BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 02:00 AM

Yes!---and so is every country which ever engaged in warfare.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 Dec 05 - 11:51 PM

Zak, pretty good job of rattling the far-left whackos.

Keep up the good work.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Dec 05 - 08:50 AM

Damn rare breed them scouondrels

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Dec 05 - 08:44 AM

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scouondrel"

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Dec 05 - 08:00 AM

Certainly the US can not be guilty of war crimes since whatever we do we first declare it to be legal, or cover it up and secondly we are not defeated by a foreign power to bring us to justice.

We are innocent on technical grounds. It is no coincidence that we withdrew from the World Court.

Regarding the Constitution, it was recently reported that more people can recite the entire Gilligan's Island song but can not name more than 3 items in the US Constitution Bill of Rights.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: patmc
Date: 04 Dec 05 - 04:38 AM

Littlehawk
>How can you do that when people are terrified of one another, and
>convinced that other large groups of people are "foreigners" and
>therefore, in a sense, not deserving of the same rights one extends
>to one's own people? No one is a foreigner. We are all just one
>humanity.
>To think otherwise is to buy into a dream...well, no, a nightmare.

Yes... exactly. At least that is what Christ taught.. not that you'd believe it listening to some of the hate filled gibberish that "Christian" churches have been spouting. I wonder where in the New Testament Robertson got the idea that assassination was an approved form of discourse? I can't recall a single verse where Christ advocated going armed.
It is weird that the decline in average US living standards has coincided with the rise of so many blasphemous pseudo-christian sects.

I've been to China quite a bit.. first time in 1982.
In the late 90's in Shenzen there were architecture students designing skyscrapers on pcs on kitchen tables and starting construction 2 weeks later. unreal.

Actually the chinese don't worry me much but they are showing the rest of us what it means to compete.
Suddenly the US government has gone all communist with oil companies being "not for sale at any price". Hey tough- that's capitalism. the rich guy gets to buy what he wants.

China has put a massive spanner in the works of the west's entrenched "economy" (i use the quotes as our so-called capitalist economy has spent fifty years riding on the back of energy whose prices were politically controlled-free market..sheesh)

China is sooooo unlikely to start a foreign war. For thousands of years they have coped with running a huge country and every government has obsessed about unrest in China.
They have long been aware of the Rubicon threat and as far as I can see don't particularly want to have to govern 'barbarians'.
Their notions on genetic improvement do give me the willies though. Makes all our stem-cell heart rending seem like yesterday's news.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 11:55 PM

you are one crazy mofo GUEST you make weird accusations then cant back them up. clear off sonny go find a junior thread


you speek soo eliguintlee

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 11:52 PM

zak is unpatriotic because he/she doesn't believe in democracy or in the basic foundation of the United States, it's Constitution.

zak, the thing that makes the United States a nation is not its money, its economy, its material wealth, or its power and prestige. Those things are distractions, and they rob the people of the US of their very identity as a nation. The thing that makes the United States a nation are its founding principles. Without those, we have nothing and we are doomed anyway, no matter what the countries in the Middle East do with their oil.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: Teribus
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 09:59 PM

Short answer to your question Dianavan No it is not - OK?

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 09:29 PM

DV
If Bush's motivation was to wipe out the city of Fallujah, there are certainly more efficient ways to do it than sending in ground troops to fight house-to-house. If Bin Laden had the same capabilities, my guess is that he would employ them fully against any city in America, Spain, Britain, Canada, Jordan, or wherever else his infidel-radar tells him to strike.
Bush is certainly an inept blunderer, but to describe him as a willful genocidal maniac is a notion that is likely to find few sympathizers outside of the world of the Islamic extremists themselves.

I would say that, in the past, the US has certainly engaged in tactics that would fully deserve investigation, had it not ended the war as victor rather than vanquished. The fire bombings of Dresden and Tokyo during World War 2, as well as the detonation of the atomic bombs over Nagasaki and Hiroshima, could certainly be viewed as devastating and unjustified strikes against civilian targets. I believe that these attacks were basically designed to break the will of the enemy and lead to an early end to war, and were justified as reasonable responses to German and Japanese atrocities against Britain, China, and etc, although I personally believe them to be unjustifiable.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 09:01 PM

I am well aware of the impact China is having. It has affected my material costs on manufactured product, and it's just beginning. We have tough times ahead indeed on this planet of dwindling resources. The only thing that could save us would be a universal outbreak of brotherhood! Instead, we appear to be headed for further war and competition. Like I said, I am sad for the young people, specially in the poorer and less well armed regions of the World.

I look at the city of Toronto, still a rather nice city, and I see how badly it has deteriorated since the early 70's. I saw a photo of the downtown of some big Chinese industrial city the other day...mile after mile of high rise monoliths as far as the eye could see. I have never seen a more horrifying vista of urban over-development. It was frankly astonishing. All those Chinese are expecting to soon have the consumer goods we took for granted since WWII. Where will all that steel, oil, rubber, etc come from? The moon? Mars?   

People who insist on thinking only in competitive survival terms are sending this World into something really terrible. They're doing it because they are afraid of each other. They'd rather play to win than to share, but in this game there finally are no winners...if you play it out to its logical conclusion.

It would require massive peaceful action on an international level to turn things around. We need to lower the birth rate, simplify the lifestyle, distribute food and services more evenly, stop spending valuable resources on killing each other (or preparing to), and provide work and education for all people, not just those in favored enclaves.

How can you do that when people are terrified of one another, and convinced that other large groups of people are "foreigners" and therefore, in a sense, not deserving of the same rights one extends to one's own people? No one is a foreigner. We are all just one humanity. To think otherwise is to buy into a dream...well, no, a nightmare.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 09:00 PM

Lonesome EJ says, "If a city of Americans, Israelis, or Britons were slaughtered, I very much doubt that Bin Laden would do anything but issue a celebratory video tape."

If a city of Iraqis (Fallujah) were slaughtered, Bush would...?

Finish the sentence for me Lonesome.

I would finish it this way"

If a city of Iraqis (Fallujah) were slaughtered, Bush would suppress all evidence, including the attemped assassination of an international reporter and the denial of any wrongdoing.

This was an attempt to wipe out the insurgency and any resistance. Of course this failed and the only thing that was accomplished was the destruction of the city and many of its inhabitants, including women and children.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: zak
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 08:42 PM

you are one crazy mofo GUEST you make weird accusations then cant back them up. clear off sonny go find a junior thread

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 08:35 PM

Sometimes you do Zak when you have something that isnt shite to say. Americans spell realise 'realize'. Idiot. Bugger off, one-day guest and General Shitdisturber.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: zak
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 08:31 PM

GUEST what purposeful misspellings? Oh and BTW at least I bother to register a name

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 08:27 PM

Zak, you bloody twit. You are not even an American. Check your posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 08:18 PM

Those who argue that the US is as guilty of war crimes as Saddam Hussein or Bin Laden or Adolf Hitler, etc, always disregard the question of intent. Let me ask this question : If any of the above possessed a Perfect Weapon, ie a weapon that would allow them to achieve their goals, how would they use it? Would their use differ from the use the US would make of such a weapon?

I believe that a rational response would take into consideration what the expressed and actual targets of such a weapon would be. For Hussein, it would likely be a weapon that could extinguish those who oppose or frighten him, such as the Kurdish minority, while holding the Shiite Majority in fearful check. For Bin Laden, his perfect weapon would allow him to annihilate the greatest number of innocent non-Muslim people in the most sensational way possible. For the US, the intent is to identify, isolate, and, yes, exterminate Bin Laden and all other terrorist combatants, in the most efficient way possible, with as little damage to innocent non-combatants as possible. Why? Because killing innocent non-combatants does not further the interests and goals of the United States.

While I believe that the circumstances surrounding the involvement of the United States in the War in Iraq involve deliberate deception, and I oppose George Bush's conduct of that war, I do believe that the US has conducted a campaign which has had a very low record of what some call "collateral damage". Instances where American military personnel have acted in ways which provoke charges of war crime, such as the My Lai Massacre of 1968, are the exception which proves the rule. When such a crime has been revealed, the people of this country have expressed shock and revulsion (appropriately), investigations undertaken, and punishments meted out. If a town of Kurds had been destroyed by Hussein's army, medals would have been the order of the day. If a city of Americans, Israelis, or Britons were slaughtered, I very much doubt that Bin Laden would do anything but issue a celebratory video tape.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 08:15 PM

Zak is a troll. His purposeful misspelling-no one could be that bad without it being purposeful-is just a trolling technique from a visitor. He logs in under different names, stays for a few weeks and then comes back as another name. Ignore the arsehole. Zak never spent time in the military. The military wants people with IQs that are in double digits. His isn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 08:07 PM

I'm just wondering, Zak, how much time you have served in the military?

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: zak
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 07:34 PM

Guest I take it from your speeling of Ass (arse) that you are a limey. hey dont get so worked up, you limeys will get benefits from helping us in iraq, your Mr blair is a fine man , he is more like an american than a limey, hes a swell guy with principles, wish all english were like him, you should be proud

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 07:26 PM

Gee I forgot to log in that last post was from me, A Proud yankee doodle dandy

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 07:21 PM

You dont realise what is at stake, just iagine a world without:
Thanksgiving and the joy of American children opening their presents at christmas, Moms applepie, the statue of liberty, whistlers mother,
the beach boys music, surfing and all the proud history of our nation, we must fight to preserve the american dream, The arabs would only squanderthe oil selling itcheaply to Europe, europe is our real enemy we must stop their advance, God Bless America land of the free

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 07:03 PM

"We can justify any actions needed to justify our actions and we can imprison or terminate any troublemakers. It all sounds like a nightmare I know but it is needed to preserve the American way of life"

Bullshit, Zak.

The US can take on any country in the world, but it cannot fight a war on many fronts. Take your American attitude and stuff it up your arse.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: GUEST,AR282
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 06:58 PM

Apparently zak doesn't have y2k to rave about so now the world has run out of oil and brave Bush is keeping the lid on it so we all don't go crazy with panic.

zak's solution is so mature and wonderful: we must go to the Middle East and seize it and get all the oil for ourselves because the world can trust us--the Policeman--to watch over it better than those crazy fricking Camel Jockeys.

If and when we do run out of oil, zak and his ilk will be the first to take to the streets panicking.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 06:45 PM

"America exports human rights, culture and justice to the rest of the world "

And as a result has little left at home.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 06:15 PM

Littlehawk
My entire professional life has been spent searching for oil. For a long time economists have had this weird notion that the market would magic up some more- and it will for quite a while but at a much greater price. Arab oil was in blooming huge anti-clines- so big they pushed the rock into bumps on the surface. Drill a hole and out it comes. Most of the rest of the world's oil is a lot more dispersed and harder to get to. So the price is going through a step phase or shock- how hard that shock hits the western economy is the big question. SUVs are much hated by environmentalists but in fact transport trucks use far more. You can drive from oostend to istanbul in nose to tail trucks six days a week. Our entire manufacturing and warehousing is optimised for "just in time delivery" and cheap transport of people. At a couple of hundred bucks a barrel the entire carry on will grind to a halt.
And I won't start on the impact that china is having with their 20 year buy contracts......on all commodities- bought any steel this year??

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 05:16 PM

Interesting post, patmc. You may be right about "just plain old fashioned survival" rather than the American way of life being what is at stake.

Well, we'll see. If we live long enough to. I feel rather sad for the young people nowadays, being born into this deteriorating situation.

I regard this life as a temporary dream. It's not worth killing people over in order to lengthen it. My soul does not need more blood on its record at this point, nor does anyone else's. Gandhi died without killing anyone. So did Jesus. So did Buddha. They were wise.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 05:02 PM

War itself is a crime, and it is a tremendous one. The USA, like most (or all?) other great powers (and many smaller ones), has committed that crime on numerous occasions ever since its official inception in 1776. (before that the British were in charge of committing the crime)

As for techinically specific "war crimes"...well, there were plenty of those too, starting with massacring the Indians (who were themselves committing similarly hideous acts on their enemies at the tine).

The fact is, everybody who goes to war commits war crimes...whether or not they fit some lawyer's definition as such.

In a purely pragmatic sense, zak is pretty accurate in much of what he says. I think that to be purely pragmatic is to fail to be really human (in a spiritual sense), but that's a difference in basic philosophy.

I know I'm going to die anyway one day, so I'd rather die harmlessly without f*cking over other people if I can manage it. A pure pragmatist is willing to f*ck over any number of other people in order to live a little longer and under better conditions. He does not regard people of another culture or belief as being essentially as important as people of his own culture. That I call insane...and a recipe for endless hurt and disaster, but it's just a difference in basic philosophy, as I said above.

Zak's right from his side, and I'm right from mine. (sigh)

Zak, I am puzzled as to why you think the current American way of life is worth preserving? (having seen some simpler alternatives to it...)

Is life really worth living without WalMart, TV, DVDs, A-bombs, Manhattan, Hollywood, stealth bombers, football, talk show radio, the L.A. freeways, etc???? Gosh. Well, I...ummm....

Okay, I guess to you it is. ;-) I understand your position perfectly. It's so simple that a dog could understand it. Matter of fact, dogs think pretty much the way you have laid it out. They're intensely territorial and competitive.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 05:02 PM

Why do you all think that BUsh opted out of the US joining the World Court???

Guilty of war crimes??

Maybe the not the entire country but Cheney and his buds ceratinly oughtta be indicted and made to stand trial...

And Gonzalez as well...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: GUEST,patmc
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 04:57 PM

Zak
Nice to meet an honest man. Everyone likes to pretend that Bush and Blair invaded Iraq because they are either mad, Christian or both.
But...if they are not crazy though they must know something the rest of us don't.
And that something is coming to light. Oil has peaked- well it has in Saudi which basically means the world has peaked. see www.peakoil.net Matt Simmons is talking over 300 bucks a barrel for oil. Bear in mind that GW knows a heck of a lot more about the oil reserves of Saudi Arabia than most folks.
So he and Blair know that our backs are against the wall economically (our is both the EU and the US) Only France has had the smarts to build huge nuclear capacity and invest big time in public transport (with government money). The rest of us are stuck with the last dregs of oil in Iraq and Iran.
So the kid gloves are off and we are in a fight for survival. BTW not survival of "the american way of life" but just old fashioned survival.
Notice that Blair is desperately trying to build nuclear capacity in Britain.
I think they are panicking a bit. The US does not actually have a huge army- big airforce but you can't hold ground with an airforce. The job is bigger than they thought and they can't bring the draft back which is what they should do right now. The Turkish army is nearly ten times the size of the US army and equipped to a fair NATO standard barring the close air support.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: zak
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 03:49 PM

Bobad trust me nobody is bigger than this war, everyone is expendable until we achieve our aims, we ARE the worlds policemen.
We control the media, and that is the best weapon we have. anybody or indeed any country can bbe discredited.We can justify any actions needed to justify our actions and we can imprison or terminate any troublemakers. It all sounds like a nightmare I know but it is needed to preserve the American way of life

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: bobad
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 03:37 PM

"America exports human rights, culture and justice to the rest of the world "

Ha, ha, good one zak.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 03:33 PM

"We make our own reality", hmmmm? Like I said, zak.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: zak
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 03:27 PM

You are wrong I am not a troublemaker, in fact I am probably more a patriot republican than most on here, i just feel that perhaps it's about time we started being honest about why we are in Iraq instead of pussyfooting around with all the WMD bS or the al zaqawi nonsense.
We should be honest about our intentions irregardless of world opinion, we are big and powerful enough to control whatever happens.
yes there will be many years ahead of us in this war and inevitably syria and Iran will be invaded. tens of thousands of American soldiers will die too but that is the tragedy of war. To harbour illusions about Fairplay/huan rights etc doesnt even come in to it anymore, as I said we are powerful enough to ignore any objections to are actions. This is my version of the true facts and if you dont like it I simply dont care

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 03:25 PM

You're right, artbrooks. The questioned should be re-phrased.

Should the U.S. be charged with war crimes?

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 03:05 PM

Works for me, Metch. it's not quite the same article as yours. Among other things it says: "In the memo, the White House lawyer focused on a little known 1996 law passed by Congress, known as the War Crimes Act, that banned any Americans from committing war crimes—defined in part as "grave breaches" of the Geneva Conventions. Noting that the law applies to "U.S. officials" and that punishments for violators "include the death penalty," Gonzales told Bush that "it was difficult to predict with confidence" how Justice Department prosecutors might apply the law in the future. This was especially the case given that some of the language in the Geneva Conventions—such as that outlawing "outrages upon personal dignity" and "inhuman treatment" of prisoners—was "undefined."

Zak, you may not be joking but I wish you were. If you are serious, people with your opinions are the ones who will keep this country in the moral quagmire our government has bogged us down in.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: pdq
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 03:04 PM

zak is an alien from outer space who was sent to discredit the America and especially Republicans. Your first visit to Earth, zak?

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 02:58 PM

The basic requirements: accusation -> indictment -> trial -> finding.   Seems to me that we are at the accusation stage, and discussing whether or not that accusation might be valid. No, the US is not guilty of war crimes, the opinions of various people notwithstanding, since there has been no trial or finding of guilt.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: zak
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 02:46 PM

No GUEST I am not joking,There is no such thing as fairplay or human rights when it comes to war, The fact is we NEED to control middle east oil and the cost in human lives is irrelevant, dissidents should be(and are) discredited or disposed of, It is the law ofthe jungle. GW isnt of course personally responsible and he is just a figurehead, it is the great minds at the back of him that make the decisions, people who arent even in the public eye but pull the appropriate strings to ensure that america remains at the helm.
This was shown to great effect when despite all poll results and trends the election dramatically swung from Kerry to Bush at the last minute. of course it didnt realy but electronic voting has enabled us to stay on track and finish what we started. WE must NEVER I repeat NEVER be diverted from this noble cause, No matter how many die it is worth it for the future of america and indeed mankind.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 02:20 PM

I take it that zak is joking.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: zak
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 02:12 PM

dianvan you are unpatriotic, our very existence as a nation depends on controlling middle east oil, if ever opec countries decide to change the oil standard from the dollar then we are doomed.
You can go on about war crimes as much as you want but we need to preserve the dollar as the oil trading currency otherwise very soon we will become bankrupt, America exports human rights, culture and justice to the rest of the world but we cannot do this by relying on our own economy as we are not self sufficient. Look at how the euro rocketed when saddam changed from the dollar to the Euro.
We must stop europe and GW is the man to do it. We are very much in debt to China and we cant afford to let this opportunity slip to once more be the strongest economic powerin the world.
GW is a very wise man, he knows the weaknesses in europe, only very recently he persuaded tony blair to lobby for trhe inclusion of turkey in the EU. This will of course cause great trouble in Europe and help introduce radical islamic fundamentalism , but that is what we as americans need, the more we can destabilise those b*stards the more america will prosper and GW had the foresight to see this,
WE NEED BUSH.
If Iraqis die in order to achieve this then so be it but would you rather see our great land slip into oblivion?

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 01:52 PM

"For a country to be guilty of war crimes, they must be a deliberate policy, widley carried out with either orders, or at least acceptence from high up in the chain of command."

According to my opening quote, the U.S. is as guilty as any individual may be.

"To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." - Judgment of the International Military Tribunal for the Trial of German Major War Criminals - Nuremberg, Germany 1946.

And according to the links by Ebbie and Metchosin, they (the U.S. administration) know that their actions defy international stamdards.

"The White House's top lawyer warned more than two years ago that U.S. officials could be prosecuted for "war crimes" as a result of new and unorthodox measures used by the Bush administration in the war on terrorism, according to an internal White House memo and interviews with participants in the debate over the issue."

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: zak
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 01:19 PM

Yes I agree,people who try and decry the war effort dont realise the dangers of their sentiments, If saddam had been allowed to continue in power he would have continued to sell oil for euros and threaten the economic viability of america. The only way forward for the USA is to regain complete control of the oil fields in the middle east, anybody who threatens this must be despatched immediately.
Our home manufacturing base isnt sufficient to support our fine nation and we need the dollar to be the standard for oil trading otherwise we are doomed, Yes of course Saddams WMD were a smokescreen but Bush is doing what is necessary to preserve our nations economy. as unpalatable as it may seem he is working in americas long term interests

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: GUEST,Gonzales
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 01:11 PM

Wheech way to de border?

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: Once Famous
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 01:07 PM

Don't worry, Dick, I won't. Just like I don't pay attention to Newsweek or much of the very liberal slanted media, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 01:01 PM

Right on MG-
Don't pay any attention to that Un-American Commie Liberal Faggot Gonzales. What do he know, anyhow?

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: Once Famous
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 12:51 PM

No, the US is not guilty of war crimes.

But dianavan is guilty of hating the US

That's OK. She was not a citizen that I would want as a neighbor, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: Metchosin
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 12:40 PM

Ebbie I couldn't get your link to work properly on my computer, is this the article it referred to?

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 11:48 AM

I would invert that, leenia, to say: Citizens never knows what's really going on in top management"

Subject: RE: BS: Is the U.S. guilty of war crimes?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 11:23 AM

You talk like journalists.

"The U.S." does not exist. It's a huge land mass with millions of people in it. Some are good, some are bad, most are just trying to live their lives and see their children and grand-children survive.

If by "the U.S.," you mean the political leaders, then say so.

However, even political leaders do not have the power or knowledge that most people assume.

One of the truest things I ever read was in a book about running a corporation. "Top management never knows what's really going on."