 sj |
||
|
||
BS: who will we crucify next
|
|
|
Subject: BS: who will we crucify next From: Bobert Date: 05 Sep 05 - 02:28 PM Ok all those that are throwing stones at the current administration tell me who will you throw at next when nothing has changed but the President?We need to be throwing them at ourselves because we are all responsible for what is not being done in this country.How many of the people that are throwing the stones even bother to get involved in anything productive?How many that are throwing the stones even vote?How many that are throwing the stones bother to try to help even just one person that is having difficulties?How many are willing to stand up and say enough is enough and actually do something rather than sit in front of their computer and throw crap at each other and at whomever?It is time for this approach to cease it is further crippleing and already broken system.All the rhetoric is just a bunch of crap that accomplishes absolutely nothing other than to satisfy someones ego that they can spell a few words and say something about something but at the same time not even take any responsibility for what is going on themselves.I for one and really tired of the stone throwing and am more than ready to try to do something.mississippitom |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Cluin Date: 05 Sep 05 - 02:31 PM That's a lot of rhetorical questions for someone who's down on all the rhetoric. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 05 Sep 05 - 02:38 PM Our elected representatives know what is best for us, regardless of what we say. (He, he, he) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: GUEST,DB Date: 05 Sep 05 - 02:38 PM I can think of a few people who ought to be crucified - or hung, drawn and quartered - whatever! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Bobert Date: 05 Sep 05 - 02:38 PM Rhetoric means asking questions that are already answered and I have seen no answers as of yet.Maybe the words I should have used are just slinging crap for the hell of it to satisfy ones ego.mississippitom |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Cluin Date: 05 Sep 05 - 02:41 PM Nope. A rhetorical question is one for which you don't really want or require an answer. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Don Firth Date: 05 Sep 05 - 02:41 PM Look up "rhetoric" in a good dictionary. Some of what you read here is ranting (which, in itself, is a legitiment form of expression), but much of it is a meaningful exchange of information. Links to articles that the poster feels other people should read, news that the media are not carrying, and much more. Also, many people posting here are very involved in political action and in activities within their own commundities. They don't just sit in front of their computers and "throw stones." Yours is a blanket condemnation that is undeserved. You might try sharing some worthwhile information instead of just venting your spleen. Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Bobert Date: 05 Sep 05 - 03:04 PM I believe I did share some worthwhile information and I believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion.I just think it is time for all of us to really try to do something about these things and stop the mud slinging.there is no shortage of blame to go around on this problem but the title of this Thread is Genocide.I think that is ludacris at best and is totally unhelpful to anyone.That is my opinion.mississippitom |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: GUEST Date: 05 Sep 05 - 03:04 PM mississippitom, perhaps you need to review your high school civics lessons. First, forget the rhetorical. This disaster was the first test of our post-9/11 homeland defenses. I think everyone is in agreement, we flunked the test spectacularly. It was the current president's administration which completely restuctured our nation's disaster and emergency relief services in the wake of 9/11. Yes? Can we all agree on that? It was the current president who created the cabinet level Department of Homeland Security. Yes? Can we all agree on that? It was the current president and his administration who appointed the two men who are most responsible for disaster preparedness in the US, the Secretary for the Department of Homeland Security and the Director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency. Yes? Can we all agree on that? The liberal and conservative movements in this country, both Democrat and Republican, have been carping at us, the nation's citizenry, that we must all be accountable. It's all about personal responsibility and being accountable. Yes? Can we all agree on that? OK. So where does the buck stop? It is our government officials whom we put our faith and trust in to protect us in times of disasters and national emergencies. Yes? Can we all agree on that? So. Why aren't are elected officials, and their political appointees (who just happen to also be veterans of those same elected officials' political campaigns for election/re-election) to be held personally responsible for the actions in the interest of our nation they are sworn to uphold and serve? That isn't crucifying. That is holding our public servants accountable, especially where they have erred, sinned, etc. It seems to me, mississippitom, you are suggesting that our public servants should not be held accountable for what appears to be gross mismanagement of both the public's disaster relief resources and abandonment of the public trust. As ardent Bush supporter and conservative columnist for the New York Times put it yesterday: ""The first rule of the social fabric - that in times of crisis you protect the vulnerable - was trampled...Leaving the poor in New Orleans was the moral equivalent of leaving the injured on the battlefield." Something went terribly wrong with the management of this disaster, mississippitom, and the buck stops with the president of the United States. He is the man at the helm of the US government. He appointed these people to their positions of responsibility and authority. He is our highest elected official. We have the constitutional right and citizen's duty to petition him and his government and take them to task when they fail us. That is what democracy is all about. It isn't about red and blue states. It isn't about conservatives and liberals. It isn't about how much you like the man or detest him. It is how our form of representative government is intended to work when those whom we trust to govern fail us. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Don Firth Date: 05 Sep 05 - 03:04 PM Okay, let me do it for you. rhet•o•ricIn ancient times, rhetoric was an art, and it consisted of framing one's argument logically. Within recent years, people have corrupted the term, using it to mean only one of the secondary definitions above, "insincere or grandiloquent language." That, of course, is what most political speeches have degenerated into: one goddam bumper-sticker after another, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Rhetoric is not a lost art by any means. But there are very few good practitioners of the art these days. Miraculously enough, a few of them can be found here on Mudcat. Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: CarolC Date: 05 Sep 05 - 03:05 PM You need to be careful to not throw all discussion that is critical into the category of "throwing stones", mississippitom. We need to be discussing what has gone wrong and who is responsible. We need to make changes in the way things are being done. There will be many more tragedies like hurricane Katrina and also the war in Iraq. We have problems that need to be corrected, and this won't happen if we all hush up and don't take responsibility for our country and the direction in which it's headed. Talk is important. You think Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin and the rest of the "Founding Fathers" just sat around talking about Britney Spears and Tom Cruise and the US just magically appeared on their doorstep one day? Of course not. They talked about what was wrong with the system that existed in the colonies at the time, and who was responsible, and they talked about what they needed to do to correct the problems. Then they acted. Now it's our responsibility to do what our predecessors did, and correct what is wrong. This begins with talking about it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Don Firth Date: 05 Sep 05 - 03:13 PM The post that started the "Genocide" thread is way to hell-and-gone over the top. But mississippitom, don't make the mistake of thinking that if people are expressing themselves here on Mudcat or on other forums (fora?), they're not taking plenty of action in the 3D world. They are. Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: GUEST Date: 05 Sep 05 - 03:20 PM Actually, first they talked about what was wrong with England. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: GUEST Date: 05 Sep 05 - 03:23 PM No Don, what mostly can be found on Mudcat are people who hate any style of self improvement, particulary when it is offered by a group who doesn't want to take all your money through taxation and want to allow you to think for yourself. This may not be the thread for this but, speaking of some Mudcat people, they seem to be in favor of ignoring many or perhaps all fact. Go check the longtime time schedule for FEMA. For many years they have also maintained a policy that afflicted area must be able to take care of itself for the first 72 to 96 hours. New Orleans was not prepared for the first 24 hours. The long time denigrated police department showed its' true colors by many quiting or simply not responding before Katrina hit landfall. As late as Saturday 9/03, the state government was still refuseing entry by qualified independant rescue people. She did make one good decision by hiring a former FEMA head, DeWitt, but of course acknowledging the fact that New Orleans and the State had no basic stste of preparedness. Why not give this a rest based on two factors; The first being we have never experienced a disaster of this scale and complexity and "we" really don't know what has transpired. I see where Putin got rid of his Submarine chief, lets' see if changes are made in the US. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Don Firth Date: 05 Sep 05 - 03:31 PM GUEST, what the hell are you talking about? Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Bobert Date: 05 Sep 05 - 03:49 PM This problem was first really brought out in the open by a writer for Newsweek magazine in the mid 90's mulitple times.No one paid any attention then as always.Yes this administration set stuff up that did not work well.Hell it was under funded from the beginning and is also nothing but another bureacracy.What did we expect?It is been a known fact for some time even before the mid 90's that this was apotential disaster waiting to happen.Politics is the reason why things did not get done.All I am saying is that we wont get anything done by slinging mud at each other.the Ploiticians love this because the focus is off them and the broken system that they perpetuate on both sides of the isle.There is always plenty of Pork Barrel to go around but never enough funds for the things that really need attention.Let me give you one example. I am a Vietnam Veteran so I speak from first hand experience on this topic.This country keeps telling the Veterans how much they appreciate their efforts and all the lives that have been lost in all the different wars most of which could have been avoided if politics stayed out of the equation.Anyway the VA health care system has never been funded as a line item,it has alwasy been funded by what is termed discetionary funds.What this means is that at the whim of whomever ,the system will be funded at whatever level is decided basedon God knows what.This past year there was alot of funds cut out of an already underfunded system.Do you know what one of the main items to be cut was?It was for artificial limbs.When we have all these poor Vets comong back from the war in Iraq they cut funding for prosthesis.I have herd nothing yet on this site or any other other than the Diabled American Veterans site even say a word about this.Why?Someone please tell me why the veterans who are of every race we have in this country are discriminated against.Is that the fault of President Bush?Do people think he is for Genocide of our Veterans.Let me tell you why nothing ever gets done about anything.People don't want to be bothered that is why.Did anyone here even know anything about what I am telling you now.If not why?The point I am trying to make is that we are the only ones who can help the system get fixed.The way we can do this is with open and honest dialogue without the mud slinging.The DAV by the way has a excellent web site and they make it very easy for people to send letters to their Representatives.I would like to see a site that had the goal of trying to really do something about all the problems we have here in the good old USA.I can go on about many other problems that are at the crisis point and have been through many administrations.mississippitom |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Don Firth Date: 05 Sep 05 - 03:52 PM FYT, GUEST. Chronology of Bush's FEMA FailureFor your enlightenment and edification. Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Bobert Date: 05 Sep 05 - 03:53 PM Look.the last thing I ever want to do is hurt someone.I would much rather be the one that gets hurt.I am atough old buzzard as my wife calls me.I can take it.I jusat think that this site and others like it have the potential to do something about the problems we have here and am hoping to get some dialogue going to try to do something about some or any of it.If I have offended I am sorry.it was not my intent.mississippitom |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: pdq Date: 05 Sep 05 - 03:59 PM "...we are the only ones who can help the system get fixed.The way we can do this is with open and honest dialogue without the mud slinging..." Very true, mississippitom, but don't expect Mudcat to get any better unless the Liberal elite stand up and show some leadership. They must discipline their fringe loonies or this place will become a complete anarcistic joke. The best minds, like Terribus, left a long time ago. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Bobert Date: 05 Sep 05 - 04:00 PM The ifrastructure in this country I love so much that I would die for it is crumbleing right as we speak.i recently took a trip with an old camper I rebuilt that was ready by all accounts for the junk yard.Probably a lot like me.Anyway i rebuilt it the best I could so I could take a trip and take my music down to a place I live in the mid seventies called South Padre Island Texas.The route I tokk took me through Louisiana on Route 20 which is a major Highway in our country.There were so many chug holes and big cracks in the road that it tore loose about half of what I just put back together in my camper.So much of our infrastructure is almost to the point of being like a third world country it is unreal.What is the problem?Politics as usual is the problem.Why dont we the so called most powerful Country in the world even have a high speed rail system so that we could use less gasoline.One word Politics.Have you ever taken a ride on Amtrack?What a joke.It is a wonder that every train does not derail.Politics of the Pork Barrel kind as usual is where all of our tax money goes.mississippitom |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: GUEST Date: 05 Sep 05 - 04:08 PM Guest 03:23 PM is parroting the right wing party line. The PR spin strategy--blame the locals and the victims. This will, of course, blow up in their faces. Local citizens have been central to the rescue of other citizens. That is who they are dissing when they blame the locals, like Guest 03:23 is trying to do (like a good Repub soldier). |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Peace Date: 05 Sep 05 - 04:15 PM "She did make one good decision by hiring a former FEMA head, DeWitt, but of course acknowledging the fact that New Orleans and the State had no basic stste of preparedness." She also requested Federal aid--IN WRITING--on August 27, 2005. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Ebbie Date: 05 Sep 05 - 04:35 PM Guest 3:04, I wish you had a name so I could thank you. You spoke truth. MississippiTom, my opinion, frankly speaking, is that you have no idea- no way of knowing - what many of us are doing in the 'real' world. Therefore, it is my opinion that you need to look to your own house first. * What are YOU doing? * Are you on the streets or in the shelters along the Gulf Coast doing what you can? *If you are not able to do that- or realize that you would be in the way were you to go there, are you sending more than just your 'spare' money? Are you giving until it hurts? * Are you meeting with like minded people in your community to see what YOU can do? * Are you writing your Congressmen and women telling them that you consider the lapses inexcusable and demanding that they - who act in OUR NAME - get off their duffs and act? That they - who are betraying their citizenry - speak out boldly of the failures of our broken system and promise that they will see to it immediately that it will be fixed ASAP, including getting ready for the next catastrophe? (* Keep in mind- this hurricane season is not even quite half over - and we know from last year that more may come barreling over the horizon any day now.) If you can say that you are doing this - and MORE - great. Wonderful. I congratulate you and extend my gratitude to you for helping restore my faith. If you are NOT, don't jump on anyone else. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: CarolC Date: 05 Sep 05 - 04:36 PM You are wrong, GUEST, 05 Sep 05 - 03:23 PM. Reposted from another thread... Emergencies & Disasters Planning & Prevention National Response Plan: Prevention, Preparedness, Response & Maintenance Response "The National Response Plan provides the policies and processes for coordinating Federal support activities that address the short-term, direct effects of an incident. These activities include immediate actions to preserve life, property, and the environment; meet basic human needs; and maintain the social, economic, and political structure of the affected community" http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interapp/editorial/editorial_0570.xml Here is what the FEMA and Department of Homeland Security people have to say about what they are responsible for. Under the circumstances on the ground at the time, because of the state of emergency that had been declared by the governors of Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama, condition number 2 applied at the time in question. And condidion number 4 could have been applied by President Bush at any time, but was not... "The Homeland Security Act of 2002 established DHS to prevent terrorist attacks within the United States; reduce the vulnerability of the United States to terrorism, natural disasters, and other emergencies. The act also designates DHS as "a focal point regarding natural and manmade crises and emergency planning". Pursuant to HSPD-5, the Secretary of Homeland Security is responsible for coordinating Federal operations within the United States to prepare for, respond to, and recover from terrorist attacks, major disasters, and other emergencies. HSPD-5 further designates the Secretary of Homeland Security as the "principal Federal official" for domestic incident management. In this role, the Secretary is also responsible for coordinating Federal resources utilized in response to or recovery from terrorist attacks, major disasters, or other emergencies if and when any of the following four conditions applies: (2) the resources of State and local authorities are overwhelmed and Federal assistance has been requested; (4) the Secretary has been directed to assume incident management responsibilities by the President." http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/NRPbaseplan.pdf |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: CarolC Date: 05 Sep 05 - 04:42 PM Let me tell you why nothing ever gets done about anything.People don't want to be bothered that is why. Well, we're bothered, mississippitom, and that's why we're talking about it. And you are criticising us for it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: GUEST Date: 05 Sep 05 - 04:44 PM From the Washington Post: Many Evacuated, but Thousands Still Waiting White House Shifts Blame to State and Local Officials By Manuel Roig-Franzia and Spencer Hsu Washington Post Staff Writers Sunday, September 4, 2005; A01 NEW ORLEANS, Sept. 3 -- Tens of thousands of people spent a fifth day awaiting evacuation from this ruined city, as Bush administration officials blamed state and local authorities for what leaders at all levels have called a failure of the country's emergency management... Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday. The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. "Quite frankly, if they'd been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly. A senior administration official said that Bush has clear legal authority to federalize National Guard units to quell civil disturbances under the Insurrection Act and will continue to try to unify the chains of command that are split among the president, the Louisiana governor and the New Orleans mayor... Bush, who has been criticized, even by supporters, for the delayed response to the disaster, used his weekly radio address to put responsibility for the failure on lower levels of government. The magnitude of the crisis "has created tremendous problems that have strained state and local capabilities," he said. "The result is that many of our citizens simply are not getting the help they need, especially in New Orleans. And that is unacceptable." New Orleans City Council President Oliver Thomas acknowledged that the city was surprised by the number of refugees left behind, but he said FEMA should have been prepared to assist. "Everybody shares the blame here," said Thomas. "But when you talk about the mightiest government in the world, that's a ludicrous and lame excuse. You're FEMA, and you're the big dog. And you weren't prepared either." In Baton Rouge, Blanco acknowledged Saturday: "We did not have enough resources here to do it all. . . . The magnitude is overwhelming." State officials had planned to turn to neighboring states for help with troops, transportation and equipment in a major hurricane. But in Katrina's case, Mississippi, Alabama and Florida were also overwhelmed, said Denise Bottcher, a Blanco spokesman. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: GUEST,H Date: 05 Sep 05 - 04:46 PM The resident Republican spin-control 'catter should be along shortly to give us the correct view on that. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Peace Date: 05 Sep 05 - 04:51 PM "Many Evacuated, but Thousands Still Waiting White House Shifts Blame to State and Local Officials" So did Bush not read the request from Blanca asking for federal help? She asked on August 27, 2005. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: CarolC Date: 05 Sep 05 - 04:54 PM I'd still like to see some explanation for why FEMA turned away water and fuel in areas that badly needed them, and why they were cutting communication lines being used by the local emergency people, forcing them to post armed guards to prevent further sabotage by FEMA people. They can't blame the locals for that kind of hanky panky. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: GUEST Date: 05 Sep 05 - 04:57 PM Actually, I think the battle for who would control the law enforcement effort in New Orleans between Bush and Blanco, is what Mayor Nagin has been complaining about all along. Blanco is at fault too. The National Guard are under her control and authority. She blew it in the early days, by not having command and control set up properly, IMO. But Nagin is also at fault for not getting those who needed evacuating, out of the city in time. There are two communities being ignored even now--the two communities that STILL haven't been evacuated: the disabled and the elderly. They get evacuated AFTER the poor. Think about that one folks. Go to NOLA.com and read the messages from the many families who left behind their own elderly and disabled relatives, now begging to have them rescued by people remaining behind doing the neighborhood rescues with their boats. You don't see any national leaders for the elderly and the disabled being invited to White House for pow wows with the president, like we did today with the Black Congressional Caucus (who, by the way, doesn't seem to be concerned at all about the elderly and disabled who still haven't been evacuated). Everybody seems a little too complacent, now that the dome and convention center are empty, and that includes the mainstream media. I guess the big talking heads don't care much about the elderly and disabled either. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Bobert Date: 05 Sep 05 - 04:57 PM I made a very stupid mistake and am willing to say so.I meant to post to the Genocide Thread and posted here instead.I am doing things and am interested in getting together with folks who are like minded to do so.I do write my representatives regularly for what it is worth and we do give as very much as we are able.I am not sure how I ended up making the wrong post but i did am truly sorry if I offended anyone.When I saw the words Genocide on the other thread I saw red.I do not for one minute believe anyone had or has the intention to committ Genocide and am totally against that kind of inflamatory talk.What is needed is calm heads and objective dialogue.That is our only chance to do anything worthwhile.I guess I am just so sick of the total nonsense that comes out of Washington on both sides of the isle that I probably have become what I am most against.I do respect any and all opinions with the exception of thos types of statements that are just so far off the mark and are intended to do nothing but do harm to an already terrible situation.Sorry folks.I will be more careful nfrom now on.I have been trying for a long time to find a site where there are some thinking people and I believe I have found one.i just need to do a better job of controlling my pent up emotions.mississippitom |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Peace Date: 05 Sep 05 - 05:00 PM What I now see is lots of spin-control taking place. Washington will be doing its best to have Bush come out of all this lookin' like the Second Coming. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: GUEST Date: 05 Sep 05 - 05:18 PM Everyone has taken note of the fact that he has held some sort of hurricane "event" every day since last Tuesday, when he evacuated his ranch in Crawford two days early. He sez to address the hurricane, but lots of folks think it was to get out from under the long shadow of his giant nemesis, Cindy Sheehan. But I fault the Dems in this too. They are trying to use this disaster to smear Bush and the Repubs just as much as Bush and the Repubs are trying to smear Blanco and the Dems. So most folks I've talked to agree with the mayor: enough damn spinning and press conferences and blaming the locals. Just get some bodies in there who can pull their share of the weight doing THEIR JOBS--THE STATE AND FEDERAL AUTHORITIES. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: CarolC Date: 05 Sep 05 - 05:38 PM Here's where Governor Blanco requested help from the Federal government because the state and other local resources were not sufficient to address the need... "Pursuant to 44 CFR � 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal." http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:VMYPiVPGMB4J:gov.louisiana.gov/Press_Release_detail.asp%3Fid%3D976+governor+of+louisiana+asks |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: GUEST Date: 05 Sep 05 - 05:46 PM Right. I've read that press release too. But what is your reason for linking to it? The Bush administration is lying, and everyone knows it. We all heard the Sunday before the storm hit, that Blanco requested federal aid and aid from other states, including a request that Bush declare the state a federal disaster area. Which he did. Which means Team Bush is a big bag full of cow manure. People know and remember that point, regardless of what the right wing media monsters and White House press secretary says. We all know it's a lie. Everyone knows there has been a breakdown at the federal level. That's been painfully obvious since last Wednesday. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: CarolC Date: 05 Sep 05 - 05:54 PM Clearly some people don't know it, because I keep seeing people saying that the Governor of Louisiana never asked for help and that Louisiana had sufficient resources to handle the disaster without federal help. And I think this request covers Nagin's inability to get everyone evacuated. With federal assistance, they could have gotten a lot more people out, and saved a lot of lives. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: GUEST Date: 05 Sep 05 - 06:04 PM Yes, but it was all rather odd from the beginning. Reason? Politics as usual between warring Dems and Repubs. The declaration of a disaster before the fact was unprecedented, but I think it was one of the good things Bush did. In future, we should be able to do that for evacuation purposes, and to get necessary items like the porta potties, water, and emergency generators in place for shelters of last resort. All the local authorities MUST have satellite phones! They had been gummed up in the Homeland Security bureacracy--state or fed we don't know for sure yet. But they should have been there. There should be a communications command center that gets flown in for use by the locals FIRST THING! The feds just don't have the local expertise necessary to call the shots, and the locals don't have the communications resources to get the word out. And by now, there should be multiple databases listing trained first responders from around the country that can be mobilized in advance of these sorts of big disasters we have knowledge of in advance. According to an article I read at, I think the Disaster News Network, the faith based orgs that do disaster relief all believe there has been an over-reliance on charitable groups by the Bush administration, that has resulted in a cutting out of the state authorities as the middle managers in disaster planning. A very real, and fairly comprehensive breakdown between the feds and the states. That does seem to be playing itself out on the ground in this case. Which also makes sense. Bush didn't want a lot of the war on terror money being diverted to states, because he wanted federal control of the resources. Yet, he also wanted to get the government out of the humanitarian relief business, and put that burden upon faith based organizations. What we are seeing, truly, is the first test of Bush's war on terror and disaster management planning and implementation of programs that simply didn't work. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: CarolC Date: 05 Sep 05 - 06:10 PM Good post, Guest, 05 Sep 05 - 06:04 PM |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Peace Date: 05 Sep 05 - 06:24 PM " . . . In fact, when winds reaching 160 m.p.h. devastated Homestead, FL in August 1992, the city manager requested 100 hand held phones. The FEMA responded by sending one of their high-tech, nuclear hardened MERS vehicles. Although capable of communicating with a fighter jet on the other side of the world, it could not even place a simple phone call to Miami. More recently, the FEMA failed in its relief mission after the earthquake in Los Angeles. Their official excuse was "we didn't expect so many victims". These incidents are just two of many examples demonstrating this agency's real orientation. Far from being an aid to the American people, the FEMA is designed as an agent of control and repression, hiding behind a flimsy facade." Seems not a whole helluva lot has changed. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: pdq Date: 05 Sep 05 - 06:34 PM ...yep, better duck, here come those black helicopters... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Peace Date: 05 Sep 05 - 06:35 PM You haven't answered as yet: what has Bush done correctly? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Peace Date: 05 Sep 05 - 06:36 PM However, regarding the black helicopters: woulda been nice if they'd shown up in the disaster area, huh? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Peace Date: 05 Sep 05 - 06:39 PM pdq: What your government thinks of FEMA. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Bobert Date: 05 Sep 05 - 06:46 PM You are saying exactly what I was trying to say when posting to the right thread.The fault lies on both sides of the isle and yes i do believe there is alot of spin going on right now as well.A lot of people wont believe that because it takes time and effort to sort thorugh all the nonsense that is put out by both sides.I have to say however that I believe that no matter who was in office this would have happened because the system is so broken it is totally nonfunctional anymore.Bob Dylan wrote a song that kind of says it all.It is called Everything is Broken.Fortunately I don't think the spirit of the people is broken yet with the exception of some od the disenfranchised. I don't have any use for either the far right or the far left.We need government that is in the middle where we live.If I really truly knew of some way to help correct the problem besides talking to folks like yourselves I would be doing it.I have not always lived where I am living now.My roots go back about 200 years right where I am now but I never lived here before the early 90's.I can't find anyone around here to talk to about anything.I love Mississippi and there are many wonderful giving people here my wife and her family being part of that group.I can't talk to anyone around here about my fellings regarding Racism though except for my dear wife.I have become an outcast here because of my views on Race and especially because I will not fly nor honor the Confederate flag even though I have relatives that died on the Confederate side and are burried near where I live.The other side of the coin is that the people of this state give more than any other State to charity.Go figure.We are on the top of the list for having the highest number of most of the bad things like drunken driving fatalities and number of persons on the Government dole and on the other end of the spectrum we have the next to the lowest per capita income.Our State govenment is almost totally crippled and almost nothing comes out of any session.We have had more special sessions under this administration than any ever before and still are making very little progress.We are so divided in so many ways it amazes me when I think about it.One thing that we are united in though is when someones house burns down or other such happenings everyone pulls together and takes care of the problem.This even crosses racial lines.mississippitom |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Peace Date: 05 Sep 05 - 06:49 PM In Washington right now, ya go to Iraq and burn someone's house down then you hire yer friends to rebuild it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Bobert Date: 05 Sep 05 - 06:54 PM I have some health problems that limit what I can do not so much what but when.I do a great deal of things and get a lot of things done running this place that used to be a farm.I am going to wait until they start the rebuilding process then take my old camper down to the coast of Mississippi and try to find some way I can help.I may just be a cook which I am told I am very good at.I also know how to do a lot of handy man kinds of things so maybe I can get a couple of people to work with me and go around fixing stuff.mississippitom |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Peace Date: 05 Sep 05 - 06:55 PM You have a good heart, mt. People like you are the reason that 'the south will rise again'. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Deckman Date: 05 Sep 05 - 06:59 PM I just learned that the FORMER President Bush will be the guest on Larry King tonight, in a little over two hours here on the west Coast of America. I might be wrong, but I expect that the current President bush is having the former President Bush "speak for him", as he knows he has no credibility left in this country. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admitt it. I think I'm beginning to see parallels now between the end of the President Johnson term and this current administration. Now, as to what am I personally doing to try to help? That's a damned good question, by the way. I'm doing some private fund raising for the victims and examining several options to distribute these dollars. I'm trying to get my one child who doesn't vote, to commit to getting politically active (my other two children are very politcally active). I'm continuing in my ongoing efforts to get us the heck out of Iraq. I am still looking for a local charity organization that can benifit from some free carpentry. (I've failed to find anyone over the last two years that meets my standards). This is being a good thread. CHEERS, Bob(deckman)Nelson |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Peace Date: 05 Sep 05 - 07:21 PM At last . . . . |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: tarheel Date: 05 Sep 05 - 09:10 PM mississippitom -you got my vote,sir!!!God Bless! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Peace Date: 05 Sep 05 - 09:16 PM "In New Orleans, Mr. Brown took a lot of people's breath away when he admitted to CNN last week that as evacuees at the city's convention centre were struggling and sometimes dying, cut off from the outside world in a spectacle being widely televised, FEMA was unaware of their plight until last Thursday, several days after it began." From here. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Deckman Date: 05 Sep 05 - 10:01 PM I have now seen the Larry King interview. It's as I predicted ... I have NOTHING to appologize for. Bob |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 05 Sep 05 - 10:08 PM No Peace - I saw that footage of an interview - just "not offically aware" ...!!!!!! :-) (scratches head...) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Sidewalk Bob Date: 05 Sep 05 - 10:44 PM Not about crucifioxtion here... 'Bout some serious failures in fundin' "first responders"... Fir those of us who have been followin' this issue since 9/11, we've read on page A-17 'er A-23 'er whereever the buried stories go, governors and mayors of both parties have been complaining that the DOHS (Department of Homeland Security) is demanding theie states and localities to do *this and that* yet not paying for their demands... Seems like we have a pattern here... "No Chile Left Behind" is in the same trick bag... Do this, do that, but we ain't gonna send you no money... Might of fact, seems like what the Bush adminstration is doin' is just like waht the corpoartions are also doing... I gotta a call from my son-in-law tonight. He voted fir Bush and now he's being asked to work 24/7 by his corporat boss, Kraft Foods. Yeah, they know that he's between a rock and hard place... Couple kids... Mortgage.. 40 years old... The usual.... But, hey, there comes a time when if yer gonna make something work, gonna take someone with the balls to write the checks... Bush hasn't written the checks... Now Karl Rove wants the American people to believe that the reason that the Bush administration wasn't prepared for Katrina was because of a few "niggas" stealin' TV's in New Orleans???? Ahhhhh, like what am I missin' here... I loves ya, Tom, but maybe you need to switch the channel to somethin' other than FOX. FOX ain't gonna give ya' much more information than what Karl Rove *wants* vey much fir you to belive... I mean, FOX is like "mainlinin'" propaganda... Yeah, I know you think they are on top of everything but the onle thing they obn top of is controlin' yer danged brainerator... Gotta get out... Gotta get out... Run, and run fast!!! Love ya, bro, but run... Sidewalk Bob, alias Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Donuel Date: 06 Sep 05 - 02:42 PM I do not see any evidence of the Bush administration to reduce the role of government. It is quite the opposite. I do however see evidence to loot the Treasury. The DOD used to be the hole in the vault. Now we have several more holes in the vault with non bid coporations as well as Homeland Security which has billions to give away. Private contractors for Homeland Security in Alexandria Virgina alone - rake in over $100 million a year. Cruxify global warming, science, gays, terrorists, liberals but keep yur hands offn the Lord. In every political issue the Lord speaks through George. This is a wonderful time for profiteering so come on down and join the party, either party really but the Reepublican is preferred by people of faith 2 to 1. http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/bushchurch.jpg |
|
Subject: RE: BS: who will we crucify next From: Don Firth Date: 06 Sep 05 - 02:53 PM By the way, "GUEST,Don Firth" was not me. That's the kind of idiotic trick (not to mention the linguistic style) of our old friend Fartin' Gibbon. I sense a great disturbance in The Force. . . . --Obi Wan Kenobe Don Firth |
