US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?

Subject: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Sorcha
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 04:41 PM

Why not, I say? But Our Fearless Leader says English only.....what do you think?

And, what about YOUR Nat'l anthem? YOUR language only, or may it be sung in others?

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: artbrooks
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 04:53 PM

Well, I think that our fearless leader is an ass under general circumstances, anyway. New Mexico is legally a bilingual state, according to the state constitution, so why should it be any more valid in one language that the other?

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Sorcha
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 04:54 PM

My opinion also, Art

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: frogprince
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 04:59 PM

You know very well God only wants to hear it in English, the language He wrote it in!
Bush came off as a nice parody of himself with his fuss over it.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Pauline L
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 09:21 PM

Bush finally said something I agree with. As FDR said we are a nation of immigrants and revolutionaries. All the immigrant groups other than Hispanics throughout our history have learned English. Many immigrants and their children speak two languages, their mother tongue and English. Most immigrant groups strongly encourage their kids to learn English and get a formal education so they can get ahead. Up until recently, no particular effort was made to help immigrants learn English, and I'm glad that that has changed and ESL classes are given. I've taught English to immigrants, including Chinese and Hispanic kids. Some public schools in my area of the country have a tandem system. Students can choose to go all the way through school in classes taught in English or in classes taught in Spanish. I'm opposed to this. I have a lot of friends who are immigrants, notably one Russian couple. They have told me that when they make a phone call and hear, "Press 1 to continue in English and [two to continue in Spanish]" they want to know what number to press to continue in Russian. In any group containing both native speakers of English and immigrants, should we allow time for people to sing the national anthem in English, Spanish, German, Italian, Chinese, Vietnamese, Laotian, Tagalog, Urdu, Parsi, Hebrew, Arabic, etc.? It is much harder to learn English if your native language is, for example, Vietnamese than if it is Spanish. I believe that people who come to live in this country, get jobs, pay taxes, send their kids to public schools, and/or benefit from any government-funded social welfare programs should learn to read, write, and speak English. It's really not asking too much of them. Singing the national anthem in Spanish is too much in-your-face resistance to learning to speak English, our common language.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Deckman
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 10:05 PM

What an amazing switch that has happened in the last 125 years! Both of my Grandparents came to America from Finland in the 1880's. They met and married over "here." My Father was born in this country, yet he was raised in an "all Finnish" community. Church, school and the neighborhood was ALL FINNISH. When he was brought by his parents to Washington state, at the age of 8, he encountered "English" for the first time.

When Dad went to public school for the first time, he and his sisters and brother were teased and had rocks thrown at them because they were the "Finn kids!"

As I came along, I kept asking my Father to teach me Finnish, so that I could say the Lord's prayer with my beloved Grandmother, in her only tongue. He refused because he was now an "American", and it was a stain to speak his native tongue.

Finally, at age 13, he started to teach me. Many years later, my beloved Father and I took Finnish language lessons together at the "Nordic Hertitage Museum" in Seattle.

So many years ... so wasted.

English only ... HOW STUPID CAN YOU GET! With respect to other opinions, Bob(deckman)Nelson (KITTOS)

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 11:43 PM

This guy is such an ass and the Dems are so weak........Bush has trampled over the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, thrown the economy in the shitter, padded the pockets of the rich while we all pay three bucks a gallon for gas, and not one thing is being done/investigated by the opposition........and we impeached Clinton for a blow job.

The SSB has no meaning to this administration and I am amazed that they should care about a Spanish version.....except to exemplify their bigotry.

Spaw

Subject: LYR ADD: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish - Nuevos Himno
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 12:03 AM

I like the words they chose, slightly different from the orginal. If they want to sing it as a protest song, in the language of their choice, why not...it doesn't mean they don't know or aren't learning English. Or, that they don't know the English version. 61% of English speakers don't even know all of the words according to a recent poll. We need more protest songs to reach the people and galvanise them to action against this administration. There are a lot more important things to be concerned about than what language a person prefers to use. Here are the lyrics in both languages.

Lyrics to 'Nuestro Himno' ('Our Hymn')

    Amanece, lo veis?, a la luz de la aurora?
    lo que tanto aclamamos la noche caer?
    sus estrellas sus franjas
    flotaban ayer
    en el fiero combate
    en señal de victoria,
    fulgor de lucha, al paso de la libertada.
    Por la noche decían:
    "Se va defendiendo!"
    Oh decid! Despliega aún
    Voz a su hermosura estrellada,
    sobre tierra de libres,
    la bandera sagrada?
    Sus estrellas, sus franjas,
    la libertad, somos iguales.
    Somos hermanos, en nuestro himno.
    En el fiero combate en señal de victoria,
    Fulgor de lucha, al paso de la libertada.
    Mi gente sigue luchando.
    Ya es tiempo de romper las cadenas.
    Por la noche decían: "!Se va defendiendo!"
    Oh decid! Despliega aún su hermosura estrellada
    sobre tierra de libres,
    la bandera sagrada?


English translation:

    By the light of the dawn, do you see arising,
    what we proudly hailed at twilight's last fall?
    Its stars, its stripes
    yesterday streamed
    above fierce combat
    a gleaming emblem of victory
    and the struggle toward liberty.
    Throughout the night, they proclaimed:
    "We will defend it!"
    Tell me! Does its starry beauty still wave
    above the land of the free,
    the sacred flag?
    Its stars, its stripes,
    liberty, we are the same.
    We are brothers in our anthem.
    In fierce combat, a gleaming emblem of victory
    and the struggle toward liberty.
    My people fight on.
    The time has come to break the chains.
    Throughout the night they proclaimed, "We will defend it!"
    Tell me! Does its starry beauty still wave
    above the land of the free,
    the sacred flag?


kat

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 12:10 AM

I would imagine that a Spanish version of the Star-Spangled Banner already exists in New Mexico. I remember the New Mexico law books, printed in Spanish, in my grandfather's Santa Fé office, and the speeches in Spanish in the State legislature. The practice has stopped, since most New Mexicans of Spanish ancestry could read English by the time WW2 came along.
Spanish is the second language of the United States, recognized or not. Why not?, as Sorcha asks.

In Canada, where I live now, both French and English are official languages, and the anthem is sung in both languages. All foods must have labels in both languages. Sometimes usage differs; an example is canned chowder. The English label reads 'New England Clam Chowder'; the French label on the other side of the can reads 'Chaudrée de Palourdes du Maine'.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 12:18 AM

Heh! I want to hear it in Russian... ;-D

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 12:58 AM

Having a "common language" doesn't mean one must give up their original language. And the idea of translating any song into another language has appeal--it means there is a desire to sing that song in ones own language. Including any anthem, hymn, dirge, or other ceremonial type song. I like the idea that it not only has been translated but that it sounds so good in that form (and probably much easier to sing!)

Has anyone mentioned lately that Bush is an Ass?

SRS

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 02:00 AM

A great many people have been mentioning it on opinion surveys, but the majority of them appear to prefer the word "idiot".

Me, I think he's looking for support where he thinks he can find it...in his chosen constituency. I also think the basic gameplan of the $y$tem is and always has been to divide the public against each other. A squabble between Hispanics and whites is part of the gameplan, just like the endless trouble and provocation between blacks and whites or Republicans and Democrats.

It's simple. It's called: Divide and Conquer. The more divided the ordinary people are against one another the less they are in any good position to defend their civil rights or to oppose the increasing control of society by a corrupt and immoral ruling order that serves one master and one alone.... The Almighty $$$.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Deckman
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 06:35 AM

LH ... You are absolutly correct! Bob

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 08:31 AM

I think Americans should do a little critical thinking. This whole matter was probably started by a mischievous person who wanted to ask Bush a question that had no possible good answer. (Kind of like "Does this dress make me look fat?")

Don't you think the Prez has more important things to worry about?

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: DebC
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 10:45 AM

I always find it amusing that most Americans, when singing our National Anthem, do not realise that the tune was taken by FS. Keyes from a well-known drinking song of the time, "To Anacreon In Heaven". I am sure the historians on here will expound on the history of that ditty from the Anacreontic Society.

Debra

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Kaleea
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 04:08 PM

When I was in Music school (many, many, many, etc., moons ago) I was required to sing in whatever language I happened to find written lyrics under the notes. Sometimes, there were lyrics in at least two different languages. On occasion, I was even given an Art Song in "English," and, quite rarely, my teacher gave me an Aria in English. Rare, because Operas are infrequently written in English--you know, that there language them thar British people talk.
Now, what I'd really like to hear is a National Anthem for the good ol' US of A which is in our American language--cause I just never could get that English accent quite right!
(Oh, yeah--America the Beautiful was written by an American in America. hmmmmmm . . .    )

I've seen several different sets of Spanish lyrics. Which is correct? So--can I hear the Spanish version online for free? Or, do I have to buy it? Maybe what I really need is some sheet Music with the Spanish lyrics printed under the notes so's I can figger out where all the syllables go.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 05:04 PM

I have found lyrics in several reports, but I don't know if any of them have been edited or abbreviated.

Kat, where did you get your lyrics? They are the most complete that I have seen.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 06:01 PM

Oh say, can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What they stealthily climbed, at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose tall poles and tight chains, made the perilous climb,
O'er the barbed wire they slid, and are now slightly bleeding?

And the search light's white glare, the dogs sniffing the air,
As they patrolled the fence but Jose was not there.
Jose, will that barbed wire barrier keep you away?
Will it deter all your friends? or will they come anyway?

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 06:10 PM

ROTFL! THAT is the anthem for our times.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 07:43 PM

I'd have thought that this would have been seen as en encouraging affirmation that Spanish-speaking Americans actually saw the USA as a country to feel loyal towards. I rather think that is the way this kind of thing would be regarded in most sensible countries, if it happened there. The reaction to it voiced by Bush sounds undignified and oddly insecure.

The reason apparently given for changing that line about "the rockets red glare" and so forth, I suppose, reflects the fact that a lot of Americans evidently assume that the rockets and bombs being mentioned in the song are American rockets and bombs, and are being celebrated. In fact, of course they are British missiles aimed at defiant Americans, which is what the song is all about. The replacement line expresses admirable sentiments, though it is less colourful, but maybe it's less liable to be misunderstood.

Incidentally, there's a story that the tune is one originally made by Turlough O'Carolan. True or not, it's an indication that it's a pretty good tune, for the story to be credible. I wonder now if Mr Bush would object if someone translated it into the Irish and recorded it?

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 07:50 PM

Typical far left wing idiotic anti-American responses.

It was written in English and English is the national language of America.

Sing it in the correct national language of our country. Immigrants of the past learned it this way. Spanish is not the language of the United States. You want to talk Spanish, talk it at home, but we are not going to change our signs, our language and let you take over the country.

Learn to live in america and become citizens like immigrants of the past have.

Deal with it.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 07:56 PM

Now...don't get upset, Martin. If it wasn't for the French, you Americans would all be speaking English! ;-)

I still want to hear it in Russian.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 07:56 PM

"You"???

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 08:00 PM

I don't want to take over the USA, but my dog is willing to if the opportunity is there.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 08:16 PM

I hear they're replacing the Statue of Liberty in NY Harbor with one of Dumbya, minatures of which will be placed at quarter mile intervals on the Mexican border. George will be holding his dick in one hand and a .357 in the other and the inscription will be similar to that of Emma Lazarus............

Send us your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
C'mon all you dumbass stoop laborers...
And if y'all don't learn the language in short order,
Fuck 'ya!

Spaw

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 08:28 PM

In Canada, where I live now, both French and English are official languages, and the anthem is sung in both languages.(Q - 30 Apr 06 - 12:10 AM)

I believe "O Canada" was actually written in French and translated into English later. So far as I know French speaking Canadians did not protest at this.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 08:33 PM

I believe the term "Canadian" began as "Canadien" which was a French word used by the French settlers to describe themselves.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Peter T.
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 08:58 PM

The Canadian anthem is unknown in both official languages!!!

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 08:59 PM

If it wasn't for the French, there would be no such thing as body odor.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 09:32 PM

Not pertinent to the U. S. anthem and Spanish versions, but false interpretation of the words Canada and Canadian are popping up here.

The generally accepted version (let's emphasize that) as taught to little Canucks in school is:
In 1535, Huron Indians told Jacques Cartier the way to their village. Their word for place or village was 'kanata'. Cartier applied the name to the area dominated by the chief of the Hurons. This appeared in Cartier's writings, 1536.
By 1547, the name was applied to all of the area north of the St. Lawrence River. Cartier called the St. Lawrence 'riviere du Canada.' In the early 1700's, the name Canada was applied as far south as Louisiana.
In 1791, the province of Quebec was divided into Upper and Lower Canada; the first official use of the name. In 1841, the two Canadas were re-united. At the time of Confederation, the name Canada was adopted for the country. Informally the names Upper and Lower Canada persisted because of the differences.

(Condensed from a website, but more detail at the Canadian government website on geographical names, http://geonames.nrcan.gc.ca/education/index_e.php

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 10:34 PM

In the long tradition of "Adams and Liberty" by Robert Treat (Tom) Paine, and the "Star Spangled Banner" itself by Francis Scott Key, this is one more political piece set to the tune of "To Anacreon in Heaven," with more slight adjustments to the rhythm and mode which have been made ever since more than a century ago (sharping the leading tone and playing it out of 6/8 rhythm).

It's not a replacement for the National Anthem, it's a riff on the "Star Spangled Banner." At least they didn't deal with the jingoistic fourth verse ("Then conquer we must...").

Now the only problem for me is getting to the old joke out of my head--the one with the punchline of "José, can you see?"

--Charlie Baum

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 11:41 PM

José cañu si?

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: GUEST,Ay Carumba
Date: 01 May 06 - 01:10 AM

"Jose can chew see?"

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 May 06 - 01:15 AM

Not sure, Q, and I couldn't find it in my history. It might have come from this site.

Debra, there are several threads about it, but the LYR ADD: To Anacreon in Heaven one is HERE

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Dunkle
Date: 01 May 06 - 07:41 AM

Doesn't Mr. Bush break into Spanish himself when he's pandering to their votes? Let's take it one step farther, and require that American presidents speak only English to their audiences...
Dunkle

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 01 May 06 - 11:23 AM

Me? I don't mind. Typical knee-jerk reaction to anything threatening that which is seen as "sacred" (like burning the flag). It would seem to me that a real conservative would be trying to figure out how to profit from it rather than condemn it (I'd be the guy selling the flags at a tidy little profit).

I think the debate over language is a little weird, especially in the Washington DC area. I've been to the Walmart and heard French, English, Russian, Greek, Hindy, Arabic, and Spanish being spoken. The signs are only in English and Spanish.

I do think that they should learn English (to keep themselves from being isolated) just as I would learn Spanish if I were to work/live in a Hispanic majority country.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 01 May 06 - 11:48 AM

Sorry, all, but the US has no national language!

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 May 06 - 12:18 PM

The USA has regional dialects. You have your Bostonian American dialect, your Texan American dialect, your Georgian American dialect, etc. They all involve speaking somewhat more the nose than Europeans, but after that they veer off into various other directions. They all are derivatives of English, but they are not English anymore. Therefore I say you Americans can thank the French for being at Yorktown, blockading Cornwallis, and thereby ensuring that you aren't all speaking English now.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 May 06 - 12:34 PM

somewhat more through the nose...

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: John Hernandez
Date: 01 May 06 - 12:55 PM

There is a big difference between Latinos and most other ethnic nationalities in the United States. The other people (Germans, Russians, Greeks, Irish, Italians, Chinese, etc. etc.) came to the United States. In the case of Latinos, the United States came to them. First in Louisiana which was Spanish territory for many years before Spain was forced to give it back to France. The name Louisiana is really a Spanish name. The French name is Louisiane. Then in Florida. Then in a big way in northern Mexico. Finally in Puerto Rico. So Spanish is just as much a language of the United States as English is. They are both languages of the conquerors and colonists, and neither language is indigenous. But if you look at the history you can see that Spanish was spoken here before English because Saint Augustine was settled before Jamestown.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: M.Ted
Date: 01 May 06 - 01:05 PM

Actually, LH, linguists seem to think that the British have veered off from from the older pronunciations--not the Americans--

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 May 06 - 01:57 PM

Adding a little to the post by John Hernandez, settlement in the Upper Rio Grande Valley (Santa Fé and Albuquerque area) began in 1598 officially; a few were there a little earlier.
In junior high school in Santa Fé we had a full course in New Mexico history, but U. S. history had been taught in bits and pieces in grade school, never emphasized as a course. As a result, we Anglos celebrated thanksgiving but for many it was just another gringo day.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: GUEST,Martin gibson
Date: 01 May 06 - 03:04 PM

John Hernandez, spanish is not the language of the United states. English is the national language. Our currency is printed in it, our government is conducted in it, and our courts are also conducted in it.

Spanish is a secondary immigrant language, like many others. Please don't bend the rules for yourself. Also our flag is the Stars and Stripes, rightside up, not the Mexican flag.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Anonny Mouse
Date: 01 May 06 - 03:21 PM

Ridiculous! You don't go to work for Ford with a Chevy T-shirt. If these folks want to be "Americans" let them learn the language, as all immigrants did, and quit the Xenophobic huberis. America DOES have a "national language"--despite all its dialects. It's a *form* of English.

So, if we had a massive influx of Chinese willing to work at Walmart, Taco Bell, wherever, should we also have a Chinese version of the National Anthem too? This is the stupidest thing I've heard lately. I can't believe it's even an issue. Geeez.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: GUEST,Martin gibson
Date: 01 May 06 - 03:22 PM

Peurto rico is not part of the United States. It is not a state. It is NOT the 51st state.

what you say is ridiculous and totally untrue. It is a commonwealth or a territory, but it is not part of the United States, no matter how you and your ilk try to change the rules for yourself as you always try to do, thankfully without much to success.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Azizi
Date: 01 May 06 - 03:46 PM

I agree with posters such as John Hernadez and Q that, like Native Americans, Mexicans were here [in what is now the USA] before the Europeans. I also agree that it is important for folks living in the USA to learn English as it is the dominant language spoken in this nation. However, persons wanting to sing the US national anthem in any other language but English does not mean that the person doesn't want to speak English.

Also, it is my opinion that in his 01 May 06 - 03:21 PM post
Anonny Mouse has reversed who is xenophobic in this situation. Wanting to sing the US national anthem in Spanish doesn't make a person xenophobic. Xenophobics fear people who are different from themselves. It seems to me that the xenophibics are [some of] the people opposed to others singing the US national anthem in Spanish and not those people who are singing it in Spanish.

Here's a definition of the term "xenophobic" for those who may need to refresh their memory of the word's meaning:   

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia:

Xenophobia denotes a phobic attitude toward strangers or of the unknown. It comes from the Greek words îÝíïò (xenos), meaning "foreigner," "stranger," and öüâïò (phobos), meaning "fear." The term is typically used to describe fear or dislike of foreigners or in general of people different from one's self. For example, racism is sometimes described as a form of xenophobia. In science fiction, it has come to mean "fear of extraterrestrial things." Xenophobia implies a belief, accurate or not, that the target is in some way foreign. Prejudice against women cannot be considered xenophobic in this sense, except in the limited case of all-male clubs or institutions. The term xenophilia is used for the opposite behavior, attraction to or love for foreign persons.

The American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th edition ("DSM-IV") includes in its description of a phobia an "intense anxiety" which follows exposure to the "object of the phobia, either in real life or via imagination or video..." For xenophobia there are two main objects of the phobia. The first is a population group present within a society, which is not considered part of that society. Often they are recent immigrants, but xenophobia may be directed against a group which has been present for centuries. This form of xenophobia can elicit or facilitate hostile and violent reactions, such as mass expulsion of immigrants, or in the worst case, genocide.

The second form of xenophobia is primarily cultural, and the object of the phobia is cultural elements which are considered alien. All cultures are subject to external influences, but cultural xenophobia is often narrowly directed, for instance at foreign loan words in a national language. It rarely leads to aggression against persons, but can result in political campaigns for cultural or linguistic purification. Isolationism, a general aversion of foreign affairs, is not accurately described as xenophobia."

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: GUEST,Mick
Date: 01 May 06 - 03:51 PM

How about "Jose, can you see..."

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 May 06 - 03:56 PM

As noted before, Spanish and French were the first European immigrant languages in what is now the United States. Spanish remains a legal language in New Mexico. Original land grants by the Crown in Spain to both settlers and pueblos of the Indian peoples, and recognized by the government of the United States, are held in Sevilla, Spain, in the Archives of the Indies,where they are still being consulted to settle fine points of land ownership.
   
For practical purposes, English is the national language, and those resident in the States must be fluent in English in order to participate nationally.

Nevertheless, many citizens in the southwestern states conduct their lives mostly in Spanish, from shopping to receiving government services, to publishing and broadcasting, and certainly at home. Courts must provide translation for those not fluent in English.
Spanish is so important to hemispheric business that the Santa Fé public school system (and many others) brings in Spanish language teachers from Spain as well as Latin America.

As the numbers of Hispanics in the United States continues to increase, use of Spanish will continue to increase. Over 37.5 million
Hispanics (Latinos) are among the civilian population, over 13 per cent of the total, and the numbers are increasing. To Latinos, 'La Raza' is important; this fact alone will spur the growth of Spanish in the States.

Educated Europeans speak more than one language, Canadians legally can speak two; As time goes on I expect to see United States citizens speaking both major hemispheric languages, English and Spanish.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 May 06 - 03:57 PM

I 'think' that PR is a 'possession' of the US.....

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Stewart
Date: 01 May 06 - 05:18 PM

This whole thing is a ridiculous "to do" about nothing. By the second or third generation all these immigrant groups will be speaking English. Whether or not they still speak their native languages is another question. I would hope that they would.

Similar to Deckman's family history, and that of many of other Americans, my father grew up in a Norwegian community in Wisconsin where Norwegian was spoken at home, in the church, and other places. Norwegian was his first language; he only learned English when he started going to public school. Such will be the case, I believe, with other new immigrants, whatever their native language. It's a pity that most Americans can only speak one language, English. Speaking other languages will be more and more an economic advantage as business becomes more international.

We should certainly be free to sing or speak in whatever language we wish. This has nothing to do with being patriotic American citizens.

S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 May 06 - 05:18 PM

No, Puerto Rico is not a state, but it is a possession of the USA. It's an American territory. In any case, Azizi is quite correct that it's people who fear those whom they see as "different" who are zenophobes, and only a zenophobe could possibly be disturbed by the thought of someone singing the USA national anthem in Spanish.

Some English people in Canada get pissed when they hear the national anthem sung in French, and some French probably get pissed hearing it the other way around, and the reason is simple: in both cases, they are zenophobes with a chip on their shoulders. That's nothing to be proud of.

It ain't nothin' to get upset about, and it harms no one.

It's just like little kids beating their fists on the floor and screaming, "I want you all to do it MY way!!!! Waaaaah!!!!"

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 May 06 - 08:59 PM

There has to be some deep sense of insecurity to explain this kind of reaction. A sort of worry that the very survival of the United States isn't something that can be relied on, but that somehow it's all liable to melt away like a dream.

In a world where - rather sadly in some ways - it seems that there is an inexorable move towards English being the universal language of globalisation, it seems a bit absurd for this kind of worry for its preservation as the dominant language in the USA to emerge.

I believe that the US Declaration of Independence was first printed in German, not in English; and that in fact German very nearly got adopted as the primary language for the newly founded United Sates. I wonder how that would have changed things.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 May 06 - 09:21 PM

Esp considering both World Wars, Kevin....intersting thought.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Once Famous
Date: 01 May 06 - 09:27 PM

That's completer bullshit, Little Hawk.
fuck the word xenophobes. It is just another stupid politically correct word liberals put on people who don't see it their way.

The national anthem is to be sung in English, the language of America. There is probably not one event in this country where it is sung in Spanish.

Today's immigrants want the easy way out and I hope that they will not get it. comparing them to immigrants who have worked hard and gone through the rigors of gaining citizenship deserve it. The webacks do not if they don't follow the program.

And the moron who said that Peurto Rico is part of the U.S when it is nothing more tha OWNED commonwealth is really quite a moron. The flag has 50 stars for 50 United States.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Stewart
Date: 01 May 06 - 09:45 PM

How about singing this song to it's original tune (now the tune of the US Nat'l Anthem) in English or even in Spanish? Now wouldn't that be confusing? What would the English-only advocates of the US Nat'l Anthem say to that?

What did I hear on NPR news today about a new bill introduced (or to be introduced) in US Congress to mandate the singing of the Nat'l Anthem only in English?

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 01 May 06 - 09:58 PM

Litttle Hawk--

I haven't found it Russian yet, but thanks to my synagogue list, I can offer it to you in (transliterated) Yiddish:

-----

Oy vey! Der Star spengld bener!

Those who are interested in the controversy surrounding Nuestro Himno, the recently released Spanish language version of the National Anthem might take a look at this 1943 translation of the Star Spangled Banner into Yiddish by Dr. Abraham Asen, described as "the foremost Yiddish adapter of English poetry," and proudly presented in commemoration of the one hundred anniversary of the death of Francis Scott Key:

O'zog, kenstu sehn, wen bagin licht dervacht,
Vos mir hoben bagrist in farnachtigen glihen?
Die shtreifen un shtern, durch shreklicher nacht,
Oif festung zich hoiben galant un zich tsein?
Yeder blitz fun rocket, yeder knal fun kanon,
Hot bawizen durch nacht: az mir halten die Fohn!
O, zog, tzi der "Star Spangled Banner" flatert in roim,
Ueber land fun die freie, fun brave die heim!

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 01 May 06 - 10:05 PM

And the untransliterated Yiddish with even more verses is available at:
http://digital.library.mcgill.ca/fishstein/images/12_07%20Star%20Spangled%20Banner.jpg

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 May 06 - 10:05 PM

Well, that's pretty cool. ;-) Martin, I am not suggesting that it be sung in other languages at official functions. I am saying that if some Hispanics want to themselves sing it in Spanish that that is no threat to the United States of America. Matter of fact, it's support for the USA from a possibly somewhat unexpected direction.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 May 06 - 10:10 PM

McGrath has touched on a quirk of history; he is correct. By July 9, 1776, Heinrich Miller had made a translation and printed it in his newspaper, the German language "Philadelphischer Staatsboote."
German did not, however, 'nearly get adopted as the primary language'. Many Germans had settled in Pennsylvania, and the language remained important there for more than 100 years. Some small groups still speak it at home and English remains a second language.

Foreign language papers were common during the immigrant years.
In Texas, the German paper printed in New Braunfels was published from the 1850's until the 1950's. When I was at the University of Texas, I used German language primers from schools in the New Braunfels area as a help in learning German, a reading knowledge of which was required for the degree. I still have one of them, with its label "This book is the property of the State of Texas," and the injunction in boldface, "Pupils must not write on or mark any page of this textbook."

There are some 17 Spanish newspapers in the United States, plus English papers that have Spanish sections. Qué' Pasa, in North Carolina, has a 24/7 radio service from seven transmitters covering the State. Several of the papers have online editions.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Stewart
Date: 01 May 06 - 10:13 PM

"Sen. Lamar Alexander, R-Tenn., who supports the Senate proposal, introduced a bill Monday to make the national anthem and other "statements of national unity" officially English, a response to a recent dust-up over a Spanish-language version of the Star Spangled Banner released by the record label Urban Box Office."

And more here in the San Francisco Chronicle

S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Once Famous
Date: 01 May 06 - 10:55 PM

The song can be translated into any language.

But really, why bother? What does it really prove?

So the song can be translated into Yiddish, charlie baum. so what? I am sure that our ancestors who came here tried very hard to learn to sing it in English and that it meant more to them to sing it that way, as it should for any immigrant.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 May 06 - 02:01 AM

No, of course it doesn't prove anything to translate it into another language. But if someone wants to, so what? Are they not paying the USA a compliment by so doing? They wouldn't bother to if they didn't like the song. They just wouldn't care enough to bother in that case.

The only time songs get translated into another language are when they have attained great recognition by the people who speak that language. It's a sign of appreciation and approval when a song gets accepted into another language.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Kaleea
Date: 02 May 06 - 02:28 PM

Wow! I've never seen or heard the Nat'l anth'm in Yiddish before. I'm truly impressed, LH!

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 May 06 - 02:28 PM

My guess is that for most people in most situations their National Anthems (and equivalent songs) are taken pretty lightheartedly. Not exactly a joke, but there's an element of self-mockery about them - which doesn't of course mean that in some circumstances they can't become deadly serious and powerful expressions of solidarity.

In such circumstances, I can't imagine a better way of expressing national unity in a diverse country than to have a crowd of people singing the same song in the range of different languages they speak at home.

I suppose in a situation where people don't actually sing their national anthem, but sit in silence listening to some hired performer do it on their behalf the question of what language it's done in might be seen as significant. But doing it that way misses the whole point of having a rendering of the national anthem in the first place.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Amos
Date: 02 May 06 - 02:48 PM

As far as I'm concerned it should be translated into and sung in every language on earth.

No question what our official language is, but, hell, if it sings the praises of the country, I don't care if they sing it in Urdu.

The concept of a "land of the free and and a home of the brave" is a lot more important than which soundwaves you use to pass the thought around with.

A

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 02 May 06 - 03:06 PM

Hernandez - not to put too fine a point on it, but the Spanish came to South America first. By your reasoning we wouldn't be having this problem because the Spanish should have learned the native South American languages. And since it is theorized that the Chinese may have gotten to the S. America's first they should have probably learned Chinese. I believe the Nordics were the first European race to hit the shores of N. America. I can't see Mexicans speaking Norwegian though. All of which is moot because we should have all learned the tongues of the native Americans who lived here.

Can't we all just get along?

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 May 06 - 03:19 PM

"...should have all learned the tongues of the native Americans who lived here."

That would have provided ample room for variety - evidently there are about 800 native American languages in the Americas. Of course only a few hundred of them were or are spoken in the territories that became the United States, but still a pretty fair number.

See here.

I wonder if any versions of the Star Spangled Banner exist in any of these?

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: GUEST,Laughing in Toronto
Date: 03 May 06 - 09:52 AM

The Spanish translation of "The Star Spangled Banner" dates back to the First World War when the United States unilaterally delcared Puerto Ricans were American citizens and made them subject to the draft. Put the blame where it belongs, on Woodrow Wilson. Much more recently George W. Bush joined in singing "The Star Spangled Banner" in Spanish many times when he was campaigning in 2000. Did anyone object at that time? Now you have Congressman Peter King who wants to make it a misdemeanor punishable by a year in prison to sing "The Star Spangled Banner," or recite "The Pledge of Allegiance," or take the American citizenship oath in any language other than English. So much for the American Bill of Rights.

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 03 May 06 - 10:10 AM

An early printing of the declaration of independence in German

Yesterday, a German Green politician (far left, this guy) has suggested that the German anthem should be translated into and sung in Turkish. I don't mind really but I think that learning a hymn is a good opportunity to learn the language of a land I intend to live in (and its history too). I know Germans who have emigrated to Ireland and don't see the lack of a singable German translation of the Irish anthem an issue of even minor importance.

That Green guy of course has his constituency in mind (one third Turkish) and probably doesn't even know that Turkish is not the most common minority language in Germany. The most common is Russian.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 03 May 06 - 10:20 AM

McGrath--

So far in searching the Web, I've come upon references to the Star Spangled Banner being sung in Navajo, Cherokee, O'Odham, and Samoan, and while I haven't been able to find lyrics, or even a linkable audio version, you can purchase a CD containing the anthem partially in Cherokee at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/cherokee2.

--Charlie Baum

Subject: RE: US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 03 May 06 - 10:23 AM

I believe that the US Declaration of Independence was first printed in German, not in English (McGrath)

It depends what you call a printing. In a technical sense you are wrong. It was first printed in English. The first publicly available printing however was in German.

Wolfgang

Question: I've always thought that German was the first language the Declaration was printed in (the Steiner printing), I've just noticed that other pages say that the first printing was on the evening of July 4th by John Dunlap, which is a bit of a disappointment! Have you got any further details?

Answer: The Dunlap boradsides was an inhouse document. It was distributed to the legislatures. On July 5, copies were dispatched by members of Congress to the various assemblies. Also on July 5, a copy of of the printed version was inserted into the "rough journal" of the Continental Congress. On July 6 it was first published in English in the Pennsylvania Evening Post. On July 5 the Declaration was announed in the Pennsylvanischer Staatsbote in German and the full text was published either July 5 or 6 as a one page broadside by Steiner and Cist and appeared prior to the "Evening Post." (The Post was an evening paper).

Ruth Reichmann, Ph.D.
Max Kade German-American Center
Indiana Univ.-Purdue Univ. Indianapolis