BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things

Subject: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 01:10 PM

If there was a Rogue's Gallery of Dangerous Words, "all" would be in there. Now mind you, "all" is a good word. You could say "all the seats in the room were taken," and that would be fine. Where "all" becomes dangerous is when you apply it to groups of people. "All Republicans are..," "All Democrats are..," "All Atheists are..," or "All organized religions are." When you use the word "all" in that way, "bad" things happen. In your desire to make a point you oversimplify so much that the statement is untrue. If "all" American blacks thought that "all" white people were prejudiced, this country would not have made the strides it has in combatting racism. The word "all" is divisive in instances like that and it can destroy the opportunity for diverse groups to work together in a common battle against injustice. The word "all" is the darling of prejudice. It is its very heart and soul. It paints the innocent with the same brush as the guilty.

Now I could use the word "all" in a good way by saying that we "all" are guilty of using the word "all" in a bad way. It may be carelessness, or speaking in the heat of the moment. Hopefully, none of us in here use it intentionally to divide people. And hopefully when we use it to oversimplify our argument, when we are called on it, we'll recognize the harm that a little three letter word can do.

If someone catches me using "all" in a bad way in here, please call me on it. It's a dangerous habit to get into. If you find yourself using phrases with the word "all" to categorize a group of people in a negative way, I'd encourage you to stop and reflect on it for a moment.

When someone uses the "all" word to judge a whole group of people they make it very difficult to work together in a common cause.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 01:22 PM

All humans are earthlings
All aetheists are humans;
ergo All aetheists are earthlings.

If it's right, it's right.

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: *daylia*
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 01:33 PM

Alleluia!

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 01:55 PM

All is well!

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Janie
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 02:18 PM

Is that all y'all got to say?

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 02:18 PM

All's right with the world...I wish!

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 02:19 PM

Wot all's this about?

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 03:00 PM

Those is "good: alls....

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 03:01 PM

I uses alls when I puncture leather, BTW.

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Janie
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 03:02 PM

Didn't she do research on Mountain Gorillas?

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: gnu
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 03:04 PM

All we need is love........

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 04:31 PM

All generalizations are bad. Except for tautologies, and they are suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 04:39 PM

What are 'tauts'? (Ideas in Newfoundland?) I am lost here.

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 04:42 PM

I'll see your all and raise you a no, an always, and a never.

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 04:48 PM

Ah yes, BDL, In the Rogues Gallery Of Dangerous words, right next to "All" you'll find "Always," "Never" "Everyone, "Anyone," amd "No One" enshrined. Good words that often go bad.

Tsk, tsk... such a pity. And they were so well raised...

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 04:56 PM

Two other good words to avoid, especially when arguing with someone, are "always" and "never".

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 04:58 PM

Oops! Jerry beat me to it.

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 05:02 PM

I dunno Jerry, half the serial killers on record seem to claim inspiration for their deeds from The Bible.

Its in the nature of words for there to be misinterpretation, and of course we all unwittingly hurt people with our words and actions.

i don't think there's an answer to this one, it's called the human condition.....

all the best

al

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 05:03 PM

All stereotypes are based on a certain amount of truth.

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 05:06 PM

Sony, Sanyo, General Electric, RCA. There's yer stereotypes. Not all of them. SOME.

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Janie
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 05:07 PM

OK. Time to make it a music thread.

"All of me. Why not take all of me.
Can't you see that I'm no good without you.
You took the part that once was my heart
So why not take all of me!"

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 05:09 PM

Hey, WeeLittle... "half" isn't in the Rogues Gallery of Words. It only goes bad if it cannot be substantiated, and is really one-quarter. :-)

And yes, Martin, there is always an element of truth in a stereotype. It may even be greater than one-half. But it is never "all." (I think I used "never" accurately there.)

But then, ya never know.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Janie
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 05:18 PM

All kidding aside,(pun only partly intended) it is good to be reminded of this every now and then. I spend a lot time as a psychotherapist encouraging people to examine their "all or nothing" thinking, which nearly always embodies cognitive distortions. In fact, a homework assignment I often give is "Just notice how often you think in terms or speak in terms of all, never, always, should and ought. Then try changing it to some, sometimes, often, rarely, occasionally, and/or could."

All of youse ought to try it some time, but I bet you never will. Myself, of course, I always stay away from those distortions and never let one slip past me. I am also always right and you are always wrong. As long as you never forget that, we'll get along just fine!

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 05:22 PM

gee, Martin, I have to agree with you about stereotypes...I wonder if we'd agree on the details of WHICH ones?

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 05:28 PM

"All I want for Christmas is my two front teeth...."

Opps, I lied... Throw in that 3 box set of Country Blues...

...please.

That's all fir now...

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 05:36 PM

Well, Bill D, I can start with a couple. My Uncle had a big nose and most Asians have bad breath.

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 05:42 PM

your Uncle is one example of an observable phenomenon...and I KNOW that little rhythme*.

I take it you have smelled a lot of Asian breath? 50% or more? (Maybe it's that 50% of EVERYONE has bad breath...)




*The Lord said to Moses, "All the Jews shall have big noses...excepting for Aaron, he shall have a squareon."

But I know many Jews who don't...so *shrug*....do you?

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 05:49 PM

No, I have a goyishe nose.

The Lord really said to Aaron that he will break Babe Ruth's home run record.

As far as Asians go, I think it's a curry thing.

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 05:56 PM

whole reams of Asians never eat curry...which is one reason I said, facetiously, that "all generalizations are bad".....

what is sad is that people can't differentiate between stereotypes that are relevant and generalizations that are stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Amos
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 06:37 PM

Jerry has pinpointed a really interesting and valuable observation: generalities which ar enegative are destructive, while those that are neutral or positive are less so. The dynamics of this distinction are really interesting to me. One obvious difference is that we are accustomed to zeroing in hard on badnesses in order to correct them (if we're responsive at all) and when you try to do that with a negative generalization (everyone knowns you suck, for example, one of MG's favorite patterns) it is a lot like trying to step on a step that isn't there, or shoot at shadows. We feel less urgency to deal with positive things (why fix soemthing that is going right?) so the headaches are much less noticeable even if the information is just as generalized.

A

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 06:57 PM

"The Lord really said to Aaron that he will break Babe Ruth's home run record."

THAT was very good.

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Bert
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 07:04 PM

All southerners say Y'all.

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 07:09 PM

As long as it's got a Y' in front of it, all is alright.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 07:13 PM

"As long as it's got a Y' in front of it, all is alright."

I opine that that should read 'As long as it's got a Y' in front of it, all is y'alright.'

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: JennyO
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 02:34 AM

So do all y'all wear Y fronts?

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: David C. Carter
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 08:42 AM

All in all,all's well in the Y fronts!

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 09:37 AM

No Y fronts...Munsingwear only! (But why do you ask, Jenny?)

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: JennyO
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 10:56 AM

Dunno Y. Maybe I just like to be con-fronting...

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 11:18 AM

I like the following. The use of can't. e.g.

Somebody is smoking in a no smoking area. Somebody else walks up to that person and says "You can't smoke in here"
Somebody singing in the library - "You can't sing in here"

All Morris dancers are gay - well some of them may be, but I would imagine the majority aren't. Its amazing what those little white handkerchiefs conjure up in all peoples minds

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Kaleea
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 11:55 AM

Can't? Yes I can! I'm doing it aren't I?
How about "may not."
"I may not smooooooke?" "Correctamundo," replied fire officer Smith as he extinguished the cigarette and the nearby burning kilts of the dancers with one broad swoop of his fire hose.

Burning questions, all!

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 01:11 PM

I just watched one of my favorite movies last night: Avalon. There's a wonderful scene where a young boy is lectured on the difference between "may" and "can" by his school teacher. He uses "Can" (I go to the bathroom) instead of "may" and is made to stay out in the hall until he knows the difference between the two words. When he doesn't know, his immigrant Grandfather is called to school and is totally bewildered by the difference.

Delightful scene.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 02:15 PM

Weird that. My duaghter always says things like.

May you pass me the salt please
May you get me the ketchup from the fridge please

Ah well at least she says please :-)

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Troll
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 07:54 PM

MG.

Your "All Asians have bad breath" is not very accurate. The Japanese, or at least the ones I met while living and working in Tokyo, make a fetish of good oral hygene. Anyone with bad breath is quickly set straight.

The country is too crowded for any other lifestyle. Those pictures of people being pushed into crowded train cars by uniformed transportation workers?

They are true. I've traveled in China, but I didn't notice if they had any hygene problems.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Once Famous
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 08:51 PM

I thought that when a Japanese was found to have bad breath he was immediately given a knife and told to use it and go:

eeeeeeeeeeeeyahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

No wait. That was what Howard Dean does.

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: GUEST,bbc at work
Date: 25 Jan 06 - 11:20 AM

Most Koreans smell of garlic, from a daily diet of kimchee. I remember a Lebanese co-worker from my past who also smelled of garlic from eating hummus regularly. What of it?

bbc

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 25 Jan 06 - 03:15 PM

and did I mention the insidious, invisible "all." You can see its absence in sentences like "Asians have bad breath." (I'm not accusing you of being prejudiced, Martin... although you may well be.. I figure that you find it humorous to get a rise out of people even if you don't believe what you're saying) Some folks, I'm less sure.

The other sneaky thing about "all" is that when challenged, the person will admit (under great duress) that there are exceptions and then either say that the exception proves the rule, that there is some truth in every generality, or that you are denying the truth of their statement by bringing up little exceptions.

We all know what's going on..

Jeryry

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Wolfgang
Date: 27 Jan 06 - 12:50 PM

There's not only the invisible all, you can even use the in principle harmless 'some' to carry prejudices. In logic, 'some' means merely 'at least one' of the group in question, so my example sentence below is beyond any doubt just a true statement of fact, but nevertheless...:

Some gypsies are thieves.

Does it read like just a random statement of fact?

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 27 Jan 06 - 03:11 PM

Good point, Wolfgang. Prejudices come in all sorts of disguises. They are hard to root out of ourselves (but much easier to spot in others.) When people make a statement like "Some gypsies are thieves" you wonder what their motivation is for making the statement. It may or may not be prejudiced.

I think it's safest to include percentages.. :-)

Only 1.3% of gypsies are thieves. What perecentage of any group are thieves. Every group has some. Probably even Mudcat.

Thieves of time, maybe.

Always nice to see you post, Wolfgang

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 28 Jan 06 - 11:20 AM

And another dangerous word: "we." We is a wonderful word most of the time. It says "togetherness" and unity. That can be beautiful. But sometimes it is used to project an image of group approval when there is none. A statement that might not be palatable when made personally can seem to gain stature when it uses that little two letter word. "We" decided.... "we" think..... It's the opposite of "they" are wrong. The "We" and "They" thing.

When used wrongly, "We" implies agreement based more on a desire to prove oneself "right," than any common consensus. That's when it can be dangerous... when sentences start out with "we agree..." or "we decided." It's never clear to me who the "we" is, anymore than it is when people claim that "they" said.... If someone says, we voted on this, and the majority of us voted in favor. When people use words like "we," or "they" it's always a warning sign to pay attention to what is really being said.

Now If Me and Earl went down to fish in the crick, I don't see anything wrong with saying "We went down. The bigger the "we" claims to be, the more suspicious I get. Especially if there is no way to substantiate it.

Sometimes "We" ain't as many folks as someone claims it to be.

Sometimes "We" is wee.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Amos
Date: 28 Jan 06 - 03:44 PM

The core point here, I believe, is erroneous or malicious generalization; the problem with generalities is that there is no way to connect with them, since they represent an unknown number of points. You can't communicate with "they:" (another one for your collection, Jerry) or an "all"; their use is designed, when it is in a negative context, to overhwelm the individual or make him feel outnumbered and undone by a multiplicity that does not, in fact, exist.

There is no they there.


A

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Jan 06 - 03:39 PM

"The Lord really said to Aaron that he will break Babe Ruth's home run record." (It is also not original to this thread.)

Speaking of always, I remember overhearing something when I was a kid that made me laugh. A whiny little brother was urging big sis to do something and said, "We always do that, sometimes."

Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 07:23 AM

VERY GOOD YOU ARE RIGHT