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BS: Broke my Tractor Question...
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Subject: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Bobert Date: 24 Jul 06 - 08:35 PM Yeah, this one is fir farmer type Catters who have have been 'round machinery... Today Iz bush-hoggin' a 4 acre field with my 3650 Kubota tractor an' I'z in ahbot of checkin' the guages 'bout every 30 seconds... You know, tackometer and temp but today I see the red oil pressure light come on and shut it right down... So'z I get up unner it and the oil pan has been hit in the back??? And it's cracked and leakin' oil... Well, a trip to the local auto parts place for some J.B. Weld, an' a portable electric drill with a wire brush wheel on it and some Brake clean and the Kabuta is now down where it broke waitin' fir the J.B. Weld to set up and harder before puttin' oil back in it and seein' if the patch works but... ...hey, this is the real question: How'd this occur??? I mean, I was in a field that I've bush-hogged lots and the tractor was going forward all the time and yet the damage was at the rear of the oil pan??? I am seriously puzzeled??? Hardly any rock in the field??? Yeah, I know this is a longshot but may, jus' maybe' there's someone in Mudville who has a clue... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Peace Date: 24 Jul 06 - 08:38 PM Sometimes overheating the oil can cause the pan to crack. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: GUEST Date: 24 Jul 06 - 08:50 PM check the nut behind the wheel... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Bobert Date: 24 Jul 06 - 09:34 PM Bite me, GUEST... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Rapparee Date: 24 Jul 06 - 09:40 PM You ever at any time use reverse gear? If so, could you have hit something that dented the pan and it was only today that it cracked, perhaps from the heat? Knew a guy who punctured the gas tank on his IH. It was dripping gas, so he decided to weld it. He's now one of the dumbest angels you'll ever meet. Didn't do anything for the IH, either. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Bill D Date: 24 Jul 06 - 09:43 PM someone with a .22 behind a bush? You been playing dirty blues late at night? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Mrrzy Date: 24 Jul 06 - 09:45 PM He he! I am reminded of one of those things that my now late ex never thought was funny - he had gotten his tractor stuck in the mud, then gotten the truck stuck trying to winch the tractor out... so he was already furious; he calls me and says he's going to get someone's four-wheel drive, will I please stay and make sure no one steals his tractor...I about died laughing, what would it take to steal it, a helicopter??!? Aah, fond memories of a really bad marriage... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Charley Noble Date: 24 Jul 06 - 10:14 PM You'd sure know if you hit something hard enough to crack it. Sounds to me like there was a flaw in the metal and when it got good and hot and bothered from your bush-hoggin' it just couldn't take it. Now if you had a International Harvester Cub like me from the 1940's that would never have happened. They probably made their oil pans outta recycled armoured plate from WW II! Have you tried searching for a Kubota chatroom? Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Bert Date: 24 Jul 06 - 10:16 PM Er, you didn't fart by any chance? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Sorcha Date: 24 Jul 06 - 10:19 PM Hit a rock you didn't see? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: harpmaker Date: 24 Jul 06 - 10:22 PM Well, hello old friend, Good t see yer still cattin' around! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: number 6 Date: 24 Jul 06 - 10:25 PM Bobert ... time you got a reliable, environmentally friendly Clydesdale. sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Sorcha Date: 24 Jul 06 - 10:30 PM So, fix it dear Bobert, so fix it dear Bobert....(Hole in my bucket tune) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Dave Swan Date: 24 Jul 06 - 11:09 PM Charley, yer killin' me. A 40's Cub? Must be an early model, huh? I've got a huge soft spot for old tractors. How's she runnin? D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: harpmaker Date: 24 Jul 06 - 11:15 PM Hey, hot on my subject this. Just renovated an old Nuffield tractor. Becha never heard of um. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Sorcha Date: 24 Jul 06 - 11:15 PM Well, Swanno, she is BROKE! Izzat enough??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: open mike Date: 24 Jul 06 - 11:19 PM I'll go ask my friend~mineapolis moline~what she thinks of it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: GUEST,Bardford Date: 25 Jul 06 - 12:11 AM Rapaire - is This guy related to your buddy? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Peace Date: 25 Jul 06 - 12:18 AM That ranks up there for one of the 'stupid awards' that are given out each year. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: JohnInKansas Date: 25 Jul 06 - 12:38 AM Bobert - Chances are the crack (and dent?) happened some time ago and may have been seeping oil for some time, or the crack might have been "closed" so there wasn't much leakage. If that's the case, you should find where the tractor "marked its territory" wherever it sat while it was waiting for you to get around to givin' it some work to do, although it may not be much of a mark. If it was a slit type crack, like usually happens when there's a dent, it's also possible that a good bump on the front of the oil pan flexed things enough to open up an existing crack at the rear end and turn a "seeper" into a "gusher." Also remember that the poor machine didn't stop when the crack/leak happened. It only stopped when the oil pump stopped picking up oil and you lost pressure. That's probably at least a quart down below the add line. Usually the pickup is still good down to at least a quart or sometimes two below the add line, to give some safety margin. You don't want to run it that way on purpose, 'cause with low oil you're more likely to be suckin' up sludge from the bottom of the pan. (An ex-spouse found that her little Toyota would run 3.4 quarts below the add line without the light coming on, and you had to change the filter to make it take 4 on a change. She repeated the experiment several times. But that wasn't the only reason we parted company.) By coincidence, this afternoon I wheeled into a truck stop and saw a pair of feet stickin' out from under a fairly new Ford F250 supercab. The young lady who was watching the feet was sort of cute, so I strolled over to see what was going on, and she asked if I had a jack they could borrow. He had a fairly hefty bottle jack, but he was trying to lift a five-foot long gas tank back into place to get the bolts into the support straps, and the tank appeared to be at least half full. Looked like one of the 'tween the rails 48 gallon jobs. One jack just wasn't enough to lift it and balance it into position. I dug my scissors jack out of the storage compartment and let them have at it. I watched for a little bit to see if they knew what they wuz doin' (she was, like I said, sort of cute) but when she noticed I was watchin', even though I wasn't droolin' or nothin', she crawled down unner the truck with her guy where I couldn't see nothin' so I decided to leave 'em with their problem (and my jack). They finished it up pretty quick, returned the jack, and drove off, with him all covered with grease and the two kids smilin' and wavin' like it sorta happened every day. I never did get an explanation of how a main gas tank falls off yer truck in the middle of an Interstate truck stop 70 miles from the nearest town with a population of more than 3; but I guess there's some mysteries we're not s'posed to unnerstand. JB-Weld seems to be good stuff. It's the only available thing I could find a while back that's rated good above about 120F, except for silcones that have no useful strength. They rate JB good to 500F (260 C). Your crankcase shouldn't ever be running over about 375F, although some of the engine types say 395F is safe where the oil comes out of the block. Anything hotter will be breaking the oil down pretty quick. My guess would be that the injury is an old one, and today you just flexed the wound enough to knock the scab off. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: GUEST,Beetle Bailey Date: 25 Jul 06 - 07:27 AM Returning to the original question, isn't it possible that the bush-hog picked up some kind of missle (rock?) and flung it forward into the oil pan? Not familiar with the underside of this rig, but the tip velocities of those beaters and do some launches that will really surprise you. Just a thought. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Charley Noble Date: 25 Jul 06 - 07:54 AM John- Is there anything you can't offer useful advice about? Dave- The little Cub just keeps purring along. The seals are pretty much shot but one just keeps adding essential fluids. My brother-in-law and I do an annual old tractor workshop every spring. She's a 1949 model and father was careful to keep all the original paperwork where we could find it when puzzled. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Long Firm Freddie Date: 25 Jul 06 - 07:55 AM Perhaps you might consider getting one of these! Yamaha Ad (MP3) LFF |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Long Firm Freddie Date: 25 Jul 06 - 07:58 AM Sorry to our more genteel members, I forgot to say that the language gets a bit blue in the clip I've linked to. LFF |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: GUEST,Ex-tractor fan Date: 25 Jul 06 - 08:14 AM I guess your ex tractor need a new fan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Bobert Date: 25 Jul 06 - 08:50 AM Well, from the looks of the crack, it had just happened... You see, there is a definate dent and actually one big crack and several smaller ones branchin' out from the big one... The big one is a good 1/8th inch so this tells me that the oil was comin' out quite rapidly... I'm sure I caught it before any damamge occured since I'm always lookin' at the tach when bushhoggin' to keep my RPM's at 2500 and the light is right under it... Another 8 hours and I'll know if the J.B. Weld is working since you have to wait 24 hours to let it fully harden... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Rapparee Date: 25 Jul 06 - 08:51 AM Ol' Bob, who tried the welding bit, went to high school with me. His welding ranking right up there with the guy from the old 'hood who built a pipe bomb (for the Fourth of July), realized that he had capped it without leaving a hole for the fuse, and took an electric drill to one of the nipple ends while it was still screwed on. He never was the loudest firecracker in the string until then. And both of these stories are true, and both helped to rid the world of the gene for stupidity. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: bobad Date: 25 Jul 06 - 10:21 AM I cracked the oil pan on a 1950's Ferguson tractor by riding up over a stone and never knew it until too late, ended up replacing the crank bearings and learning a lesson. Maybe a stone got flung out at your pan by the bush hog Bobert. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Charley Noble Date: 25 Jul 06 - 08:26 PM Maybe it was aliens. Or maybe the groundhogs were just getting back at you for disturbing their quiet enjoyment. You're lucky your field wasn't infested by wombats; you and your tractor might never have surfaced again! Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Bobert Date: 25 Jul 06 - 08:45 PM Well, went down to visit Mr. Ku tghis mornin' and there was a little crack that I missed so I put yet another layer of the J.B. Weld on her so tomorrow mornin' will be 24 hours an' I'll be down there gettin' my tractor back to tractorin'... Livin' on a farm, I've realized, means playin' mechanic at least one day a week... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: JohnInKansas Date: 25 Jul 06 - 10:15 PM Bobert - In farmin' it generally "ain't broke" if it can be fixed. It just "needs another adjustment." Charley - Is there anything you can't offer useful advice about? Did you have to put that "useful" in there? John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: GUEST,Old Guy Date: 25 Jul 06 - 11:18 PM Obviously something was thrown by the blades hard enough to crack the oil pan. I had an old Ford redbelly or two and the oil pan WAS the tractor. You could remove the engine and push them around with only the oil pane holding the front end to the transmission. Those things were indestructable but unfortunately obselete. I replaced mine with a Kubota that I treat very tenderly because they are far from indestructable. Bush hogging is a dangerous job. Something can crack the back of your head just like it did the oil pan. It have heard all kinds of storys like the guy that got a piece of barbed wire through his chest. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: GUEST,Old Guy Date: 28 Jul 06 - 04:12 PM Seriously Bobert, I would replace that oil pan. JB weld ain't to be trusted over a period of time. I did use something named steel putty epoxy to fix rust holes in the oil pan on my old Ford pickup but it is more or less disposable since I got my newer Chevvy pickup. I use the Ford to haul stone and stuff. I got another story about bustin the oil pan in an old Mercedes deisel if you are interested. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: JohnInKansas Date: 28 Jul 06 - 09:36 PM Properly applied, and used within the temperature and chemical exposure limits that are fairly obvious for a material of its kind, the JB Weld can be considered about as permanent as any other sort of patch. Assuming a sheetmetal pan, the JB is strong enough to hold together if the metal flexes within reason, and if the metal that's left around it ain't all gone there's no good reason the plug of JB shouldn't stay in place. Proper application does require fairly good cleaning of the surfaces you want it to stick to. A good methanol or lacquer thinner wipe is one of the recommended methods of cleaning. If the hole is a straight through puncture, just plugging it with something that will stop the oil from running out is all that's needed. If the hole is a crack or tear that has "sharp ends" where the crack could grow, of course an old hand like Bobert will have drilled "crack stops" at the ends of the cracks. A proper crack-stop should have a diameter at least 3x the metal thickness as a rule of thumb. For sheetmetal of the thickness I'd imagine for an oil pan, about a 3/16 or even 1/4 inch diameter drilled hole that cuts off the end of the crack, or that's placed so that any growth in the crack obviously will be "into the hole" should be adequate. Of course then you'll have to plug the crack-stop holes too, but the JB is just a cork to keep the juice on the inside. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Rapparee Date: 28 Jul 06 - 09:42 PM I'd replace the oil pan, myself. It's a lot less expensive than burnin' up the machine. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: JohnInKansas Date: 28 Jul 06 - 09:51 PM I'd certainly watch the patch for a bit, and be ready to replace the pan at the first hint of new leakage. It kind of depends on one's attitude about makin' right vs makin' do. And on one's confidence in his/her own repair - ability. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: GUEST,Old Guy Date: 28 Jul 06 - 11:57 PM A patch is just a patch. A replacement is a repair. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Peace Date: 29 Jul 06 - 02:10 AM The voice of George Burns . . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 29 Jul 06 - 04:45 AM Hope your Tractor Question is fixed soon Bobert... Damn funny name for a tractor though... or ain't yo sure if she gonna start? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: GUEST,Old Guy Date: 29 Jul 06 - 09:50 AM I am sure peace knows knows all about tractors. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Bobert Date: 29 Jul 06 - 11:59 AM Update: The JB Weld is currently holdin' up fine but I will both keep an eye on the patch as well as plan to replace the pan in the fall when I don't need to be usin' it as much as I do... Looks like an all day job seein' as it ain't like Old Guy's ol' Ford which ain't nuthin'... Yeah, I used to have a 9-N an' you can get to everything on them quite easily... But I don't miss the 9-N one bit... Hard on yer left leg if yer doin' much of anything... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: GUEST,Old Guy Date: 29 Jul 06 - 12:46 PM On the Ford truck I got to take off the starter and exhaust pipes and do a bunch of jackin to get the pan off. On a 9N you got to take off the hood, gas tank, front end and unbolt the tranny to get the pan off. Breaking it in half they called it because you had two pieces, from the transmission back and the front end. But the oil pan was bullet proof. Probably the only thing that never had to be replaced. I remember one time I had 39" of snow with a hard crust. The old 9N didn't have chains but it got traction after digging down to the frozen ground. It would slide up on top of the crust on the oil pan like an ice breaker. Then come crashin' down. I used to pull stumps by hitching them up close with a chain so the pull would be upward like. I would pull and let the tractor rare up till the front wheels were a foot or two off the ground. Then I would stomp the clutch and pop it out when the front wheels were about 6" from the ground. That would loosen the stump and after about 4 of those clutch poppings and a little root chopping, it would come out like a rotten tooth. Don't know how I even lived to tell about it with no ROPS. It could have went over backwards or a chain could have broke, smacked me in the back of my head and kilt me right then and there. Young and reckless I was. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Charley Noble Date: 29 Jul 06 - 02:02 PM Old Guy- You got the making of a good song in that description! Tractors "raring up" on their hind wheels can be a deadly experience! Many a man has been crushed as the tractor has fallen over backwards. My father once had to bail out of the International Harvester Cub once as he was backing it up to dump a load of rubbish over the lip of a gully. Sure enough the brakes failed and after he bailed out the tractor landed upside down below. We managed to haul it out with a larger tractor (with better brakes), hammer the steering post straight again, and she ran fine! Try that out with your new state of the art tractor, Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Bobert Date: 29 Jul 06 - 07:41 PM Yeah, the 9-N would do some solid work... And un like the International Farmalls it had a cultivater front end so it didn't roll as easily... But the somagun 9-N's would solid work you... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Lady Hillary Date: 30 Jul 06 - 03:18 PM EBarnacle here. Is it possible that a rod or cap nut got thrown against the pan? Be real careful. By the way, the sooner you order the new pan, seals and gaskets, the sooner yawl will have the pahts ready to be installed at yaw convenients. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: Bobert Date: 30 Jul 06 - 08:41 PM Thanks, mame, but I'll be orderin' the new pan and gasket this comin' week as I have have just found that the old one was hit so hard that even the JB Weld isn't holdin' 100%.... Good nuff 'til I get a pan in and a day to replace it but it's gonna have to have a new pan... I was u8nner it tyonight an lookin' at what had to get removed and it's a lot... The drive shaft bein' opne of 'um... It runs in a long tube right in the middle of the pan... Danged... I really thought the JB Weld would get it done but it was hit purdy hard and cracked in several places... Oh well, like my dad used to say: "It'll keep you outta the pool hall..." Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: bobad Date: 30 Jul 06 - 08:46 PM Bobert, from my experience you should adjust the angle of your Bush Hog so that the front or leading edge is slightly lower than the rear or trailing edge and this may prevent stones and other stuff being thrown at your tractor. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Broke my Tractor Question... From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 31 Jul 06 - 02:30 AM ...that way, you can safely aim it at the neighbours... |
