BS: Scent Free Environment

Subject: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:11 AM

companies have banned smoking inside and out by a declared distance, I can certainly understand that .... but with now declaring they are a 'scent free environment', I think peeple are now bordering on lunacy .... "write up Jones, I detect he's wearing Brute again, and Lizzie down in Accounts Payable, I picked up the scent of Chanel by her cubicle ... they have both beened warned, they know the rules .. sack the both of them, now!"

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:14 AM

Actually, I'd far rather have perfumes banned than cigarettes.... at least one doesn't bathe in cigarettes unlike some women I know who don't think the atmosphere is polluted enough without adding 15 gallons of 'Lovely' or that godawful thing that Gautier came up with per cubic yard of space. At least one can ask the smoker to cease or move.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:20 AM

'Poison' that's the one that gets me it's so all pervading, yet in small doses I love it.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:21 AM

Yeah ... I think every one should were industrial grey suits, very common in cut, short hair, they should all bathe daily using the same soap issued by our government. The workplace should be only be of one colour in all firms across the nation and they should all be common beige. .... really,peeple are becoming a bunch of whinnies and what I described will become a reality soon at the rate we are going ... I personally have never been offended by somone's 'perfume', sure some I don't like, but then some peeple wear clothes I don't like.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:25 AM

I also don't like the smell of popcorn cooking in an office lunchroom (this seems to be immune to the 'no scent' policy) .. but I wouldn't suggest that be banned ... I also hate the sound of chip/crisp bags, and it's you usually see the ones who complain about someone's perfume gobbling and munching down bags of popcorn anyway.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: JennyO
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:46 AM

I think everyone is missing the point here. Some people are ALLERGIC to perfumes. In our choir we had someone who was, and out of consideration to her, we avoided wearing them at practices.

In some people the effect can be quite drastic, even life-threatening. See here

I would think that the companies who declare they are scent-free are considering their employees.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:51 AM

Well 6 I think what is meant is the person who uses perfume not as an embellishment of her personality, but in place of it!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:53 AM

Yeah .... pretty soon some people will come up with some lame brained malady that is induced by the colour yellow ... come on now. I also assume you are not Roman Catholic, Bhuddist, ... because of the practice of using incense would drive the flock away.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: MMario
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:56 AM

sIx - I scoffed too, until the night I watched helplessly as a dear friends breathing passages closed to the point we nearly had to call an ambulance - If we had been unable to get her outside and away from the source of the perfume she would have required medical attention - as it was our party had to have our meals packed up because she was unable to re-enter the restauraunt.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 11:03 AM

If someone is susceptable to an allergic reaction (and these peeple are certainly a very small minority) ... move them away from ndividuals who want to excercise their personal right to wear a 'perfume' ... companies that excercise these rights also have very large Human Resource departments ... gotta keep them busy somehow.

There is an elderly lady I know who has been working for years in a low level clerical position ... has been wesaring her favourite 'perfume' for years now, and she does not plaster it on .... she was hauled in by her Human Resources' department and written up and warned not to again ... needless to say this lady was devastaded ... mind you she has been doing her job efficiently for years, never complains, never asks for anything ... and yet some big mouthed whinnie complained cause she 'didn't like the smell'.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 11:06 AM

MMario ... are you sure it wasn't the food ... this person certainly has been going to other resteraunts, malls, etc. coming inot contact with all kinds of peeple 'wearing perfumes' up until then? Why was this nite the nite she had the severe reaction?

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 11:13 AM

Tartrazine a YELLOW food colouring which produces allergies in some people.
G

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 11:18 AM

If companies are really concerned about the 'health' of employees remove vending machines carrying disgusting unhealthy foods, remove all carpets as these are carriers of lethal molds and allergenic dust and other know carcinogens.

Hummmpfff there, have a go at that.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: MMario
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 11:18 AM

as with other allergies - repeated contact can cause more and more severe reactions - specifically she had developed a problem with rose perfumes - and what probably triggered the reaction was a women who was DRENCHED in a rose scent (you could actually taste it in the air) - granted - an extreme situation and an extreme reaction (the women was asked to leave shortly after we left - sevral parties at the restuaraunt complainied)

But severe sensaeivities to scents are really a problem for some people - very different from what you mention in your post of 11:03

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 11:18 AM

There ya go Giok !!

I want the colour yellow banned at my work place.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 11:21 AM

I agree MMario ... if someone drenches themselves, than that is an issue, as one with poor hygiene ... who does 'stink' and is spreading disgusting bactria ... it's all down to common sense and respect.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 11:46 AM

This is not something as simple as you make it out to be sIx. It is not a joking matter. It is not as simple as someone being offended by perfume or the smell of popcorn.

Many of the perfumes, deodrants and even dryer sheets that people are joking about contain chemicals that appear on the EPA and other organizations lists of hazardous chemicals. Many chemicals are compounds and come from benezend derivates. Lovely items such as acetone, methylene choloride, camphor and ethnol can be found in these products.   Dryer sheets have been found to contain chloroform.

These chemicals can be traced to a number of diseases and conditions. Aside from damage to the lung and liver, they can also affect the central nervous system and studies are finding they may link to Alzheimers.

Some people are affected more strongly than others.   A good friend to the folk music world, Angela page, is a viction of mytoxin poisoning. Angela was one of the founders of Speakeasy in NYC, she was heavily involved with Fast Folk, currently hosts a folk music radio program on WJFF in NY state, and before this problem she seen as an MC at concerts and festivals across the country and in Canada. Her condition, sparked by exposure to mold, has left her unable to interact as you and I would. She needs to wear a mask to go out in public, her home had to be done over - removing all carpeting and bedding. She needs to use HEPA filters. Her life, and that of her family, has been severely impacted.   Her story can be found here, along with numerous articles -Angela's story

Without knowing what these items can do, it easy to make jokes and pooh-pooh the whole idea.   30 years ago, you would not think to complain about someone smoking a cigarette in an office next to you. We just dealt with it.   This may be the next battleground.

Take a look at the list of ingredients in some of the products that you use.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 12:01 PM

Yeah Ron ... I know .... what's the next battle ground after the war on scent?

I'm very well aware of the ingredients in products that we (my wife and I do not use) .. we are also aware of the ingredients of the food we eat ... and because of that I don't have to wear deodorant ... but what about one wearing s a scent of complete natural ingredients ... guess one will also get written up and threatened with termination from their place of employment.

As I mentioned, a 'scent free' environment of the workplace is pretty draconian when other more dangerous factors are overlooked.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 12:11 PM

"what's the next battle ground after the war on scent?"

Perhaps education

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 12:15 PM

Example being Ron ... at my workplace (and I'm sure the same at my friend the little ol lady threatned with termination) they have donut fridays .. lotsa donuts, cakes and crap for everyone, pizza and hamburger lunches ... good healthy foods laden with trans fats ... you bet you can see the peeple who would complain about someone wearing a scent of whatever wolfin' down that food ... we have private contract cleaners that come in every nite ... yup, no detection of the cleanser oder, but I'm sure no one has a clue what the ingredients are.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 12:16 PM

"Perhaps education" ... now that I agree with ... that should be the number one priority!

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 12:19 PM

If you are sitting next to me gorging yourself on pizzaburgers and donuts, my health is not affected. You should be concerned for your own health.

If you are sitting next to me with clothes wearing Old Spice or clothes that have been cleaned with dryer sheets, my health could be affected.

You probably should ask to see what is in the cleansers that your cleaners are using.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 12:23 PM

If we educate each other as to the potential problems with "scents", it may make the change easier to understand and deal with. It is not "draconian", it sounds like you just haven't been exposed to the facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 12:29 PM

It shouldn't just be me ... it should be the Human Resources department, the ones who make up such rules about 'scent free' environment, they should also be more responisble than handing out and encouraging the weak hearted to eat unhealthy foods ... I guess we should stay away from malls, theatres, sporting events in case we come across some guy wearing his old favourite Brute, or some old lady wearing her favourite Chanel #5 .... man o man, Ron it's a dangerous world out there. I think they should make it illegal period .... a complete scent free world, even have some scent police driving around arresting old ladies, sending them to gulag or whatever, yeah they can even cut down apple trees, don't want the sweet, sweet aroma of apple blossoms drifitng over to my neighbours yard ... don't ya think, in some cases the more we make our world a safe place, the more we are making it dangerous to live. Usually the ones who complain at the work place about the one's who wear scents are the ones who are miserable in life anyway.

Education is the answer, education and choice.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 12:31 PM

"I've been exposed to the facts Ron ..... I also am aware of priorities.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 01:10 PM

With all due respect, I don't think you are sIx. Man o man sIx, you are have formed an opinion and appear to disregard the facts.

You created far-fetched examples and scenarios. You can't outright "ban" smoking, nor can you "ban" scents and I think you realize that. The "scents" that are being discussed are not apple blossoms or other natural "scents". What is being "banned" are scents that are made by chemical compounds that are found in perfumes, deodorants and dryer sheets (among other items).

You are certainly old enough to remember when smoking was allowed in all the places that you mentinoed malls, theaters and sporting events. People did not question the health risks and took it all in. It was the work of lobbyists, often fighting against the corporate tobacco industry, that made the change. Most people (aside from smokers) do not question the policy anymore and are quite pleased with it.

Will they ever ban perfume and deodorant from a shopping mall? Probably not. Will changes be made in how these items are created occur?   Perhaps, if enough people are educated.   

It is not simply "choice". It is how your choice effects someone else, like smoking. If you are going to effect me, then it is a concern.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 03:39 PM

I can understand how some people may be allergic to scent but can't understand how they avoid it without living in a bubble?

Do they travel by train, plane, bus or tram? Do they shop in shops with people? Do they go to the cinema? Do they eat in restaraunts? Do they attend church? Do they go to wedding/funeral/christening parties? Do they go bowling? Do they frequent art galleries/theatres/libraries. Do they visit their childrens schools?

How do they cope? Banning scent in a workplace sounds extreme.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Bert
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 03:46 PM

Tree is allergic to almost all perfumes. She won't visit stores like Hallmark where perfume is all pervasive.

Excess perfume users should be treated in the same manner as a person who sets off a stink bomb in a store would be treated.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 03:47 PM

"I can understand how some people may be allergic to scent but can't understand how they avoid it without living in a bubble?"

That is the problem.

Not everyone is going to have an extreme reaction to scents. The problem is that the chemical "scents" can cause potential problems to anyone. It may be the post nasal drip that you suffer, or the hacking cough, or other seemingly unrelated issues. It may be that Alzheimers and cancer patients can trace their conditions to chemicals that cause these scents.

Personally, I detest the smell of cloves. It can make me feel nauseous, although physically it doesn't hurt me.   Do I think cloves should be banned? Of course not.   Roses can affect my hay fever, but I enjoy gardening.

The "issue" is that certain scents can be harmful to others, just like cigarette smoke. Personally, if you choose to smoke - knock yourself out. It is your life. Just don't do it around me. It is my life too. Chemical scents, which is what they are trying to ban, is the cause of the issue. How companies are educating their employees will determine how successful it is.    People, like our anonymous guest and sIx, may feel that their rights are being violated.   At the same time, they fail to see how they are impacting on the rights of others.

It isn't easy to change.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 03:49 PM

Ok ... Ron ... I'm not disregarding facts, sure some of them are exaggerated (to get a point across on how ridiculus this rule of employment is) ,i am talking about banning from a workplace, and threatening an employee with termination (new lingo for firing) of their employment for wearing a reasonable amount of 'perfume', and yes, it could apply to a natural scented product ... that's what I'm talkin about.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 03:53 PM

"Excess perfume"

That's the point ... and I had also mentioned if someone cooks popcorn in the office lunch room is exempt .. though to someone as myself I find it offensive, it makes me gag ... but guess what, I stay away from the lunchroom when someone is cooking it ... I also stay away from a sneezing employee who is not banned from work (and who knows where that sneezy person spent the nite on top of it all ?!?!?).

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 03:55 PM

Good point Ron ... I too enjoy gardening, but am allergic to certain plants ... I also have dogs and cats, I'm allergic to them, sometimes I have a bad spell but most of the time I don't ... I learn to live with it.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: artbrooks
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 03:57 PM

People have a right, a legal one, to have a workplace that is as safe and healthy as possible. Workers are stuck in one spot...they do not have the option of going someplace else, as does the person exposed to an allergen in a shopping center. And, why should the person having a reaction be the one to have to move to a different work area (mentioned in the 11:03 AM post) rather than the one who caused it? What if both have specialized jobs and that is the only place that they both can work?

As a former Human Resources person, let me say that companies are deathly afraid of being sued for not taking action after they have been warned of a situation. If employee X comes in and says that employee Y's perfume is making him sick (hopefully he has said something already to employee X and X refused to do anything about it), and management doesn't take action to correct the problem, than management may be liable for medical costs and "pain and suffering" damages.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:00 PM

That's a good point Art ... the company is worried over being sued .. not the employee's right.

This is the point I was waiting for.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Sorcha
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:02 PM

Drives me mad that I can't buy un scented dryer sheets!

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:02 PM

Six - I wish you could spend just one hour with one of the women in my office. She wears so much perfume that it's enough to gag a maggot.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:04 PM

And that's why employees with colds are not banned ... during the cold season the workforce and productivity would be hit hard .. hard to sue someone if ya get pneaumonia ... just blame it on some unknown person ya passed by at the mall.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:06 PM

I could imagine ... you should smell this guys lunch at work ... every day he microwaves a bowl of tuna ... jeeezuz god almighty !!

It's a hard cruel world.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:06 PM

sIx, you keep mixing the hypothetical with the real.   When you exaggerate, you lose the point of the discussion. You are trying to twist the rule to meet your preconceived notion of the policy.

In the case of the elderly employee that you mentioned, you said the woman was "written up".   Did she receive the policy? Did she follow it?   Was she given a verbal warning? IF she was hauled into the HR department and written up without being forewarned, than I do agree with you - it was wrong.   HOWEVER, if she was previously made aware of the policy and violated it, then it sounds like they took the proper action. It would probably be the same treatment she would have received if she lit up a cigarette.

The purpose of "scent free" is not to eliminate all smells. In fact, many places are calling their programs "scent-reduced". The idea is to avoid the chemicals, not the smell of a flower. I am sure you won't be arrested the next time you pass gas in public. If you wear a rose, you won't be arrested.

These are the same arguments that were raised when smoking was "banned".   There are still some old farts that whine about that. The ones who won't have a problem are usually the young, especially children who will be taught the proper respect of others from the start.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:14 PM

"That's a good point Art ... the company is worried over being sued .. not the employee's right.

This is the point I was waiting for."

And that is a very good point, and not one that I have a problem with. A company is not only involved with making a profit. Lawsuits can effect the shareholders and impact on other employees. A company can rightfully be sued if it fails to take action, as Art mentioned.

And you make an extremely good point about a person with a cold. I don't think most companies appreciate employees coming in when they are sick. When they share that cold with others, an epidemic can occur that will slow down the operation and effect the productivity.

I also agree with you about tuna. I can't stand the stuff! My wife and I will have separate meals when she wants tuna and I will go into another room to eat!

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:15 PM

I get the point Ron .... I wish companies would educate, which they don't and didn't in this situation ... but I'm tellin ya, ya gotta draw the line ... if this lady was wearing a natural 'perfume' and someone complained (which I bet someone did, we all know there are those around) she would still be hauled in ... there is no stipulation on what chemical makes up the scent ... and it's not at all like smoking which is proven it is dangerous to all humans. I know this sounds crazy but I bet someone will jump some female employee at work somewhere, some place, rape her and get off for some crazy reason as to blame it on the colour of her skirt... which will set precedent somewhere that woman shouldn't were a certain colour skirt because some male species will turn aggresive because of it.

BTW ... not trying to be a crank with this thread, just trying to bring up some crazy issue that I think can turn something into being crazier.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:21 PM

Are my rights being violated when someone puts the key in their car ignition? I just think banning scent in the workplace is a laughable attempt at cleaning the air. Totally out of perspective but takes the attention away from the gas guzzlers.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Kaleea
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:22 PM

This is no joke to me.
While I do not live in a "bubble," I do have to avoid many people & places as I am quite allergic to scents, chemicals, smoke, and other things which used to not be found in abundance in the everyday environment. These types of things will cause me to become ill with a complete upper respiritory infection requiring antibiotics and several weeks of recovery.
    I have no moral objection to persons killing themselves with tobacco smoke, but since moving to San Diego, I no longer have to deal with it in public places--it's against the law. A given perfumes is now made with hundreds and hundreds of manmade ingredients, many of which cause breathing problems for lots of people--not just a few.
I never had these "allergies" years ago. The Dr. told me that it is due to the hundreds of thousands of chemicals and pollutants in our everyday products & therefore in our air--not to mention all of the air pollution from autos, factories, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:25 PM

sIx, my friend; engage the first rule of being in a hole ...

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:27 PM

What is a "natural perfume"? Most "natural" products have a scent that will fade away rapidly. The perfume industry, which for decades did not reveal the ingredients in their products, added chemicals to make the scent stick around and to permeate the air around it. THAT is where the troubles begin.   A bottle of Chanel does not act the same way as a lily of the valley petal.

As for your rape analogy, that is just silly and far-fetched.   However, if you wish to use that, IF there was scientific evidence that a certain color would cause such behavior - then of course it should be banned.

We do not live in a world of "what ifs". We deal with the truth that is set in front of us.   Chemicals cause problems. I forgot to add the issue of asthma.   Asthma rates are at the highest levels ever. It coincides with the increase in the use of fragrances, which according to a study I read has increased tenfold since the 1950's (http://www.fpinva.org/)   It is more than just a coincidence.

It wasn't that long ago that people thought nothing of dumping sewage in rivers, factories burning chemicals into the air, garbage being dumped into our environment.   We've educated ourselves intow working to correct these problems so that we can again swim in our rivers and breathe the air. Now, the battle over scents and fragrances has gained some attention.   Far from being a "draconian" imposition in our lives, it may be an opportunity to change the way we think.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:29 PM

"Are my rights being violated when someone puts the key in their car ignition?"

Yes they are.   That is why we are fighting for hybrid cars and cleaner emmissions.

"I just think banning scent in the workplace is a laughable attempt at cleaning the air. Totally out of perspective but takes the attention away from the gas guzzlers."

Are you suggesting one battle at a time?   One does not negate the other.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:32 PM

If the gas guzzling battle was won people wouldn't be allergic to minor pollutants like scent maybe? But that's far too big and costly to oppose so lets hit the old dear wearing the scent. Sorry but the time and energy could be better spent trying to win the first battle first.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:36 PM

"If the gas guzzling battle was won people wouldn't be allergic to minor pollutants like scent maybe? But that's far too big and costly to oppose so lets hit the old dear wearing the scent. Sorry but the time and energy could be better spent trying to win the first battle first. "

Sorry guest, but I disagree. It is more than being "allergic". This can be just as dangerous. Read up on it and then post again.

You are right, but it is more than just a "gas guzzling" battle. It is how we use our resources.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:38 PM

I will never carry a pomegranate stuffed with spices and rose petals again !

So, Ron ... does this mean the Catholic Church, and Bhuddist temples will have to change there ways (no more incense) after the war of the scents and us scentless or sensless people have to succumb to the Brave New World of no more scents and smells.

Personally ... I think there are more battles and wars that would take precedent over the War of the Scents.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:42 PM

Catholic Church, and Bhuddist temples

stiletto heels are banned from churches and temples ...

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:43 PM

Tackle the root cause Ron. They don't want to. Now why do you think that may be? When the US starts showing the world it has decreased it's obscene consumption of our resources. Then we can wage the battle on the old dears. Until then it is laughable.

I;m allergic to grass pollen, but then I'm not a professional landscape gardener. My nephew is severely asthmatic but there's sweet fa he can do about the fumes being spewed out as he walks to school.

Like I said it's nothing more than shoddy lip service to detract from the real damage being done. But hey, how much taxation revenue does a bottle of chanel No 5 raise?

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Bert
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:45 PM

I think that the answer here is REASONABLE USE. People wearing perfume are OK. Those marinading in it are not.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:46 PM

theBigPinklad .... are chelsea boots with cuban heels banned?

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:47 PM

That is the bottom line Bert ... we are adults, reasonable use should be acceptable.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:52 PM

And what's reasonable use of a gas guzzler for asthmatics? But I suspose it's a lot easier to walk up to Mrs. Mulligan in accounts and say, " Look lady your eau de temps is choking me, you're fired."
Than stand in the middle of a freeway shooting the tyres of every over indulgent pleb in a SUV going to pick up the cat from the vet.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:56 PM

"does this mean the Catholic Church, and Bhuddist temples will have to change there ways (no more incense)"

I don't know about the Buddists, but there are many Catholic Churches that no longer use incense and are "scent-free".   Others do warn their parishioners of when it will be used and offer alternative services.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:58 PM

It's good to hear the Catholic Church is on the road to civility Ron.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:59 PM

Can we please ban flowers too, and sticky donuts and fizzy drinks. Some people are allergic to bee stings you know. Imagine the bees that would fly elsewhere if they didn't have a tin of coke to buzz around. They would have to flap their little wings to a far less enlightened land.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:01 PM

"it's nothing more than shoddy lip service to detract from the real damage being done"

I'm sorry, but you are wrong.   

Your points about gas guzzling and consumption are very well taken, and it appears from your arguements that you have an issue with the automotive industry. Rightfully so.   However, to say that the issue of "scent-free" is a smokescreen (ouch!) is wrong.   

These are issues of great importance to many people. You cannot say with certainty that your nephews asthmas is ONLY affected by pollution from cars.

I am sure your nephews asthma has not been helped by these issues.   My understanding that asthmatics who avoid ALL of these pollutants have fewer episodes and can function. If ALL of these issues were dealt with, your nephew would be able to enjoy more things in life.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:01 PM

That will be in phase II of the War on Scents Guest. First we have to rid the world of the Miss Mulligans. As you said they are the easy targets.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:04 PM

"Can we please ban flowers too, and sticky donuts and fizzy drinks. Some people are allergic to bee stings you know. Imagine the bees that would fly elsewhere if they didn't have a tin of coke to buzz around. They would have to flap their little wings to a far less enlightened land."   

"First we have to rid the world of the Miss Mulligans."

You both are being silly.   You are smarter than that.   If you take a few minutes to do a little research you would not be as flip.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:08 PM

Ron my nephews doctor can say with some authority what is triggering his asthma though. I don't have issues with the automotive industry. I have issues with selfish people who give no thought for the damage they do in their day to day life. When they put twenty dollars on to the price of gas then I'll start the leaving collection for Mrs. Mulligan.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:11 PM

"I have issues with selfish people who give no thought for the damage they do in their day to day life. "

So do I.

That is why I think the issue of fragrances, which effects more people than you realize, is just as important a battle to fight as that with the automotive industry.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:12 PM

I still think there are more targets of prority before we hit miss Mulligan, on our road to Nirvana ... plastics industry, carpets ...

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:12 PM

Silly? Us neigh and neigh again.

What are the rights of someone with a bee sting allergy if they get stung in the office, because Billy Boy has hit DunKin' Donuts on the way in to work (again) and is attracting unnecessary bees in to the office environment. It obviously isn't Mrs. Mulligan's perfume that's attracting them, because she has been put out to pasture long ago.

That's not silly to the poor post boy writhing around the carpet tiles with his throat swelling at a rate of knots.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:14 PM

number 6 I do believe we have just had a karmic 'carpet' moment.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:15 PM

Actually I have been there Guest ... I'm allergic to bee stings and have had to been taken to the hospital.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:16 PM

Very good ... karmic 'carpet' moment !

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:17 PM

I think you are both smoking that carpet.

Give us a break guest. You make a ridiculous situation that just sidetracks the issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:20 PM

Not reeally Ronny ... carpets are actually very dangerous to peeple's health ... the bacteria they attract, mold, carcinogens. A hell of a lot more dangerous than the miss Mulligans in the workplace.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:24 PM

Number 6 I have done the same for someone who had just discovered they were allergic to kiwi fruit. Ron, allergies are far from silly.

It is futile to legislate against everyones source of allergy. There are bigger pollutants to fry. Like I said twenty dollars on the price of gas, enforced car sharing schemes, limiting car size to actual need, congestion charging and functioning public transport systems and then we can embark on the war on scent with healthier lungs and clearer thinking brains.

Until that moment in time it IS laughable.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:27 PM

Why is allergy to bee stings ridiculous Ron? Why is Billy Boy allowed to attract the source of the poor postboys allergy, but Mrs Mulligan has to be fired?

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:28 PM

It is actually carpeting that contributed to Angela's condition.

I see where this is going. When logic fails, you go for the absurd. Making jokes about something that you are not familiar with will not change the facts.   READ up on it. Do a few searchs for chemical poisoning, scent-free, etc.

No one is saying Miss Mulligan is public enemy #1. The issue is that she may have ignored the policy (on purpose perhaps?) and does not realize that she COULD be harming others, as well as herself.   She is not a criminal, nor is anyone making her out to be. But if she ignores the rules in the workplace, she should be dealt with. If you sit at your desk and do nothing but type on Mudcat all day(oops) and your boss complains, you still ignore the order and continue typing, and then he writes you up - who is wrong?    When a "rule" is established in an office environment and the consequences known, you deal with it.

If Billy Boy is bringing bees into the office, or creating an environment where they will come in, then his superiors had better correct the work environment before that poo post boy gets stung by the bee.

Lets stop dealing in the absurd and look at the reality of this.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:32 PM

Thank you Ron, you just have dealt with the reality of it. Every single one of us is guilty of causing an allergic reaction in someone else. And you don't need to insult the post boy further by calling him poo, that's a step too far.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:33 PM

You see guest, this is why you are wasting everyones time -

"Why is Billy Boy allowed to attract the source of the poor postboys allergy"

Read my previous post. Billy should not have been allowed. The company would be liable if they knew of the situation and did nothing about it.

"Why is allergy to bee stings ridiculous"
It is not ridiculuous. The point of "scent-free" is to reduce the risk.   Bees are naturally occuring, but if a workplace were to create an environment that encourages the gathering of bees, then they are wrong.

"Ron, allergies are far from silly."
I never said they were. We aren't discussing allergies here - we are discussing exposure to chemicals.

"It is futile to legislate against everyones source of allergy."
That is correct. You cannot force me to eat a kiwi if I am allergic. That is why packaging of products is supposed to clearly label the ingredients. That is why peanuts are so clearly labeled, because they can be deadly. Look at your Chanel #5 and tell me what is in it.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:34 PM

"you don't need to insult the post boy further by calling him poo, that's a step too far. "

I would tell you to bite me, but I would probably catch something.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:37 PM

Buy me some and I will. Ron if I am wasting your time use it doing something constructive . If you think every rule is meant to be blindly followed without questioning it's total lack of perspective that's your choice. It isn't mine.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: leftydee
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:48 PM

Face it... life has odors. Some can't be avoided, others can. I don't care if you wear perfume but if I can smell you from more than 3 feet away, it's just rude. I'll try not to pass gas near you, and in return, maybe you can turn the colonge down a notch. It's just common courtesy.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:56 PM

Exactly.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 06:01 PM

I agree too.

"If you think every rule is meant to be blindly followed without questioning it's total lack of perspective that's your choice. It isn't mine."

And that is what it's all about. Thanks for that line Guest. It's just a chicken shit rule, that I'm questioning. If people would just look around they'd see a lot more dangerous issues that should be questioned.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 06:05 PM

"Free the Scent."

Association of Stinking Skunks

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Cluin
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 06:18 PM

Does Winnie Pooh in the 100 Acre Wood?

Yeah, and it's all sticky and gross because all he eats is "hunny".

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 06:21 PM

Another stirling reason to ban bees cluin. Good thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 06:37 PM

"you think every rule is meant to be blindly followed without questioning it's total lack of perspective that's your choice"

Now you are putting words in my mouth. EVERY rule should be questioned. This "rule" has been fought for and I think it has merit.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 06:40 PM

Nice try Ron, but you missed the 'if' out of my quote.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 06:57 PM

"Rules are for the Guidance of The Wise and Blind Obedience by Fools."

Robin
Author of The Fooles Troupe.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Bert
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:08 PM

Flowers are just the same problem. One time I pruned my pear tree when it was in full bloom 'cos there was just to much on the tree.

Well not wanting to waste the flowers I took them into the office to share.

Sure enough one guy had allergies so I took them into a room that wasn't used and put up a sign saying help yourself.

Nothing wrong with being reasonable.

As for those of you who have problems with bees, there's a trick that might help prevent them from stinging you. Just talk nicely to them, actually you can hand feed them, but I wouldn't recommend that if you're allergies are severe. But if they are there just be calm and talk gently and they are much less likely to sting.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:17 PM

My grandfather claimed that bees would sting horses because of their scent.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Cluin
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:26 PM

A good friend of mine claimed that the scent of human breath would incite bees and hornets to sting. Maybe it was just HIS breath.

He also told me spitting would scare away skunks.

He had a lot of stupid hints and tips, come to think of it...

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:27 PM

no difference at all. The addition of "if" still says the same. Your arguements have not swayed anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Bert
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:32 PM

It's the adrenalin that incites them to sting. If you stay calm then they won't usually sting you. Thats where the talking nicely comes in. It helps YOU to stay calm and then they don't get excited by the adrenalin.

I have hand fed them with a drop of saliva on my finger so I don't think the smell of human breath would normally incite them. Of course beer or alcohol on your breath would interest them 'cos they like a tipple now and then.

I have never been stung while talking nicely and hand feeding them.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:43 PM

That would explain the horses - the fear is 'smelt' by the bees.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:48 PM

It's a tiny word Ron, but one that you felt the need to remove from the quote. I wonder why? Could it be that by leaving it in you couldn't qualify your statement?

Number 6 didn't find the need to remove it. Good cursor work though.
However no cigar. Stop clutching Ron, the straw is so far downstream it's out of sight.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Cluin
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:49 PM

I've never been stung by a bee, actually.

And only once by a yellowjacket. I was playing an outdoor gig and it was hovering in front of my face and I stupidly reached out and grabbed it and threw it away from me. Thet's when it zapped me in the palm, between the 2nd & 3rd finger of my left hand. Hurt a bit for while, but it actually loosened up my playing some (I was on mandolin at the time and cramping up a bit).

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: bobad
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:50 PM

"It's the adrenalin that incites them to sting. "

Do you have a source for this ?

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 08:19 PM

"It's a tiny word Ron, but one that you felt the need to remove from the quote. I wonder why? Could it be that by leaving it in you couldn't qualify your statement?"

I know you won't believe me, but the honest truth is that I failed to see that I missed the word when I copied and paste.   The other part is, even if you leave the word in, it still doesn't change the fact that you were putting words in my mouth. Your use of the word "if" in that sentence comes across as an assumption, not a supposition. YOU are the one who appears to have run out of steam because you have not been able to put together a logical argument, and now you jump on a simple typo as a way of justifying your position.

It still remains that the problem of "scent free" is an important issue that deserves attention. You try to downplay it and bring up an issue of gas consumption - an important problem of course, but not one that should cancel out other fights.   Finding a cure for AIDS is important, does that mean we should stop trying to fight cancer and devote our energy there? I should hope not.

Please, read a few of the links that have been posted elsewhere. I know this seems like a joke to many people, but there is some serious research and serious health issues at risk.   Let's not get tied up in word games and silly arguements.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 09:33 PM

its late, i'm tired, and reading this thread is making me angry..

my sister has suffered near fatal asthma attacks triggered
by smokers and/or strong perfume wearers.

she is now virtually a housebound prisoner,
no longer able to risk visiting most public places.
She now has precious little social life
and fewer and fewer remaining friends
prepared to visit her at home
as her health has deteriorated.
The internet is her only lifeline to the wider outside world..
..but what quality of life is that..

She has no choice but to deal with the life-sentence
of 'living in a bubble'
imposed by the ignorance, selfishness, and stupidity of mass humanity.

My health is not so bad as yet..

but in the last few years i find myself being increasingly adversly affected
by allergic reaction to strong commercial fragrances..

it can be an instant reaction of nausea and unsettled equilibrium..
my skin can quickly break out in ecezema..
luckily i've never experienced asthma.. so far..

the air in most public places is a toxic potentially harmful fug.

Even in my local sports & leisure centre / gym
which has a corporate incentive in promoting
good health and well being..

..the changing rooms are poorly ventilated,
yet the daily build-up of 'toxins'
from the uncontrolled use of mutivarious aerosol spray deodorants
and vanity perfumed products
of dozens of guys using the facilities..
compounded with the continuous industrial chemical air freshner jets
overhead in the urinals..

it might just as well be a military chemical warfare training chamber
as far as i'm concerned..

it directly affects my health,
so i cant use the changing rooms..
which means as a consequence
its difficult for me to use the swimming pool and steam/spa facilities
which i pay for substantially every week as part of my membership fee..


so I've no patience with clever-arsed reactionary mockery..
this is a real health threat..

think how you might respond to a sudden unprovoked punch to the nose, throat, or diaphagm..

or being sprayed in the face with mace..

its not a joke..

not when common everyday fragrance enhanced products
can cause a similar shock to the system
to individuals like my sister and myself..

..and i'm sure that although sufferers like us are at present discounted
as merely only a small minority of 'weaklings' & 'compainers',
the numbers are surely growing rapidly generation by generation
as the social environment becomes increasingly and permanently polluted
with the noxious products of fuckwitted 'consumer choice'.

Great.. smoking will be banned in pubs and venues..

thats positive progress.. i can start going out to gigs more often again..

but there will still be the potential real threat
that i will be assaulted by the 'fragrant' chemical agents
of cretin culture lifestyle-product over-consumers..

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 09:46 PM

..oh and i hesitated to mention as this is not specifically
a 'smoking debate ' thread..

smoke in pubs fucks up my sinus's and ears..

its real discomfort and pressure,
and can occasionally cause me spontaneous nose bleeds in public..

which is embarrasing cuz in pub gigs where i live
i'm sure people i dont know tend to jump to the conclusion i'm a coke/speed abuser..
and judge me accordingly and wrongl..


.. still thankfully that will be one less problem !

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: jacqui.c
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:15 PM

I worked in an office with a woman who drenched herself in perfume every day. For the period of time that I had to work with her I would go home with a headache every day. She was not the type of person who would take kindly to a request to tone down the perfume and, as she was my superior and I needed the job I had no alternative than to suffer it. Put me off using the stuff for a long time and, when I did use some, I found that I ended up with headaches again.

Now I hate walking through the ground floor of department stores, which is always where the perfume counters are. To me it's almost as bad as cigarette smoke.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Raptor
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:33 PM

If you were alergic to coal would you work in a mine?

If you were alergic to seafood would you work at Red Lobster?

If you were alergic to the sun would you become a lifegard?

Banning things is wrong. I felt sorry for the punk untill he said that he still goes to pubs with all the "Fuckwitted consumer choices"

Compaering passing a woman with a little too much channel to a "punch in the throat"

The sent that should be banned is the pungent oder of bullshit.

I do realize that some people have alergies but they are responsible for thier own health. Ashmatics that live in smog infested cities and complain about perfume are Morons that darwin tried to tell us about!

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:39 PM

some peoples heads are twisted so far up their arses..

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:44 PM

Raptor, read up on the problem. It is not just being annoyed by the smell. I would not work in a coal mine if I were allergic to coal, I probably would not work at Red Lobster if I were allergic to seafood (although you do not have to eat it to work there), and I would not be a lifeguard if I were allergic to the sun.

Now, what does any of that have to do with a ban on chemical fragrances? This is an involuntary "exposure" where as the other cases you mentioned would be purposely putting yourself in danger.

If you read this carefully, it is not a case of a woman wearing too much Chanel.

People can make jokes about it all they want, but this is a serious and unhealthy issue. READ!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:49 PM

ultimately democratic free societies need to resort to law and bans
to protect its population
from the ignorance and harmful behaviour of inconsiderate
willfully antagonistic shites
who cant be trusted to be let loose unregulated in public ..

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:55 PM

Punkrockfolker, I think the real problem is that people cannot place themselves in someone elses shoes.   Unless they can see and feel a problem for themselves, the problem just doesn't exist. To many on this thread, the problem is simply a joke - someone whining because they do not like the smell. Those people who really knows someone that suffers understand what it is about. Consideration appears to be something that is lacking. Witness this thread and you will see a number of people with pre-developed notions that won't listen to reason and refuse to read the research themselves.   

There will always be people who will insist that the sky is green.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 11:38 PM

Well, that's one thing I agree with you Ronny ... the sky certainly is not green. I took a photo of it a while back that proves you are right.

the sky is not green !

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Cluin
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 11:44 PM

Scent-free environment?

Yeah, Spaw hasn't been around in a while, has he?

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Peace
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 11:46 PM

That is a great shot, sIx.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 11:55 PM

Yeah, thanks Peace ... taken with a telephoto from my back upper deck at the refinery across from Courtney Bay. Scarry eh.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Gurney
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 12:13 AM

I'm married to a woman who's allergic to perfume, the smell of petrol/gasoline and cigarette smoke.
I like the smell of all of them, particularly perfume, -on women, I hasten to add. Tough, eh?
Perhaps a lot of money should be spent on research into the cause of the allergies, not banning the triggers.

Here in Godzone there is a malady known as Taranaki 'flu, which seems to be a symptom of over-exposure to agricultural sprays. That might be a starting point.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 03:51 AM

"Than stand in the middle of a freeway shooting the tyres of every over indulgent pleb in a SUV going to pick up the cat from the vet..." That sounds like fun... can I play?

I used to work near a busy roundabout/flyover and was getting what amounted to an asthma attack a week. My bosses complained at the amount of time I was having off sick, but refused to move me when I asked for a transfer. When eventually they did move me (after a year of requests) to a library near a park and in a quieter road, my attacks vanished almost instantly. It has since turned out that I'm not actually asthmatic, but had an irregular heartbeat that was going too fast to spread oxygen around properly. However... I know it was the exhaust fumes from this extremely busy road junction that caused an allergic reaction. The more I coughed, the faster the heart beat, the faster the heart beat, the less oxygen to the lungs.... vicious circle.

The exact same thing happens when I walk through the doors of certain stores where the perfume counter is situated immediately inside. Even though my heart has been fixed, I still get the reaction. Perfume sellers have been banned from spraying into the air immediately in front of people, for that very reason. Some store was sued because a customer was sprayed without consent and had an asthma attack as a result. Now they ask if they can spray you. If only they would fit extractor fans....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 05:21 AM

1. If someone at work is sneezing, they might have a cold and be spreading germs, OR they might be reacting to someone else's perfume. (Either way, avoid them, but sending them home may not solve the problem.)

2. Laundry dries perfectly well without 'dryer sheets', they are totally unnecessary.

3. I bought a deodorant labelled as 'unperfumed'. When I got home and looked at it with my glasses on I found that the ingredients included 'parfum'. Beware!

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST,Mingulay at work
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 08:36 AM

Small amounts of perfume are perfectly acceptable especially when detected whilst at close quarters with the wearer. Indeed, they serve to heighten and arouse certain other senses.

Scent, on the other hand, is something sold in Woolworths and best used for toning down the emanations from sewage works, and even then in very small amounts.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 09:41 AM

"Small amounts of perfume are perfectly acceptable especially when detected whilst at close quarters with the wearer."

Sorry, but that isn't true. The overwhelming majority of perfumes contain synthetic chemicals, many that are documented as hazardous by the EPA and other organizations. There are links to cancer, asthma, birth defects and disorders of the central nervous system.

Please, do a little research on this. It is easy to make statements like "there is no problem with wearing perfume" because we are all products of marketing that makes this appear to be innocent.

Years ago people would not think twice about throwing litter out of their cars. Today we have learned and most people would not do something so stupid. The idea of problems with scents is so foreign to people that they do not wish to take the time to really listen to what the problems can be.

No, you probably won't drop dead by splashing some Old Spice after shaving, but you do not know what that stuff can be doing to you or others around you.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST,Wordless Woman
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 09:42 AM

Dear oh dear. This thread is getting a bit cranky. HOWEVER, I'm going to add my two cents and ask advice. Like Kaleea, I am allergic to fragrance and end up with a sinus infection. I DO avoid highly scented places: department stores, gift shops with scented candles, etc. I deal with my allergy as best I can.

Back in the day there used to be something called a zone of fragrance. In order to smell a woman's perfume one would have to be in very close proximity.

The problem is a new employee – new to my department but with the company for a few years. I have to give her an orientation this afternoon. I met her briefly the other day. One certainly does not have to be in close proximity to be overwhelmed by her perfume; it precedes her by several yards. It's a scent more appropriate to evening wear rather than the audit department.

How do I gracefully tell her to scale it back?

And the popcorn smell? I sit across from the kitchenette and just turn my desktop fan so it blows the air back in the kitchenette.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 09:55 AM

Wordless Woman - if you are this womans supervisor, you have to flat out tell her. It is not easy, but it is important to do it as soon as possible. I once had to tell an employee that his body order was offending people who worked in a very cramped control room with him. I would suggest finding as private a place as possible, and then speak openly and honestly. You can explain that people, like yourself, have a sensitivty to the chemicals in perfume and while there isn't a ban on wearing perfume in your office (I assume), it would be greatly appreciated if she cuts back on the perfume. If you are not her supervisor, I would suggest having a private conversation with her actual supervisor or HR person about this.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Raptor
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 10:25 AM

Ron I know this is no joke.
I am only saying if you can't handle the atmosphere in the bar you shouldn't play in that bar, then bitch that it was bad.

One of our fellow catters was whining about not liking the places he CHOSE to frequent, Than accused others of having thier heads up thier asses.

He also stated " ultimately democratic free societies need to resort to law and bans
to protect its population
from the ignorance and harmful behaviour of inconsiderate
willfully antagonistic shites
who cant be trusted to be let loose unregulated in public .. "

This is scarry. That people believe they need to inflict thier beliefs on others with laws because they think that people "Can't be trusted" To make wise choices for themselves!

I couldn't agree more that we need to stop the chemical poisioning of this planet and it's water supply with these unnessary additives. But we need to lesislate the discontinued use of these chemicals in the manufacturing stage. Not ban thier use by the consumers because some whining Punk is discomforted in the pubs he chooses to go to.

And the thought of the likes of said punk demanding Bans based on his "knowing better" than anyone else is downright insane!

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 10:36 AM

Raptor, it appears that you have a personal gripe with punkrockfolker for things he said. I agree with you that people should not feel that their opinion and/or knowledge makes them superior to all others. Still, it appears that you are discrediting some of the things he is saying out of spite rather than reason.

If you agree that we need to legislate the use of these chemicals, you would probably agree that we need to regulate how and where they are used - if you read the information on what they can do. Whether it is the pub, a school or a hospital - should people inflict others?

As for his point about laws, I tend to agree with the spirit he is saying. After all, why do we need any laws if we trust people?

Punkrockfolker may not "know better" than anyone else here, but I do think in this case he knows some of the facts. Having two friends who knowingly suffer from this problem, I have seen how it can effect people. Now that we know a bit more about the makeup of these "scents" (something the perfume industry was reluctant to divulge for decades), we can make a few more educated decisions on how we are to use them.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 10:42 AM

hey ron..

imagine all the worse things you think i'd be likely to say to you in response..

then continue to make up to your own satisfaction
any version of the truth you desire..

..that seems to be the easiest way for you to interact with folks you dont know

and realities you fail to comprhend..

then slump quietly back into your default head twisted firmly in arse position..

cheers...

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 10:45 AM

OOPS !!!

muy fullest apologies to Ron.

I meant to address that last post to Raptor.

but must have suddenly been hit by a waft of over chemically fragrenced bullishit
which momentarily knocked me confused and senseless...


sorry Ron

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: artbrooks
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 10:45 AM

An issue to be aware of is that, as most people age, their sense of smell (like most other senses) becomes less acute. An older woman will use more of her scent of choice because it takes more before she can smell it. An extract from this article says: By conservative estimates, 4 million Americans have sustained the complete or partial loss of the sense of smell, sometimes after a head injury, but more often as a result of aging or Alzheimer's disease. In fact, half of all people lose at least part of their sense of smell by age 65 and 75 percent do so by age 80, probably because of lower levels of key brain chemicals, repeated colds or cumulative exposure to toxins or medications. Other people, because of an injury or disease, will have their sense of smell become hyper-acute.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST,Wordless Woman
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 10:46 AM

Ron, I am not this woman's supervisor, rather, the office manager. Going to the manager or HR is useless. There's an extraordinary lack of spine here and HR has been "outsourced". They're available only by email and most queries are returned with a response that the request is "complicated" and will require further research. I've found, to my cost, that research can take years!

The new girl is bigger than me. Hope she doesn't beat me up.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 10:48 AM

and thanks also Ron for such well articulated voice of reason in this thread

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 11:05 AM

Btw Raptor..

its not superiority i'm feeling or aspiring to..

just plain old fashioned justifable anger and resentment..

fueling a hope for positive enlightened social progress

[re; health issues i have real world experience and knowledge of]


.. so whats your problem with that then ?


whats fueling your apparent hostility & bitterness ???

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 12:21 PM

It's one mean, cruel, stinking world .... only if you want it to be.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: ranger1
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 01:01 PM

Tossing in my worthless two-cent's worth here (and liable to get lambasted for it): large amounts of perfume or other strong chemicals being passed off as perfume cause me to have a severe allergic reaction. My eyes swell shut, my sinuses go haywire and in a few cases I have experienced difficulty breathing. Since this affects me, I tend to avoid places where I might come into contact with this sort of thing. However, sometimes I can't avoid it, like the workplace and on airplanes. If they can make peanut-free zones on airplanes, why can't they make a perfume-free zone?

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 01:56 PM

According to some of my women friends the really chic way to wear expensive perfume is to spray some into the air of one's boudoir and then to walk through the cloud. I once innocently asked whether one should do this clothed or unclothed and was struck rather hard (can't think why!).
A woman I once worked with seemed to have a different idea. Her perfume was so strong that I imagined that she got dressed every morning and then got a flunky to lower her into a vat of her favourite perfume. She was then hung up to dry, by evaporation, for a while, and then set off to pollute the office ...

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Raptor
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 02:23 PM

I'm feeling resentment myself.

Not because the cruel world has given me some sort of alergy and I think it unfair. Not because I've got a bug up my ass that causes me to act like its the rest of the populations responsibility to make sure that I am safe and content.

I resent the fact that someone deems it nessary to decide whats good for me because he thinks that I, like everyone else here, and elsewhere, are "fuckwitted 'consumers" And "inconsiderate
willfully antagonistic shites
who cant be trusted to be let loose unregulated in public .. "


"imagine all the worse things you think i'd be likely to say to you in response..

then continue to make up to your own satisfaction
any version of the truth you desire..

..that seems to be the easiest way for you to interact with folks you dont know

and realities you fail to comprhend.."
I'm not making any version of the truth I'm quoting you!


It sucks you are not healthy,BUT its not my fault.
Don't act like you know whats best for anyone when you can't even stay out of the pubs that agrivate your condition.

Ron Take your own advice, read his posts again yourself and tell me that you don't consider his attitude a little offputting. Do you not have a gripe with someone who calls you a "Fuckwitt"?

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 02:47 PM

Raptor ... don't lose it over Ronny and his new punkrocker friend. They are just pokin to get ya goin ... not worth the argument. Not worth wasting energy over.

All and all .. I agree with ya Raptor.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 03:52 PM

"Take your own advice, read his posts again yourself and tell me that you don't consider his attitude a little offputting. Do you not have a gripe with someone who calls you a "Fuckwitt"?

No, I do not think he called me "fuckwitt" and from what I am reading he is speaking in generic terms, not pointing to anyone in particular. I may be wrong, I'm not speaking for anyone.   Even if he did, I think I can separate the personal feelings from the discussion at hand.

And sIx, please do not try to instigate anything. I've tried to keep this civil and I am not "pokin" Raptor or anyone else to get anyone going. I have stated some FACTS and OPINIONS. How YOU and ANYONE else reacts to that is your matter of choice.

It does seem that the people who are in what seems to be the minority and have not given any solid facts or strong arguements seem to take things personal.   Lets try to keep the discussion to the topic, not to each others personality.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: bobad
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 04:05 PM

Some opposing views

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 04:05 PM

In probably what is a futile bid to get this discussion back on topic, I understand that "scent-free environment" has caught on more in Canada then it has in the United States.

Do any Canadian Mudcatters have experience with this and how it has gone over in your workplace? It seems to me that the success or failure of the program would depend on how the company educates and presents it to their employees and involves them in the process?

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 04:22 PM

Thanks Bobad. Unfortunately they really do not give much substantial evidence on the page you gave us and the original link to www.scentedproducts.on.ca did not work when I tried it.

The page you gave us is part of a website for the Canadian Cosmetic, Toiletry and Fragrance Association and as they say on their website they are "The Canadian Cosmetic, Toiletry and Fragrance Association (CCTFA) is the only national association that represents the interests of brandowners, distributors, custom manufacturers, retail, and associate member companies that provide products and services for the personal care industry in Canada."

Their site also says that "The CCTFA acts as the principal voice of the personal care products industry by maintaining a constant dialogue with government regulators to ensure the development and effective representation of industry positions on all regulatory matters. Working with members, one of the Association's primary goals is to establish and maintain an optimum business environment that promotes Canadian industry global competitiveness through freedom from unnecessary regulation. Membership in the CCTFA is the best way to positively influence elected officials, regulators and deal with media and special interest groups."

I am sure there is evidence from an unconnected source that says the findings of the EPA and other organizations are wrong, and honestly I would like to see that information.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 05:26 PM

Thank you Bobad!

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Raptor
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 05:30 PM

Good work Bobad.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 06:46 PM

Nice one Bobad. You do realise of course that you are being ridiculous and futile ;)

Good to see carpeting getting a namecheck number 6!

Some folk just thrive on banning things.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST,slt
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 09:36 PM

For those of you who don't understand the problem, scents attack the lungs and I suffered a stroke two years ago because of exposure to these allergens when I couldn't breathe. I agree a light perfume should not be a problem. However, in my office, two girls recently reacted to the knowledge of my allergies by intentionally spraying perfume in my work cubicle several times per day. To me this is life threatening, I must leave the area immediately and it has caused me no end of stress. My husband is so upset that I have been placed in this situation in a professional work environment after years of working in this office that he has vowed that if I have another stroke he will lay criminal charges against the girls for aggravated assault. These perfumes are no different than any other weapon when used in this manner, in much the same way aids can be intentionally used to endanger another person's life.