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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,ruairiobroin Date: 16 Jun 10 - 09:07 AM I heard that "pow " was actually scots pronunciation of peau, french for skin. Never saw reason to doubt it |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: C Stuart Cook Date: 16 Jun 10 - 09:28 AM Guest John Spence, Yep I know it's a Scots song but the last time I looked Scotland was firmly anchored to the top of Northern England. Without wishing to ignite a whole Scots/English debate there were most likely better lines of communication between Dumfries & Galloway and N England, road and coastal craft, than there were to Glasgow and Edinburgh. When Rabbie stood on the coast looking south he was looking at the lumpy bits of England. Most of the dialect developed as Scots, Welsh and country people came together in the mill towns |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Captain farrell Date: 16 Jun 10 - 09:28 AM Where I come from you go for a POW and A SHAVE ie a HAIRCUT and a Shave. Thats in Saddleworth Yorkshire England |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 16 Jun 10 - 09:38 AM So if you went to a POW-WOW you'd get scalped? Damn.....Always wondered where the Injuns got that.............. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 16 Jun 10 - 09:40 AM The theory that the version with the gravy is the unexpurgated version is just that, a theory. My theory is that it is the corrupted version, probably cobbled together by a half-drunk guy who couldn't get laid. Since he couldn't experience love, he trashed it. Have you ever read the original account, embedded in the works of Jonathon [sp] Swift? It simply reeks of jealous hypocrisy. Face it, guys. Davy was a small man with curly hair, probably charming. He had the brains and integrity to be a minister. His wife-to-be, perhaps a petite woman herself, looked on him and liked what she saw. They got married, and the rest came naturally. Add to this the adventure motif - that she rescued him from a passel of mounted thugs who were pursuing him across country, and you have a sure-fire winner of a song. (They weren't planning to stop him and ask for some ID, you know.) |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 16 Jun 10 - 09:55 AM Well geeziz leeneia, that's all well and good but you fail to mention his service in the Crimean War and without that all of your good work is thrown into a cocked hat. And what IS a cocked hat anyway? Is it a hat preloaded with some guy's cock and if so why???? And why would Davy's wife want one? Seems to me she'd just as soon have Davy......... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 16 Jun 10 - 01:34 PM You're right, Spaw. Davy had been a chaplain during the Crimean war. That's where he had learned to e and e [escape and evade] pursuers. Can't help you on the cocked hat thing, but somehow I doubt your hypothesis. "Seems to me she'd just as soon have Davy........." That, of course, is the basic message of the entire song. And's it's been getting under the skin of tall guys ever since. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 16 Jun 10 - 02:03 PM So Napolean was involved in this too? |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: catspaw49 Date: 16 Jun 10 - 02:20 PM Napoleon? Well, I don't see why not! I mean there is always a place for a great dessert and Napoleon is one fine dessert and certainly one of my favorites! And here's a nice recipe as well.................... Traditional Napoleon Dessert Recipe: One classic French dessert recipe that never fails to impress! The French name for a Napoleon dessert is Mille Feuille, meaning "a thousand sheets" acurately describing this layered crispy puff pastry lined with a contrasting butter cream filling… absolutely delicious and oh so satisfying! You can prepare this dessert individually or as one large rectangular pastry. Preparation Time: about 30 minutes Cooking Time: about 20 minutes Refrigeration Time: at least 30 minutes Ingredients: 1 lb. Pre-made Puff Pastry (refrigerated or frozen - both are good!) 4 cups Whole Milk 2/3 cup Granulated Sugar 1/3 cup Flour 7 oz. Butter (room temperature) 2 tbsp. Cornstarch 2 Vanilla Beans 10 Egg Yolks Additional Flour to roll out pastry crust Additional Butter for baking sheet (or use parchment paper as a lining) Powdered Sugar to decorate How to Make It: Preheat oven to 400°F 1. On a lightly floured surface, roll out pastry into a large rectangle that you will be able to cut into three even parts (once cooked, not now!). Transfer rolled out pastry onto a baking sheet (lightly buttered or else lined with parchment paper). Prick top of pastry with a fork. Cover pastry with a layer of parchment paper and place another baking sheet, of the same size, on top, to keep pastry flat. If you don't have another baking sheet, just pour rice or any dried bean over the top. Put in the refrigerator for at least 30 minutes. 2. Remove pastry from the refrigerator and bake (with either the additional baking sheet on top, or with the rice/beans on top) for ten minutes. Take out of oven, remove baking sheet (or rice/beans) and remove top layer of parchment paper. Put back in oven for another 10 to 15 minutes or until lightly browned. Remove from oven and let cool off entirely before spreading on cream filling. 3. As your pastry is baking, you can prepare the cream filling. In a large saucepan combine the yolks and sugar and stir well. Then stir in flour, and cornstarch. 4. Cut vanilla beans in half lengthwise, and scrape out the seeds into the mixture and stir well. 5. Slowly stir in the milk until homogenous. Put the cream filling on the stove (light heat) and very gently bring to a simmer -- when you see small bubbles, take it off the heat and refrigerate. 6. In a large mixing bowl, beat the butter so that it rises. Gently mix in the rest of the cream filling. 7. Once the pastry has cooled, cut it carefully (serrated knife works best) into three even parts. Using a spoon and a spatula spread a thick layer of cream filling on two parts of pastry crust. Stack these two layers and cover with the third (top) pastry piece. Sprinkle top with powdered sugar. Refrigerate until serving. Voilà! Take a look at the ideas below if you are looking for more ways to make napoleon dessert recipes! There's no shortage! Variations for Napoleon Dessert Recipes Chocolate Napoleon: Follow the traditional recipe above, just add chocolate to the cream filling! Use 8 oz. of unsweetened baking chocolate. Cut into small pieces and stir in as you are warming up the cream filling. Just make sure to stir enough so that the texture of the cream is completely even. You can still use the vanilla if you want, or you can leave it out. Orange-Cream Napoleon: Follow the traditional recipe, just substitute the vanilla with 1 to 2 tbsp. of grated orange rind… depending on how strong you want it to be. Almond Napoleon: Follow the traditional recipe, just add 3 tbsp. of ground almond powder right before adding the flour and cornstarch. Use 1 vanilla bean instead of two. Sprinkle the top of each layer with a thin coat of grilled almond slices. Orange Blossom Napoleon: Follow the traditional recipe, just add 2 tbsp. of orange blossom water right before adding the flour and cornstarch. Use one vanilla bean instead of two. Berry Napoleon: Follow the traditional recipe, adding a thin layer of berries on top of the cream filling. You can use raspberries, blueberries, sliced strawberries, blackberries… or anything that suits your fancy! Decorate the top with powdered sugar and with berries. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 17 Jun 10 - 08:11 AM Napoleon was not around for Crimea. That was Tennyson. "Into the valley of death rode the five hundred..." Spaw, have you got a recipe for a tennyson? It would be British, not French, so instead of the butter and eggs, maybe treacle and oatmeal. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 17 Jun 10 - 09:16 AM I thought it was six hundred? Or was that a different war? Or a different brigade? Did they all have curly pows? |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Tannywheeler Date: 17 Jun 10 - 09:21 AM Oi! How off was I?? I related it to the curls on a baby's/toddlers head. The phrase quoted, that is. Didn't know about the song until I skimmed this thread. & of course, Napoleon was long gone(but not his mischief) by the Crimean fracas...Tw |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:34 PM Yes, we know that both Napoleon and Davy were long gone by then. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:37 PM But the six hundred were...nevermind. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Reiver 2 Date: 17 Jun 10 - 04:57 PM This thread has dropped a few too many stitches. [Or added too many, might be more accurate.] Natheless: Back to the original question and ignoring the rants about the Crimean war, Napoleon, etc., etc., etc., which belong elsewhere: First, the story: I think it's pretty evident that the INTENDED meaning was to tell the story [perhaps an actual event] of one 'Dainty' Davy [possibly an actual person. The story about the minister is a good one, and fits the context, to an extent at least. It seems probable that the appellation 'Dainty' was thrown in for alliterative purposes primarily, rather than as a physical or social description] who was fleeing pursuit by a company of armed men. For reasons best left to fertile imaginations, the lady of the house decides to help him. She does this by employing a rather surprising and unconventional ruse. She hides Davy in the bed beside her physically mature daughter! Whether the mother intended or expected the consequences is moot. If she did not, she was either 1] hopelessly naive or ignorant about what to expect, 2] even more naive or ignorant in believing that Davy being a religious man would preclude the not unexpected [by anyone other than the mother!] consequence, or 3] it was a conscious plan of the mother to get the daughter off her hands. [Whether because the daughter was becoming a royal pain in her nether regions, or because she feared that the girl was never going to find a husband, is not entirely clear]. Either way it would free her of responsibilities that she wished to transfer to another. Apparently, the daughter was cooperative in the event [the desire to end this particular mother-daughter relationship appears, perhaps, to have been mutual] and after the predictable consequences she and Davy married and lived happily [more or less] ever after. Definition of terms: The 'curly pow' refers to a curly head. The name Dainty Davy is used by the song's author [Burns, probably, in the best known version, is used in reference to both the man tucked into the girl's bed and, also in an attempt to lighten the mood of the song, to a rather obvious portion of his anatomy. The girl's 'thees' or 'thies' are thighs, the upper portion of her legs [or limbs]. The 'gravy" reference should be evident to anyone, and most especially to Mudcatters. There, most evidently, were cherry trees on the estate, but it seems likely that 'Cherry Trees' was also the name by which the property was known. [When the words Cherry Trees are capitalized in the lyrics, it is the latter.] Military units known as 'dragoons' date back to the 1500s. They began as mounted infantry, not true cavalry. Later they might be designated as either 'light' or 'heavy' dragoons and still later became true cavalry. Burns lived in the late 1700s, and Davy's pursuers were almost undoubtedly 'light dragoons' who's primary duties were related to reconnaisance and skirmishing. There you have the definitive [according to Reiver 2] explanation of what is happening in this fine song. That's the way I interpret it. If you don't agree, you're welcome to keep your own incorrect interpretation. Can we let it go now?? Forget that last statement, I know better. After all, this IS the Mudcat Forum! Reiver 2 |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 18 Jun 10 - 09:16 AM "If you don't agree, you're welcome to keep your own incorrect interpretation." Now that's a master statement of arrogance. Reiver, you don't even seem to be aware of the passage from Swift or to know that there are at least two entirely different Dainty Davy songs. And I don't think we needed anybody to tell us what thighs are. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Reiver 2 Date: 18 Jun 10 - 08:28 PM I guess that I thought that Mudcatters all had well developed senses of humor, and could recognize tongue-in-cheek posts. Reiver 2 |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Laura Date: 14 Aug 10 - 01:20 AM can't believe what this song is about! 'leas' instead of 'peas','tribunes' instead of 'dragoons' in the version I heard, albeit dragoons makes more sense. DID NOT know the 'gravy' verse, kind of marrs the song a bit for me, although it's funny still. good to know the story about Davey and Lady Cherrytrees, and truly enjoyed the bawdy version of the Crimean War |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 10 - 01:48 PM Ah've loved this wee song fur years noo, but eventually, ah jist hud tae find oot what "leeze me on yer curly pow" means. Imagine ma delight tae find this awfy informative (and humourous) wee discussion. So... eftir reading the whole, long and enjoyable threed, ah accept that it means "ah like yer curly heid". Hooever, ah think the deeper, mair poetic meaning is also relevant, and ah like the suggestion that it is actually "ease me on yer other bit" The modern translation of course being "it's ma turn oan top noo babe" Apologies of course tae Mr Spaw. Chrissie. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 12 Sep 10 - 01:56 PM Ah Chrissie...you just had to wake the drowsy Spaw. But now that you have I think a cream sauce fits better than gravy. Color, flavor, composition - just my opinion of course. Heads up all - my thyroid is wacky again and I am not responsible for anything I say or do. heh heh |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Dave Rado Date: 24 Jan 12 - 09:59 PM I've tried to plough through this fascinating thread but it's too much to take it all in and I'm still confused about the various versions. DT lists two versions of the lyrics, and only attributes the "Warlock Knowe" version to Burns, leaving the "curly pow" version unattributed. Someone in this thread said the Burns published a bawdy and a sanitised version of the song in different publications and at different times (the latter having nothing to do with the incident that allegedly inspired the original song); but if I understood the post correctly, the bawdy version that Burns published is far bawdier than the "curly pow" lyrics on the DT site, to the point that I doubt anyone would be able to get away with singing them in a folk club even today. BUT the version that I have always heard sung is the "curly pow" version that DT implies is traditional and annonymous. So is this right, that Burns wrote two versions, one ridiculously bawdy and one sanitised, neither of which are sung much today: and that a third, moderately bawdy version, which was not written by Burns, is the one that has survived in the sense of being widely sung today? And if so, does the traditional, anonymous, "curly pow" version precede Burns, or did it develop after his death? Or a bit of both? |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Allan Conn Date: 25 Jan 12 - 04:27 AM "the bawdy version that Burns published is far bawdier than the "curly pow" lyrics on the DT site" AFAIK Burns didn't publish the bawdy versions. The so called "Merry Muses of Caledonia" were discovered after his death. He seemingly both wrote and collected the bawdy material so it is hard to say which ones were actually his work. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Dave Rado Date: 25 Jan 12 - 09:30 AM That's interesting. So Burns published a song that he wrote the words of, to the old tune, which had nothing to do with the Rev. Williamson story, but it has been largely ignored by folk singers; and also possibly wrote but probably just collected an extremely bawdy version of the "curly pow" song; and Burns was clearly aware of the story about the Rev. Williamson. This extremely bawdy version then presumably morphed over time into the moderately bawdy version that is still widely sung today and which is in DT without attribution - have I got that right? And presumably the reason that the Burns version has largely been ignored despite being good poetry, while the moderately bawdy "curly pow" version has survived and is still widely sung today, is that the Rev Williamson story caught people's imagination, whereas the Burns version doesn't have much of a story to it, so most people prefer the traditional song to his lyrics for that reason. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Dave Rado Date: 25 Jan 12 - 09:42 AM One other thing - I have always heard the chorus sung as it is in the extremely bawdy version Burns probably collected, i.e. I've always heard "Bonnie Davie, Dainty Davie" and not "Dainty Davie, dainty Davie" as published on DT. "Bonnie Davie, Dainty Davie" also scans much better, IMO. It's also a bit strange to me that DT lists the Burns version first, and the traditional version as "Dainty Davie (2)", given that the traditional version is the one that is mostly sung today. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: SINSULL Date: 25 Jan 12 - 10:03 AM Spaw? Are you around? |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 25 Jan 12 - 11:42 AM I know a man in Texas whom you could call a modern Dainty Davy. He's small in size, sings beautifully, often has a twinkle in his eye, and has curly red-blonde hair. He has never lacked for feminine companionship. Have you ever seen the statistics that show that official leaders of men (CEO's, etc)tend to be tall and have executive (smooth, thick) hair? The saga of Dainty Davy is the saga of tall men being jealous because Dainty Davy appeals to the women and gets the girl. The more time passes, the more scurrilous the versions become. But the fact is, Dainty Davy won the girl and enjoyed a long and happy marriage, while Captain What's-His-Name found himself going to bachelor dinners, where he could only tell and retell the story, making it dirtier every time. He never did figure out that looking like a soldier and having lines of cruelty and anger incised in his face were the things that were keeping the women away from him. As for Davy getting in bed with the girl, that's all dirty old men talking. If you were running across country from thugs who might break your legs or fracture your skull, would you risk angering the women who gave you shelter? Given the fear and panic in your soul, could you possibly get it up? Of course not. Use your heads, guys. It's a charming song, so let it stay charming. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,Guest, admirer Date: 22 Mar 16 - 01:30 PM Wonderful thread, but one important piece of information missing: The connection to old Mddle-European lore by way of sound-relationship. Dainty Davey <--> Dairy Daisy, the famous daughter of a really big milk-producer from Worms, a city on the Rhine. Her cows "gaed oot" their "gravy", it came with a "splash", was "pat i' ma hand" and, obviously on her curly head. She was called "The cream - hilled Daisy". Later generations forgot the girl´s real name, called her Creamhill and told stories about huns, gold and a sinister knight called Hagen. Very much later, a Scottish gentleman came inquiring about the true story, found out some details, wrote a song and went away again. The German composer Wagner then took all the rubbish with gold and all and made a very loud and very long opera out of it. Thanks for the entertainment! Andreas (Not the one who started it) |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: GUEST,jim bainbridge Date: 12 Aug 18 - 08:36 AM Re the Finbar & Eddie Furey recording of this song on an LP in the 60s- Christy Moore told me that if you listen to it, you'll hear the moment when Eddie's nose & the studio mike came into contact... |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Gutcher Date: 12 Aug 18 - 01:13 PM Department of useless knowledge:--"Cherrytrees" was near the village of Douglas in South Lanarkshire. Anent Douglas-- look up Lugless Wull, a weaver in that village who had his ears cut off by the soldiers of the state for allegedly having given support to the persecuted Covenanters. |
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Subject: RE: Dainty Davey: What's a curly pow? From: Gutcher Date: 12 Aug 18 - 01:22 PM The lintel above the door of Wull"s cottage had a pair of shears carved thereon, alas now gone. His lugs having been cut off by his own shears. |
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