Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: growler
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 05:23 PM

I bet Nick regrets the Day he started a thread on Mudcat

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,Mifd
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 05:52 PM

...so it's happened to us all, I've stopped more than once in the middle of a song to say "I sing this unaccompanied", but what's wrong with other folk quietly requesting the rude one to desist? If it's a mannerless man it's best if a woman hushes him and if a woman (not so common - ie. the habit not the woman)- that way there's not so likely to be umbrage taken!

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Nick
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 08:01 PM

"I bet Nick regrets the Day he started a thread on Mudcat"

Not the first and won't be the last I'm sure. Anyway it's better than being ignored.

I recounted the story to the people at our local singaround last night to much the same reaction as I have had here but with one unforseen side effect. For the first verse of the song I did half the participants chimed in and suggested I sing it in C and then ...

This one may live with me for a while yet.

Anyway back up to Whitby tomorrow and I have my camera with me this time (smirk)

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: ossonflags
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 03:29 AM

Sorry to say Nick things like this are becoming the norm rather than the exception.

I find the old mehod of "shusshing" about as offensive.Nowt wrong with a few of the audiance having a word discreetly with the offenders, after all it is their session

Bettsy's method is one I thoroughly approve of and have actually used on one or two occasions !!!

Not altogether foolproof though. I did stop singing in a session once, as the noise levals of two of the "audiance" had reached the point were the putty was falling out the window frames. I asked the two participants politely if it was ok for me to carry on singing, or were they discussing something of national import.

I was promptly rounded on and was told I was being very rude for interupting a private conversation!

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Menno
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 05:21 AM

"Oh - one more thing. One of the more important aspects of public folk singing is audience participation, and this happens to be a good song for group singing. So if any of you feel like joining in with me on this song, I'd appreciate it if you would leave - right now." - Tom Lehrer, introduction to "The Irish Ballad".

Generally, I don't mind if people join in when I sing with guitar, but if I'm singing with my hand placed over the strings, that should be a hint to most people that no chords are wanted on this song thankyouverymuch.

My favorite party piece is "The Sick Note", which I *always* do a cappella. Many years ago, I was a-walking one morning in May, when I came on a pub called Johnny Fox's, (containing perhaps 5% Genuine Irish, the rest being tourists, but that's another story) where volunteers were asked to sing. Apparently, the guitarist there wot not of the term "A cappella", and started playing along with me. In several of his own keys of course. Now I was a guest there and didn't want to p*** off the locals, so I just soldiered on, said "thank you" and left the stage.

I reserve the right, on every tenth occurrence or so, to break out the Leatherman and cut the pillock's guitar strings.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 06:15 AM

Did anybody else have to look up 'solipsism' in a dictionary?

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: kendall
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 06:39 AM

There are those who don't know anything.
There are those who don't even suspect anything.

How do you like these people who come waltzing into a session, plant themselves just right so they are next, do their thing, and leave?

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: ossonflags
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 06:42 AM

No.

How's the castanets hanging Teddo?

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,banjoman9
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 06:46 AM

Hi - I could tell a few tales about the Elsinor in Whitby, but the worst was when I (A disabled singer/musician) went into a session there and headed for a chair which seemed vacant. I was immediatley told that I couldn;t sit there because it was "resrved in case a musician turned up" This despite my obvious disability. I left
On another occasion back in the sixties, I went to a Tom Paxton concert in Liverpool. When he started his set, the audience joined in the first song. Tom stopped and asked them not to join in (except on chorus) unless he asked them. Otherwise, he said he might as well go sit in the bar of the pub opposite and just telephone the doorman with the next song for the audience to sing.
After that, we enjoyed a great evening with Tom Paxton.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: JennyO
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 06:50 AM

Menno's quote of what Tom Lehrer said reminded me of what Paul Stookey (I think it was Paul) said many years ago in a Peter Paul and Mary concert, when introducing a song where he thought the audience was going to want to join in. I'll try and remember the words.

....and a little voice inside your head is going to say "sing -- sing -- SING!" - and you know, you're REALLY gonna wanna sing! ........PLEASE DON'T!!

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 07:00 AM

I think there may be a difference between a booked sit-down concert and a session or song-session. Nonetheless there is still a tendency to say "get over yourself". If the performer doesn't want an audience he doesn't need to sell tickets, he can always go back to his (previous) day job and play with himself in his bedroom where no doubt no-one will interfere.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: kendall
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 08:00 AM

"What we have here is a failure to communicate" (Strother Martin)

Personally, I like to have people join in, but I'd prefer they do so on the chorus only. There are so many versions of songs besides mine (the right one) that if someone insists on singing a different version from the one I'm offering, I'd prefer they don't muck it up.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 08:11 AM

Hiya Mick,
                         Long time no fondle. My castanets are full and fruity as usual.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Commander Crabbe
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 09:40 AM

Yo

Last night in the FILO Whitby, whilst singing a song that had been requested of me two musicians held a conversation all through the song. After I had finished , in a somewhat strained tone I thanked them very much and said next time one was singing I would return the compliment and talk all the way through their song for accompaniment. (I didn't by the way) I was informed by one of them that they were discussing how good I was! To which I replied did they have to do it all through the song.

Being a generally jovial and fairly tolerant person I was fairly taken aback at my reaction and even apologised later to some of the persons present about my outburst.

I must retain my calm in future after all it is their right to have a conversation whenever they like about whatever they like I suppose.

CC

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: fi_in_nz
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 10:03 AM

I saw something similar in Whitby on Sunday when an a capella duo asked the audience not to join in the chorus because they did it differently and the audience joined in (and part buggered up the song for them) anyway. I sing the Blue Cockade which is different from the White Cockade (mostly in terms of word order) and I nearly always remember to ask the audience not to sing the White Cockade, but whether I remember or not there is always someone who joins in (invariably singing the white cockade). Seems a folk audience just can't resist. Changing the key on a singer though is just plain boorish and I'm surprised the singer didn't object; to be honest it sounds as though these musicians were extracting the michael. F

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,HP
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 10:30 AM

MMmm. I am a singer principally, and a poor concertina player. If I am singing in a concert or a singers club then I appreciate, but don't necessarily expect, some respect. After all, it's my job to sing the song in such a way as to cause my audience to want to listen. But in a session I tend to assume that the idea is to do 'joining in' stuff. Most musicians let me jam in, bum notes and all, with tunes I can only half play (albeit I'm drowned out by eight melodians anyway!) so it's only fair for me to pick songs I'm not precious about and to sing them in a key that enables people to join in. The experience may not be my preferred one, and the musicians will propably not hear my favourite songs, but we all get at least some enjoyment for the sake of a bit of compromise.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 10:56 AM

"How do you like these people who come waltzing into a session, plant themselves just right so they are next, do their thing, and leave?"

oh, Kendall! YES! That ranks JUST behind those who believe they are obligated to do every 3rd song in is group of 10-12 singers!

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: terrier
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 12:20 PM

It's not just the singers that suffer from other peoples rudeness at sessions, how many times have I heard a less experienced player start a tune (that they've probably practiced at home a thousand times and can play perfectly well at their own speed), only to have it taken over by "better" players and speeded up until the original player is totaly lost and gives up!
Meybee these "better" players (I won't call them musicians) should remember that they also were at one time "beginners" and use their skills to encourage players with less experience.

T.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Bert
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 01:55 PM

Again at a Philadelphia FFS session, there was a group of old ladies who had obviosly only come for the refreshments and a good gossip.

Their noise was drowning out the song circle in the next room. When it came to my turn I put down the guitar, stood up and sang a very loud version on The Barley Mow which drowned out their inane chatter completely.   They quietened down after that.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 02:14 PM

I once played an instrumental version of "Silver Bell" on the autoharp...kinda pleased with myself for getting it 'pretty well', when a couple of guitar players in the group took it on themselves to demonstrate that it is supposed to modulate after a couple times thru...and naturally into keys my autoharp couldn't follow.
   I'm not sure I looked properly impressed and grateful for their help.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 02:57 PM

The reason people sing unaccompanied is because that is the way they like to sing. No one should a EVER join in unless invited by the person singing. That is good mannered. Wait for your own turn to play your instruments!!!!!

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 05:07 PM

If I can act as devil's advocate here, I was in the Black Horse in Whitby this afternoon and one of the participants sang "Shoals of Herring".

I have to say I was reminded immediately of this thread.

No way of knowing if it was the same person, but he did sing it an a most unusual key, (and a most unusual style) and then had to keep referring to a sheet of paper for the words.

After hearing this, I can, to a degree, empathise with the musicians referred to in Nick's first post.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 05:19 PM

We had a fellow once start singing "Red River Valley"...from a songsheet....and then he would segue directly into "My Bonnie Lies Over The Ocean"...from a second songsheet...then back to "Red River Valley" again...and so on!

He was singing acapella, and had mixed up the songsheets, but he apparently did not realize that he was singing 2 different songs altogether.

Impossible? Well, no, not if you know Harry. He's very, very old, and his mind tends to wander.

That was probably the most bizarre thing that ever happened at out songcircle, and it just about brought things to a screeching halt that night, I can tell you. ;-)

He wasn't being rude, though.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Nick
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 07:20 PM

Unlikely that it was the same guy as the person I originally referred to it knew the words perfectly without any prompting (and sang it very well without any help from anyone).

What's a strange key for Shoals of Herring? I sing it in G# personally. Does that mean I'm at risk (with justification - from the tone of your message, Murray) of being drowned out by some twat who thinks he knows 'best'?

I was in the Black Horse myself but left before any singing started.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 07:52 PM

If the expectation in that session is that familiar songs are fair game for accompanists, then G# is antisocial. Take it up to A or down to G. It's got such a limited range this can't possibly matter for any singer.

If you have a really individual take on the song which requires it to be unaccompanied by anyone else, that's different. But shutting out participants from what would ordinarily be a participatory art form needs compelling artistic reasons.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 08:07 PM

G# is no problem at all. Just put a capo on the first fret and play as if in G. And why should any key necessarily be a problem for vocals? It depends on the song and who is singing the melody, doesn't it?

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Nick
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 08:14 PM

The pub I sing and play in regularly doesn't have the problem. If people want to sing unaccompanied they can and do. And if people want to play in whatever key they like they can. I have a fiddle playing friend who often plays along with things I do and I will check keys before starting if I want him to join in; if I particularly want to sing in Bb he makes the choice of either simplifying what he plays and joining in or goes to the bar or whatever but with no bother either way.

It's because I'm used to playing in a place where people have a measure of respect and consideration and tolerance for each other (and it is a broad church from jigs and airs from the players to unaccompanied singing to a singer/songwriter who performs his own stuff - often in G#! - to two young lads who play Oasis and modern stuff to sea shanties) that the actions I came across in Whitby were alien, bizarre and came across as so crass.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 08:23 PM

G# is no problem at all. Just put a capo on the first fret and play as if in G.

We've been through this (and some other stuff in this thread) in another recent thread.

G# is a problem in many (most in the UK?) sessions. Sure it's fine for the guitar players. Other fretted instrument players might just have a capo with them. The fiddler for example might struggle and the poor G/D melodeon player for example is sunk.

There are sociable session keys. G and D are the best for the type of mix I usually encounter.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 08:32 PM

Try putting the capo on the first fret of a flute, getting a clarsach into eight sharps/four flats, or finding a diatonic moothie player who routinely has a G# out and ready.

It helps to understand how the various instruments in the room work. Sometimes you might be in a session entirely composed of guitarists or chromatic button accordion players, more often you won't be.

The kind of rudeness that ticks me off is the opposite - playing a simple traditional dance tune ina roomful of guitarists and finding that not a one of them even attempts an obvious three-chord accompaniment. Most of those tunes were never intended to be played as unaccompanied solos. How hard can it be for somebody to accompany The Mason's Apron or Greenwoodside if they can play stuff as harmonically complicated as Willie Nelson songs? It doesn't matter if you fluff a few bars, TRY.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 08:35 PM

G# is a problem for some instruments, such as my Anglo concertina, but one doesn't have to play along with every song.

I generally try to figure out how strong the singer is and what other instruments are chiming in before trying to do accompaniment. Sometimes the accompaniment can be helpful to a singer who does find it difficult to stay in key, assuming the instrument is playing in the key that the singer started in.

It's probably not rude but naive to expect a circle to pick up on a new chorus without repeating it part by part or passing out a songsheet. And even more important to do this with a song where the chorus is different from what people may be familiar with.

I do get impatient with people who always sing from songsheets, week after week, and sometimes with little clue what the melody is. A little homework prior to the song session, circle, can pay off. I like to see people eventually master a song they introduce.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 08:55 PM

"play with himself in his bedroom "


ooooooooooooo.......

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 09:05 PM

"We had a fellow once start singing "Red River Valley"..."

Now that reminds me of a night where there was a nice wooden lectern with a tiny light on it - one well lubricated performer mistook the light for a microphone, and kept leaning forward to sing into it...

That was a good night, wasn't it Rich-joy? :-0

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Carol
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 10:40 AM

If it's the 'right' type of song I often ask people to join in if they know it, but to be honest I mean join in the singing. I prefer people not to accompany me with instruments when I'm singing as then I'm bound by their timing and loose the chance to put my own pennyworth in!
I would also argue with then that a song is somehow improved by being accompanied.
As to keys I sing most of my songs in number 8 and some in number 45!!
Nick isn't part of the problem that some muscians come along to sessions only to play and play and not to give anyone else a chance of singing - that's why I much prefer sinarounds, sorry singarounds to sessions where you have to 'jump in'.
P.S. Got to Whitby for the day on Thursday, twisted Chris's arm 'cos it was ny birthday.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Willie-O
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 12:47 PM

What an outstanding bitchfest!

Really, almost enough said. If someone started a thread about what a great session they went to t'other night, it would be lucky to get three more posts.

Of course, you're all right, in your ways. Right, right, you're bloody well right. And you've got a bloody right to say it.

cheers
W-O

Not to say that I don't agree with Rich's original post.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Carol
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 02:34 PM

Well I enjoyed Padgett's session in the Tap and Spile on Thrsday afternoon, my only 'beef' would be the cigarette smoke.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 03:53 PM

Are we talking about singarounds? or singalongs? or jam sessions? or mini-performances? or what?

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Big Mick
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 03:56 PM

yes.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 04:24 PM

I've had several attempts at posting to this thread, without the posts actually landing. Just hope multiple posts don't arrive later.

The Endeavour was much better on the first Friday night! We had a really enjoyable session with Raggytash, Wombat, Ossonflags and Northerner, including my singing Hard Times in a different key on every verse. And Northerner lent me a shaky egg.....

Kitty

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: r.padgett
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 05:03 PM

Carol

You already know my feelings on smoking, can do nothing about it without prior agreement!

Certain people have said that they will stop smoking in singarounds when the law forces them to do so

I have had it in the ear from both for and against smoking

Nothing further until then I am afraid

Ray

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Carol
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 05:10 PM

Hi Ray
I did say that I enjoyed the session, what I didn't say was that smoking wouldn't stop me coming into the room, the funny thing was that half way through the afternoon most of the smokers seemed to disappear!!

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: kendall
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 07:05 PM

Bill, about the only thing that bugs me about Irish music is that habit of modulating the key.
There was a guy named Charlie Moore who took KEVIN BARRY and rebuilt it into an American civil war song. Now, everyone who sings his song copies his style of raising the pitch after each verse. It adds nothing to the song, and when I do Kevin Barry I absolutely refuse to do that. One guy said thats not how that song goes! Did he lead with his chin, or what?

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,MC Fat
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 06:16 AM

The 'problem' with smoke will not be an issue soon. Ray knows my views and as an organiser it's hard when friends who are smokers need to be accomodated as well as those who don't smoke.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Willie-O
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 09:58 AM

Another take on "how to deal with..."

I have a good mate who has been a repeat offender committing "session sins". (Well, not at sessions mostly. Hippie jams really, but developing more and more of a Celtic flavour over the years). He sings too loud, takes over the lead if you sing a song he knows, and plays aimless and annoying lead guitar on tunes or songs he doesn't know the chords too. And when he learns a song, he usually changes the melody to suit himself--dumbing it down generally--and then because he's an alpha male, others in our circle end up thinking that's how it goes, and I they all start doing it WRONG (as in, not the way I learned it). Also, he's a bodhran player (shudder) and a singer-songwriter (double shudder). I stopped going to most of his jam-parties years ago cause it all wore me out. The points of conflict have been a source of considerable friction with us over the years.

However, he's a great friend and over the years has become fairly decent on the bodhran, and writes good songs. So, what to do?

I started a band, and invited him to join! The quid pro quo is that I'm the leader, and the objective is to get paying gigs, which has worked fairly well. This allows me to put up my arms and yell "Stop!!!!" when sins occur, and ask him to please just sing on the chorus, or the tag line, not noodle on guitar, rein in the bodhran somewhat ("hold down the rhythm" is any drummer's job, not "show how many licks they can give a goatskin in three seconds") etc etc. This has given me great satisfaction in a Svengalian way and it happens in fairly good humour because we all understand that's the deal. In a social situation at his house, or a pub session, I don't pull rank the same way...but I can see the changes. Definitely past Musicianship 101 now.

He gets to sing his own songs his way and contributes greatly to the character of the band. Once or twice the rest of us practiced without him and though the sound was cleaner we found we missed that particular energy he brings. And in performance it is there too and is a big part of our sound, especially his "ARRRRRRRRing" pirate song.

Doesn't work for every situation, but maybe since the UK has passed so many laws regarding sessions, they could institute "session boot camp" for repeat offenders...

W-O

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: lamarca
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 07:27 PM

I've encountered two forms of session/songswap rudeness around here. The first is in a singing session that isn't specifically a round robin, guitar players who constantly "noodle" - no-one knows if they're about to start a song, and it makes it difficult as hell for an unaccompanied singer to find his/her own pitch and melody and launch into a song.

The second happened at a local monthly shanty sing. A group of singers who were obviously good friends sat at a couple adjoining tables. Whenever someone from "their" group led a song, they were attentive and joined in. Whenever someone else led a song, they would go back to loud conversation among themselves...

I'm an unaccompanied singer mainly because I'm "instrumentally challenged" - the only instrument I've ever been able to master is my voice! However, I'm fortunate to have a partner who'll work out wonderful accompaniments to my songs on his guitar. If he's not around and I want to do a song that I think would sound good with accompaniment, I'll ask if anyone can fake their way through it in something approximating A... But if I'm singing something with George where we've worked out a specific harmony or chord, and folks around us play or sing a different chord, it really throws me.

We've been guilty of this, too. Louis Killen did a house concert here a couple years ago, and started singing a song that we had learned from Coope, Boyes and Simpson. We tried to sing our harmonies, but they didn't work. At the break, Louis said to me "Listen to how the singer is doing the song FIRST - then join in if you can do it his way..." Sound advice, whether you're talking about accompaniment or harmony or even joining in on a chorus - listen first!

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 07:50 PM

Yep, Mary. I agree with Killen. As you know, I often phrase differently when I sing, and I try to let folks know to listen to where I am going and then jump in on the chorus. As a singer, I also prefer that folks join on the chorus only, for the most part.

BTW, one could never tell that you are an unaccompanied singer when you and George perform. It is a wonderful thing to hear the two of you.

Hope all is well.

Mick

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 07:55 PM

Y'know, not all singaroundss/sessions are performances. Politeness is a matter of obeying the generally accepted rules of each gathering. And if it's normal for others to join in, it's rude to insist on going it solo.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 08:07 PM

Perhaps it would be wise to differentiate between the two. A singaround is a place for each to perform in turn. When a singer TAKES THEIR TURN and sings, they are interpreting a song as they hear it. Personally I don't mind folks joining in on the choruses. I don't even mind them joining me on the verse, IF they have taken a moment to figure out HOW I am doing the song. To do otherwise is rude, IMO.

A session is inclusive by its nature, and usually it is instrumental. The rules depend on the setting.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: kendall
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 08:24 PM

It's not just guitar players who "noodle", there are banjo and flute players who do it also. It's like they are in an altered state and they don't even know they are being selfish and rude.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Peace
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 08:57 PM

Set out the 'rules' or expectations ahead of time. Things like, "Smoking will be Ok outside at breaks" and "Please do one song and let the next person have a turn" or "Please do not sing along unless invited to do so by the person singing". That's fair enuf, and it would get rid of lotsa problems before they start. Either that or give offenders a copy of "Everything I need to Know I learned in Kindergarten".

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Bert
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 12:06 PM

Politeness is a matter of obeying the generally accepted rules of each gathering...

You're right GUEST.

I used to go to one group where "please feel free to play along" was the rule. That's not the way I prefer things but that was the rule so it was fine. Just once in the evening I would try to sing something that nobody else knows. It wasn't breaking the rules but it sometimes worked.