BS: Circumcision: pros and cons

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: frogprince
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 05:48 PM

"I'm swingin' 16 pounds, from my hips on down..."

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: PoppaGator
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 04:50 PM

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 10:01 AM

I ain't even gonna comment on PG's post.

Uh, lemme rephrase that. I ain't even gonna comment on what PG said in his last post.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: PoppaGator
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 09:55 AM

Nice link; here's an excerpt:

What is non-surgical foreskin restoration?

Non-surgical foreskin restoration is the re-covering of the glans penis by tissue expansion. Tape and weights, elastic straps, a traction device, or even manual stretching can be used to exert a gentle outward tension on the shaft of the penis to induce the skin to grow, to make the most of what was left after the circumcision. ... "Tugging" is a common term for non-surgical foreskin restoration.

None for me, thanks. Tape and weights? Traction device? Are we sure that all that "outward tension" will really be "gentle"? And how many hours a day, for how long, must one devote to standing still and staying at home, hooked up to your traction device or weights or whatever?

And that's just the non-surgical alternative. I don't even want to think about the other...

I think a fellow would need a big nasty chip on his shoulder ~ that is, to be excessively obsessed with "taking his body back from the mutilaters" ~ before he'd put up with all that mess...

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: bobad
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:27 PM

Foreskin restoration a growing concern.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Joe_F
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:05 PM

ObSongs: "A Little Bit Off the Top" is in the DT.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:22 PM

PoppaGator--you may be kidding, but it can be done and it has been done.
During the Greco-Roman period in Israel (Judea), many assimilationist Jews did have foreskin enhancement performed.

Not too long ago (which could be as long as a couple of years ago) I read in a newspaper that some men were having circumcision revisions performed. What some folks will do for beauty!

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Amos
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:55 PM

You need to find a source of good tips, Poppa.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: PoppaGator
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 05:48 PM

We decided not to have our two sons circumsized; they're now 24 and 27 respectively, no infections and no complaints. I have no regrets.

I myself was circumsized as an infant, like almost all male children born at that time (immediately post-WWII) in the US.

I see billboards all the time advertising vasectomy reversal. Can you get a circumcision reversal?

Just kidding.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 03:41 PM

L'chaim!

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 03:35 PM

Mine was dome when I was 8 days old. The mohel did a fine job as did the mohels who did my two sons and three grandsons when they were each 8 days old.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Wolfgang
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 02:40 PM

WHO recommendations regarding male circumcision (2007)

...Promoting male circumcision should be recognized as an additional, important strategy for the prevention of heterosexually acquired HIV infection in men....
Male circumcision does not provide complete protection against HIV infection....
The message that male circumcision is very different from female genital mutilation also needs to be emphasized....

BTW, male circumcision reduces the male's probability to get AIDS from an infected female, but most likely not vice versa

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:45 AM

I didn't have the choice as I was circumcised as an infant, as was my brother.

I don't know about him, but I've never been turned down for a blowjob by women who previously had only seen the full monty, and might give a wank but not fellatio.

I remember getting into a drunken debate yonks ago between two men, I being one, who had been , and two men who hadn't.

The conclusions seemed to me that with a foreskin you get a longer slide, and without one you don't come as quickly.

As to there 'being nothing to draw back' just think banjo string.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 02:53 PM

it is all parents duty to have their sons circumcised. my parents neglected to do that for me and have had problems with it for my youger years. i had several painful infections and the girls hated the smell and look. i was always made fun off in the locker room also. i had to be circumcised at age 18 and since then my sex life improved along with the feeling for my partners. since then my two sons were both circumcised at birth and i was present at both of them and they barely fussed at all during the procedure. we never noticed any discomfort. SO TO ALL PARENTS GET YOUR SONS CIRCUMCISED THEY WILL THANK U LATER

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: GUEST,James
Date: 16 Oct 07 - 04:51 PM

When my sons were born, over thirty years ago, I didn't even think of it till the doctor asked about circumcision. My ex-wife and I talked it over and couldn't come to a decision, so we started asking men friends if they were or were not circumcised and what recommendations they had. I found no one who regretted being circumcised, but found many, my father included who regretted not having it done. One co-worker of my ex-wife had, like GUEST,Jordan, had his circumcision done as an adult for medical reasons. He strongly suggested that we have it done while they were infants. It wasn't till after it was done that we ever met any males who had regretted having it done.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 07:23 PM

Fu#kin' good thing my farts don't have any odor.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: bobad
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 07:19 PM

Quite right jordon, all body parts that have an odour should be excised.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Sorcha
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 05:00 PM

Or, maybe some just don't have it? I don't know!

Subject: : Circumcision: pros and cons
From: GUEST,jordon
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 02:54 PM

Having circumcision done in my twenties, I can tell you that it is MUCH cleaner and doesn't have that disgusting smell. I get so irritated with people who say just make sure you clean it properly. Seems to me that's all I did and if it was warm out that smell would return within an hour.....yes an hour. So much for keeping it clean. I am VERY HAPPY I had this done in my twenties, although would have preferred to have it done as an infant. I have come to the conclusion that some uncircumsized men are immune to that stentch.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Rog Peek
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 06:25 PM

I have not read the whole thread in detail, (nor by the way had you Bill D, that joke had already been told), but I am ammazed that so much discussion some of it quite heated could have been generated by a small piece of skin.

Anyway, on a lighter note, how in the hell could the village idiot have passed his time if he had been circumcised:

The village idiot he was there,
Up to his usual trick,
Pulling his foreskin over his head
And whistling through his prick.

Sorry, couldn't resist it!

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 08:50 AM

Okay! I'll try not to quarrel with windmills either.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Aug 07 - 07:59 PM

Yeah, that's true. They invent a God of their choosing and their design and their supposition. But that's not "God's" fault, is it? It's their fault.

Something that doesn't exist, Rinslinger, cannot be assigned blame. ;-)

Your quarrel is with other people, not with God.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Aug 07 - 08:17 AM

I think it's important to get the sequence of events right. First they invent goD, then they do something in his name.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 09:26 PM

That's just them conveniently assuming that God is marching to the beat of their particular drum. What hubris! ;-)

Why blame such self-serving opportunism on "God"? Blame it on those who do it in God's name.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 09:13 PM

"And some actually think God tells them to start a war."


                      But given his credibility problem, why would they listen?

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Aug 07 - 10:37 AM

And I'm listening to Screaming Lord Sutch (RIP)!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 08:01 PM

It's no accident that Ronald Reagan and AIDS came upon the world stage at the same time.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Cluin
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 06:33 PM

And some actually think God tells them to start a war.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 06:12 PM

Hell Cluin - someone preached our recent floods were an indictment on civil partnerships!

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Cluin
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 06:10 PM

There is certainly a lot of negative stigma attached to that disease. Some idiots out there still think it's "God's Judgement" on bad people.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Peace
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 06:05 PM

I think that the world doesn not care a damn about AIDS in Africa.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 06:05 PM

Ethics! - they couldn't justify having a "control" group.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: bobad
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 06:04 PM

"If they found it was successful, why would they call off the study?"

The study was designed to see if circumcision resulted in a reduced rate of infection by the AIDS virus. Since the data showed overwhelming evidence that it did there was no need to continue it. This is common practice where studies are undertaken to test the efficacy of a drug or treatment.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 05:55 PM

'"French and South African AIDS researchers have called an early halt to a study of adult male circumcision to reduce HIV infection after initial results reportedly showed that men who had the procedure dramatically lowered their risk of contracting the virus."'


                   I read that too. What am I missing? If they found it was successful, why would they call off the study?

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 04:38 PM

Of course not to be dismissed from a public health point of view - but not worth relying on for an individual. Anyone who said "I've been circumcised, I needn't worry about getting Aids" would have to be completely off their trolley.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: bobad
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 04:28 PM

Mastectomies would also reduce the incidence of breast cancer significantly.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 04:21 PM

"French and South African AIDS researchers have called an early halt to a study of adult male circumcision to reduce HIV infection after initial results reportedly showed that men who had the procedure dramatically lowered their risk of contracting the virus.

The study's preliminary results, disclosed Tuesday by the Wall Street Journal, showed that circumcision reduced the risk of contracting HIV by 70 percent -- a level of protection far better than the 30 percent risk reduction set as a target for an AIDS vaccine."

Ok I accept that a 70% reduction is "statistical" but it's an interesting statistic and worth not simply dismissing!

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 03:42 PM

One advantage of our NHS is that there is no financial advantage for the medical profession in stuff like tonsillectomy and circumcision, so there is no incentive to encourage such procedures where there is no medical justification.

The evidence about circumcision reducing the risk of getting Aids is interesting - but it's worth noting that it's a statistical reduction, it appears to reduce the danger, but still leave the risk very high indeed for unprotected sex with strangers. Not a risk any sensible person would run. A bit like taking an extra bullet out of the gun when playing Russian Roulette, but leaving a couple in there - improves the odds of surviving a bit longer, but...

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Peace
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 01:26 PM

GUEST,banjostring, the answer is really very simple. You don't want that done to your son, then don't have it done.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Peace
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 01:21 PM

Basically, yes. Happy now?

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: GUEST,banjostring
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 01:13 PM

..so basically its accepted social & health planning..


that its preferable to predict


that millions of male babies
are so likely to grow up to be too stupid and unhygenic
to be allowed to keep the foreskins
that nature/god so foolishly trusted them with..!!!??????


ehhh..!!!!?????

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Peace
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 11:45 AM

The answer for STIs and STDs that are contracted through coitus is condoms. Circumcision is a different issue. There is statistical evidence regarding c vs non-c; however, it ain't much of a difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 07:51 AM

There do seem to be health benefits, probably a lot more in the ancient world than now. Of course, there are studies that indicate an significant lower incindence of HIV AIDS in circumcised males in Africa than in non-circumcised populations.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: robinia
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 01:41 AM

I thought about this a lot some forty years ago when my son was born and circumcision (in the US) was standard procedure. It was also assumed to be done -- and to have been done from time immemorial--for health reasons, something I had great difficulty in believing when I saw the bandaged penis and tried to imagine watching my son cut. Surely, I thought, the prople who first practised circumcision were motivated by more than a vague belief in the child's statistically improved future health. Surely, it MEANT something to them: an offering to God, a commitment . . . And what did it mean to me? That I'd gone along with what everyone else did.
   To be sure, that "everybody did it" was what my husband said; he never questioned the procedure; in fact, he thought that looking like other boys was quite sufficient reason for it (and of course looking like him). And I only belatedly questioned it--belatedly felt a coward.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: GUEST,banjostring
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 09:29 PM

well, by that logic..

surely the most effective worldwide prevention for AIDS HIV and cervical cancers.

would be to take every single [& married] todger in the world

and chop it off at the balls...!!!!!!????????


nah.. I think sensible educated employment of soap & water and condoms

should be sufficient.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Emma B
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 08:52 PM

Many of the old Jewish practices were based on sound health and hygiene principles at the time. Unfortunately, many of them (particularly the dietry requirements and those relating to contact with the deceased) no longer apply but nevertheless male circumcision does seem to have a correlation with prevention both of AIDS HIV and cervical cancers.

I don't think I ever suggested that left wing principles were in any way inconsistent with Christian principles, at least those that advocated loving thy neighbour as thyself.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 07:39 PM

"the medical industry's way of saying, "Do you want fries with that?"


LOL!!! Right on, Linn. That's my key objection to it right there. Ditto with my objection to yanking out every kid's tonsils (once very fashionable) and yanking out every young adult's wisdom teeth.

They aren't things that are normally done because they need doing, they are industry add-ons, and lucrative ones at that.

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 07:32 PM

Okay, back to the original thread...

I always figured (once I started thinking about it) that male circumcision as a cultural practice (USA, 1950s & '60s) was the medical industry's way of saying, "Do you want fries with that?" And came up with "medical" reasons to get the insurance companies to pay for it. By the way, when I was born in 1949, the hospital bill was $80.

As far as the religious use of male circumcision, it seemed to me to be ritual token sacrifice. And I wondered at its use by Christians since Christianity had thrown out the Jewish dietary laws, and other ritual legal requirements.

I've had both circumcised and uncircumcised lovers (before my marriage to Curmudgeon 25 years ago) -- and I really never noticed the difference. And circumcised and uncircumcised seemed to get the same amount of pleasure.

If I had had children, the males would not have been circumcised if I had anything to say about it. I never saw the point of a surgical procedure that seemed to serve no useful purpose but to enrich those who performed it.

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Peace
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 06:19 PM

"Is the implication that there is some inconsistency between left wing politics?"

Coulda written it like that, ya know!

Subject: RE: BS: Circumcision: pros and cons
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 05:55 PM

"Is the implication that there is some inconsistency between left wing politics and religion?"

For some people there is...for some there isn't. It all depends on whom you talk to about it. The Left is not, by definition, a movement espoused only by atheists, although some leftists will swear up and down that it is. That's their presumption. It says something about them, not about socialism. Some of the most inspired socialists in history have also been people with strong spiritual beliefs, and Jesus' teachings, to me, sound a lot like radical socialism. (this in spite of the fact that rabid anti-socialists can be found among conservative Christians...big deal...doesn't mean a thing as far as I'm concerned. Anyone, no matter what their political beliefs, may or may not be inclined to belong to a religion or to have spiritual beliefs.)