BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 04:58 PM

Funny how people can't seem to tell the difference between hunting and shooting. isn't it? Mention of one generates the pavlovian response to the other.

If I could arrange for you to killed by both a hunter and a shooter - we could see if you could determine any diference.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: terrier
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 08:37 PM

A few months ago, a fox killed a number of my laying hens then came back several days later and killed the rest of them. None were missing... just dead hens.
I wonder how many city people have seen the result of a Badger attack on a flock of sheep just after lambing? It's a sorry sight to see in the morning a field strewn with the carcasses of lambs with their intestines ripped out. Non missing...just dead.
I keep cats, not as pets, but as working animals. It's their natural instinct to hunt, Try telling them not to kill a rat or mole. Should I have been ashamed when I saw my she cat stalk a dove for some minutes before launching itself from it's vantage point on top of the hen run and taking the dove in mid flight. The cat has to eat. (yes, I do feed her)
On the day I moved into my home in the country, a Robin sang a welcome from a tree just opposite the side door. An hour later, the Robin lay dead by the doorstep and another, younger, fitter Robin sang the same song from the same tree.
I detest the use of Larson traps to ensnare Magpies, but I love to see the small garden birds flourish in the Summer. For all you Townies, Magpies are excellent hunters of small prey and they don't work alone! These wily birds will work in pairs to hunt down their next meal. Living outside a city, I am surrounded by the daily routine of survival. Overhead, buzzards and hawks compete with owls for their next meal. All Hunters.
On the other hand, i've tasted the difference between 'factory farmed meat' and meat sourced locally from a farmer who takes a pride in his livelihood. However you treat it, the animal in question has to die.
As a grower of vegetables, I want to deter garden pests from ruining my crop. After all, they're taking food from my mouth!
I still have vivid memories of working in an abattoir at Christmas and hearing the distressed sounds of thousands of caged birds ready for slaughter, or in the same abattoir witnessing the panic in a wagon load of pigs who had sensed their destiny. A number of them died before they got out of the wagon.
We, humans, are not naturally vegetarians, we are omnivores. That means we kill other animals to supliment our diet. Not all animals kill 'just for food'. We, humans, are animals.
The Goose I ate for Christmas dinner was 'taken from the sky' and not from a factory and the game pie I eat is exactly what it means.
The last fox shot by a local farmer may well have been, and probably was, the fox that killed my hens!
Sorry to go on for so long, but it's a big subject.
If you can't kill it, then don't eat it !!!

DISCUSS

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 03:29 AM

If you want to immerse yourself in that facet of nature its your affair. Most of us live urban lives, and the taxes we pay and the money we earn for the country susidises the countryside in a million ways.

I suspect its just an evasion - on your part. Look at the thread on serial bullies - theres plenty of killing and eating alive in our jungle. Watching the egos of people torn to pieces is a daily experience for most of us. In contrast, the people I've met working in slaughter houses don't seem too upset by it.

If you want to kill things, say so. theres no shame in it. Most of us have screwed up lives somewhere down the line. just stop wrapping it up in all this sophistry.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Gervase
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 04:38 AM

For me a life that is screwed up is one where someone can happily wander down the aisles of a supermarket selecting meat that he or she knows nothing about - how the animal was raised and how it was killed. That's an abrogation of responsibility (the Pontius Pilate approach to shopping if you like). It's also a tacit collusion in intensive farming and cruelty on an unimaginable scale. When you buy 'cheap' meat, think of the real price.
If you are going to eat meat, you shoud be prepared to acquaint yourself with its origins and accept them morally. The animal deserves at least that dignity.
Oh, and Shambles - shot, any day!

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 04:45 AM

There is nothing I would like more than to organise a weekend hunting trip to hunt bastards on a duck shoot or running around with lurchers. Anyone interested ?

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Ernest
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 06:23 AM

Is a butcher allowed to enjoy his job?

And how can someone who talks about "organizing a weekend trip to hunt bastards on a duck shoot or running around with lurchers" (which apparently means KILLING) etc. (there have been similar suggestions before in this thread) feel morally superior?

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 06:37 AM

I am just in after a walk around the nature reserve on the shores of Lough Neagh. I met a wealth of nature there, Foxes, selection of hedagerow birds and water fowl.

How anyone could stop aim and kill such beauty beats me. Think about it, you stand there and watch the habits of these beauties, doing no one any harm, how could you lift a gun and kill them ? Does it make you feel good ? what is it, are you a bigger or better man for it ?

I spoke to a friend of mine who has a small farm. I asked him does he have problems with foxes around his hens ? He said no, if you are going to keep fowl you should be prepared to secure their enclosure against the acts of nature.

If I met a guy taking aim at a bird I would put him on his back, no threat, a promise.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Ernest
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 06:55 AM

As has been said before, Divis: we all destroy more animal lives with our way of living than any hunter could ever do.

I am not a better man because I hunt, but neither are you with your (our) responsibility for destroying animal habitats.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 07:54 AM

I could not agree more Ernest, I watch day after day the areas around my own home where I grew up and see housing estates planted on fields I once walked. I wrote a letter about to the local press recently and got nowhere as expected.

On the point of aiming a gun at a bird, how does it feel to see something beautiful sitting in a brush and within a fraction of a second see it dead in the name of sport or pastime? What is it like to lift it's lifeless body up and see it's blood on your hands ?

I am not putting this question to you, I am asking everyone who shoots the beauty of nature. Inside small men or weak examples of men there is always a big man trying to get out, to me these include men who beat up women, make a woman's life hell, abuse children and kill animals in the name of sport or pleasure.

In my own life I have been anything but perfect, but I just hate all of the above I just listed.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 08:40 AM

If you can't kill it, then don't eat it !!!

That is fine. But perhaps equally:

If you can't eat it, then don't kill it.

Or if you are killing for your own pleasure - then be honest enough to say so?



Is a butcher allowed to enjoy his job?

Very few butchers now kill but dress and prepare the already dead animals. So they can enjoy their job and use their skills with as much pride as any other profession and not have to kill anything.

As indeed can slaughtermen (and slaughterwomen). Although from persoanl experience I been more than concerned at the attitudes and conduct shown at times by some of my colleagues. There does seem to be a trait in humans where just killing the animal quickly and gently as possible - does not seem to be enough.

There appears to be a need to also dominate and humilate. It is not pretty.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 09:17 AM

I accept the responsibility for all the nasty business of killing the stuff I eat. Just as I accept the tank full of petrol probably is not unconnected with whats going on in Iraq.

But as an ex sea angler, I don't think that's got bugger all to do with anything. My big push in life was to take a 50lb conger from where it was happily existing under one of the rocks in the 'snake pit' off pulpit rock near portland bill.

I never managed it, though I killed a lot of other big fish in my quest. They were probably better at being fishes than I was at being a man.

One or two places do conger steaks, but they're a bit boney I'm told. Apparently most of the congers caught end up as cat food.

Admit it. You like the hunt, the killing etc. I always did. And I refuse to get tearful about Christopher Robin's Piglet in my sausage roll.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: terrier
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 09:53 AM

If am given a brace of Pheasant to eat which have been killed (shot) for 'sport' should I not accept them because they were not born and bred in a factory 'farm' and ended their days on an abatoir hook. In accepting them am I not saying to the 'sport hunter' "it's OK to kill for sport". Srange business this.

In case I was misunderstood in my earlier posting, I do not own a gun nor any other weapon for that matter. I am one of those people who can eat but not kill. I leave that side of it to people such as Shambles and I thank them for it.

Truly the Pheasant is a beautiful bird.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Gervase
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 11:52 AM

Shambles, you still haven't answered the rodent question. Is Chez Shambles an open house for rats and mice? Or would a slow death from Rentokil-administered poison be preferable to a lead pellet or a terrier?

Some of the posts on this thread do raise all sorts of odd issues, however...

As I understand it, if one sheds a tear for the beast and gets absolutely no enjoyment from any part of its coming to the table, then it's OK to eat it? Or are there degrees of 'guilt' - the person that shoots the rabbit is more culpable than the person that says 'could you get me a rabbit', who is in turn more culpable than the cook, who shoulders more blame than the people who eat it?

Or should we only eat creatures that have been raised and killed out of our sight by lesser beings who in their debased state will take on the sin for us?

Surely the only truly honest way to go if you have issues with the death of animals is to be completely vegan. Otherwise, every time you so much as put milk in your tea you are complicit in the shooting in the head of day-old calves.

And where does our compassion end? Warm blooded or cold-blooded? Chordate or not? There are some flatworms which are things of beauty, yet liver fluke isn't very nice. Do flies have 'rights'. Who is to say that swatting a fly or a wasp is not more culpable than killing a rat? Where's Jeremy Bentham when you need him?

This thread could be about to get interesting, provided we can keep the 'if I see someone killing something I'll kill them' types away from their keyboards...

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha.
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 01:24 PM

I have seen the gormless bastards stuffing their bins with dead fowl, the hunters I know are as thick as they come, and ruthless, as I have said before on this Site, I have heard them boast of shooting any variety of bird.   Are you other killers on this Thread honest enough to admit you eat all you kill, or are your means of disposal also the bin?.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 02:13 PM

Sadly hunting is a national pastime, I know it is in the Dales. See the Great North Run claimed another victim, four last year. When is this murder run going to end.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 03:41 PM

Shambles, you still haven't answered the rodent question. Is Chez Shambles an open house for rats and mice? Or would a slow death from Rentokil-administered poison be preferable to a lead pellet or a terrier?

Not sure that our dog and cats are very effective at actually killing anything - but they do seem to act as enough of a deterrent to keep the house free from the obvious signs of rats and mice.

Just as we found that adequate fencing of our poultry was enough of a deterrent to avoid predators.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: GUEST,ibo
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 07:38 PM

People who just kill for fun are complete and utter bastards,and there are plenty of them out there in the country.They hide under the disguise of caring farmer,but you are evil bloodthirsty heathens and i hope you rot in hell.Keep your poultry in adequate modern coops and the fox will not harm them,spend some money you ignorant barbaric rabble.You disgust all true animal lovers,and lovers of a harmonic natural countryside.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Gervase
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 03:22 AM

Should I assume from the tenor of your post, GUEST,ibo, that you live in a town?

Whatever. If I were to fence all of my land with 'foxproof' fencing it would mean pulling out the old hedgerows that act as a haven for wildlife and which are several hundred years old (and which, belatedly, are being protected). Do you think I should do this to stop the foxes killing the lambs? (and, on a philosophical note, I would assume that a heathen would not have the concept of hell, so your imprecation is a little assumptive).

I have to say, if the spelling, punctuation and syntax is any guide, the "ignorant, barbaric rabble" seems to be made up of those opposed to hunting, or shooting, or eating meat, or indeed daring to live anywhere that doesn't have a McDonalds and street lighting!

And, Ard Macha, I completely agree - anyone that behaves like that is a disgrace and should be reported to the police and other relevant authorities, and should not be licensed to use firearms. That sort of behaviour is sickening and only serves to tarnish everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 03:39 AM

Sorry Gervase to disagree, living close to the countryside I come into contact with many wildfowlers [killers] and it is sad to say that they glory in their deeds, how can anyone look with pride at a dead bird full of shotgun pellets.
Living a long time among my fellow humans I despair at their cruelty, is it any wonder that I prefer my dog when compared to some of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 04:54 AM

Alright Gervase you have convinced me.

In order to free our house of all possible vermin - I will open the front door and let loose a pack of dogs. Mrs Shambles and I will then don hunting pinks, saddle up our trusty hunters, invite the local worthies to do the same and will charge around from room to room leaping the furniture and have jolly good time.

If any living thing should survive this - we will then don green wellies and blast every room with double-barreled shotguns, along with our double-barreled neighbours.

It would be nice to think that the poster known as 'Gervase' is a complete 'wind-up'. Sadly I fear that he is the real thing.

Probably the worst diservice the 'Cuntryside Are Liars' ever attempted was to split us neatly into 'townies' and 'us that know what the really countyside needs even through we only visit every other weekend'. [Sorry if the spelling isn't quite right - it was the way many of its supporter seemed to pronouce it.]

Thankfully this attempt was seen for the sham it always was - designed only to enable small groups of selfish people to carry on doing exactly as they wished and to be free from the same judgement that they had always felt they had the right to impose on others.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Gervase
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 06:19 AM

Sorry Shambles, not a wind-up. A living, breathing person who posts here under his own name (were you really called 'Shambles' by your parents? If so, you have my sympathy). Anyway, I'm afraid you lost me there somewhere round the back of the sofa. I was following your arguments until you started jumping around the house; what exactly is the point you're trying to make?

Aside from that, it would have been nice to have had some proper argument about the ethics of shooting and food production in general, but that seems as unlikely as ever, reading the threads here.

I can sympathise with Ard Macha because he seems to be speaking from experience (you should take down the registration numbers of any vehicles belonging to people who do that and report them to the police or the RSPCA - as I said, that sort of behaviour is appalling), but for the rest, it seems that the arguments are based on a level of ignorance, blind prejudice and kneejerk anthropomorphism that one would expect to see in young teenagers.

So, how about some sensible debate on the issue? Please. Or are we always going to resort to 'yah-boo' name calling and personal attacks? And does the abuse actually make the abuser feel better? To use terms like 'inbred idiot', 'twisted', 'moronic', and 'liar' is hardly going to make an opponent sit up and take stock and think: 'Gosh, this person really does have the answers. I can see the error of my ways and will become a vegan forthwith!'. Or is the abuse in some way cathartic? Or, dare I say it, 'fun' - a little thrill at an anonymous insult delivered to someone you've never met. A bit like sticking out your tongue behind the teacher's back in ther maturity stakes, perhaps?

So, to get back to the issue in hand, could someone please tell me why it is wrong to shoot animals for food in the wild when we electrocute them, slit their throats or shoot them in slaughterhouses? And why it is wrong to shoot pests but not to poison them?

And, when replying, if your first temptation is to unleash a torrent of abuse, just pause for a second, take a deep breath and do something more constructive (like clicking on the Hunger Site or something). You're not going to change anyone's mind with vitriol.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: ard mhacha
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 07:00 AM

Shambles I seen Gervase on TV doing a re-hab job on his country mansioN.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: GUEST,ibo
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 08:23 AM

I actually live in the countryside and drink with yokels who brag about their kills.They definately dont kill for food,and believe me a lot of the fat gormless gits could do with skipping a few meals.Yes, i eat meat,but i prefer mine prepared by the local butchers and not from these mindless yobs who kill for the pleasure of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 08:53 AM

Guest ibo, Would you rather live free as a wild animal, or couped up in a pen until slaughtered? Either way you still eat meat and are a bigoted hypocrite.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Gervase
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 09:17 AM

Perhaps the butcher has a magic fridge which fills with prime cuts of meat that never were part of a living animal - or if they were, they were from animals that queued up meekly for humane rendering at the hands of gentle nuns armed with nothing nastier than bowls of hemlock. And I take it your butcher would never dream of selling pheasant or venison either.

To be honest, though, I'm with you on mindless yobs who kill for the pleasure of it. People who do that are yobs and have no place in a civilised society.
If, however, they kill to put food on the table or to sell to the butcher or to control pests, then fair play, that's part of life. You may not like it - just as some people don't like morris dancers, anglers or folk who play cricket - but that's your problem, not theirs.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: GUEST,ibo
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 09:18 AM

Do you kill for fun mr mariner,are you a dipstick?

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: GUEST,ibo
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 09:23 AM

Thanks Gervase,my sentiments exactly,you are obviously a decent bloke,unlike those blood sucking vermin who appear to dislike me.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 10:21 AM

Already stated i'm a hunter. At least if i'm going to eat animals I have no hesitation on being able to kill one; unlike people like you who believe that they are so "superior" just because they unwrap meat from a butcher.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: redsnapper
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 11:54 AM

I love shooting wild animals....



...but only with my cameras

RS

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: GUEST,ibo
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 04:06 PM

Cameras are ideal for shooting animals,i agree totally.Perhaps you may even get a photo of those evil gits who celebrate killing with the family,fancy horses and a bottle of best vintage bubbly.CHEERS,ENJOY.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Grab
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 11:30 AM

Think about it, you stand there and watch the habits of these beauties, doing no one any harm, how could you lift a gun and kill them?

Or all those clucking chickens and swimming fish and skipping lambs and calves? How could you lift a ... knife and fork and eat big fat slices of their flesh every day of the week, Divis?

Ibo, you're right - killing just for killing's sake is disgusting. But killing what you're going to eat is just fine by me, and I don't see a problem in taking pleasure in doing that job well. Nor killing of vermin which would otherwise damage property and spread disease. Nor culling for the purpose of keeping the main population healthier.

and to be free from the same judgement that they had always felt they had the right to impose on others.

If you choose not to kill anything, including your chickens, then that's fine, Shambles. But other people's choice to kill things (even if it's for a lousy reason, like "just because they can") is not imposing on you in any way whatsoever, except in the obvious way that if they kill too many then they'll eventually deprive the whole world of them.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 03:31 PM

If you choose not to kill anything, including your chickens, then that's fine, Shambles. But other people's choice to kill things (even if it's for a lousy reason, like "just because they can") is not imposing on you in any way whatsoever, except in the obvious way that if they kill too many then they'll eventually deprive the whole world of them.

Graham - I have watched with some ammusment as the class in our country that have been traditionally associated with hunting and shooting and who have always felt they have a God-given right to judge interfere, prevent and comment on every aspect of what others choose do for their pleasure - have nearly exploded with indignation at the thought of the great-unwashed having the audacity to judge, interfere, prevent and comment on their pleasures..... How dare they?

I am reminded of Dad's Army's Corporal Jones phrase: - 'They don't like it up-em sah! Indeed they don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: GUEST,Gervase
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 04:34 PM

(sans biscuit using the memsahib's laptop)
Sorry Shambles,you've done it again. I confess - I'm lost. What in the name of the pope's underpants prompts the death-defying leap from killing chickens to the class struggle?
As a quondam marxist, I have to admire your chutzpah, but even I'm a little bit puzzled.
Do tell...
(And it's odd that only in England (and not Wales or Scotland or Italy or FRance or...) is the hunting and shooting issue so polarised along class lines. It really is terribly sad and horribly antiquated.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Paul Burke
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 03:55 AM

Obvious, Gervaise. Bear and bull baiting and dog fighting were banned in the first third of the nineteenth century, they were the violent fun of the lower orders. Football (Ashbourne style) was for rough'yeds and banned almost everywhere. Cockfighting and fistfighting crossed class boundaries, but the powerful and respectable were against gambling. Fox hunting and shooting were the pastimes of the 'Arry Stockrats, and remained untouched. Cockfighting and fistfighting crossed class boundaries, but the powerful and respectable were against gambling. The game laws- for offences against which thousands of ordinary folks were fined and imprisoned, hundreds hanged or transported- were enacted to protect their sport. Class definitely is right there at the basis of both sides of the bloodsports debate.

How did you get from Marxism to the Countryside Alliance? I know it's said that he who isn't a radical when young lacks soul, he who isn't a conservative when old lacks brain, but that just means I'm still young.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 04:36 AM

(And it's odd that only in England (and not Wales or Scotland or Italy or FRance or...) is the hunting and shooting issue so polarised along class lines. It really is terribly sad and horribly antiquated.

Some may argue (many Scotish persons in particular) that in fact most of Scotland has been owned by this class and set aside for their pusuits? And that it still is.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 04:56 AM

Of course this is one of the myriad debates that, for us English, is inevitably class based. I remember a thread about hunting a couple of years ago and the poor old Yanks were breathless at how we neatly divided along class lines on this one. Apparently hunting is a blue collar thing over there.

The hunting fraternity assured me that THEIR local hunt was packed out with miners, factory workers, unemployed, single parents, etc. Must be like a cross between the TUC and the green room on Coronation street, where RADA types concentrate on the getting the right timbre into enunciating 'ey oop!, 'ecky thump!, and willie 'eckerslke!

I can't really understand why we haven't banned hunting completely. As soon as the tories get in, despite all this crap about Ian Duncan Smith loving us us all, and caring terribly about us, and all his best friends manning call centres (the mind really works overtime on that one? - maybe the I 'm wearing little white panties one!) - as soon as they're in they're going to start shafting us.

So I think we should kick them up the arse with this one, and bloody hard! A pre-emptive strike - they've obviously got weapons of mass destruction in there somewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 07:09 AM

Take a look at the websites for the Deer Commission/Forestry Commission/National Heritage Site/Gamekeepers Association and read about what training and level of expertise that must be attained before you can qualify to shoot large game in the UK. The sites will also give information on the rather stringent rules that must be followed with regard to the carcass of the animal once shot.

So restrictive is shooting in the UK that the species of deer that is represents our largest game animal (Red Deer) is on the verge of being classified as vermin because of the damage it is doing to the countryside - all because populations are running out of control. Two to three mile sections of the main roads in the Highlands and north-east of Scotland have recently been closed off by the Police for short periods to allow marksmen to cull deer close to roads in locations where deer have caused accidents in crossing the roads.

Fishing - only ever fished for Brown Trout, Sea Trout or Salmon - anything caught was eaten. I have never seen the attraction in coarse fishing, sitting by a body of water watching a float, waiting for it to bob up and down, then take the fish, that you can't eat, and put it in a keep-net only to be released at the end of the day.

Shooting - Elg, Deer and Wild Boar - again anything shot is eaten. I do not believe in shooting trophies. The training for this was very comprehensive, where I hunt everybody has to qualify each year before the start of the hunting season. You do not aim at anything unless you are certain of a safe, clear shot (i.e. clear sighting of the animal with a solid back-drop behind it), you do not fire unless you are certain of killing it cleanly. The place we hunt is a wild-life centre, the owner and the locals normally hunt it but allow two "Guest" hunting parties in each season. The landowner cares for the place through-out the year, all food served to the people that visit the centre comes from his land (grown or shot). On arrival the landowner briefs the hunters precisely on what animals they may shoot (Mature Bull/Buck; Juveniles (up to 2 year olds); Cows/Does; Calves) all other animals are left alone. He husbands the land and has detailed knowledge of what is ranging on it, he ensures the survival of the animals in winter by growing forage for them and by putting out salt licks for them in summer, this provides sustainability of his business. Whereas before when he ran his land as a farm it employed him and members of his family, now run as a wild-life centre it employs him, members of his family and about ten other employees. Having seen the place it seems a terrific way to make a living.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 08:54 AM

Only you have to kill animals, mix with the upper classes, live a long way from a folk club.....

If it were any more perfect, I'd get the job applicants certified.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Gervase
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 09:22 AM

A bit chippy there, weelittledrummer? No exactly the milkman of human kindness today - maybe it's time to think again about that vegan diet!
To be honest I don't mind mixing with anyone, and some of the best singing I've heard has been in the pub after a day's hunting.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 10:45 AM

yeh yeh yeh, and your whipper in lives in a council house.......where of a winters night you often share a dish of tripe with the homely couple, sat by a coal fire and listening to tales of his favourite dogs, with the fire twinkling on his wise old face.

Gervase, I'd rather drink soya milk with me ginseng biscuits.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Gervase
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 12:00 PM

*snort* ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Grab
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 12:18 PM

So Shambles, your justification for telling other people what to do is "well they did the same to our class for years"? If I'm reminded of anything with that statement, it's the "Bold gendarmes".

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 12:23 PM

So Shambles, your justification for telling other people what to do is "well they did the same to our class for years"? If I'm reminded of anything with that statement, it's the "Bold gendarmes".

Not sure that I was justifying anything.

Just offering an explaination for why those loud bellows of indignation were not taken very seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 12:40 PM

yes indeed the louder the bellows, the happier we are. and we think David Cameron's a wanker.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Gervase
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 05:24 PM

Sorry, who was it who was bellowing indignantly? I must've had my head in a chip wrapper at the time, 'cos I missed it.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 06:21 PM

search me guv. will me lordship be requiring anal cleansing after his exertions in the toilet?

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 04:54 AM

Sorry, who was it who was bellowing indignantly? I must've had my head in a chip wrapper at the time, 'cos I missed it.

Were were you in the chippie all the time The Cuntryside Are Liars were marching and appearing all over our TV screens - inciting everyone with any greviance (real or imagined) about rural life to follow them.

And all because the democratic will of the people (i.e. the law) was threatening to spoil their fun by stopping them chasing terrified foxes around the countryside before eventually tearing them apart with packs of dogs.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Gervase
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 08:21 AM

Ah, the same 'democratic will of the people' that got us into the Iraq War Mk2 and gave us the three-in-a-bar fiasco? Come to think of it, I do remember the referendum on all of those.
So I suppsoe that's all OK then.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 09:11 AM

If the people actually got what they wanted, then fox hunting may well have been banned, but laywer hunting would be more popular than football, and we wouldn't have overcrowded prisions, as the mob would have lynched a fair number of people....

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting (hunting) and jobs in the UK
From: Leadfingers
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 09:16 AM

100 this time ?