 09:24 AM

"An article in the _New Yorker_ within the past two months about Intelligent Design is required reading for anyone interested."

Have you got an online reference for this GWT?

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 09:22 AM

I've never heard that animals evolved from plants....although, it could explain why my dog poops a brick every time he sees a lawnmower. That mutt has issues, man...

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: John O'L
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 09:18 AM

I've been wondering...

Since animals evolved from plants, which breath carbon dioxide and emit oxygen, how come animals evolved to breath oxygen and emit carbon dioxide?

It's proven to be a handy symbiosis, but it can't have been in response to any environmental advantage to be had at the time surely - or can it?

Please note that I have drawn no conclusions, I'm just wondering.

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 08:50 AM

"the sinews of his stones are wrapped together."

Could the behemoth have been a sumo wrestler, perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 08:00 AM

The only one I see that resembles anyone I've seen recently is the second one down on the right, perhaps. That big mouth resembles an ex motherinlaw just a bit, maybe.

Of course the guy doing something strange with the little deer may be an ancestor of some of those in the big sheep country? We probably have experts who can advise us on that tribe.

It's probably all explained in the text, but I get a headache trying to pick out any of what it says. The document is well enough known to be translated somewhere on the web, but I haven't looked for it. I suppose it was "modern science" in the 1490s.

John

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 07:56 AM

An article in the _New Yorker_ within the past two months about Intelligent Design is required reading for anyone interested.

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: John Hardly
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 06:55 AM

What? the guy on the bottom right is practicing a primitive form of birth control by fighting off storks with a shield and club?

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: John O'L
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 06:32 AM

I dunno what happened to the people John, but that's a very interesting reference work you've thrown into the equation. I'm particularly intrigued by the bloke with the one big foot. Wonder what happened to his ilk.

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 05:44 AM

Forget about the dinosaurs.

At Nuremberg Chronicles please click on the "Sheet 12: Other Nations" thumbnail for the large view and explain to me what happened to all these other people who were known to exist (outside Nuremberg) in 1493.

You will probably need to kill the propaganda popup. It's harmless.

(Yes, it's a thread drift; but I thought it rather quaint.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: GUEST,Songster Bob
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 01:03 AM

My Jr. High science teacher had a simple answer to the question of religion -- "Religion answers, 'why?' and science answers, 'how?'"

Now, that's simplistic as well as simple, but it covers the bases, to me.

I see a continuum -- science is god-free, religion is science-free, and 'intelligent design' is logic-free. Sorry, a better answer is that intelligent design doesn't advance religion or science very much, but at least it isn't bound to the 'metaphor-as-actual-fact' literal reading of the origin stories in the Bible. Science can't answer the questions religion brings, so science has to eliminate the study of God. God is not knowable through science. Intelligent design attempts to combine science and religion, which can't be done as such.

Actually, if I were a science teacher, my 'intellligent design' course would be the first day: "The universe is so complex, many have assumed it has a designer, a creator. Accept this as a theory or not. Science doesn't tell us anything about this designer, but the rest of the semester, we will learn what science CAN tell us about."

"Open your books to Chapter One."


Bob

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jun 05 - 01:43 AM

Perhaps he noticed the very small elephants on isolated islands.

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: HuwG
Date: 29 Jun 05 - 12:02 AM

When Darwin completed his work, "On the origin of species", his publisher (Murray) urged him to add just three words, "by the Creator" to the final sentence. This, he said, would avoid all dispute and opposition to the book. Darwin refused. In his observations, he saw no evidence for the hand of the Creator.

Possibly another observer (such as Darwin's nemesis, Fitzroy) might have made the same observations, and tacked the last remark on. However, this would be an assumption, based on the observer's own faith, rather than an observation.

(The opposite, that Darwin's omission of the remark was also an assumption, can be argued. However, Darwin had previously been trained for a position in the Anglican clergy, and might have been expected to assume the presence of the Creator's hand. Finding no direct evidence for one, he changed his views.)

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: semi-submersible
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 06:04 PM

Whoops, sorry John, you did discuss it previously. Cancel thread drift request.

Subject: RE: BS: No Dinos in the bible? wtf....
From: semi-submersible
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 05:58 PM

John Hardly, your post of 28 Jun 05 - 07:45 AM is a superb explanation of what's wrong with "scientific" claims in the theological field.

I would grant schools the right not to mention the supernatural outside of social science classes, but no right to attack such concepts (unless by use of accurate data to refute faulty claims of fact).

John, can you explain as lucidly, what you mean by "Intelligent Design"? Many of us have it confused with old-line Creationism.


Wolfgang said:
One could explain all creation without god and still believe that a god made the laws that allow for a creation without any supernatural interference.
Bravo!


Though nature as I perceive it does not speak to me in voices, when I study or spend time in contact with a healthy ecosystem, certain ideas impress themselves quite strongly upon my consciousness:

The universe is complex past my or any human's understanding. It is clearly superhuman and we're part of it.

While life exists, it is irrepressible, and dynamic equilibrium is its usual state. There is a satisfying sense of beauty in this.

Whatever creative force or emergent patterns shape this bubble of life (whose operation depends on death and suffering) within the unimaginable void, that creator is definitely not governed by human values.