BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote

Subject: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Pied Piper
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 11:21 AM

I say it's worth a try as long as they renounce terrorism.

PP

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 11:33 AM

The only reason that this government want 16 YOs to have the vote, is because they know that they will benefit more than any other party.
I quote the old truism.....

"If a man is not a socialist by the time he's 20, he has no heart. If he's still a socialist when he's 40, he has no mind."

Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 12:33 PM

16 year olds are still very impressionable and could be heavily influenced by outside sources. I think 18 is a reasonable age to start voting. They will have more analytical experience and social awarenes by age 18. With more education and exposure to international affairs in the news and high school debates, a hightened ability to make a more independant judgement of issues.

Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Cluin
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 12:38 PM

Teenagers are insane. Their minds cannot physically comprehend shades of grey, philosophically speaking because they haven't finished developing yet.

So yes, give them the vote. Every other idiot out there has it.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 01:22 PM

I think that any kid old enough to recruit should be old enough to vote...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 01:25 PM

Then it's the recruiting that's wrong not the age of emancipation Bobert.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: kendall
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 01:34 PM

Hell no! The friggin' adults are bad enough!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: cool hand Tom
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 02:04 PM

I Didnt really know my politics till at least 28.Id say 18 is too young.
       Just my farthings worth.

                                  Regards Tom.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 02:26 PM

I say we don't let anyone OLDER than 16 vote....

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 02:29 PM

There are lots of people way over 16 with an intelligence way under, but that's not a valid reason to lower the age. It would be more important to encourage those who do not use their franchise to do so, and sensibly.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Amos
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 06:14 PM

God, no.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 06:24 PM

"as long as they renounce terrorism"


Ha! EVERYONE renounces terrorism. Just ask 'em. (When they kill people and blow things up, it's not terrorism...just remember that...it's something noble that has been forced upon them BY the real terrorists. It's legitimate self-defence. No one supports what they honestly believe is terrorism.)

I think Clinton's got an interesting idea there, but didn't Mao already try it out in the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution? Or was it in the Great Leap Backward?

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Cluin
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 06:51 PM

"Nothing can change the shape of things to come."

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 08:56 PM

The vote - where it was a 'democratic process' was give to those aged 21. The push for 18 year olds to vote started due to the military lust of Governments. If 18 year olds were suitable to draft and be killed for their country, ran the argument, they were old (mature, etc) enough to vote.

No Government was prepared to stop compulsorily drafting 18 year olds, so now they have the vote, and pretty much most of the other 'privileges of adulthood', such as drinking legally. The problem is that if they only drafted 21 year olds and over, it meant disrupting university study, careers, etc. The electoral fallout would have been devastating among the more mature voters - many also may have been married, and so that was 2 votes lost...

As for those younger, we would charge headlong even faster into the highly destructive political path the world took in the 1930's. And with the USA now producing 'micro nukes' deliberately intended to be used as 'bunker busters', etc, the madness of 'The Cold War' will seem mild.

"Duck and Cover", indeed!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 08:58 PM

Cluin,
"Nothing can change the shape of things to come."

That does seem right, but remember that things like Apartheid would still exist if your expressed philosophy above was totally believed by everybody.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 09:31 PM

The shape of things to come, in that case, was the end of Apartheid. It was inevitable, as was the end of slavery. That doesn't mean that no one needed to fight for them, however. The fighting is part of the ongoing process of change.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 09:45 PM

It was only inevitable if people DID fight for it. Slavery still exists in many parts of the world under many names.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Cluin
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 09:55 PM

"...the shape of things to come" is a reference from the 1960's move Wild in the Streets which dealt with the youth vote issue in a strange way.

A 22 year old rock star, who sings the quoted lyric, becomes a senator then lobbies congress to reduce the voting age to 14. The upshot is, everybody over 30 gets shipped off to LaLaLand.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Paul Burke
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 04:04 AM

Reduce the voting age to 11. Increase the age of consent to 65. End of problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 05:04 AM

No. What a bloody silly idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 12:35 PM

I'm not happy with 18 year old voting when they can't even hold a conversation! Now 12 year old are a different matter but take away the vote between 13 and 21.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 12:56 PM

"everybody over 30 gets shipped off to LaLaLand."

REENEEEW! REEENEEEEWWW!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Cluin
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 01:17 PM

It wasn't that bad (like Logan's Run). They just made them retire and have to drop acid.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 01:22 PM

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 05:37 PM

They are affected by governments, so why not vice versa?

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 05:51 PM

Foolestroupe, it was inevitable that people WOULD fight against slavery! ;-) I mean, hell, Spartacus did, didn't he? People have been fighting against slavery ever since it first began, and they will always fight against it...

People will always fight against any and all forms of institutionalized inequality, because the soul detests enforced inequality above all else.

They did experiments with monkeys, giving better rewards to some than to others for performing the same tasks. The ones who got the poorer rewards got mad, went on strike, and wouldn't do anything at all after awhile. They also got in fights with the better rewarded monkeys.

Same principle. The monkeys did not like enforced inequality. They recognized that it was "not fair".

It is inevitable that such unfair systems will meet resistance, and the resistance will eventually change or end the system.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 05:58 PM

People also resent natural inequality not just the imposed variety, the rich resent the poor and the poor resent the rich, and in the UK the Labour Party has been exploiting this by indulging in the politics of envy, otherwise known as Socialism, for many years.
That in itself is a good enough reason for 16 YOs not to be given the vote.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 06:15 PM

Yes, people do resent natural inequality. No doubt about it. It's unfortunate, but they do.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Paul Burke
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 03:48 AM

"The politics of envy"- you've been reading the Torygraph too much. I suppose the politics of envy are worse than the politics of gluttony, lust, anger, pride, avarice and sloth, or any of the other Seven Deadly Firemen.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 04:33 AM

Should one read the Labour supporting,[for their own ends], red top rags with the tits on page 3 in order to get their news? If they want news of Beyonce and the characters in the soaps yes.
If the only papers that carry any intelligent articles are mainly right leaning politically, then it is up to the intelligent reader to detect any political bias and dismiss it.
Bias is in the mind of the beholder in most cases.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Paul Burke
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 04:37 AM

So you do read the Torygraph then. There are other papers.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 04:59 AM

Non.
Neither should politicians be allowed to stand for election. If they want to be elected, that by itself should disqualify them. Public office should be a duty, not a reward.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 05:07 AM

I do read the Daily Telegraph on a Saturday which is the only day I buy a newspaper. It has about 10 sections half of which I don't read, the rest keeps me amused for at least 3 days. We do the crosswords and we laugh at the letters to the editor, we spread the paper on the floor at night for our old incontinent dog to pee on, which I suspect you may agree with Paul☺
I vote Scottish nationalist and I have no idea how my partner votes as it is none of my business. So characterising a paper as being read by people who vote a certain way is at best an iffy pastime.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Paul Burke
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 06:11 AM

No, I was characterising YOU as reading the paper, not the paper as being read by you...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 06:20 AM

Not a Tory either,but many people think that the Torygraph gives the best coverage of scientific issues.
BTW John, if you like crosswords try "The War Cry" sometime.
One Across -"Son of God"(5) Toughie!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 06:59 AM

No Way at 16. They know nothing yet. I think we give people the vote far too easily. it should be something studied for like the driving test and an exam should be taken to prove you have the necessary knowledge to make an informed decision as to how you wish to vote. Having the vote should become a badge of citizenship that has to be earned. You want a say in how things run? Then show an interest and acquire the knowledge.
The fact that some dumb, game playing, fashion obsessed, glotal stopped,Sun reading, alcoholic,Soap obsessed, teenager can cancel out my vote by just turning up at the booth makes me mad!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 07:17 AM

Guest there are two Ts in glo'al !
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: tarheel
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 07:30 AM

The one BIG reason i cherish my Freedom in the good ole USA, is the I VOTE and I PAY TAXES....
so far,the 16 year olds in this country do neither!!!!
if they are old enought to VOTE,then they should be old enough to PAY their fair share of TAXES,too!!!
tar...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: kendall
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 08:07 AM

In ancient times, people didn't live much past 40, so by the time a boy was 18 he was considered to be an adult, having reached the "Age of majority". However, when it came to inheritance, all that legal gobbldegoook took about three years to get ironed out, so by then he is 21. It all means very little these days.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Paul Burke
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 08:14 AM

In ancient times, kendall, no one had the vote. And most people had no property either.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 08:34 AM

I know Giok..couldn't resist it!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: GUEST,Van
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 09:41 AM

Tarheel - surely if a 16 year old earns enough they pay taxes - they do in the UK. The way I see it from recent elections the turnout is steadily diminishing and and our glorious leaders have started to thrash around for anyone who can hold a pencil and make a mark to give their positions some sort of credibility. (plus if they move to computer voting only those aged 16 and under will be able to fathom out how to it.)

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: kendall
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 12:54 PM

Paul, you miss my point. It wasn't about voting.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 12:58 PM

Don't worry Kendall my post about who reads what newspaper wasn't aimed at anybody either.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Cluin
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 01:46 PM

..."The fact that some dumb, game playing, fashion obsessed, glotal stopped,Sun reading, alcoholic,Soap obsessed, teenager can cancel out my vote by just turning up at the booth makes me mad!"


Chill out then because they won't even show up.
The younger voters are the most under-represented in elections. Their own fault. Apathy about voting causes many to just not bother.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 08:33 PM

"Chill out then because they won't even show up."

In Australia, voting has been compulsory since the 1920's. Little Johnny is trying to make voting non-compulsory now too - just like his bum buddy George...


Hmmmmm, is that 'bum buddy' or 'bum' buddy...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 06:28 AM

IMO No they should not.

Foolestroupe, just a slight correction to your post of 01 Mar 06 - 08:56 PM, in which you state

"...with the USA now producing 'micro nukes' deliberately intended to be used as 'bunker busters', etc, the madness of 'The Cold War' will seem mild."

What is your source for that?

As far as I am aware the project to develop a nuclear version of the conventional 'bunker buster' was cancelled ages ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: kendall
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 08:22 AM

I've always thought that mandatory voting was a good idea, but when I read complaints from OZ, I have to wonder.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: freda underhill
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 09:36 AM

It's a very good idea and most people in oz vote, and get fined if they dont. We don't have large portions of the population who dont vote. even the poorest people have a right to vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 10:09 AM

Compulsory voting is the way to go, but with one proviso, there should be a last box to tick on every ballot paper that says "None of the above"
If the result is that more ticks are put in that box than in any other, then the contest should be re-run with different candidates. Now that would give people a place to express their distaste for a particular politician or party, and save them having to vote for an opposition party as the only protest vote available to them.
It would work for me!
Giok