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Lyr Add: The World Turned Upside Down (Rosselson)

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WORLD TURNED UPSIDE DOWN (DIGGERS)


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JesseW 16 Aug 06 - 01:02 AM
mack/misophist 16 Aug 06 - 01:38 AM
Malcolm Douglas 16 Aug 06 - 01:51 AM
GUEST 16 Aug 06 - 05:09 AM
The Borchester Echo 16 Aug 06 - 05:20 AM
Paul Burke 16 Aug 06 - 05:56 AM
The Borchester Echo 16 Aug 06 - 06:03 AM
GUEST,Gerry 16 Aug 06 - 11:32 PM
JohnB 16 Aug 06 - 11:52 PM
JesseW 17 Aug 06 - 12:35 AM
lamarca 17 Aug 06 - 07:12 PM
Joe Offer 22 Jan 17 - 03:09 AM
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE WORLD TURNED UPSIDE DOWN (Rosselson)
From: JesseW
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 01:02 AM

We do have this in the DT ( SongID=7972 - how should I link to this, anyway?), but there are some critical wording differences, so I wanted to list them here:

This is from Rise Up Singing (1992 edition, p. 187)

(Differences from current DT version in italic)

In 1649 to St George's Hill
A ragged band they called the Diggers
Came to show the people' s will
They defied the landlords, they defied the laws
They were the dispossessed reclaiming what was theirs

Chorus:
"We come in peace" they said "to dig and sow
We come to work the lands in common
and to make the waste land grow
This earth divided we will make whole
So it will can be a common treasury for all


The sin of property we do disdain
No one has any right to buy and sell the earth for private gain
By theft and murder they took the land
Now everywhere the walls spring rise up at their command.

They make the laws to chain us well
The clergy dazzle us with heaven or they damn us into hell
We will not worship the god they serve
The god of greed who feeds the rich while poor folk men starve

We work, we eat together, we need no swords
We will not bow to the masters or pay rent to the lords
Still we are free We are free men tho' though we are poor
You Diggers all, stand up for glory, stand up now!"

From the men of property, the orders came
They sent the hired men and troopers
to wipe out the Diggers' claim
Tear down their cottages, destroy their corn
They were dispersed, but still - Only the vision lingers on

"You poor take courage, you rich take care
The earth was made a common treasury for everyone to share
All things in common, all people one
We come in peace" - the order came to cut them down

The metadata is:
Copyright 1975 Leon Rosselson, c/o Fuse Records, 28 Park Chase, Wembley Park, Middlesex, England HA9 8EH. Used by permission. -- The Diggers were one of many radical movements (incl. the first Quakers) that sprang up during the time of Oliver Cromwell. They were one of the first groups anywhere to articulate a clearly socialist view of society. They actively resisted efforts of landowners to fence in and take over ownership of what were originally large tracts of land held in common by villages. On his "For the Good of the Nation" & his "That's Not the Way It's Got To Be" (w/Roy Bailey, FuseRecs). In SO! 24-4. On Dick Gaughan, "A Handful of Earth" & Billy Bragg "Betw the Wars".

A site with further details on the song is here:
http://www.seedstar.net/undeep/diggers.html

and more information on the people, and related songs:
http://www.diggers.org/english_diggers.htm


Digital Tradition Lyrics:

WORLD TURNED UPSIDE DOWN (DIGGERS)
(Leon Rosselson)

In 1649
To St George's Hill
A ragged band they called the Diggers
Came to show the people' s will
They defied the landlords
They defied the laws
They were the dispossessed
Reclaiming what was theirs

We come in peace, they said
To dig and sow
We come to work the land in common
And to make the waste land grow
This earth divided
We will make whole
So it can be
A common treasury for all.

The sin of property
We do disdain
No one has any right to buy and sell
The earth for private gain
By theft and murder
They took the land
Now everywhere the walls
Rise up at their command.

They make the laws
To chain us well
The clergy dazzle us with heaven
Or they damn us into hell
We will not worship
The God they serve
The God of greed who feeds the rich
While poor men starve

We work, we eat together
We need no swords
We will not bow to masters
Or pay rent to the lords
We are free men
Though we are poor
You Diggers all stand up for glory

Stand up now
From the men of property
The orders came
They sent the hired men and troopers
To wipe out the Diggers' claim
Tear down their cottages
Destroy their corn
They were dispersed -
Only the vision lingers on

You poor take courage
You rich take care
The earth was made a common treasury
For everyone to share
All things in common
All people one
We come in peace
The order came to cut them down

@protest @farm
Recorded by Dick Gaughan
filename[ DIGGRS
TUNE FILE: DIGGRS
CLICK TO PLAY
SOF


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: World Turned Upside Down
From: mack/misophist
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 01:38 AM

When Cornwallis surrendered to Washington at Yorktown, the English band is said to have played a song by this name; obviously not the same one. Can any one direct me to a midi or something of the older song?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: World Turned Upside Down (Diggers' Song)
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 01:51 AM

See previous threads for discussions on that topic; the song or tune has never been conclusively identified, so far as I know, and the debate continues. There are several candidates so far as I remember.

So far as the DT entry for Leon Rosselson's song is concerned, I think that the DT text was taken from Dick Gaughan's recording of the song, in which he changed some of Leon's words.

An internal link is made thus.

Type: <a href="/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=7972">WORLD TURNED UPSIDE DOWN (DIGGERS)</a>

When the message is submitted, this will produce:  WORLD TURNED UPSIDE DOWN
(DIGGERS)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: World Turned Upside Down (Diggers' Song)
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 05:09 AM

I understood that the song "When the King enjoys his own again" is also called "The World Turned Upside Down"


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: World Turned Upside Down (Diggers' Song)
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 05:20 AM

Pete Cooper combines World Turned Upside Down very effectively with the Playford tune Maiden Lane. Sample here.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: World Turned Upside Down (Diggers' So
From: Paul Burke
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 05:56 AM

I can't say I like the PC changes, which aren't the way Rosselson originally sang it, and are IMHO anachronsitic. And Rosselson originally sang "men", though he also sang "Vile Violation" so he's probably recanted since.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: World Turned Upside Down (Diggers' Song)
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 06:03 AM

LR has certainly recanted over Vile Violation which he says he hasn't sung for over 20 years. As he has also dropped the Biafra verse from Remembrance Day because he thinks nobody will remember the war. No. of course the LR original of WTUD isn't anything like how PC does it. LR is a guitarist, not a fiddlesinger.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: World Turned Upside Down (Diggers' Song)
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 11:32 PM

I note that the version given in this thread uses the "We come in peace" stanza as a chorus. I've never heard anyone in Australia sing it as a chorus, and when I tried to do it that way once at a song circle everybody looked at me all funny. Is it generally done as a chorus song in the US? the UK? elsewhere?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: World Turned Upside Down (Diggers' Song)
From: JohnB
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 11:52 PM

We always do that bit as a sort of repeat/reprise/chorus at the end of the song.
JohnB


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: World Turned Upside Down (Diggers' So
From: JesseW
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 12:35 AM

According to the recordings (except for the WMA one) on the site I linked to, no-body adds a chorus except RUS... It works alright, but I suppose it isn't really necessary.

As for the "PCizing" of the lyrics; there seem to be a number of subtle differences between versions; I'll listen to the ones from the site above and do a specific comparison, and post the results RSN...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: World Turned Upside Down (Diggers' Song)
From: lamarca
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 07:12 PM

Jesse, Rise Up Singing has a long track record of changing song lyrics to make them more "fun" for group singing. This includes converting verses into choruses, when there wasn't one originally, and changing words so that specific gender references are made gender neutral - the afore-mentioned PC cleanup of lyrics.

There has been a lot of back & forth discussion of RUS's place in the folk community (see this Mudcat thread for an example: http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=81112).

You should understand that words to songs, as printed in RUS, are NOT necessarily the copyrighted versions as written by the author, even if RUS credits that person. My main gripe with their credits is that they don't specifically say "Adapted from song by Leon Rosselson, Copyright 1975" when they have changed the author's original words to fit a group singing format.

It is this failure to acknowledge the changes the editors have made, combined with earnest, well-meaning people's belief that the version in RUS is somehow the "correct" version, that drives many in the singing community bonkers.

The DT version of Leon Rosselson's lyrics may or may not be what Rosselson copyrighted - the DT itself is full of song lyrics that are someone's best guess at transcribing a particular recorded version of a song, and has more than its share of mondegreens. However, I don't think it is a worthwhile effort to add the RUS version of every song in the DT where the two lyrics vary - one, RUS has already done a good job of making their version widely available in print, and two, both versions, at least of copyrighted songs where the author is known, still alive and able to be contacted about what they actually wrote, are equally likely to be wrong...


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE WORLD TURNED UPSIDE DOWN (Rosselson)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Jan 17 - 03:09 AM

Well, I'm now working for the editors of Rise Up Singing, researching all the songs in the book and offering corrections when needed. I suppose it's dangerous to claim to have a definitive version, but the lyrics below are from Bringing the News from Nowhere: Songs by Leon Rosselson, ©1992 by Leon Rosselson. So, I think this version should have some credibility. Mind you, Rosselson wrote the song in 1975, so these lyrics may have been updated somewhat.

THE WORLD TURNED UPSIDE DOWN (Part 2)
(Leon Rosselson)

In sixteen forty-nine, to St George's Hill,
A ragged band they called the Diggers came to show the people's will
They defied the landlords, they defied the laws,
They were the dispossessed reclaiming what was theirs

We come in peace, they said, to dig and sow,
We come to work the lands in common and to make the waste ground grow,
This earth divided, we will make whole
So it will be a common treasury for all.

The sin of property we do disdain,
No one has any right to buy and sell the earth for private gain,
By theft and murder, they took the land,
Now everywhere the walls spring up at their command.

They make the laws to chain us well,
The clergy dazzle us with heaven or they damn us into hell,
We will not worship the god they serve,
The god of greed who feeds the rich while poor folk starve.

We work, we eat together, we need no swords,
We will not bow to masters or pay rent to the lords,
Still we are free, though we are poor,
You Diggers all stand up for glory, stand up now.

From the men of property, the orders came
They sent the hired men and troopers to wipe out the Diggers' claim,
Tear down their cottages, destroy their corn,
They were dispersed - but still the vision lingers on.

You poor take courage, you rich take care,
This earth was made a common treasury for everyone to share,
All things in common, all people one,
We come in peace - the orders came to cut them down.



There were just a few differences between these lyrics and what we have in the Digital Tradition - I put the differences in italics. By the way, I found only two mistakes in the 2004 version of Rise Up Singing - RUS has "rise up at their command" in the 3rd verse (so does the DT), and RUS has "order came" in the very last line (so does the DT). Now, the 1988 edition of RUS has only one mistake - singular "order" in the last line - The 2004 RUS added a mistake in the third verse (maybe to match the Digital Tradition?)

So, I guess Jesse's questioning of the Digital Tradition lyrics in the first post, was correct.

One thing I don't like in Rise Up Singing, is that they mark the second verse as a chorus, and I don't really think most singers use that verse as a chorus. And again, the earliest edition of RUS doesn't have that verse marked as a chorus. In most ways, the later revisions to RUS were a great improvement - but not in this case.

-Joe Offer-


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