So do we live to die and comeback ....?

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Jan 18 - 04:08 AM

Like Bill, I read this thread all the way through and enjoyed it. A few bittersweet thoughts for the losses we have suffered in the interim. (You suppose they are aware of this thread, Bill?:)

Steve Shaw: "If you exist at all on this planet, you are a winner thousands of times beyond any millionaire lottery winner."

I have a different view of that, Steve. Even though I don't quite understand my own hypothesis, here it is: If I had not been born, I would still be I, I would just be in a different body.

Somehow, it makes sense to me.

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 18 - 08:47 PM

Nope, That looks like a powerful environmental statement.
'There is no away'
-----------------

Ego destruction is not a benefit to everyone. A well balanced person tempers and consciously uses ego to its best abilities quite naturally. Perhaps we call that charisma. The charisma of Obama is controlled but organic.

Shall we say the Trump personae is morbidly ego overweight and core poor. To me his charisma is totally synthetic and toxic.
Hitlers and Trumps are the injured psychologique not the reincarnated fortunate.

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 18 - 08:03 PM

I've made this point before in other threads. I understand why people believe in afterlifes and reincarnation but I think they are being irrational, for the following reason. Be patient...

If you exist at all on this planet, you are a winner thousands of times beyond any millionaire lottery winner. Millions of times even. Your father in his lifetime produced hundreds of billions of sperms. Your mother produced tens of thousands of eggs. Your parents were only there because their fathers and mothers also produced hundreds of billions of sperms and tens of thousands of eggs, and so on, going back in time as long as you like (the further you go back, the more astronomical the numbers become).

You are here as a a result of one sperm fertilising one egg. Just think: any one of hundreds of millions of other sperms could have got to that egg first. But the one that got there was you. Likewise, that amazing sperm just happened upon one out of tens of thousands of possible eggs. You are you because of the fortuitous meeting of one out of billions of sperms with one out of thousands of eggs. Lucky you! There were hundreds of trillions of possible combinations, but here you are, you!

Now my point is that, to an awful lot of people, that isn't enough. Not only are you here and doing rather well thank you very much, you want even more. You can't stand the thought that, one day, you'll either be a pile of ash or you'll be underground being consumed by bacteria, fungi and Annelida. You want an afterlife or you want to be back in another guise (preferably not as a slug or mosquito). But you're forgetting those hundreds of trillions of potential combinations that never quite made it. If only the sperm second in the race to that egg had done a little turn, you wouldn't be here being you at all   There'd be no you. There'd be somebody completely different.

So I think that we should be deliriously happy with our earthly span and stop looking for even more. If I ever get to heaven I want to see all those nearly-people up there having even more fun than me. I hope there's room. They deserve that because they missed out on existence. We should all be more than happy with our lot and give way when the hour cometh. Amen!

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Jan 18 - 06:47 PM

Don... the ego, perhaps?

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 18 - 07:19 PM

People used to ask me to assist in giving them a past lives regression
I still don't accept the reality of past lives however I never had the experience of interviewing/hypnotizing a child who claims such abilities and memories.

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 18 - 07:10 PM

Yes Bill, The deeper idea is that reincarnation soothes the ego by making something up that guards the self constructed concept of self.
We heard Einstein say "Time is only a persistent illusion". Well it sure feels real 'don't it?'
That's how I view the ego. Just like your face, it is not even half of what and who you are. But we all to easily get tricked into believing "of course that's me, I can hear my own thoughts and can taste my food etc..

When Joe felt attacked this what I offered to try and get him to ally his ego's fears;

Ego boundaries make enemies that do not exist Joe. I will now be speaking in psych terms. I don't expect you to get it right away except to say, no one is attacking you, except yourself.

This is all naturally confounding until you have the ah ha moment.

In religion the ego manifests as the Devil. And of course no one realizes how smart the ego is because it created the devil so you could blame someone else. The ego is the worst confidence trickster we could ever imagine because you don't see it. It's con is "I am you. The ego hides in the last place you would ever look, within itself. It disguises its thoughts as your thoughts it disguises its feelings as your feelings. You think its you.
People who need to protect their own egos knows no bounds, they lie, deny, cheat, steal, kill, do whatever it takes to maintain ego boundaries. People have no clue they are in a kind of prison, they don't know they have an ego, They don't know the distinction.
At first it is hard for the mind to accept there is something beyond itself, there is something of greater value, that there is something greater than itself. There is no such thing as an external enemy, no matter what that voice in your head is telling you, all projection of an enemy is a projection of the ego as an enemy. Your greatest enemy is your own ego, your own ignorance, your own casting of your own enemies. These come from a variety of religious teachings and psychology, not just one dogma or a religion that collects and trains egos.

Finding the ah ha moment is most challenging for a straight line (linear} person to achieve.
Then you will know We are not bigots, we are not the enemy.

So Bill, reincarnation is an overcoat for a chilly ego.

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jan 18 - 06:21 PM

I think the thread stayed on track and civil because the contributors made it so. There was a distinct absence of the bigotry and invective we see on other threads. I have drawn my own conclusions as to why but would leave it to others to make up their own minds.

DtG

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: keberoxu
Date: 26 Jan 18 - 12:05 PM

robomatic, that is a glorious contribution, thank you.

Skarpi's initial post to this thread,
while its English could be smoother,
is so sincere and courageous.
What a coward I am next to him.
He is so brave to disclose his questioning and his quest,
his doubts and wonderings.
I'm scared to do even that much.

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Jan 18 - 11:46 AM

The Cranes
-Yuri Gulyaev

(The original is in Russian)


Sometimes it seems to me that the soldiers,
Which haven't returned from blood's fields,
Haven't lain in our land,
But have turned into white cranes.

From those distant times
They fly and we hear their voices.
Is it because so often and so sadly
We are falling silent and looking into heaven?

The tired crane flock flies, flies through the sky,
Flies in the mist at the end of the day.
And it is a small gap in this order -
Perhaps this place is for me.

The day will come, and in such crane flock
I'll swim in the same blue-gray haze.
Calling out like a bird from the heavens
All of you who are left on earth.

Sometimes it seems to me that the soldiers,
Which haven't returned from blood's fields,
Haven't lain in our land,
But have turned into white cranes.

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jan 18 - 10:31 AM

I just re-read this entire thread..(over 2 days). I often do that before looking to see who refreshed it and why.

   I am often amazed at how we (the generalized 'we', as well as the 'members of Mudcat we') can do a decent job of expressing some of the most compelling concepts & opinions that concern us strange human folk.

I am also bewildered sometimes at how easily some can miss the import of what others are trying to say, and reply with pithy remarks that don't really address the point.

   There have been a number of threads in which these topics have appeared, but I think this is probably MY most exacting attempt to 'get at' the underlying basis of most confusions. I won't re-hash it all today, as I'm not sure I could improve on what I said 11 years ago.

"...nobody posted anything horribly combative in this particular thread.." No, probable because the main contributors....Me, Amos, Janie, Little Hawk, Katlaughing... and maybe Ebbie & Dave the Gnome.... have shared many other debates in the past, and several of us (them?) have met RT and made music together & shared small talk on a myriad of topics.

I **still** do not feel that my main technical points about philosophy and logic got across for some who were just too psychologically committed to a particular 'belief system'... or beliefs ABOUT belief systems.
(As of today, I can ask folks to note how impossible is is to explain the flaws in Donald Trump to his most fervent base followers. They believe...or just accept... principles that many of us find abhorrent, and there is NO use telling them their basic premises are wrong.)

keberoxu: I really am not sure exactly how your botanical 'truism' fits as a metaphor for the human condition.

Donuel: I 'almost' see the underlying idea in your "overcoat for a cold ego." remark, but I'd have to see if it is similar to well-known quotes about religion being a crutch......

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 18 - 05:33 AM

You know why most plants are green?

the best answer is not chlorophyll,

its deeper than that.

and here is your flack

The sun radiates the least energy in the green spectrum so reflecting green light allows absorption of the more energetic colors. Black would be too hot.

...

reincarnation is an overcoat for a cold ego.

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and come back ....?
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Jan 18 - 08:08 PM

Unless I am blocking what I read over here,
nobody posted anything horribly combative in this particular thread,
which is . . . an accomplishment, negative in a sense, but still an accomplishment.   

And started by Skarpi, bless his cotton socks.

I wasn't around when this thread began, or went to sleep.
Maybe I will catch flack for posting to it.

Here's one way of easing into the question -
with another question.
Who was it from whom I steal this quote:

"a plant does not have to believe in photosynthesis
in order to turn green"?

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Amos
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 02:31 PM

Bill:

The problem with words is they often like precise definitions. I did not say "faith". I said "belief".

As far as I am concerned a "belief" at ANY level of one's cognitive architecture is a postulated memetic field structure, within which certain postulated perceptions obtain.

This can be anything from a high metaphysical proposition like "I exist" to the more normal run-of-the-mill beliefs like "I am male" or "I am confused" or "money is everything" or "c is a constant".

These cogntive constructions bring about filtered perception; those perceptions proceed to prove the concept, by providing appropriate experience.

This is a VERY short hand version -- there is a great deal to know about this aspect of cognitive science, which is badly shortchanged in the 'brain' field (for reasons which fromr this perspective seem horribly obvious -- the brain field admits no "sourcehood" or "creative" aspect to existence.)

A

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 01:32 PM

Here's how faith works...

2 men, a religious man and an atheist, are on a sinking ship in a violent storm. The religious man has faith in God, reason, and practicality. The atheist has faith in just reason and practicality, period. At the last minute they are saved! (...and who cares how?) The religious man finds his faith confirmed by this experience. So does the atheist. ;-) They go on disagreeing passionately about it for years afterward ("God sent that helicopter!" "No, he didn't, the Coast Guard sent it! There is no God!") until one of them finally dies. Does he find out who was right and who was wrong when he dies or does he just cease to exist? Tune in next millenium for the definitive answer to this vexing question.

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 01:26 PM

Is is "eyes" (I)s...some silly pun like that

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 01:20 PM

What is is?

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 01:14 PM

LOL, Ebbie! Yeah....I guess that proves it!...no, wait...it was a 'near-death' experience! I wonder if all its posts passed before its "Is".........

















I'll get my coat...

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 12:56 PM

Ah ha! There you have it, Bill. Life after death!

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 12:50 PM

them why didn't you let it die????? It was at 23 hrs... almost off the bottom!

I was gradually letting go of my compulsion to comment on the relationship of 'experience' to faith.........

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 12:38 PM

I've had enough this go round thanks.

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 01:53 PM

I agree, Amos. Experience, more often than not, is the product OF belief, because belief dominates how people interpret their experiences.

Now and then, of course, it happens the other way around too. ;-)

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: dianavan
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 12:30 PM

Kant makes sense to me.

"...all knowledge begins with experience".

I also think that faith (beliefs) can also be based on experience.

Are you saying that faith has no experiencial basis?

I was not indoctrinated and have arrived at my beliefs through life experience. Systems of belief do not have to be pre-packaged.

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 10:44 AM

Well, durn, Amos...I was carefully avoiding that point. I am surprised to hear you state it in a manner that I rather agree with. I suspect that we would make slightly different inferences from that beginning.

(I once posted quotes from Kant & Hume on the Dept. of Philosophy bulletin board.....almost identical, they referred to the basic premise that "all knowledge begins with experience".....under them, I put the disclaimer..."Well, so far, so good...")

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Amos
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 10:22 AM

D:

We come to believe what we believe through personal experience. When we believe the experience, it becomes a very personal knowlege. Attempts to share this do not become another's experience, knowlege or belief. Its only what you know.


I think it is more probable that we come to experience what we experience from personal belief. When we experience the effects of belief, it becomes a proof of that personally created knowledge.

I hope you will forgive me for altering the intent of your writing. But I think the counter-example speaks as loudly as the original -- that experience is itself the product of belief, not just its birthplace. The belief "I exist", for example, has all kinds of powerful ramifications.

A

A

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: *daylia*
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 09:47 AM

Me neither. It's beautiful, and I wouldn't dream of smudging it.

I'm glad you agree that belief in rebirth is a philosophy; an intriguing, very ancient and universal one - not necessarily just a whim to be used as a personal cop-out or a crutch. Although some do use it that way, just as others use Christian philosophy to convince themselves that even though they have only one 'shot at the goal' so to speak, no matter what they may say think or do Jesus has already saved them by paying off all their debts, in advance.

(And everybody else's too. What a Nice Guy!   ;-)

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 02:09 PM

....ain't even gonna touch that one.

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: dianavan
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 01:48 PM

We come to believe what we believe through personal experience. When we believe the experience, it becomes a very personal knowlege. Attempts to share this do not become another's experience, knowlege or belief. Its only what you know.

When my daughter was very young, she astounded me by telling me that when she was born, she knew everything and that each day she forgot more and more.

That fits with my belief that our souls are individual and when our bodies die, we join other souls in an all-knowing, spiritual consciousness until its time to be re-born. When we are a part of the spiritual consciousness, we appear as stars in the sky.

I also believe that our ancestors guide us. This may be a part of our genetic make-up or it may be that we can access our guides through 'prayer'. It may also be that they are able to access us to guide us or intervene in a crisis.

I think we all get glimpses of our past lives and that it is our sense of wonder that stimulates our minds. Philosophers have been probing these questions for a very long time. Some have even tried to bottle and sell it as religion.

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 01:44 PM

*daylia*...or course you are correct...there are many ways different people approach being 'here' and the idea of whether is a good place to be. I didn't list nearly all of the possibilities. I studied comparative religion at one time, and the "wheel of Samsara" was a fascinating topic. Belief in re-birth, while at the same time hoping to escape the cycle, is a major part of some belief systems.

Little Hawk... I used to buy and collect books about as many viewpoints as I could afford....I especially was curious about the more 'extreme' claims that I tended to disagree with...wondering how they expressed and defended unusual positions.
Partially because of spending 8-9 years dealing with cataracts and 'old' eyes, I seldom read long, detailed tomes any more...(I can focus on a computer screen easier than on a printed page)...but I am always interested in new ideas if I can read a short summary before attempting the longer format.

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 01:17 PM

Weelittledrummer, your last post was great, in its entirety.

"the older you get, the more you leasrn to accept that different peoples minds and bodies are different.

some people can do maths, some can play the guitar, some people can pray and sense another order of reality, some people can see ghosts, some men are fabulous lovers, .....


the complete man doesn't exist. do the best you can with what you've got."

Well said! I couldn't agree more.

Bill, pretty well said on your part too. I think people's natural interest areas pretty much determine what they put time into reading...and how they interpret what they read. I've got a few books that might interest you, but then again, they might not. I'm not sure.

Like Weelittledrummer I have long since come to the conclusion that people are all different, and that's perfectly okay. I don't mind that the religious are religious, I don't mind that the mystical are mystical, I don't mind that the pragmatic are pragmatic....I just mind it when any of them won't leave other people alone to be as they wish to be. In other words, my credo is "live and let live". I expect you would be in sympathy with that.

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: *daylia*
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 01:08 PM

and I can truly see why. It is comforting and calming and gives hope to those who suffer losses and/or don't feel fulfilled in THIS life....etc.

That's likely true for some people, Bill, but a lot of folks I know who believe in rebirth are neither comforted or calmed by the idea. Many (if not most) are just DYING -- quite literally -- to get off this earthly roller coaster, so to speak. To be free of the cycle of death and rebirth in this "vale of tears" and "graduate" to a life in the realm of spirit.

Most Buddhist teachings, for example, are directed to this end - not about how to celebrate or enjoy or enhance physical life, but how to get beyond, transcend, overcome it.

But whether or not we are restricted to one lifetime or free to have as many as we like, I don't think physicality is any sort of shackle to be wrenched off and tossed aside. Physical life is a privilege, a pleasure, an adventure, a learning experience without parallel. Those who think otherwise are missing the point of the whole exercise imo.   

Besides, according to most religious/spiritual traditions aren't we all supposed to have originated in the 'realms of spirit'? And if that's the case, what's the big deal about getting back there as fast as possible? We must have had plently of good reasons to choose to leave such a (purportedly) perfect existence. There must be many, many pleasures and benefits and experiences available 'here' that are not available 'there'.

Why else would we come? Would you opt to leave a beautiful comfortable home in say, Hawaii, in favour of struggling through some miserably difficult existence at the North Pole or in the middle of the Gobe Desert?

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 12:50 PM

weelittledrummer...your last posting was great! My apologies if my attempt at a little humour was mistaken for sarcasm. None intended, I assure you.

katbeenherebefore:-)

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 12:32 PM

*smile*

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 12:23 PM

"....and you know I'm an honorable man, if a stubborn one. "

Great sentence!

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 12:09 PM

Ebbie: yep, I know (a priori)...I was just prolonging the joke . The other side of that dust jacket is "The History of Greece" by J.B Bury...but it sure did get attention lying on my desk in the Philosophy dept.!


Little Hawk, there has been "... interesting experimentation being done in paranormal stuff by the scientific community," for many years....I know that! You don't think I read about it?

    Trouble is, they keep getting 'mixed results'....just enough statistical anomalies to keep them puzzling. The experiments that are designed by those who wish too hard for success seem to give better results than those designed by those with exceptionally rigid standards and careful double-blind tests.

    I'm sure someone like Wolfgang is more up on the details of recent successes and failures than a casual observer like me, but I scan for worthwhile news. I'd LOVE to find that certain esoteric abilities are possible.....if just ONE person could be found who can control and repeat paranormal abilities with indisputable accuracy, I'd be tickled pink!
But the 'news' is like the 100MPG carburetor ..."those who have a vested interest in this secret are hiding the truth from us!!"

   We have such logically conflicting 'explanations' that it's hard to even express....there are people who 'speak to departed ancestors' while at the same time, these ancestors are claimed by others to be 'coming back' and starting a new life. Definitions change, goal posts are moved, disclaimers are issued and standards are lowered. The need to believe in some form of "hereafter" or "reincarnation" is so strong for many that ANY apocryphal evidence or explanation will do.......and I can truly see why. It is comforting and calming and gives hope to those who suffer losses and/or don't feel fulfilled in THIS life....etc.

    ......*sigh*....I don't know what to say, except that if I 'go' before you do, and find myself 'aware' in some 'realm', I'll be sure to swoop down and buy you a virtual beer and write mea culpa in glowing letters on your bathroom mirror....and you know I'm an honorable man, if a stubborn one.

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 07:35 AM

I think we all have a spiritual side, perhaps some repress it. I only found mine about three years ago. Before that I would have backed up Clinton!

For me it was a slow kind of knowing, not a belief.

Pat

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 06:06 AM

I realise I'm not very profound. some of us are earthbound souls, without a spiritual aspect.

sometimes I think it must be nice to be like James Joyce - metampsyhcosis - and all that, a sea change into something rich and strange.

the older you get, the more you leasrn to accept that different peoples minds and bodies are different.

some people can do maths, some can play the guitar, some people can pray and sense another order of reality, some people can see ghosts, some men are fabulous lovers, .....


the complete man doesn't exist. do the best you can with what you've got.

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: John O'L
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 05:46 AM

Well I think this has just about been done to death (it will no doubt return sooner or later as a more spiritually evolved thread), and weelittledrummer gets my nod as having made the most profound comment. Can't remember how it went now...

Are yes, found it:
...its not us thats setting this agenda. if there is an agenda.

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 02:40 AM

Limpets flock to podunk pier in Booniesville...the pier was left to rot ages ago...it's Heaven to them! It has now become a protected wildlife refuge. No hammers allowed!)

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 02:33 AM

The more I think about it, the more the limpet seems a good option.

Nobody is in a rush to eat you. I've always liked the seaside. Sometimes the tide goes out and you get to see the sun.

A pretty straightforward gig. All you have to do is hold on to the pier. I could do that job.

Of course occasionally a guy comes along with a hammer and knocks you off. However, you could be a limpet on a neglected pier that nobody bothers with upkeep of.

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 01:52 AM

There's all kinds of interesting experimentation being done in paranormal stuff by the scientific community, Bill. You're just not reading the right books. Hell, even the military people in both the USA and Russia have been working with stuff that would freak you right out for the last few decades...most of which they do not tend to talk to people about very much.

I think you're clinging to an out-of-date view of things, that's what. You're sort of a traditionalist in that sense.

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 01:43 AM

I was thinking of a priory, you know.

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 10:28 PM

secret scientific experiments! Oh, wow! I can hardly wait!

Have they put electrodes on Little Hawk's head and found emanations in 5 dimensions? Has Amos been caught on video, out of his body? Has Hubble seen images of the horoscope on Mars? Did that beta model aura monitor finally prove that PhotoShop does access our brains directly?

Don't keep me in suspense!


(ummmm...Ebbie...A.P Riory is sort of a pseudonym. He was a founding memeber of the N.D.S.K mentioned above...His identity was created on a foot-treadle platen press in Wichita about 1969. I sold the press for $350 to finance my move to the DC area.)

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Janie
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 09:16 PM

Oohhhh Noooo! Not the rampant moose. George, get Rummie on the phone. We got a problem.

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 09:14 PM

You are so right. ;-) We're ready, by gum! We have mobilized our fighting forces with squirt guns (loaded with deadly LEMON JUICE to get in your eyes!), millions of hard-frozen snowballs (kept stockpiled in government freezers since last winter), rampant moose and beaver by the thousands, and MAPLE SYRUP BOMBS!!!!

Come on...we dare ya!

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Janie
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 09:08 PM

I'm gonna tell my president, George W. Shrub. Better watch out Canada. We're comin' in. The American Way is bein' threatened by some damn bird up there in Ontario.

Janie

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 09:06 PM

I don't believe in that danged Easter Bunny either, Janie! As for the Tooth Fairy, it's a bunch of baloney!

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Janie
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 09:01 PM

Whoa! Stop! Pull the chute! (OK, so I'm a little slow to react.)

But! back at 2:05 pm, Little Hawk said, and I quote...

I was one of the first kids in my age group, for instance, to decide that the "Santa Claus" story simply had to be mythological, because it didn't jibe at all well with a whole lot of known facts! I was a very logical and observant kid, and have remained so, I can assure you.

That is really twisted LH. And absolute proof that you were twisted from a very young age. Santa Claus a myth! Santa Claus is REAL!!!!

Rapaire, go get the swords please. There is an issue here worth fighting over ;o)

Janie

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 08:11 PM

The best place to find an honest man is in the mirror.

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 08:10 PM

Is A.P. Riory a pseudonym? Seems just a little too apt.

Subject: RE: So do we live to die and comeback ....?
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 06:45 PM

I discuss & debate with folks I respect! And, I, for one, am glad that you do, Bill! You are such a gentle-man about it and the respect is mutual. (I've noticed the absence of a certain member who always jumps in to tell us how silly we are to believe any of this. It is a welcome change not to have that disrupt a very interesting debate.)

Now, dare I say play the "it's a secret" card and tell you there are scientific experiments which are used in the monographs to "prove" some of what I know of metaphysics?**bg**

kat