Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Scrump
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 11:04 AM

From: melodeon king
Reading this thread, I think I'll take up darts.

Yes, could be a good way to deal with those unwanted accompanists.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 11:12 AM

I thought Darts were quite a good band. Some good harmonies anyway...

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Bert
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 01:35 AM

Sooz says, ...What makes me cringe are the singers who have to spend five minutes deciding what to sing even when it was clear when their turn was approaching!...

The answer to that is to give them five minutes and cut them off when their time is up.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Sooz
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:36 AM

Hmm.. not so easy if they are the club chairman or his girlfriend!

BTW Bert did those Bramley seeds grow?

I haven't had the chance to plant them yet, been moving around too much. As soon as I get settled in one place I'll give them a try they should still be viable for a few years yet.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,KT
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 04:32 AM

The Gong Show. That's what we need. Somebody who comes on and sounds a dinner gong when the performer's allotted time is up. Or somebody with a long pole with a hook on the end to haul the performer off.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,GrahamP
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 04:49 AM

Sooz says, '...What makes me cringe are the singers who have to spend five minutes deciding what to sing even when it was clear when their turn was approaching!...'

I quite agree - it may not be "the worst singaround/session rudeness ever" but it certainly pisses me off. What is perhaps surprising is that the culprits are often seasoned participants in what John J charmingly calls the 'Circle of Death'!

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 05:35 AM

I guess the moothie player Tattie Bogle mentioned was Iain Grant?

In which case I probably know Tattie Bogle.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: jojofolkagogo
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 08:44 AM

Well, I have not had time to read ALL of this thread, but if it has not been said, the most important factor is :



      UNACCOMPANIED MEANS   UNACCOMPANIED.


I sing unaccompanied, and if someone starts to play, I sit down.
End of story.

the ONLY time a musician should "help out" is if s/he is ACTUALLY ASKED TO DO SO

Jo-Jo

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Scrump
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 09:04 AM

Regarding the people who waste time deciding what to sing/play when it's their turn, I've only been guilty of that myself sometimes when I get asked to accompany others, so when it's my turn, I haven't had a chance to think what to do next myself. This especially tends to happen when there aren't many people there so I've already 'used up' the songs I'd planned to do that evening. But I probably only spend a few seconds deciding, and usually plump for one of my old stand-by songs.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,Strummer
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 09:26 AM

"I sing unaccompanied, and if someone starts to play, I sit down.
End of story." (Jo-Jo)

What a splendid idea! - I wish that (some) 'singers' would follow your example! I'd just have to start strumming along, and ........

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 09:29 AM

...we'd pour your beer into your guitar. As you said, a splendid idea.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Scrump
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 09:33 AM

If anyone poured beer into my guitar, I'd be most annoyed at such an antisocial act, given today's extortionate beer prices.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Partridge
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:28 PM

I used to go to a folk club where the organiser talked over the singers that were beginners. I stopped going. I wonder how many people she turned off. She certainly put me off, even now I find it really difficult to sing alone.

Pat x

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,folkraver
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 04:33 PM

why is it that nearly every festival i go to there is a singaround mafia everyone seems to know everyone else which for nervous singers can be very offputting.Or even worse the singaround is so formal that it becomes stilted.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 04:56 PM

Mafia? In my experience lots of singaround singers know each other and are old friends. How does that make them a Mafia?

Everyone of those people sang for the first time in front of other people, and we (mostly) remember that. And, in my experience, they are very welcoming of new talent. All the singaround organisers I know are very fair about giving each person a chance to sing, but in a large singaround it can take 2 hours or more to get round. Perhaps you are not waiting long enough.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Carol
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 03:48 AM

Well said there Les - I go to lots of singarounds, well I don't go to concerts and very rarely to guests at folk clubs and I think people in singarounds are very supportive of 'new' singers, nervous singers and quiet voices, plus it's the only place where the 'I wrote this last night brigade' can try out their songs!! As you can guess sometimes I think we are too supportive, yes I'll listen the the later type but will only applaud if the song was OK or better and boy have I heard some dire self-written songs over the years! Happy people don't seem to want to write them!!

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Red and White Rabbit
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 04:26 AM

folkraver

I understand what you mean about the folk maffia if you are nervous or shy - it took me a long time to summon up the courage to sing amongst all these people that seemed to know each other( I know now you cant shut me up) but if you want to sing the singarounds I go to are full of the most supportive people I have met both for singers and personally in other areas of my life and whats more if you keep going to the same spots its wonderful to see how nervous people improve as they over come their shyness.

Old Git once said to me the folk world is like a big family and he was right - you cant get on with everyone and all have different temperament,styles and ways of doing things but in the main they will support you.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 04:30 AM

"I sing unaccompanied, and if someone starts to play, I sit down.
End of story." (Jo-Jo)


The flip side of this - with some people the band would be striking up before the first chorus.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 06:43 AM

The best session I ever played in was at Beverley Festival many years ago. Many of the musicians were well-known names, many were guests at the festival, and the standard of playing was high but not too competitive - no one had anything to prove. People were playing unusual tunes as well as the old favourites, and others were picking up on them and playing interesting counter-melodies, rythms etc. The mood was laid back and mellow.

By the end of the afternoon the session was beginning to dwindle but still had "legs". Then a large fat bearded piano-accordion player walked in, announced in a loud voice that the session needed livening up a bit, and began blasting out tunes we'd already played, badly. Within minutes everyone else had packed up and left.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 04:42 AM

Ah Guest.... I know that well...

Once spent a fantastic afternoon with a group of people in a youth hostile. We'd tried to get into a pub session but the room was too small so we retired to the hostile for an afternoon of singing, joking, drinking, tea making and noodling. There was no real structure, people jumped in with a song they felt was appropriate to the conversation or if a previous song suggested it; everyone got a turn if they wanted, no-one chattered through singers; new songs were sung, old songs were stolen from others, old jokes were revived and new jokes made... It was going really well until the other lot who had been able to get into the session returned from the pub. Suddenly someone was organising us into strict order, telling us when we could sing and then talking through the singers. A 4hour session fell apart in about 15 minutes.

AND EVERY PERSON IN THAT ROOM WAS A MUDCATTER!

LTS

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 05:17 AM

Go on Liz - name names. Let us all know just who these scoundrel dirty dogs are.

i don't know.. they come on here - telling us the right words to the Wild Rover - pretending they know which way Ewan MacColl had his knob hanging - why Rambling Jack Elliot rubs porridge into his guitar, and all the time they go round sabotaging folk music, and acting like clever dicks.

we need less of that sort of thing.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 05:24 AM

I'll take the Fifth... some of those people still lurk!

LTS

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 01:34 PM

There are no right words to the Wild Rover, unless you count Das Wild Dachshund (Doug Hudson).

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 03 Sep 06 - 07:45 PM

Hi Jack, yes, you do know me, and yes, it was Iain Grant. See also washboard thread: I think I'll print off your instructions and buy a few more thimbles!
(apologies to the rest as this is off thread!)

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 01:46 AM

"A 4hour session fell apart in about 15 minutes."

Why did no one ask them to bugger off?

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 04:23 AM

Because that would have been even ruder....

Besides, it was time for the raffle...

LTS

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Bert
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:56 PM

"youth hostile" - LOL Squeaks.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,Old Git
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 01:58 PM

GUEST ...I wonder if that was the same accordion player who appeared at the beginning of this thread?

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,Tom
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 04:31 AM

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone just enjoyed the music, friendship and sharing of music and skills and songs.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: woodsie
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 05:58 AM

My mate Ray once farted during a singaround. I think it was a very disrespectful act, especially in the presence of Dave Kenningham, who was singing "Catch The Wind" at the time.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: JamesHenry
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 06:23 AM

Is Ray an old fart or a young fart?

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 07:14 AM

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone just enjoyed the music, friendship and sharing of music and skills and songs.

As an idea, yes, it may sound good but the only way I could see that being is if all events were anything and everything goes. I feel quite strongly that would cut down greatly on the vast choice that is available in oppertiunies to enjoy ones favourite areas of music.

My own favourites are at least mostly instrumental sessions and the joy is playing with others. Nights of that nature would be ruined if the had to accomodate lots of unaccompanied singing, etc.

What I think would be nicer is for everyone to accept there are different types of events (each of which varies), try to understand them and seek out (or start) ones best suited to themselves and get rid of aruguments which boil down to "well this is how I like it so this is how everything should be".

While I can see no excuse for what was reported in the first post, I think more reports of "session rudeness" stem from idividuals coming into established events and not really accepting or understanding what they are about than anything else.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 07:19 AM

Hi Nick I see your threads are nearly as popular as your singaround at Flaxton.
Thanks for making us all feel so welcome againg this year.
I was suprised at the level of tollerance afforded to the small tribe of kids we had with us.
We all thouroughly enjoyed ourselves and were very grateful to be allowed in for a play.
Cheers Tim

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 07:34 AM

Jon - You have made a VERY good point - Reinforcing the earlier comment about The Ground Rules being laid down for what ever session you are attending ! I cant imagine some one getting away with ,say , a nick drake song in the middle of a room full of Irish instrumentalists , or someone taking a set of Scottish pipes into the Middle Bar at Sidmouth !

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: pdcawley
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 09:30 AM

Re: Taking a while to think of your song.

I confess I did that at least once at the Wail. But I plead 'being wrapped up in the performance of the person before me'.

As for singaround format, I'm generally in favour of 'it goes round the room, one singer one song'. If you're desperate to get a song in early, then sit in front of the twig and piss off afterwards. Everyone will know you for a boor, but you obviously don't care, and you'd probably have spent the time waiting for your turn talking over everyone else so we're well rid of you.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 05:21 PM

WTF?

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,Katie
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 07:36 AM

I just can't believe how petty, childish and pedantic people get. Jeez - we're all (presumably) adults. Is it so difficult, even accepting that every other person is probably a schoolteacher? Don't answer that.......

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 08:05 AM

A long, long time ago, I started adding a few short (4 or 5 verse), fairly unusual songs to my repertoire. If I'm asked to sing and I'm not sure of a venue or the crowd it contains, I sing one of those to test the waters. The guitarists are usually still looking for the capo by the time I finish - and they know better than to try to accompany me if I'm asked to sing another!

Regards

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 08:53 AM

I'd like to make it clear that my WTF? was in response to a (presumably) commercial post that has been moderated out, not in response to the post now immediately before mine.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: John J
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 10:55 AM

At the end of the day it shouldn't be beyond the realms of our individual tolerance to have the good manners to keep quiet when a singer is performing.

I was at the Endeavour session mentioned at the start of this thread and I found the ambient noise level to be dreadful. What was much worse was the realisation that most (but not all) of the noise was coming from festival goers who really should know better.

I left the pub at 10pm having had quite enough.

John

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: r.padgett
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 02:08 PM

Getting appropriate venues for festivals can be a big problem as Folkies invade often only once a year!

yes I know all the advantages to places in terms of income generated and the multiplier effect but not all residents welcome folkies with open arms

We need to be on our best behaviour all the time and do not need to get in each others way ~ tolerance and fair play needs to be seen to be done as far as possible and singaround hosts be seen to be even handed ( probably said that ages ago) too many ego maybe!
Ray

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: John J
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 06:01 PM

I totally agree Ray.

Tolerance and consideration.

John

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,zulu
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 06:53 PM

Never been to a sing around or folk night that i can say i enjoyed everyone,but,greatful that these events take place.Without them many good,bad and indifferent performers would never get a chance.Of course there are some ego's going on.Of course the male singer guitarist will take ages to tune up before every song and tell naff jokes and stories.Of course there are the Trad folkies who look down on anyone not in or part of the scene.That is what makes them the events they are,coz you don't know what your gonna get.Long live these gatherings of unpredictable music and people.Without the mix we dont have something to measure our own ego's. LOL

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 11:09 AM

"Of course the male singer guitarist will take ages to tune up before every song and tell naff jokes and stories."
At least I can tune my guitar eventualy!
Is a pain when these clever bloody singers are of key all the way through innit?
Hi Carol sorry us singer songwriters come along and spoil singarounds I thought you loved me Sob!
Hope to hear you again soon.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Aoliandorian
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 07:16 PM

I see the problems in 90% of the session I attend as threefold.
First, as there are so many aids available these days, there is absolutely no excuse for not having instruments in tune.

Second, people who loudly take over a tune that someone else has started, usually speeding it up as they consider it is being played too slowly, may not have considered that the original player might be a beginner, perhaps playing in public for the first time, and may not be capable of playing faster. Instead of helping someone to get better, this might put them off for life.

Third, I might have spent weeks learning to play a piece where I have taken care to arrange the chord structure and phrasing in a particular way to enhance the tune or song in MY style only to have some clueless idiot who has never learned to LISTEN, promptly decide that they know better than I how it should be played or sung.
Yes, I am giving a performance, that is why I am there. Yes, there is a certain amount of ego involved as I try to do my best. However, I don't go on and on beyond my allocated time and, if I get to play again, I will make sure that I then play something everybody can join in with.
There is so much faffing about, nonchalant forgetting of words, playing out of tune and general lack of pride in performance of our traditional tunes and songs, it is no wonder any media treat us as a joke.
Don't get me wrong, I think there are a lot of wonderful performers out there in sessionland but the few bring the rest of us down.
I wonder how many contributors to this thread have now been infuriated by these comments and how many will do anything about it's content.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: eddie1
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 03:58 AM

Can think of one occasion when "folk" had been imposed on a group of non-folkies in a pub during a festival. It developed into a singaround at one end of the pub with a lot of background talking/shouting. One guy, facing me and away from the bulk of the people in the pub began a well-known song in a very quiet voice, totally drowned out by the background. I joined in with my voice which has been described as "like a mellifluous coalman". The result was that evryone, folkies and non-folkies alike joined in and it finished to the loudest applause of the evening. Did I do right?
Almost as soon as starting, I realised that I should have left the singer to his moment of fame. Everyone needs to start somewhere and the "success" I achieved was unimportant.
I have never done this again.

Eddie

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 10:25 AM

So Tattie Bogle is near to Edinburgh?
Gie's a clue aboot whaur therr are Sessions; in exile fur noo, no faur frae Embra.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 06:09 PM

There are loads of 'em! Quite a lot listed in the "Gig Guide", which you can pick up in most Edinburgh pubs/ theatres, etc. The Royal Oak in Infirmary Street has something on every night, as does Sandy Bell's in Forrest Row, then there's the Tass, the Waverley, the Antiquary, the Ensign Ewart for fairly Central Edinburgh, and the Harbour bar, Chain Pier and the Shore bar -all nearer the Forth - have less frequent sessions, and ? Musselburgh and Portobello.
Others further out may be only weekly or monthly, e.g.Penicuik, Haddington, Loanhead (do a search for their own folk club websites for details).
I usually go to the Grey Horse in Balerno (1st Tuesday of every month), Dean Tavern, Newtongrange (every Thursday - guest night first Thurs of month, otherwise a singaround), and Linlithgow, Black Bitch pub, 3rd Sunday of the month in the afternoon (from 2pm.)
Good hunting!

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: Nick
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 05:40 AM

At the opposite extreme I did come across an example of extreme tolerance last week.

Small singaround with perhaps 15 people in the front bar in a hotel. Someone singing a song when I heard a noise outside that suggested that perhaps a morris team had arrived. After a little bit of discussion with the landlady and chap who runs the singaround, in comes a chap pushing another guy in a wheelchair who was suffering from some form of mental disability BUT WAS ARMED WITH A FULL SIZE TAMBOURINE - a dangerous weapon at the best of times.

Guy sitting next to the visitor continues singing his acoustic song and thanks the visitor and his friend at the end, which struck me as either incredibly pc or unimaginably tolerant as the highlight of the piece had been the guy in the wheelchair smashing himself over the head with the tambourine in a random fashion which I have to say I would have found difficult.

Unfortunately they didn't stay for the rest of the evening.

Subject: RE: Worst singaround/session rudeness ever?
From: GUEST,catlin
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 07:07 AM

I just recently found out that I am/was one of those people, "It's done this way, you bozo!" I always knew I was opinionated about what I wanted the music to sound like, but never knew how bad I was until I was in an argument with a dear friend. Boy, did that smart! I have since resolved to keep my big yapper shut and to learn the fine art of letting everyone sing or play a piece his/her own way until the circle comes around to me. Then, I'll do what I want the way I want it done.

What bugs me the most is that, yeah, I knew something was wrong. I just wish all these dear friends would have told me sooner. Or, told me again or something....I guess if I had stopped to actually listen it would have helped. Oh, well...we all grow up in different ways at the weirdest times.